How angry are you at Bioware for seemingly writing the Mass Effect universe into a corner?

Weird question. I'm more angry at them for creating a mediocre follow-up to a stellar game, not understanding their core fan base, stuffing in a needless multiplayer, and ending it all with one of the worst endings in the history of gaming. A real shitshow all around. I'm never buying a BioWare game again.

D: I'm sick of all the whining about Mass Effect.

I completely disagree.

Mass Effect's story is positioned in such a way that I think you could get -better- stories now than what you had prior to the end of Mass Effect 3. The Sol system is now cut off from the rest of the galaxy and is housing a number of huge alien fleets, all of whom contain what are likely some of the best soldiers of their respective races. They all now face the prospect of being marooned in Sol and never seeing their homes again. Humanity is now dealing with the aftermath of the most devastating event in its history, and are faced with rebuilding a war-torn Earth and adapting to being cut off from the rest of the galaxy, not to mention having to deal with their new (heavily armed) neighbors. Both sides are going to have a very vested interest in figuring out some way to jury rig new relays or something of the sort, and it just so happens some of the galaxy's brightest minds are in Sol too thanks to the Crucible. In addition to all that, there may or may not be a treasure trove of Reaper tech left on Earth (depending on which ending they use as cannon, I'd guess either control or destroy, since the synthesis ending would make things a little weird).

Basically, there's a ton of opportunity for stories to be told, and I think they'd benefit from the focus that being centered in Sol would bring.

So angry... at video games

D: I'm sick of all the whining about Mass Effect.

@Terramagi said:

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@Terramagi said:

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@Terramagi said:

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

The universe is too big for the reapers to be the only story worth telling, really want to go back to when the first humans harnessed the Mass Effect technology and landed on the citadel.

Mass Effect to me is what Star Trek and Star Wars is to so many others, love the universe and species and really want to see it more fleshed out, there has to be other parts of the universe that have a big citadel like government.

That's the thing though.

The series started as Star Trek.

It came with a film grain FOR A REASON.

At the end of the game, literally EVERYTHING is dead. It's not "oh there's no central antagonist in the Reapers". The galaxy has been plunged into an eternal dark age. There IS no coming back from that.

Whos saying go forth, I said go back to when the humans got the ME tech and started exploring space. Or set the story in any of the millions of galaxies out there.

Barely 20 years pass between the First Contact War and ME1.

And if you're setting the story in another galaxy, guess what? Now it's a new series.

How does that make any sense in the ME? You are going between many galaxys in every game.

Do... do you understand space?

Solar Systems...Galaxys, no big difference right.... :(

@AngelN7 said:

I am not? they already established the post ME3 universe in ME3... remember that scene with the stargazer? life finds a way man , I'm sure the next game will be a secuel set thousands of years into the future... also screw angry fanboys they're the worst.

I feel this sums it up pretty well.

So have we reached the backlash against the backlash against the backlash against the backlash stage of the ME3 debate?

Welp I bought ME3 late so I never got a chance to see the way the game originally shipped although I could probably guess how it went down (The aftermath DLC only seems to add short VO epilogues after the endings).

That being said, I thought the ending for ME3 was totally fine which makes the campaign of hate against Bioware seem absolutely baffling. Why did people think this was such an unforgivable sin?

Not angry, just disappointed in Bioware's continued lack of foresight. It was a blitheringly stupid move on their part to write themselves not one, but three potentially world-breaking solutions, and a retcon at this point is almost a necessity. It would be simple enough - have the observer and child make mention that these stories about Shepherd are just that - only stories, and likely given to exaggeration.

I'm glad they gave Shepard's story a really strong finality. The game was supposed to be this epic trilogy and that's exactly what we got. At the end of ME3 the universe has become a drastically different place, and one of dozens (hundreds?) of drastically different places depending on the choices you've made. And even then, they could still find a way to continue the series if they really wanted to by either setting the next games way in the future, choosing one general ending as canon, or just deus-ex-machina-ing the whole thing.

But prequels are fine. I honestly can't see them doing something on the scale of ME1-3 again within the same universe.

B.

I'm not angry at them. The Bioware writers had a story they wanted to tell, which really came to a head at the end and had a definitive conclusion. The only reason it's difficult to continue now is because they have it a proper ending, and I don't think we can be reasonably mad at people who give stories endings. We're living in a world when where great new fictional universes are created there are many people out there just working out how to turn it into a brand or long-runnning franchise, Bioware could have held back and gave some wishy-washy half-ending for the sake of further enfranchising Mass Effect, but they didn't. Even if that ending wasn't what it should have been, giving the trilogy a definitive ending is something I can respect them for. If anything I'm mad at the people who think that just when we've hit some sort of conclusive point Mass Effect needs to be immediately continued and a whole bunch of new Mass Effect content needs to be churned out for the sake of it.

The Mass Effect universe is pretty much dead to me after ME 3. So, I really don't care. If the next game is good, I'll play it but the story is no longer important to me.

I'm not angry because as of now I couldn't care less about mass effect.

The very end of ME3 makes me sad, not angry. 99% of that game was good.

There are still stories to tell. Each species/civilization has an interesting history and is affected by the events of ME3. It would be interesting to see how any one of those civilizations moves forward both in the short term and the long term.

Why would I be angry? They have the entire universe to work with and create new stories? They could create multi-game arcs that never even cross-over with the events of the 3 games we have. They could fully explore events that they've only alluded too. There's plenty of ways to continue the universe without having to pick up from the ending of ME3. Think of how many Star Wars books have been made that exist in completely different eras and with new characters

@Milkman said:

The Mass Effect universe is pretty much dead to me after ME 3. So, I really don't care. If the next game is good, I'll play it but the story is no longer important to me.

At least it can't get any worse, can it?

Can it?!

How dare they make a bold and controversial choice and have a defined endpoint for their story! How dare they put creative agency before franchising opportunities!

Still haven't finished ME3 (though obviously I know the ending since people wouldn't shut up about it), but I sincerely doubt they won't find a way to worm out of the ending and continue the franchise going forward if they really want to. Most of the universe was presumably unified over the course of ME 1-3, so that's not exactly interesting anyway. Setting it earlier in the timeline would allow for those old hatreds to be brought back up, humans could deal with their first Turian encounters, events with the Krogans before and during the Genophage could be explored, so on and so on. That sounds more interesting then any sequel could be, to me.

Basically I prefer real endings to the comic book approach, i.e. "This is just the end of this 'arc' and only very surface-level changes have actually been made so that characters and environments are still recognizable and you enjoy them the same ways you always have!"

@Gamer_152: Well the writers for ME3 dropped the ball and took the story in a direction most people didn't like. Why oh why was Drew Karpyshyn got taken off from writing the 3rd game will remain a mystary. IMO it's one of the biggest mistakes Bioware ever made. I really feel that he should have been leading the story and not Mac Walters.

Forgive me if I'm missing something, but you're angry about them actually writing an ending for the story they created? Really?

I hate how many games end with cliffhangers, at least they finally said "this is it" instead of "now that this adventure is done, what other crazy hi jinks await the Milky Way Galaxy?!"

@mordukai said:

@Gamer_152: Well the writers for ME3 dropped the ball and took the story in a direction most people didn't like. Why oh why was Drew Karpyshyn got taken off from writing the 3rd game will remain a mystary. IMO it's one of the biggest mistakes Bioware ever made. I really feel that he should have been leading the story and not Mac Walters.

Oh, the ending wasn't good, I absolutely agree with that, but that's not the issue at hand. The discussion here is meant about how angry we are that Bioware wrote the story in such a way that it's not easy to continue for writers picking it up post-ending.

I'm not angry at all. The Extended Cut really helped clear things up for me, and it allowed me to make a final decision that I was comfortable with, which was Synthesis. Shepard died when I made that choice, but it allowed everyone to finally peacefully coexist with the Reapers.

I have no problems with Prequels, but I would really like Bioware to move the series forward to years later, and show us the consequences of the decisions we made in the first three games.

@Roger778: The consequences require completely different games. There is no way to build a single game that can shift the goalposts to include the three possible outcomes. One of them is a return to the way things were, one changes the nature of all life in the galaxy, the other one is literally the apotheosis of a living God.

I felt kind of down, because I would like more Mass Effect past 2186. But I've grown to accept it. It's probably better that they just shut the door on the future, lest a Halo 4 situation erupts.

@mordukai said:

@Gamer_152: Well the writers for ME3 dropped the ball and took the story in a direction most people didn't like. Why oh why was Drew Karpyshyn got taken off from writing the 3rd game will remain a mystary. IMO it's one of the biggest mistakes Bioware ever made. I really feel that he should have been leading the story and not Mac Walters.

... Because he didn't want to write it anymore?

@Terramagi: Ultra-miffed? Giga-nnoyed?

@MattyFTM said:

@Seppli said:

@MattyFTM said:

Based on the original ending (I haven't played the extended cut yet), I don't think it is backed into a corner.I think it leaves the universe in a really interesting place. Mass Effect Relays can and will be rebuilt. The Protheans built a working one, the other Aliens will too. The connections between the systems will be rebuilt. But right now thousands of aliens are stranded in Sol. It's going to be chaos. Madness. For a few years it's going to be one hell of a crazy universe. I don't know if they could make a game very well in that universe, but there is certainly space for some awesome fiction to take place around that plot point. And for the games, just fast forward five or so years when the relays are rebuilt. The universe is still going to be a weird place with lots of readjusting to do and lots of interesting plot points based around that, but the large scale universe exploration is all still there.

What's the point in rebuilding a single gate in the Sol system? It connects to nowhere. Just sayin'...

If I remember my ME fiction correctly, the Mass Effect relays themselves don't directly connect to another one. They just slingshot you across the universe at insane speeds. One of the plot points of ME2 was that you can end up thousands of miles away from the other relay - that's why they needed a special targeting thing (I've forgot what it was called) to go through the Omega 4 relay). You need another one to go back, but to actually get to a place you only need one.

Either way, there are ways to get around the destruction of the ME relays. They can be written back in. And then you're no longer in that corner.

You guys know the Mass Relays are now only "slightly damaged" in the Extended Cut and they're totally functional again, right? So the Relays are fine and galactic civilization is whole again.

They retconned this problem, people just didn't play the Extended Cut. You can be mad all you like about the decision to retcon the ending to ME3, but now you can have sequels to Mass Effect. Happy?

@Seppli: Not every game has to have a sequel and not every I.P. has to go on forever. There's something to be said for leaving the audience wanting more and there's always reboots or whatever ten years down the line.

@AngelN7 said:

I am not? they already established the post ME3 universe in ME3... remember that scene with the stargazer? life finds a way man , I'm sure the next game will be a secuel set thousands of years into the future... also screw angry fanboys they're the worst.

Errrrrrrrr, no... whats a stargazer?

No, I'm not angry because they didn't write themselves in a corner. It's pretty obvious that if they were to go forward with the universe, they would have to make the "destroy" ending the canon one because the other two fundamentally change the nature of that universe and the extended cut made sure to tell you "no guys, really, they rebuilt the relays and it's all cool". If Bioware has something they need to do, they need to make me care about any further developments in the Mass Effect universe which will be a feat in and of itself.

But seriously. It's been almost a year. Get over it.

Mass Effect ended at 2 for me.

[ ] Hysterically pissed.

[x] Not butt-offended.

@glyn said:

@AngelN7 said:

I am not? they already established the post ME3 universe in ME3... remember that scene with the stargazer? life finds a way man , I'm sure the next game will be a secuel set thousands of years into the future... also screw angry fanboys they're the worst.

Errrrrrrrr, no... whats a stargazer?

Stargazer , that scene completely negates the whole "writting the universe into a corner"... did people seriously missed that or what?

@Gamer_152: Frankly I don't know if going forward with ME is the right choice. I mean what exactly do you fight after reapers??? Going back is the right choice.

@Brodehouse: He got transferred to work on TOR and then he left Bioware shorty after his work was done on that game.

Not angry at all.

I'm one of the few that actually was okay with the original endings and really liked the extended ones.

And I don't see that they've "written themselves into a corner" at all. In all three endings it is shown that the galaxy is moving forward technologically, whether from studying Reaper tech from the Destroy ending, being helped by you-know-who in the Control ending, or having it ingrained into their DNA in the Synthesis ending.

All you need is a chunk of time to have passed, say 10-20 years, and you could go right on with the story with only a few dialog options changing between the different canons. Even the glowing green "circuit-skin" from Synthesis could be explained away fairly easily if they didn't want to have to address it. (i.e. "Yeah, synthesis was kinda hard to get used to at first. At least the green stuff faded away after a few years.")

Personally I'd rather see that than a prequel. At least going forward with the story gives them free reign to have new powers and weapons. Prequels would be hampered with using only what we've seen before or have new stuff that comes off odd since we didn't see it in any of the other games.

I stopped caring about Mass Effect after I played 2 and it was bad.
 
 
Where's that poll option?

I'm ok, i guess the disappoint has passed and i have moved on to play more games. I still wonder how they will continue the world of Mass effect but i have faith they don't want to mess up mass effect so they will find a way to make a new mass effect game work. Just simply following someone else on a smaller scale would work for me which could be set at any point in time really.

I would want a more gritter lived in story were you get to visit cities and planets with a little more detail and stuff going on. No need to save the world or make everyone work together. Maybe something like alpha protocol (moral system that is) where you have factions that you can work for or betray and missions would play out differently depending who you are allied with and fighting. Still have a crew and a ship that will allow for recruiting and upgrades that would give you and your ships perks.

Other things i would like to see is ship battles, find a way of searching planets that is fun, More RPG systems, dynamic crews choices support and combat, and lets keep what worked from passed mass effect games.

There doesn't need to be some crazy grand adventure to save the world or anything for that matter for it to be interesting, its not hard to see how its totally possible to make great storyline just in the universe as it was before the whole Shepard stuff.

I'm more pissed that they didn't honour the original vision of ME and keep it at a generation-long trilogy. I mean for fuck's sakes, ME wasn't even THAT popular when compared to true heavyweights like Halo.

There haven't been many serious games which have showcased a first encounter with another alien species from across the universe. Mass Effect could do that.

i;m angry for other reasons. i really dont want to play another game like ME3 ever again.

i love the singularity . and that was what the broad story of mass effect was about. the experience along the way was amazing, and then the singularity truly began , at the end of the series. . i dont see how it could or should have been any other way . . like with any game, some things could have been done better. but mass effect does not deserve any of the bullshit thats been surrounding it.. at all.

Considering I get more enjoyment from watching Bioware bury itself alive than I do from any of their recent games I'm absolutely delighted.

I think it's rather sad that people are so determined on wanting sequels.

I, for one, would be completely content with Bioware completing this IP with their third installment and moving on to something else.

Considering the 100+ hour trilogy was effectively concluded up with 'because magic we just introduced 2 minutes ago', I'd say it's plausible they will be able to come up with some conceit for continuing the story if they really want to. It's not like they're going to lose sleep over whether it makes any sense or not.

i'm not angry in the slightest. they wrote a mediocre ending. that's a bit disappointing, but life moves on, and it doesn't discredit the previous 2.75 games worth of content that was brilliant. and the universe they created is fantastic. i'll head into any venture labelled 'mass effect' with an open mind. if they make games that reduce the lore content and focus more on the visceral- that's when my interest will wane. they've set up several possible directions they could go in for prequels-

human/turian war

krogan/rachnii war

prothean/reaper war

any sort of privateer story involving omega

think halo reach. everyone knew how that was going to end, and yet, it's often considered to be the 'best' halo.

but seriously, if you're still angry about mass effect 3- move on. it'll do your blood pressure a world of good.

I would rather have a sequel than a prequel so pretty angry plus ugh that ending... not to mention hearing it may be even more of a shooter now with no rpg elements I think I am done with Mass Effect forever. Plus why would I care about a prequel when I know the ending of the Mass Effect Universe is so dumb!

congrats you manged to to open a wormhole to last march where no forum was good

I chose the third option, although it's not that prequels are always inferior, it's that we kinda know everything that happens in the Mass Effect universe after humans get involved. I guess a midquel could work, that takes place concurrent to the main franchise, but I really don't know how BioWare could move the universe forward.

That being said, if they do choose an ending, especially the synthesis or control endings, they could still find some neat ways to move the series forward.