" Okay, so, let me just make sure I understand you. You want me, to not buy and enjoy Diablo 3, because Activision treated a couple of game developer heads poorly? "
I would like to redirect you all to the article I referenced in my OP, which has Kotick deferring to Blizzard sales numbers to justify why the console numbers have slumped.
The article is justification enough for people to continue to cease supporting the company financially, this article points to the fact that Kotick himself has to find reasons why the company is under performing.
I don't believe this is an issue regarding Capitalism, I think it is an issue of Justice, and before you say that "all the other companies/people are doing it why shouldn't Activision-Blizzard". I will say to that person that the situation ends with them.
The only reason why they are getting away with it, is because people allow them to.
Listen, I'm gonna keep buying Activision and Blizzards games as long as they are quality products, products stink, then I wont buy it. If the workers feel like they are being treated poorly then maybe they should quit?
Blizzard pretty much has full control over their projects, so I'll keep playing their titles.
As for Activision, well, tell me if they release an interesting title. OTHER than GoldenEye, sorry, didn't play the original, so the nostalgia factor's not there.
" Listen, I'm gonna keep buying Activision and Blizzards games as long as they are quality products, products stink, then I wont buy it. If the workers feel like they are being treated poorly then maybe they should quit? "
I like your point, but, say if you worked there and finished a project which was incredibly successful and was promised a significant bonus after its completion.
Then all of a sudden two bosses get fired and then the company changes their mind and say that you will only get the bonus when you complete the next project which might take several years to complete.
Say you would like to sue them for the bonus your rightfully deserve, but you were living from paycheck to paycheck (see a pattern here?) so you cannot afford the several thousands (you read that right) of dollars required in legal fees. So now your decision is to literally become a slave to this company for at least a year (or more) or quit without the bonus (this is where the slave part comes in), what do you do if you have a family to feed and no real promise of other gainful employment?
I would say that if this was an effective way to do business in any industry, then I fear that the future for not only game developers, but other industries, is grim one to be sure.
As long as Activision puts out quality products, I'll buy them. Bobby Kotick is a dick, but it doesn't stop me from buying games on my own will. He's also a businessman, and his priority is to make money, regardless of ethics or public imaging.
" I really don't give a shit about that kind of stuff; I care about the product. I don't see it as spending money on the developers or publishers, most of the time, but spending money so I can actually play the game I'll enjoy. So, no. And we really never know what's going on behind the curtains, so we can't be sure that Bobby Kotick's employees are getting mistreated or whatever. "
@misplacedcircus: Yeah, but no one is forcing them to sue Activision either. If I were one of the former IW guys, I'd just leave the whole matter alone and focus on our next big project with our new company. But if they want to sue Activision, then fine by me, it's not my business. Who knows, they might actually win too.
" I really don't give a shit about that kind of stuff; I care about the product. I don't see it as spending money on the developers or publishers, most of the time, but spending money so I can actually play the game I'll enjoy. So, no. And we really never know what's going on behind the curtains, so we can't be sure that Bobby Kotick's employees are getting mistreated or whatever. "
It's not like I don't care at all about the IW situation, but none of those guys are calling for us to boycott products, so why are YOU?
If they're being treated unfairly, they should get out, and find a better job. If Respawn makes the Modern Warfare killer, I would be thrilled (Although I haven't played a CoD past 2) But hey, they don't need me to stop buying great games from Blizz to do that.
Hate to say it, but calling gamers to take action against any manipulation in the industry is a lost cause. Bobby Kotick is absolutely correct because the gaming community as a whole really just doesn't care. Gamers even love to support companies shamelessly overpricing their products; just look at the sales of the MW2 Stimulus Package: Over 2 mil on Xbox alone.
I think the flood of negative responses in this thread speak for themselves: the gaming community doesn't care about what happens in the industry, we just want to sit on our asses and play games.
@clarke0: Don't you think you're being overdramatic here?
I buy products that are priced correctly and that I want, and don't buy ones that are not. There are DLC I buy, and ones I don't.
Don't act like this is some Virgina bus boycott, to end Segregation. The OP wants us to stop buying games so some IW employees can get paid. If they're getting screwed, they should take Actiblizzard to court, or leave the company, not organize a boycott. Which they are not.
Think about this. All that hardware you buy? The Wii? 360, and PS3? You know where it's all made? CHINA. A country with HUGE Human rights violations. You want to boycott something, why don't you punish companies for doing business with a regime that executes people for stepping out of line. Who's cheap labor is based on horrible working and living conditions, poluted drinking water, and just generally poor standards of life.
Instead of trying to punish a company for withholding bonuses for a few programmers.
@SamDrugbringer: It's true that the idea that he came up with is ridiculous, and I agree that this effort would do little to hurt Bobby Kotick and the people involved with firing Infinity Ward leads. A boycott of their games would probably just hurt the devs like many other posters have already said.
I essentially just posted to reaffirm the OP that there is no way that any petition or boycott is going to cause waves in the gaming industry. Sure, in a perfect world all developers would get paid fairly for their hard work, the gaming community wouldn't vouch to pay for overpriced DLC, and Diablo 3 would lose all it's color over an Internet petition. But none of these things are going to happen, because the gaming community doesn't give enough of a shit.
Although it was probably a pointless post to make considering every other post here has probably already shattered his hopes and dreams. (PS: I'm writing this dramatic on purpose :) )
" I really don't give a shit about that kind of stuff; I care about the product. I don't see it as spending money on the developers or publishers, most of the time, but spending money so I can actually play the game I'll enjoy. So, no. And we really never know what's going on behind the curtains, so we can't be sure that Bobby Kotick's employees are getting mistreated or whatever. "
" Hate to say it, but calling gamers to take action against any manipulation in the industry is a lost cause. Bobby Kotick is absolutely correct because the gaming community as a whole really just doesn't care. Gamers even love to support companies shamelessly overpricing their products; just look at the sales of the MW2 Stimulus Package: Over 2 mil on Xbox alone. I think the flood of negative responses in this thread speak for themselves: the gaming community doesn't care about what happens in the industry, we just want to sit on our asses and play games. "
I cannot speak for everyone else, but I can say that I am refusing to buy and play Activision-Blizzard products now and into the future. This thread was devised as an informational and not some 'put your signature here' thing, and based on some of the negative responses it makes sense that some people that would support a cause - which is already being partially reinforced by people not buying Activision products - would not comment on directly. I am also not asking for that.
I am simply encouraging people to not purchase/play Blizzard products, due to the fundamental connection they have with the pockets of Activision.
Personally speaking, I know people who are tired of seeing a new trend in business in which they are openly doing shady stuff and expecting to get away with it due to the financial power they possess.
I want people to vote with their wallets (and nothing more). It has been proven to be effective in altering the direction of a business' financial agenda, let alone an industry's.
i'm good, i do kind of not want to get activion games. i just think after the next cod modern warfare 3 coming out i don't think it will be very good since a lot of employees left. they also like to milk their games, guitar hero. blizzard make good games, i use to play world of warcraft. i stopped playing it as it got boring.
" @SamDrugbringer: It's true that the idea that he came up with is ridiculous, and I agree that this effort would do little to hurt Bobby Kotick and the people involved with firing Infinity Ward leads. A boycott of their games would probably just hurt the devs like many other posters have already said. I essentially just posted to reaffirm the OP that there is no way that any petition or boycott is going to cause waves in the gaming industry. Sure, in a perfect world all developers would get paid fairly for their hard work, the gaming community wouldn't vouch to pay for overpriced DLC, and Diablo 3 would lose all it's color over an Internet petition. But none of these things are going to happen, because the gaming community doesn't give enough of a shit. Although it was probably a pointless post to make considering every other post here has probably already shattered his hopes and dreams. (PS: I'm writing this dramatic on purpose :) ) "
I respect your opinion, however, I think that you do not seem to recognize the power which I believe that I possess as a consumer, and the very fact that people can reach a great deal of others through the internet in very little time. Please consider the realities of what one person can do in very little time, with little/no money.
@SamDrugbringer
said:
" @clarke0: Don't you think you're being overdramatic here? I buy products that are priced correctly and that I want, and don't buy ones that are not. There are DLC I buy, and ones I don't. Don't act like this is some Virgina bus boycott, to end Segregation. The OP wants us to stop buying games so some IW employees can get paid. If they're getting screwed, they should take Actiblizzard to court, or leave the company, not organize a boycott. Which they are not. "
I sincerely appreciate your position, but I do not believe that the Infinity Ward employees are capable of boycotting (when it has been proven that Publishers can simply drop a developer after completion of a project due to contract), and also because of the fact that the other options would almost certainly void the bonuses. Why do you think that their bonus was contingent on the completion of Modern Warfare 3?
Purely hypothetical, but we can all relate: Would anyone notice (unless you had ties to some industry friends) if one of these employees were fired for being 5 minutes late after a smoke break? What would be keeping Activision from doing such terrible things to people that they owe several million dollars to, when they have these people privately enslaved (or held captive due to no payment of a life-altering bonus if you wish) for over a year?
Why would anyone allow a company fall from the bad press, only to serve more of what we expect of them at this point?
Does the fact that Activision-Blizzard possessing millions of dollars (perhaps in bonus', right?) to fight every single court case until it takes years in legal fees to sort out, get missed on anyone?
If anything, I am a single person saying that I would never want to be in that situation, and maybe that might sound a little crazy to some of you, but I see it as a way to support the ones that really need it most, or at least the people that can seemingly do nothing but sit back and take it.
I also see it as: Why haven't Activision-Blizzard simply ditched the many people who they owe money to, which is perhaps a greater sum in total, than that of the two bosses of Infinity Ward, which were let go?
My guess is because they are afraid of you, and what the customers dollar can do.
You'd also be hurting developers in the process. How about you boycott Activision franchises that are run into the ground? Call of Duty, Guitar Hero, whatever. Reward developers and Activision for letting people be creative. Blur for example. If you buy those games as opposed to Call of Duty I think that sends a better message. At least you'd hope.
This should have been a blog post instead, as it does not ask for any direct feedback. It would also allow you to go more in-depth about your view and reasoning behind your views and what you ask.
Remember - the IW guys agreed to these conditions beforehand and were silly enough to accept Kotick's conditions. They used their brains properly now that they are with EA, and are likely to retain their next IP. Also we do not know the whole story except for the one told to us via the online gaming media. I would not be surprised if the ex-IW developers were in the wrong as well, and none of your whining can conclusively dispute that. I buy good games no matter the developer, and move on without caring who made it.
You would need to convince me and at minimum of a few million other people conclusively that Activision is the sole culprit before you even think of encouraging a boycott. Only with such numbers you can truly affect the company, otherwise it is time well wasted. Your link is just one source and is not solid enough to effectively push your point.
" This should have been a blog post instead, as it does not ask for any direct feedback. It would also allow you to go more in-depth about your view and reasoning behind your views and what you ask. Remember - the IW guys agreed to these conditions beforehand and were silly enough to accept Kotick's conditions. They used their brains properly now that they are with EA, and are likely to retain their next IP. Also we do not know the whole story except for the one told to us via the online gaming media. I would not be surprised if the ex-IW developers were in the wrong as well, and none of your whining can conclusively dispute that. I buy good games no matter the developer, and move on without caring who made it. You would need to convince me and at minimum of a few million other people conclusively that Activision is the sole culprit before you even think of encouraging a boycott. Only with such numbers you can truly affect the company, otherwise it is time well wasted. Your link is just one source and is not solid enough to effectively push your point. "
Yours is probably my favorite reply, perhaps because it is intelligently written while using broad assumptions, while missing the point.
This should not have been a blog post, because it is an all inclusive problem which I believe involves the entire community and industry. Not that the Blog vs. Thread thing makes a difference really, and perhaps that is my point.
You use the same form of assumptions in the thread about the situation there, but the difference here is that there is a great deal of articles that support the fact that Activison-Blizzard had went back on the deal and are now requiring the employees to finish Modern Warfare 3 before the bonuses are fully awarded, I have never heard of any company withholding bonuses nearly years after a project. I think that sole point is enough to assume the situation is grave, don't you?
Then the "whining". An attempt to suggest that I have been the one throwing tantrums or something. I know that I have used strong language and that your attempt was at making me sound cheap or something, but anyone in their right mind would have to agree that there has been more "whining" comments in which I wasn't the source of. My personal favorite was "Fuck you". Also, if anything you could say that the bulk of my replies have been well written, and perhaps witty?
There have been a few people here that have iterated "I buy good games no matter the developer..." but really, who are they trying to convince? It is as if each person feels the need to justify their position like it is some cheap game we are playing here, when all I have ever asked is that people reconsider their support of the portion of this industry that is attempting to mistreat a great deal of people and attempting to get away with it. Personally, I don't care how good a game is, I wouldn't buy it if the group of people who made it were a part of a company who attempted strong-arm tactics to keep from paying them for their work. I know I am not alone on this.
Finally. I really don't need to quote more sources because the information is already clear as day through that article, but ok here is another (this is a 4 page article, btw):
" Since West and Zampella's departure, 35 out of Infinity Ward's nearly 100 employees have quit, including the lead designers of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, the best-selling video game of 2009. Most are now suing their former employer." Page One: So now I guess people could say that it was only 35 people, and that isn't even half. The fact that they are suing due to the situation implicates Activision-Blizzard.
" Its decision to buy Guitar Hero without Harmonix was followed by a lawsuit in which the developer and its parent company Viacom Inc. said it was underpaid royalties for sequels that Activision produced. The case was settled after a yearlong private arbitration." Page Four: The arbitration period from Harmonix was ONE YEAR. I don't care how rich any of the employees are at Infinity Ward, this would kill anyone financially, due to legal fees, and this is Activision-Blizzard's plan in the past, present, and future. It is only logical because it has worked in the past. Let us assume that Activision-Blizzard owes each of the 100 employees one million dollars in bonuses, that would essentially be 100 million dollars right? Well, it is more than that (more than what the two Infinity Ward bosses potentially made as well), which is my point.
" Miles Locker, a chief counsel of the California labor commissioner for 16 years who reviewed several of Activision's suits, said the publisher's accusations in its legal filings had not been run-of-the-mill. "The tone of these allegations are aggressive and drastic," he said." Page Four.
"I assumed there would be a sweetener to get us to stay," said Shiring, among the former Infinity Ward staffers suing Activision on allegations of unpaid royalties. "I was surprised when I found out they were going to withhold money. It felt like they didn't appreciate our talent."
An Activision spokesman said the company "retains the discretion to determine the amount and the schedule of bonus payments." Page Four.
You will notice that the entire article was slanted towards Bobby Kotick and what Activison-Blizzard is doing in the industry! Do I not get cool points for that at least? ---------
Finally, I believe that you and a few others are missing the truth about waisting time. I think since I have defended my position against a great deal of criticism and continued to validate my cause it is reason enough to do it. Also, if I have encouraged one person to rethink their position on the matter, I think that is a noble effort.
Diablo is one of my favorite franchises of all time. I'll be damned if I stop playing it just because there was some corporate drama. Everyone involved are adults and this probably will even lead to better things for the IW guys.
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