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Posted by patrickklepek (6436 posts) -

Manfred “Manny” Sideous was away from his computer when it happened. “It” was an unpaid bill. When you forget to pay your cable bill, you get a warning and move on. Maybe it goes off for the day. When Manny forgot to pay his bill, it was the catalyst for the largest clash in EVE Online’s 11-year history.

Manny, the man at the center of B-R5RB.
Manny, the man at the center of B-R5RB.

A friend sent Manny a text, and alerted him to the issue.

“We’ve got problems [laughs],” he said.

He wasn’t joking. This battle resulted in 11 trillion ISK in damage, according to developer CCP’s estimates. ISK is EVE Online’s in-game currency, and when 11 trillion ISK is converted to USD, it's more than $300,000. (ISK cannot be legally exported to real-world money, however. It would mean CCP could be treated like a bank and be subject to financial regulations.)

All of this over a bill? Yes, but this particular bill was very important. It was the sovereignty bill for a system called B-R5RB. There are thousands of systems in EVE Online, each controlled by a variety of warring factions, but B-R5RB was controlled by the alliance Pandemic Legion, and Manny leads Pandemic Legion. B-R5RB was one of Pandemic Legion’s staging systems. Staging systems are used to coordinate and launch ships. Thousands of players could be operating out of one during an important mission.

Despite being set in the future, paying bills is still a pain in the ass in EVE Online. Manny told me most players refer to the interface for such matters as a “sucking chest wound.” Manny didn’t forget about the bill. In his mind, it was paid. The interface seemed to reflect the payment, and he moved on. Two other members of Pandemic Legion even double checked his work. But the bill, whether through oversight or a glitch, wasn’t paid, and it was owed to the CONCORD, EVE Online’s NPC police force. When that bill went unpaid, that territory was no longer in control of Pandemic Legion. It was up for grabs.

“Even if CCP came back and said ‘hey, this was a mistake, we’ll reverse the sov,’ it’s not going to change the fact that we had this giant fight and all these ships were lost,” he said. “They can’t undo all that. What’s done is done.”

Even if the bill payment was a mistake on the game's part, Manny doesn’t have much room to complain. Pandemic Legion benefited from a glitch in the EVE Online matrix just a few weeks back.

But before we continue, let’s set the stage.

What’s happening in EVE Online right now is known as The Halloween War, an ongoing clash between the N3 coalition (a grouping of Northern Coalition, Nulli Secunda, and Nexus Fleet, a trio that formed up during the fallout of a massive war from 2012) and the Drone Russian Federation (aka “The Russians”). N3 recently intervened in a clash called the Fountain War, which was unfolding between CFC (Clusterfuck Coalition, primarily led by the massive, troll-y Goonswarm Alliance from the website/message board Something Awful) and the TEST alliance (which stems from Reddit).

This intervention upset CFC.

“We don’t fuck around when it come to sov wars,” said Alex “The Mittani” Gianturco. “The reason people don’t like fighting us is [because] we’re a very well-oiled machine.”

No Caption Provided

The Mittani is one of EVE Online’s most notorious figures. He was the one behind some infamously alcohol-fueled remarks towards another player from 2012. That incident prompted CCP to ban Gianturco from the game for 30 days, and forced Gianturco to resign from the player-run Council of Stellar Management, a governing body that acts as a liaison between the players and the developers.

Right now, Gianturco estimates he controls roughly half the galaxy in EVE Online.

CFC focuses its efforts on sovereignty war in EVE Online. It’s why Gianturco can talk a big game: he has the destroyed ships to back it up. Sovereignty war is where much of the intrigue happens in EVE Online. By design, it often ends up in long stalemates. Each side is able to move the equivalent of tanks and healers into position, and no one gains any substantial ground. That’s where the EVE Online metagame comes in, the world of spies, deception, and sabotage. Gianturco, for example, splits his time in and out of EVE itself, managing this metagame. (He was also good friends with the well-known diplomat Vile Rat, who passed away in the attack on the Benghazi embassy in 2012.)

A few weeks ago, CFC found itself in a bad way in the battle of HED-GP. CFC and the Russians had sent a “whole shitpile” of dreadnoughts--a capital ship designed to destroy other capital ships--to attack N3. But the servers couldn’t handle what they'd thrown into HED-GP. Instead, the screens of the CFC and Russian players went dark, but the game kept moving forward. (CCP later published a blog explaining what happened.)

“All of our guys were black screened and it was a turkey shoot,” said Gianturco.

There was nothing anyone could do. With no effort at all, N3 destroyed the “whole shitpile” of ships.

When massive fights break out in EVE Online, fights much larger than usual, there are several ways the game tries to accommodate for it. One way is that CCP can anticipate a battle and beef up server capacity. Some of this anticipation is informed by the players themselves; CCP has a courtesy form players can fill out to slide CCP a virtual note about an upcoming attack. What’s more common, however, is time dilation. EVE Online is not real-time, so in response to large-scale warfare, the game clock slows down, reducing the number of actions happening at once. Most of the time, this works out fine. But not every single time.

Unsurprisingly, this only further upset Gianturco and CFC, but glitch or not, it was a victory for N3. CFC was sent licking its wounds. Then, Manny forgot to pay a bill, and this gave CFC a big opening.

When Manny received a text message from his friend, he went racing back to his computer. Losing control of a single area of space is not a big deal. In most circumstances, what happened to Manny and N3 would, like I said, be the equivalent of missing a cable bill. But B-R5RB was not N3’s cable bill. It was a staging system, an intersection of travel and commerce equivalent to a major trading hub like Boston.

"Typically speaking, in a sovereignty war, you don’t attack a staging system. It’s like hitting somebody’s capital. If you’re invading America, you don’t attack Washington D.C. first."

“Typically speaking, in a sovereignty war, you don’t attack a staging system,” said Gianturco. “It’s like hitting somebody’s capital. If you’re invading America, you don’t attack Washington D.C. first. If you did, it would be called a headshot attempt or a decapitation strike or something. Usually, those backfire. You don’t normally do that because the enemy has all of their strength there. They usually defend successfully, and then, their morale is increased and they’re better at fighting. So they did the equivalent of leaving their capital undefended by accident, which is horrible.”

The bill went unpaid at an especially inopportune time. EVE Online, like any other online game, never really stops. If you’re not in the game, the world keeps moving. Part of the reason alliances form is based on the geographical makeup of the players. If you’re primarily a North American set of players, you might want to partner with a set from Europe. That way, when you’re offline, someone can cover your back. This is critical for building the most powerful ships, which must be crafted out in the open.

When the tax man came for Manny’s money, only the Russians were awake. The Russians bided their time, and waited for N3 to begin reclaiming the system with a device called the territorial claim unit (TCU). Building another TCU is not enough, though. A TCU doesn’t come online for eight whole hours, which means N3 had not only lost a crucial stronghold, but it would have to successfully defend it from invaders for hours on end.

One hour from the system coming back online, the Russians struck. The TCU had been destroyed. If the Russians had allowed the TCU to come online, there would have been moments where the TCU was invulnerable, making what happens next less appealing to those who desired war.

“[This turned] the problem from a pretty big problem to a major problem,” said Manny. “ […] If you’re from another video game, it’s like a boss fight. It’s the main boss. It has a lot of health, and it takes forever to kill it. So when you’re taking a station, it’s the same thing. You have to grind the station down until there’s no health left, and it changes hands and ownership.”

The Russians brought in their own forces and began building their own TCU to capture the territory.

In this screen shot, every red or orange dot is either a ship or a drone participating in the enormous B-R5RB conflict.
In this screen shot, every red or orange dot is either a ship or a drone participating in the enormous B-R5RB conflict.

Losing B-R5RB was a big problem for N3, but not much of a gain for CFC and the Russians. But for N3 to regain control of B-R5RB, it would have to commit substantial resources to do so. This was the opportunity in front of CFC. It was a chance to deal a huge blow to N3’s overall war assets.

In particular, CFC wanted to target N3’s titans. When one titan goes down, it’s enough to cause a headline on EVE Online websites. A titan takes more than a month to build, costs in excess of $40 billion ISK to produce (roughly $1500 USD), and is EVE Online's equivalent to nukes. The more titans one side has, the more likely the other side is to back off.

Prior to the battle at B-R5RB, the most titans ever destroyed in a single battle was 12. That was considered historic. 75 titans would eventually go down in flames during B-R5RB’s conflict.

A big reason N3 has been able to throw its weight around recently is its enormous fleet of titans and super capital ships. When faced with its B-R5RB problem, N3 decided to bring out the Wrecking Ball, the pet name of its extremely powerful fleet. Manny and N3 were hoping CFC would blink.

“It’s like shoving all-in in poker,” said Gianturco. “You’re shoving all your chips into the middle of the table and hoping the other guy doesn’t have better cards than you. Most of the time, the other guy will fold. Except in this case, we came across over the top and took all their shit away.”

B-R5RB was not the only part of the galaxy where N3 was dealing with unpaid bills. B-R5RB was merely the flashpoint. Manny was forced to split his forces, and hope the Wrecking Ball would prove enough to turn CFC away. Unfortunately for N3, that wasn’t the case. CFC happily took the bait.

“I wasn’t able to be in two places at the same time, and that’s what snowballed the problem into the situation it grew into,” said Manny.

“They put their dick on the table, and we chopped it off,” said Gianturco.

Gianturco was comfortable pulling the trigger due to his spynet. Spies are a huge part of CFC's strategy. It has eyes and ears everywhere doing the less spectacular grunt work that allows Gianturco to adopt such an aggressive posture. Double agents informed Gianturco that Manny had exhausted his resources. After Gianturco did the math, it became clear CFC could eventually overtake N3’s forces.

And though Gianturco and Manny are the faces of this, they were just one of thousands of actors involved.

Mishirosen is part of the Goonswarm Alliance within CFC, and one of the more than 2,670 pilots who took part in the 21-hour battle. He’s a capital ship pilot, giving him certain levels of security clearance within CFC, and he was part of a dreadnought in the very middle of the conflict.

This is what the conflict looked like at this point, by the way.

No Caption Provided

At this point, time dilation has kicked in, and the game is moving at 10% of normal speed. EVE Online becomes a pseudo-RTS at this point, with planning happening minutes or hours in advance. During the battle, Mishirosen was constantly paying attention to a Mumble server. Mumble is a voice communication tool used by many EVE Online players because it scales well to many users. As fleet commanders called targets--“all dreads shoot ‘z man’”--he would line up his target and fire.

“As dreadnaught, it’s fairly simple cause your whole ship is built around massive guns," he said.

The battle proved so chaotic and crazy that Mishirosen even had to dial down his graphic settings. But with time dilation kicked in, the action was progressing much slower than usual. With the battle raging for hours and hours, this gave Mishirosen opportunities to, uh, take care of business.

“With everything so slow you can leave for a couple minutes and come back and not too much has changed,” he said. “You won’t be as efficient as you could be but I’d rather not be optimal than piss myself.”

Zachary Pligge was another pilot in the thick of it, albeit for different reasons. He’s a longtime pirate, which is why he was comfortable allowing his real-life name to be published, rather than his EVE Online handle.

“All I know is battles this big don't happen so often, and I have total disregard for my safety in EVE,” said Pligge. “This is one of the reasons I enjoy EVE so much.”

Pligge was recruited by friends in N3, and joined the fight in a support role. The battle took place while Pligge was at work, however, so he executed directives from in-game commanders via a laptop at his desk.

“My boss has actually stood over my shoulder a few times to watch and ask questions,” he said. “He was intrigued as well.”

All told, Pligge spent about six hours plunging in and out of the conflict, even though he ended up fighting for the losing side.

“‘Won' sounds so bad since so much was lost by both sides,” he said.

CFC was the clear winner, but it’s understandable why someone would look at the screen and wonder how anyone could come out alive. As CFC and N3 started to trade the defeat of titan ships, CFC started to gain ground. It eventually became clear N3 would be unable to mount a comeback, and started pulling its ships out. CFC would not allow N3's escape to happen easily, however. It had been freezing N3’s ships into place with warp disruption bubbles, preventing ships from warping. By contrast, N3 was unable to keep most of CFC's ships inside the battle, which allowed them to escape and heal without worry about the spray of space gunfire.

“Any ship that isn’t caught in a bubble at this point gets the hell out of there and the rest are basically just left to die because they can’t go anywhere,” said Mishirosen.

N3 ended up losing 59 titans in the skirmish, a brutal blow.

Manny said the next move for his side is to “reassess” but admitted it’s a huge setback.

“We had the hostiles on the ropes,” said Manny. “We had dealt major defeats to them over and over for a pretty good time. This has not only stopped all progress, but I feel it is going to undo all of the progress that we made and we will probably losing a lot of ground in this war. It’s monumental on the effect it has.”

Gianturco believes the first mistake Manny made was not capitalizing on on his earlier successes.

“They should have, if they were smart,” he said, “given everybody a bunch of coffee and uppers and said ‘alright, guys, we’ve won this great battle a couple of weeks ago, and now it’s time to twist the knife.’”

“I’ve communicated with the enemy leaders. We’re gonna take these three regions, give them the finger, and then fuck off. That’s the price they pay."

But Manny didn’t do that, and now N3 is the one going into hiding. According to Gianturco’s spies, it will take months for N3 to recover. Gianturco doesn’t intend to squander this opportunity, but he won’t crush N3. Instead, he plans to take three regions from N3 and hand them over to the Russians.

“I’ve communicated with the enemy leaders and told them [that] I’m only going to take three regions from them, and then I’m going to let them live,” he said. “We’re gonna take these three regions, give them the finger, and then fuck off. That’s the price they pay for coming after us in Fountain.”

Both sides expect this will lead to a small period of peace within EVE Online, at least as peaceful as a game like EVE Online ever becomes. Inevitably, there will be more conflict. It’s the way of the game.

“I never wanted to conquer half the galaxy, but whatever, man. I’m rolling with it,” said Gianturco.

The momentous battle will not be forgotten anytime soon, either. CCP is currently building a memorial called "Titanomachy" to permanently mark the bloodied occasion. It will serve as a reminder of what was lost, what was gained, and the hubris of assuming you'll always be on top.

"All empires rise and fall, they all come and go," said Manny. " [...] We let the chips fall where they may and that was that. That’s all you can really do, and that’s what we did. We fought like lions. We held nothing back."

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#1 Edited by jesterroyal (393 posts) -

I was waiting for this article. Yay!


This is a great write up. I'm glad you spoke to some big wigs and line members alike. It gives a much better view of everything that went on compared to some of the other quickly published articles. This game is full of cool stuff like that since its such a personal story. Its like putting your gear on the line every time you go into a dungeon in WoW. There's a level of investment and risk that allows for cool stories to emerge.

If anybody is thinking about giving eve a shot I'd still encourage you guys to join "giantbombing" in game. It's the GB community chat channel. Kite Co. Space Trucking is also still trucking and we are always looking for new people who want to give this cool game a shot too. We may not have been on the front lines in this big battle but you end up making your own stories (Did you know that a 6 month old Kite Co with little money in their pocket squared off against a German alliance with more experience and more money and came out on top?)

If you find yourself interested in this game, at least give it a shot. Someone can hook you up with a 3 week trial. This game is not as hard as people would have you believe and all it takes is getting in with a good crowd to really enjoy it.

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#2 Posted by conmulligan (1754 posts) -

Terrific write-up, Patrick. I love hearing stories about EVE, despite having no desire to actually play it.

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#3 Posted by jay_ray (1540 posts) -

Giant Bomb should have a regular "Tales from space" story about the weirdness of EVE Online

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#4 Posted by MarkHawk (130 posts) -

The report I've been waiting for.

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#5 Edited by hassun (8413 posts) -

Can't wait for the podcasts with the winners and losers.

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#6 Edited by Itwongo (1741 posts) -

Shit like this makes me want to get into Eve again. Such a huge time sink.

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#7 Posted by Renahzor (1043 posts) -

Great article Patrick! KiteCo always looks forward to new EVE online content on the site. :D

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#8 Edited by alwaysbebombing (2603 posts) -


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#9 Posted by TournamentOfHate (880 posts) -

I've actually avoided a lot of information about this and waited for Patrick to do his write-up.

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#10 Edited by LethalKi11ler (1679 posts) -

Great, great, great, GREAT article. Always been very curious to anything EVE online but I don't seem to have the time to dedicate to it.

Kinda jealous I missed out on what seemed like a great battle... except for the monetary losses.

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#11 Edited by KingGiddra (312 posts) -
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#12 Edited by Astrospin (17 posts) -

Nice reporting. EVE is completely bonkers to me. It's like these people live two separate lives.

[Edit] : Also, Patrick, you've become my favorite person at Giant Bomb. You do things nobody else there does, and it's appreciated.

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#13 Posted by Zero_Tactility (66 posts) -

Fantastic write-up, Patrick. I dabbled just enough in EVE years ago to provide some context for this stuff, and it's fascinating to have a little window into the ongoing space-madness.

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#14 Posted by Spiritof (2341 posts) -

I've never played EVE Online.

I love EVE Online.

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#15 Posted by Lavos (94 posts) -

Amazing! Great article Patrick! I really enjoyed reading it. My EVE exploits kinda just amounted to getting ganked while mining asteroids.

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#16 Posted by ILikePopCans (947 posts) -

I guess this is a article I need to read over a few times.Good job

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#17 Edited by sameeeeam (2469 posts) -

Solid article as always Patrick.

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#18 Edited by teekomeeko (780 posts) -

Omg, I was desperately waiting for Patrick's write-up on this. I'm gonna sip coffee and absorb EVE's crazyness. Yet again.

EDIT: Now that I've finished it, I have to say it was a well-written piece, for sure. That, and Mittani sounds like a friggin' man-baby, especially compared to the intelligence and "let it be because it's a game" attitude of Manny.

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#19 Edited by Renahzor (1043 posts) -
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#20 Edited by TheUnsavedHero (1308 posts) -

@spiritof said:

I've never played EVE Online.

I love EVE Online.

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#21 Posted by Boywonder03 (43 posts) -

A nice write up of events for the everyday video game guy.

Well done Patrick!

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#22 Edited by bunkerbuster05 (502 posts) -

I'll never play Eve online, but I'm utterly fascinated by it.

Great article, scoops. I'll need to read over it again, it's pretty dense!

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#23 Posted by Subjugation (4970 posts) -

You too could be a part of this ridiculous universe with a bunch of awesome duders!

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#24 Posted by Schatzy23 (194 posts) -

Great article, Patrick!! I love the stories we get from EVE.

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#25 Posted by lighthaze (28 posts) -

Great read. I guess the tales about Mittanis self-confidence are true.

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#26 Posted by muthachugga (53 posts) -

Great article Patrick!

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#27 Posted by Boywonder03 (43 posts) -
Avatar image for fobwashed
#28 Edited by Fobwashed (2737 posts) -

This was a great read. Fantastic work putting together a cohesive story from something this ridiculously complicated and deep =D

Eve is so crazy...

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#29 Edited by Hunkulese (4225 posts) -

"and the hubris of assuming you'll always be on top"

Seems kind of silly for them to say that when this all happened because of a glitch.

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#30 Posted by Renahzor (1043 posts) -

@fobwashed: Agreed, difficult article to write for the non-eve playing reader, its way too easy to get caught up in the minutia of the game itself, he did a great job here.

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#31 Posted by Uranium (39 posts) -

"and the hubris of assuming you'll always be on top"

Seems kind of silly for them to say that when this all happened because of a glitch.

N3/PL was convinced that if a massive capital engagement were to happen they would win it hands down, and then they got crushed. That's the hubris part.

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#32 Posted by spraynardtatum (4369 posts) -

so damn cool

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#33 Posted by turboman (9240 posts) -

This is the fucking craziest thing I've ever read.

Good job Patrick.

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#34 Posted by Theory (93 posts) -

Super awesome article. EVE is basically the most fascinating social experiment. Agreed on the "Tales from Space" periodical.

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#35 Posted by LoktarOgar (558 posts) -

Giant "Eve Online Souls" Bomb.

This is not the site I signed up to, but I sure am liking it.

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#36 Edited by bunkerbuster05 (502 posts) -

“I never wanted to conquer half the galaxy, but whatever, man. I’m rolling with it,” said Gianturco.

This sounds like the beginning of a Galactic Empire.

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#37 Posted by Xeiphyer (5855 posts) -

Fucking great article Patrick.

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#38 Posted by GongZero (36 posts) -

CFC (Clusterfuck Coalition, primarily led by the massive, troll-y Goonswarm Alliance from the website/message board Something Awful) and the TEST alliance (which stems from Reddit).

I thought TEST and Goons had parted ways last year.

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#39 Posted by TehPickle (681 posts) -

Just incredibly fascinating stuff here. Nice work Patrick.

I tried EVE once a couple of years ago and was totally intimidated by it. I'd love to try again, but getting started in that game seems like a real uphill struggle.

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#40 Posted by Deathpooky (1719 posts) -

Twice I've tried to play Eve and each time found it boring as hell. But man do I love reading these stories.

Wasn't an earlier major battle also caused by a stupid mistake? A guy misclicking the warp button and ending up ambushed?

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#41 Posted by Renahzor (1043 posts) -

@deathpooky: Yeah, "Jump"(move your own ship there) and "Bridge"(essentially open a portal for other ships) are very close to each other in the contextual menu, leading to these kind of mistakes semi-commonly.

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#42 Posted by Uranium (39 posts) -

@gongzero said:

CFC (Clusterfuck Coalition, primarily led by the massive, troll-y Goonswarm Alliance from the website/message board Something Awful) and the TEST alliance (which stems from Reddit).

I thought TEST and Goons had parted ways last year.

Yes, the war was CFC vs TEST, not CFC + TEST vs someone else.

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#43 Edited by sunbrozak (2257 posts) -

Those people are insane. I love it.

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#44 Posted by Zanien (35 posts) -

EVE online is insanity. Entertaining to read about though! Great write up Patrick!

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#45 Posted by SWD (80 posts) -

Great write up Patrick. I love hearing about all the madness from EVE.

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#46 Posted by AuthenticM (4324 posts) -

Goddamn I love reading on this game.

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#47 Edited by TheManWithNoPlan (7391 posts) -

Amazing insanity.

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#48 Edited by Jonny_Anonymous (3284 posts) -

@jay_ray said:

Giant Bomb should have a regular "Tales from space" story about the weirdness of EVE Online

I would read the shit out of that

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#49 Edited by gaggle64 (282 posts) -

I think this is fantastic. It's like something out of a Culture novel.

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#50 Posted by JayCee (677 posts) -

I love that something like EVE online exists. I have no interest in actually trying my hand with EVE, but the stories that constantly come out of it are fantastic.

Great write-up Tricky Scoops!