Commentary on GB Hiring

Personally I find it odd any of you took any kind of offense. It is clear Jeff thought they were the best fit so that's who he hired. This is how it works in most industries in America when you aren't hiring for a warm body position. You are looking to hire, know a person who does what you are looking to hire for, you know you get along with them, you know they do good work from past records, and you know they will merge well with the team cause they already know the team, so you hire them. It is called making a safe bet. It is what most intelligent businesses do.

Wow, not even close. Not on the same planet.

So uh...that Destiny beta huh? That's gonna be pretty cool. Video games.

@underattack86: You do not have the right to say "fuck you" to anyone on this forum. That will definitely be moderated. Keep things civil or leave.

So I essentially never post in the forums even though I've been visiting this site since it was still a blog called "Arrow Pointing Down," but I had been hoping for some new perspectives/some diversity in the hiring so I figure I'll leave my $0.02 here since it seems to be the place to do so. I'll say upfront that I haven't read all the threads/twitter stuff and I know absolutely nothing about the two new arrivals to the crew - I'm sure they are great people, and I have no gripes with them.

I am also sure that there was no intentional racism/sexism involved in the hiring process, but that is what is so insidious about racism and sexism - there will be always be some terrible people with awful views but these forces act on an unintentional, systemic level as well (which is why the "good old boys" still dominate executive positions/board positions/etc in the corporate world even though OF COURSE there is no discrimination in hiring!). For a long time the video game industry catered almost exclusively to adolescent males (much like most mainstream action films) so it's no surprise that publications would choose personalities that cater to this demographic. And there's nothing wrong with catering to adolescent males. However, as the gaming audience has matured and grown more diverse, it is not unreasonable to expect publications to diversify their personalities as well.

I think the timing of the hiring hasn't worked towards GB's favor, for diversity at both the E3 press conferences and the GB after show were rather awful. I don't doubt Patrick's sincerity in his Tumblr post and his commitment to expanding "his rolodex" in the future. It would be a bit hypocritical for him and the rest of the GB staff to criticize diversity in the industry at large while ignoring the lack of diversity at their own company. Hopefully this discussion will help GB avoid issues like this in the future, for the only way to combat entrenched sexism/racism is to actively encourage diverse perspectives.

@underattack86:

Alex, Brad and Jeff pretty much confirmed that some of the hate was coming from real Giant bomb members. This has happened before when the whole "they don't really have any ladies working for them" issue came up. Its really not shocking that some of the community members are shitbags.

I've seen literally zero people in this thread doing that. Appropriate that your straw man would come out of the woodworks.

I love Giant Bomb. I'm excited for Dan and Jason to start getting to work. Tomorrow there'll be a Gerstmann/Ryckert Quick Look of Sniper Elite 3! However, I'm sad that the (hypothetical) masthead for this website would be nine white dudes with varying amounts of stubble. I understand that with Ryan passing and Vinny and Patrick leaving SF, there's an urgent need to put more people in the office, a need for more people for videos, podcasts, and live events, and that Dan and Jason are talented dudes who will fill those roles well. However, this site's generally a cool, progressive place, and it would have been refreshing to get some more diverse perspectives. It would have been an encouraging sign! I think that, again, a masthead that is nine white dudes is an actual, real-ass problem that needs to be addressed. My sincere hope is that expansion continues, rapidly, and that they take a good hard look at the makeup of the site when they're doing additional hiring. And today, a lot of people expressed that same disappointment and expectation. And, since they were (for the most part) women, they did so with the one-thousand percent justified anger that comes from being ceaselessly passed over and belittled for daring to have opinions. And, again, since they were (for the most part) women, some real fucking monsters attacked them. I know that plenty of people that call themselves part of the GB community have said "They came from Reddit/4Chan" or "Those people don't speak for me!". That's true, and that's fine. Those assholes don't come from this website, and they don't speak for us. But we need to do a better job of speaking up for ourselves. And not against criticism. Against hatred. We all need to do better, myself included.

@octaslash: Well put, exactly my thoughts on the situation.

Again for me this discussion matters more for the future of the site than these two hires. I think Dan and Jason seem like great fits, and I'm excited to see what they will bring. I just hope that as the site grows it can start to include more diverse voices (both in a critical and entertainment perspective). It shouldn't all be on Patrick's shoulders, but he has openly made a commitment to bringing those voices in with some sort of a freelancer budget or something. My hope is they'd be able to bring on a more-diverse set of guests and contributors for different kinds of podcasts, or videos, or articles, or livestreams. They can drag Brad Muir out for quick looks every once in a while, maybe they could do that for other people (especially if they could get Anna Kipnis, she's super cool) I think Zoe Quinn is really super awesome! She's working on like three games at once, maybe it'd be possible to do some video around one of her projects-in-production or something. Idk. I know all that is way easier said than done, but I think it'd be awesome and the gb crew have kinda talked about stuff like that for a while. Idk if this is constructive or not, but it's my thoughts on the issue (other than the anger about the awful things being said at Leigh Alexander, Zoe, and others).

Giant Bomb can't control what happens on Twitter, Reddit, or anywhere else that isn't this site, save perhaps have influence on other CBSi websites. What they can do, however, is work to ensure that Giant Bomb itself is a safer place for everyone and strongly discourage people from acting like total shitboxes, particularly when it comes to the issues that have come up today. Not just in the sense of moderators cracking down on certain behaviors, but in the staff doing better to present Giant Bomb as an accepting place. Tell the shitboxes that their antics aren't welcome here and discourage them from associating themselves with this website. It won't clean up Twitter, but it would do a lot for Giant Bomb itself.

As long as Jeff hired the best people for the positions available, there really is no problem there with the actual hiring practices themselves. It is sad that there is such a gender discrepancy in the biz, both when making games and talking about them, but it is not up to Jeff, or Giant Bomb, or CBSi to rectify that discrepancy. (In my opinion, it is just something that will correct itself naturally, in time.) Instead, they have the responsibility of providing the best service possible, and I have all the confidence in the world that Dan and Jason were picked because they were the best options who stepped forward to meet that goal.

Of course, people are free to say with they like, WITHIN REASON. Those on twitter questioning the hiring are certainly within their right to do so. And I think given the nature of the website and community, many are compelled to defend it. Someone is criticizing a thing we love? We respond.

However, there is a line that was crossed by many people. And, as some on the staff have said, THEY DO NOT REPRESENT THE SITE OR COMMUNITY. In fact, they are not part of this community at all. Maybe they have accounts, maybe they even subscribe. But they certainly do not subscribe to the ideals of Giant Bomb. This site is all about video games, delivered with good-natured fun and humor, often stupid and inane. Ultimately, it creates happiness, not the opposite.

Maybe those who lashed out were defending the site. But they went too far. Threats of rape and death are (quite obviously I feel) not welcome here, let alone SOCIETY IN GENERAL. We, the real members of the community who want to keep this place free from hate and vitriol have to do our best to help these people see the error of their ways. If you see abuse, report it. Maybe say something, but do not attack in turn. We need to encourage polite discourse, especially when it comes to serious issues such as these, and we need to discourage abuse, violence, threats, sexism, and hate at every turn. I want to make Giant Bomb better.

Especially this week, but also every week, let's try to make Ryan proud.

This is a real missed opportunity on their part. Not one of filling some sort of quota but one of hiring someone who would've brought actual diversity to the content of the site. I like Dan just fine and i don't know anything about Jason other than what he said in the bombcast yesterday but first impressions are that they hired people who like wrestling and fighting games. It sounds a bit familiar and boring to be honest.

This absolutely has to be the priority for the site. Diversify content and opinions.

I do agree that Dan was a safe choice and it is kind of shitty to throw an application notice out there when you've already had a hire in mind. But what we don't know is how much wiggle room there is for them to make a risky choice. How tight of a leash does CBSi have of GB's budget and expenses? Did it really take the death of a colleague for them to get the funds necessary for a new hire? Did youtube likes play a factor in this? Did they need to hire someone they knew wouldn't get harrassed by youtube gremlins to build up their channel?

Maybe someone can answer these questions? *looks at Rorie*

It's good to see Jeff actively denouncing the shitebags. I grow so tired of the shitebags.

@underattack86: It happened on twitter and on various forums around the internet. I won't link to any of them because it only serves to highlight those people rather than denounce them as a whole. No matter your opinion on who they hired and who they didn't you don't deserve to be attacked. It also doesn't matter if it didn't happen here on GB, if they think this site is some place they can be "safe" then we have a problem.

Also I haven't seen many people attacking Jason or Dan, in fact some are going out of their way to say they like Dan and Jason. The problem is GB has become a source of questioning the lack of diversity and differing voices in the industry and yet they go and hire similar voices to their own. It's criticism of saying one thing but doing another, not of the hires themselves.

Dan and Jason are good fits (I do have issues with Dan's perceived one-dimensionality, but by now that's beside the point). I understand that Giant Bomb knows a lot of people and hired based on who they thought would be the best for the job, not because they favor the same gender or color or sexuality.

This, however, means that the perspective at Giant Bomb is limited. Everyone loves Giant Bomb, or at least it seems that way. That's why minority writers are upset when they don't see themselves represented. It's so easy to add a new voice to the mix and have it be respected, at least by the staff if not by vile sexists on the internet. While there is a familial aspect to Giant Bomb, it's one that can be adapted and updated with new voices. You had the original four of Jeff, Brad, Ryan, and Vinny, but adding Patrick and Drew and Alexis and Dave and Rorie and everybody didn't drag Giant Bomb down, it just expanded the voice. We still get the same familial attitude that we always got, but with a broader range.

This same thing is seen on Bombin' the A.M and at special events. Creators and journalists have been able to show up on Giant Bomb and be respected by its staff. Some guests become recurring, like in the case of Dave Lang and John Drake (I associate them as much with GB content as their own stuff by now). Others may have shown up only once or twice, but they're not excluded. Only rarely, very, very rarely, have I seen a guest at Giant Bomb and thought they didn't fit. And by didn't fit I mean there was something about them I genuinely didn't like, like being mean or self-important. Because 99% of the time, anyone who shows up at Giant Bomb is treated well and, eventually and with enough appearances, develops their own voice in Giant Bomb. Giant Bomb gets to keep its theme while expanding its voice. (By the way, did you ever see Brad Shoemaker's video reviews from ten years ago? You would have argued he "didn't fit" then.)

I don't totally know who applied, and I don't know who the true "best fit" was. There are women writers I'd love to see on Giant Bomb (Cara Ellison, Jenn Frank) and other women writers who I think are kind of garbage, not because they're women but because of their work and attitudes. The whole of the games industry, and general tech industry, does have a big diversity problem and the only way to fix it is to take risks. Dan Ryckert is a good fit for Giant Bomb, but he's also an obvious pick. A minority choice could lend new insights without breaking tone. One of my favorite things about Giant Bomb is its ability to confront real issues in calm and thoughtful ways. Giant Bomb doesn't promote itself as a social justice site, it's a video game site that talks about social justice when it's appropriate to do so. It's not looking to raise Hell, but it will raise Hell when the context is appropriate. There are women writers who write "TURBOFEMINIST" in their twitter abouts and go looking for problems. Others don't look for trouble but are more than prepared when they find it. That's the attitude of Giant Bomb and it's the attitude I'd want out of any new hire.

When people get mad at Giant Bomb, they don't get mad at Giant Bomb. They're mad at the overall state of the industry, and the one website that is objectively(notobjectively) the best in the world isn't curbing a trend. Giant Bomb is NOT IGN, it's NOT Kotaku, it's this magical little wonderland where editors care for each other and care for guests and never highlight sexism. It's where Ryan drops the other f-bomb on a Lantern Run livestream and doesn't kick and scream and refuse to apologize for months, but immediately recognizes his mistake and writes a lengthy apology. The fact is that those disappointed in the new hires aren't necessarily disappointed in Dan and Justin, nor are they condemning Giant Bomb, but they love this site enough to want to see it grow. And that's what y'all have been talking about for so long, haven't you? Growth, not change.

A lot of people who "defend" the site by using "social justice warrior" as an insult and still call women gendered insults love the site, too. They're just scared that the site will change and not grow. They're the same people who hate Gone Home. It's not that the game is bad, it's the idea of the game changing what they already like. That somehow Gone Home will get so big and popular that they don't have Dark Souls anymore. That minorities at Giant Bomb will rant and complain and bring up important issues and somehow that takes away dumb hilarious email beef on the Bombcast.

Trust me, I was listening to this podcast when it was called something else and Bob Colayco and Carrie Gouskos were on it. It was still pretty good.

Well, to paraphrase my post in the other thread:

What's more likely is that someone at CBSi HR (or whoever they have outsourced their recruitment to) sifts through the applications until he or she finds X number or so high potentials (people who fit the requirements as set out by Jeff and maybe edited by CBSi management), forwards that list to CBSi managment and puts away the rest.

Then CBSi sees the list and checks whether HR employee X has done his or her job, and then either rejects it (which puts us back at square one), or gives their approval, throws out some names and forwards the new, edited list of names to Jeff.

Jeff receives a list in his inbox, mutters "What the hell are those a**holes thinking?", throws out some duds and sends that list back to CBSi managment, until a few are left to be called in for an interview.

And the people who didn't make the initial cut at step one? Shift-Delete.

This, from talking with recruiters, is sadly how recruiting at a major company works. It's nothing personal, it's matching the qualifications of the employee to the requirements set out by the employer.

The question isn't whether the right person got the job (because, if you're going purely by qualifications and requirements, you always will), but whether this process allows for minorities to compete on equal footing with the majority, especially when you want to diversify (as Jeff has stated in the past). One side sees the discrepancy, and accuses them of being hypocrites and liars. The other side ignores the struggle for representation minorities have to endure, claims that all is right with the world and accuses the other side of being whiners and much worse.

While it's easy to say the best person got the job, and in a way correct, it ignores the practicalities of reality (you can't go through thousands of applications!) and sadly glosses over the inherent unfairness in the system.

What the fuck. Somebody takes the brave step to put themselves out there in a vulnerable position and say "hey, I see this all the time, it does exist, and it makes me sad/afraid to contribute" and A GUY WHOSE AVATAR IS A PICTURE OF HIM GRABBING HIS JUNK tells him/her to quite down? Moderation my ass.

Hey guy, marginalizing half the population IS a serious problem unless you aren't in that half and don't care about what happens to them. 48% of gamers (almost half) are women, according to the ESA, so it's not crazy to think that there might be a woman or two that knows how to play Street Fighter AND wants to write about that. A person is not "playing the victim" when they are attacked by hundreds of people, calling them all sorts of foul names, for expressing DISSAPOINTMENT that increased diversity in this field has once again been denied.

You, your baseless aggression, and your joyful embrace of ignorance are emblematic of everything wrong with this community. Minority or not, you need to go.

I don't really get the arguments against these guys at all and the fact that they are an experienced team with a relationship with Jeff means they can easily slide into position.

GB has been understaffed for a long time you can see it clearly with Vinny and Drew switching during the UPF shows. So with Vinny gone these guys just made up the perfect puzzle piece to fix the GB jigsaw. They were the right piece at the right time and I'm sure if there was a minority twofer that could fill this positions it would have happened.

Now for diversity sake I think they should branch out on the interns and maybe focus on giving someone outside of the white male majority some experience in the industry.

It really is that week -- I can't believe it has almost already been a year.

I just hope the whole issue on Twitter and here manages to miraculously come to some sort of resolution by Thursday, for the sake of everyone involved in this difficult time, considering the last year.

I sincerely hope you find a reason to stick around. Know, if it's any comfort at all, that you have friends here who will relentlessly defend your ability to speak your mind on these forums. Hopefully, the silently positive elements of this mostly-positive community also have it in themselves to act openly when they see exclusionary or hard-headed rhetoric dominating these discussions. It's something I truly believe we can do, to enable access for anyone who needs the incentive to participate.

@equitasinvictus said:

Sadly, with Patrick's dad's passing two years ago, and Ryan last year, I'm starting to think this is a fucking curse.

@pyrodactyl: Patrick's interests are often VERY different from the rest of the staff and he meshes perfectly. That argument doesn't hold water. Also, you're slandering the staff when you say that anyone who thinks they are capable of making a progressive or pro-diversity choice is fooling themselves.

This controversy isn't something we need right now and I have a bad feeling this whole shitstorm might over shadow the one year annaveresry of Ryan's passing which would be a huge shame and shouldn't be allowed to happen.

One more thing. I barely comment on the site, period, and I have been a member since '09, and I love the site. But throughout the years I have been a little afraid to post occasionally, due to not knowing enough, or thinking anonymous internet person will dislike me if I have a different opinion. For example, I know when i first joined I literally thought Dave was Alex Navarro, I posted something about that, and got taken to task on it. I honestly think the community has grown up a bit throughout the years and gotten a bit better, but today has shown we can do better. Sure most of the terrible things written today towards others, may have primarily come from outsiders, but not all of it. We should not simply ignore it and say, oh it's only a small portion of the community, or it's Reddit, or 4Chan. We need to do a better job of policing ourselves, and following the golden rule of not being a jerk. After all we are having people saying they are done with Giantbomb after this because of the way people are acting.

Primarily what has been said against Giantbomb has been criticisms, which are fine, some may have gone too far, but the backlash against it is just too much. I know when I was young and had my dad read my papers I wrote for school, he would, figuratively, tear them to shreds. He pointed out grammatical mistakes, sentences that made no sense, spelling errors, and much more, as a result I was angry and I was upset because I felt like he was personally attacking me. Now I obviously know he wasn't, he only did that because he wanted the best out of me. So maybe it's the internet, maybe it's twitter, maybe we all need to grow up a little, but it seems like very few people can take criticism any more, whether it be in the form of a tweet, forum post, or a "click-baity" article.

That's just my two cents. Feel free to take me to task, call me an asshole, whatever you want, but try to be good to one another.

It's "relatively pleasant," sure, but the unpleasantness does have an awful tendency to pop up in the same circumstances. Zoe Quinn's Top 10 list from last year, people's reactions to Patrick's articles about gender and representation, practically every time a woman appeared on the E3 streams, etc. We do what we can to ban and moderate people who are awful on this site but today we have reached this point:

I'm sure that the majority of people doing this are being drawn into all this drama from other sites, but that's not at all an excuse to not take a good long look at ourselves and how we handle these kind of discussions in the future.

Personally I was pretty offended by some of the things Leigh said, and that was before the harassment even really started. She deleted those tweets and took a much more positive approach later on though (whether this was genuinely because she felt bad about them or because she wanted to stem the backlash is anybody's guess I suppose). I don't deny that one side escalated things much further than the other. However some people seem to be portraying this as a peaceful group of feminists quietly voicing their disappointment, who were suddenly threatened and insulted without provocation. When really the people voicing their disappointment were far more negative and insulting than the situation called for right off the bat.

@pr1mus: Aye, I'm not Cara's biggest fan but I for sure think she would be a way more invigorating hire choice than Dan or Jason (no offence to either of them). Guess Jeff or whoever didn't see it that way though. Ah well.

Free speech is for public places and is a protection against the government. A privately owned place, like a restaurant or a forum such as this one, can show you the door if you're belligerent.

No, it is a thread for feedback. If you have something to say to the staff, feel free to say it here. Rorie has been very good about responding here, and I applaud his efforts for that.

I find this relevant:

All I can say is that anyone who throws out transgender slurs is unacceptable, women deserve more of a place in gaming, and we shouldn't get mad at them for voicing their concerns, but we also shouldn't get mad at Giant Bomb for just hiring the people they wanted for the site because they should be allowed to do what they think is best.

I have to log off for the evening but I wanted to commend @rorie for stating a position on this issue and doing what he can to keep things nice around here. Between him and @patrickklepek, whose position on these issues is unimpeachable, I feel like the site is moving in the right direction. Still. Everybody knows that if this site is a family then Jeff is the Dad and things are at a point here where Dad needs to step in and throw down, one way or the other. His continued silence on issues like this is not helping this community.

@rorie: Just a question to you as a moderator are the threads involving gender equality and more minority representations the harshest these forums get? It seems like it brings out the worst people and judging by ridiculous hate Anita S. still gets today for something relatively innocent makes me jaded that the internet will never get better.

It will get better, but I have a feeling this weird hate is going to spike before it starts to go away.

Dammit @octaslash, I really didn't want to see a bigger image of his junk! It was already pretty hard before! ...Jeezus!

This is, for me, the part that I think allowed the situation to get out of hand. Those people are either very passionate about their negative beliefs or are very into starting fires on the internet. They are known quantities in the Giant Bomb community. I'm sure more than a few have gotten used to being moderated in the past. Not only do they exist, but they consider themselves fervent members of this community as much as the more acceptable members are.

This is not to say they are the vocal majority. They just happen to be VERY vocal to the point where they dominate the discourse much in the way the flagrant talking heads masquerading as political pundits do on cable news networks. I think it is somewhat idealistic to assume such people aren't going to let their opinions be heard in a scenario such as this where the site kind of all but invited criticism for the new hires not fitting in with opinions expressed by their editorial staff. But again, this in no way excuses such malicious attacks. Just an observation.

It's worth noting that Leigh has taken a MOUNTAIN of shit from people over things she said while drunk on the podcast years ago. I also felt uncomfortable of the insinuation that maybe people who worked for Giant Bomb didn't want a women working for them. But at the very least I understand her circumstance. She's a women who appeared on the site, and was pretty viciously attacked by the community for a long time. Even still. That doesn't mean she can just slander Giant Bomb employees, but I'm very willing to forgive the transgression.

@tadthuggish: This isn't a thread to discuss the political opinions of people on other sites.

@rorie: people like this underAttack person are the perfect example of the toxic element within this community. They are not the only one and they need to be weeded out.

"Except this clearly isn't a "serious issue" in any sense. America is 63% white and most gamers are men. Most experienced games journalists are men. A videogames journalism business, in America, needs to hire two new people. Why are you upset that they hire two white men? It was extremely likely they would. How is this a problem?

The pot isn't "boiling over", what's boiling over is the clickbaiting hysteria of certain feminist bloggers who will gladly drag Giant Bomb's name through the mud for a chance to play the victim. Naming no names."

That mentality hiding beneath the somewhat politeness of this post is the exact same as those Reddit and 4Chan posters. And it needs to be made clear that this is not welcome in this community.

I think Jeff's position is pretty clear, don't be a shit bag and treat ladies nice, just like Ryan Davis would want us to. And as for hiring, we can safely assume he hired who he felt was most qualified.

And it should be noted that I don't see the people who were passed over complaining about not being hired. Its third parties that are complaining on what they perceive is an issue.