Commentary on GB Hiring

@rorie: I had not seen your final post on the previous thread explaining why it was being locked. I've edited my post and apologized for writing it, but allow me to apologize directly to you for having posted without reading and for the insinuation in that post. I'm completely in the wrong here. Sorry about that.

I appreciate that you've taken the initiative to separate this out into two distinct threads, Rorie. Thanks.

I don't have a whole lot to add that hasn't been said but I'd like to thank the guys for speaking out publicly against the aggressive backlash. You can never completely stop hateful or trouble-seeking people from coming to your site (it's a free place after all), but you can make it clear that they won't be welcomed in this community with an attitude problem like that.

This site needs a second Rorie. The guy does his best to interact with the community and he does it more than any other staff member ever has but he's still just one guy and he has other responsibilities.

Although maybe now is not the time to be telling GB that it needs to hire someone new.

@truthtellah said:

You might have missed some of the deleted tweets.

A significant part of what I like about Giant Bomb is that the site as a whole and the people running things have always seemed willing to take risks. I'm sure part of that came as a result of the site's structure and also out of necessity since the staff has always been fairly small, but I feel that it's also part of the character of the site and the people involved. I think it's resulted in a progressive take on covering games that has been at the leading edge, pushing in directions that I hoped others would follow.

That having been said I was very hopeful during the hiring process that the site would reach out and take a chance, give a bigger platform to someone who hadn't had access to it before. I have no doubt about the qualifications of the people that have been hired and as we get to know them I'm sure we'll explore new territory based on their tastes that have yet to be explored by the site, but I can't help feeling that they were the safe pick and I'm a bit disappointed not to see Giant Bomb stretch it's wings a little farther and try to fly higher into the sun.

That's what I'm talking about when I say no one in this argument was actually infromed about giant bomb. To put it bluntly, Maddy didn't have the qualifications. I'm sure she's great at her job but the #1 criteria for the editorial hire was:

• Has good chemistry with the staff

People who fill the most important criteria for the job were mostly white dudes. That's an industry problem, not a giant bomb problem. And when I say mostly, I mean all if we exclude people who wouldn't take the job or didn't have the necessary experience and on screen presence.

Not really. They're lashing out after having smelled the shit that the more toxic parts of Giant Bomb produced. Have you ever seen a comment section on this website with any content involving Leigh Alexander? It's fucking disgusting.

Reposting from the other thread:

My problem with the outcry from people who wants diversity on Giant Bomb is that they limit the meaning of the word 'diversity' to only be about skin color, sexual orientation or gender. In my eyes a modern society should strive to make these things completely irrelevant of anything other than things related to sex or how susceptible you are to sunlight. Equality doesn't mean "hire someone because he/she likes dicks, just to even it out".

I haven't seen much outright hate for the choices here outside of some saying "would have been interesting if it was a girl" or whatever. It seems most of the extreme stuff is coming from outside the house.

@underattack86: @freshbandito: @video_game_king: I posted that without having seen that Rorie made the final post in the old thread explaining why he was locking it. My original post was assuming that all critical conversation was being censored, not just "my agenda". I am completely in the wrong to have posted here without reading to the bottom of the other thread, and I apologize again for doing so. Sorry.

You don't hire an amateur comedian from youtube to host the Tonight Show and you don't hire some inexperienced stranger to fill the shoes left behind by Ryan and Vinny. There is a place for budding new talent to gain experience and test their chops. GB is not that place. I think criticizing GB for hiring experienced and well known people is ignorant of the kind of site that it is and of how important the roles that needed to be filled were. Anyone who didn't think they were gonna hire from their inner circle of veterans were fooling themselves. And unfortunately, the number of veterans who are minorities and/or women are low. But that's an industry issue as a whole and shouldn't be put on the shoulders of a small website like Giantbomb. GB is influential, but small nonetheless. When your crew is that small and every person in that 5-6 man team has a major role to play, diversity should be the last thing you're searching for. Not that they didn't reach out to minorities.

That's the most sensible thing anyone has said, anywhere on the internet, about this whole train-wreck.

I understand why people are upset about the new hires.

It's not that they dislike Dan or Jason, it's that there is this reputation of Giant Bomb as a forward thinking site that sees trends and rises to meet them quickly. They were the first to really nail video game podcasting, the first to jump on video content over text, Patrick has written some really good articles addressing the problems the games industry AND the games journalism industry have with minorities. Patrick's articles especially have created this image of Giant Bomb as the "good guys" who "get it" and despite all of that the best they can do is hire a white guy senior writer who has been mired in the games industry for a decade. It's just kind of boring.

Jeff is always talking about how the older games media folks are being phased out by younger people who start up on YouTube. He's always mentioning how the industry is changing and games journalism is changing... why not take advantage of all the new blood out there and hire someone fresh? Someone who has a more modern perspective on games? In a lot of ways that's what Patrick did for Giant Bomb and it was for the betterment of the site. Still, you can only go so far from "mid thirties white guy games journalist" to "late twenties white guy games journalist."

I sincerely wish that Giant Bomb had hired a woman or a minority or even just someone who hasn't been in the industry so long. Simply because the new perspective would have been so absolutely refreshing. I know that Dan will do a killer job, he always has and his work speaks for itself. I know the things he does for this site will be absolutely great. But there is still that "what if..." question that probably won't ever be answered.

I was thinking the same thing. The whole thing was hyped and it was fun to watch. Even participate on the speculation. But perhaps that made it into a boiling pot of unrealistic expectations, unexpectedly. It wasn't a big deal, really...

Sure turned into one...Even people who had no interest on GB suddenly started calling in the "Giantbomb thing".

I just really, really, REALLY wish people would realize one universal truth to ALL internet arguments: There are fucking idiots on BOTH SIDES of EVERY argument. Doesn't matter what side you're on. Doesn't matter how black and white it might seem. There will always be absolutely abhorrent people that say amazingly horrible shit no matter what is being talked about. And more importantly, just because someone is on "your side", doesn't mean you have to stick up for them and defend them. You feel that Giant Bomb did nothing wrong with hiring the guys that they felt were the best fit? You don't need to stick up for the psychotic dumbfucks that make threats and insults. Think that Giant Bomb should have diversified a bit more and feel a bit let down, thinking that the application process was just a formality? You don't need to defend fucking idiots on twitter that rant about how they're taking a stand against sexism and racism...and then immediately talk about how they hate all members of a certain sex and race.

A LOT of these people don't want to have a discussion. They don't want to have an argument. They just want to keep shouting and shouting until they're the last ones shouting. This is viewed as a "Win" in their minds. Just ignore these idiots and move on. I mean, come on, gang. VIDEO GAMES! Let's have some damn fun.

Dan's dad will provide some diversity to the site - as well as being mature in years, he also seems to hate video games. I look forward to those visits in the same way as I enjoyed his appearances at Game Informer.

I think a positive move going forward would be to establish an internship program at CBSi - if there isn't one there already. It would be a great way of filtering new, young, diverse (or whatever) talent and growing them with an audience.

It' still speculation. Obviously, I'll believe it if you could find that tweet or post that Jeff supposedly made, but without something verifiable like that, it's just hearsay.

Twitter is like an amplifier of stupid and hostility. From everyone. What a terrible terrible service. So many of these dumb controversies start out because of twitter which probably wouldn't have been hostile, rude, or as overblown as it would have with a proper medium for discussion.

The only positive thing that ever comes from twitter is letting people know if somethings going to be late.

Otherwise, its all misinformation, poorly worded arguments that get blown up, or people going "im buying shoes with _____ ha!" fuck you, no one cares.

I hate twitter so damn much. Sorry for my little rant.

I don't want to take any of this out on Dan or Jason, I just find it weird (not sure if that's the best word to describe it) after the many times the lack of female representation in game's press and development has been highlighted in Worth Reading and stuff like that - articles about the fact that there are plenty of qualified and experienced women out there, but who don't get the jobs they apply for, and then having GB open up two positions, both of which are filled by men. We do know that plenty of women, some of whom have appeared as guests on Giant Bomb in the past, applied for the position(s). I'm sure links to articles like that will appear on the site again, but it's gonna be weird if they point fingers at the industry for stuff like this when they themselves have not stood up as an example. I'm sure they have reasons and rationalizations, but doesn't all of them?

@hunter5024: the majority of the truly offensive tweets were from the one side. to be fair i don't think it was many people from here and seemed to be from r/mensrights

White straight male here, who is genuinely excited to see what Dan and Jason will bring to the site. Would I have loved a woman's voice as well? Sure! But I don't think that's the point. I think the point is that there is an unfortunate cancer growing in our beloved community: that we, as a Giant Bomb Community, are "better than that petty shit" in other parts of the internet. That we aren't the vile people of Neogaf or reddit or something like that. But everything the past few months have told me the opposite. That there is a vocally terrible side of this community, spewing some terrible shit at people who want to see change happen. And the rest of us have, myself included, let it grow. I know I personally saw some absolutely horrendous things said in the chat during E3 and didn't say a damn thing. Under fear of getting jumped as well, out of thinking it wasn't my place, whatever one wants to call it. Today, I'm done with that shit. These people who are upset on Twitter may be a little harsh and unfair in their criticisms, sure, but that's their right to say it. And a website like this only grows with critique, refines itself. So any sexist, racist, homophobic garbage I see I'm saying something. It kills me that people like that are on this website I love so damn much. It won't go away until we make it go. And maybe I'm in the minority, maybe the rest of you don't mind it. But to me, people who just spew hate shouldn't be welcome anywhere. Especially not a place I love. That's my two cents.

I disagree with your premise, particularly points 5 and 6 and the conclusion. The fact people here would probably welcome with open arms people like Cara Ellison or Jenn Frank or would go absolutely ape shit if Carrie Gouskos came back to this side of the industry and work for GB invalidates this.

When Leigh Alexander insults the whole community over choices that are entirely out of our control and then later insult the staff directly or Samantha Allen shows absolute disdain at the news of Dan being the new hire (sigh... it's a man, said in a very condescending tone) it is not being hostile towards women to attack their statement. It is being hostile towards a garbage mentality that promotes inequality to fix inequality. I absolutely despise these two women. Not because they are women. Because they are awful at what they do. The same way i despise Ben Kuchera. It has nothing to do at all with their gender.

The truly terrible people who brings this down to that level with the sexist slurs are no more numerous here than anywhere else and will never be gone entirely and are certainly not here in greater number because of a so called culture that has been cultivated by the staff accidentally or otherwise. That tiny minority is unfortunately extremely loud and is magnified by usually being at the center of long reply chains but the reality remains that a majority of people here are not trying to hide from the women's perspective or social commentary in general. They are just more vocal against click bait articles and fake outrage with no merits to them.

@minipato: @pyrodactyl: You do know @smcn said that the person Samantha was supporting, Maddy Myers, was «in terms of writing credentials is as qualified as Dan if not more so»?

this makes the assumption there is no qualified women (or whatever) though.

i do agree that you should never check off things from A list but i don't think most people were making that point.

Both sides have been disgusting today. The internet hate men were of course the worst, but damn if I wasn't disappointed in the people going "OH YEAH? WELL WE DIDN'T WANT TO BE PART OF YOUR SHITTY WEBSITE AND TERRIBLE COMMUNITY ANYWAY!"

@cbk486: +3000 points for Trailer Park Boys references.

And on the same page as a pug puppy picture, too. I already like this thread better.

@thdemn: Yep.

After this incident, I really don't feel welcome here. I used to want to be active on the forums, but that enthusiasm has dwindled with every discussion about sexism. Every rationalization for why things are OK the way they are. I have nothing against the GB staff, including the new hires, and I wish them well. The conversation should be all about how exciting it is to have new hires, and I really wish it could be. But the pot is boiling over on a serious issue, and people refuse to just stay quiet about it. That's good, because it's the only way anything changes.

But...the reactionary backlash here over legitimate issues is frustrating. It's invalidating. It's not even just this particular incident. It's every conversation about discrimination. Every. Single. One. Even the ones I haven't read, the times when I just don't have it in me to read them, because I know exactly how it's going to go. I shouldn't feel drained and sad trying to be part of a community, but that's how it is. I dunno that anyone's gonna care, since I've mostly just been a lurker. But...I've been here, reading. Trying to find a way to speak up multiple times, succeeding only a few. It's been fun. No, wait, it's been the exact opposite of that.

Absolutely. But never reveal the identity of this second person that way no one can complain because no one will know who it is! It's brilliant!

All new hires can have crazy modulated voices and only be silhouettes. I think I'm onto something here.

Good on Rorie for at least making a statement and acknowledging peoples complaints. While I don't think Giantbomb is misogynistic or racist in any way, it would be cool to see other demographics represented on the site.

It's hard to read anything from a sample size of 2, especially when we don't know the context. We don't know how many women/minorities applied. We don't know how good they were.

Also it's unfair to say that GB makes no effort to have women or minority voices on. Bombin' the AM makes a real effort to get female and minority guests, and Alexis (who I believe is hispanic) is featured in a ton of content and works (in part) for GB. These are two hires in an industry that's mostly white dudes. You can't draw many conclusions from 2 hire. If it had been 20 and they were all white dudes it would be a different story.

So I really did not want to comment on any of this, because I hate controversy, but whatever. The one thing that has me confused on this whole thing is how it seems like everyone knows what the hiring process was like at CBSi. Now it's all good to speculate and assume they were looking for x, y, or z, but the fact remains we don't know what they were looking for exactly. We might have an idea from the job postings, but not a clear picture of what else was needed/desired outside of what was posted. I simply assume that Jason and Dan fit exactly what was needed the best and as such they were hired, I would have assumed the same for any person hired for the position.

As far as the horrible stuff people have been saying, well all I have to say to that is we should all be good to one another, and don't be jerks.

were missing the most important question regarding the diversity of the hires here.

do either them play rpgs and wont just shrug them off?

At first I thought this was going to be about Dan and Jason being the new hires, you know people of the community hating on the new guys, but then it turned out to be someone unrelated to the site saying stuff on twitter. I'll never understand why people care about stuff that doesn't directly or indirectly affect them. Doesn't matter who GB hires just as long as any hire continues to make and keep this site awesome.

On the other hand just because someone says something you don't agree with doesn't give you free agency to bash and berate them. It's weird I know but I wish the internet would grow up a little bit.

@pr1mus: This is exactly what I mean about the community being in denial about the problem though. I'm not saying it's the majority, but it's not a "tiny minority" either. If it was a tiny minority, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. It would've been a handful of posts that would've been immediately dismissed and forgotten.

Did you even read what I wrote?

I can rephrase it. By my estimate, criterias for the editorial position were, from most important to least important:

1. Have good chemistry with the GB staff (that means being generaly funny and good at playing of off their dumb jokes)
2. Have good on screen and podcast presence
3. Being good at writing

Lots of experience in the industry was also really important.

So, to sum up, writing credentials weren't gonna help much. They hired Patrick for his writing and news breaking skills, they needed a new figure head for the openned editorial position, not a writer.

@octaslash said:

So that's why we'll never see her on Bombin' the A.M... fuck! She's one of the best (if not the best) video game critic around right now, and we're rejecting her because of a stupid moment on an E3 bombcast 5 years ago!

i hope everyone reads this.

And she co-hosts two podcasts. Doesn't matter, I'm done talking about it.

http://blog.jeffgerstmann.net/post/86458870926/do-you-guys-have-the-new-hires-pretty-much-locked-down

gangstagames asked: Do you guys have the new hires pretty much locked down?

I haven’t been involved much in the producer position, not sure where those guys are at. I have a person in mind, just need to get over the last couple of hurdles.

This was posted on May 21st, well after the May 5th announcement of the job openings on the forums.

Internet detective AWAY~!!

@millionthlayla said:

It really fucking sucks that you feel that way, and I completely understand why you'd feel unwelcome, but I hope you stay a part of the community. The absolute worst thing for the site would for there to be an exodus of decent people.

Give it a month. This will all be forgotten about.

But it's not up to us to determine who's the most qualified..we may have the right to question GB's hiring practices, but ultimately Jeff and Co. are going to do what they think is best for the site.

@splodge said:

Don't even need to wait that long. It's already losing steam.

I have never seen her interact with the GB crew so I can't say how well she meshes with them. I have seen Dan in past guest appearances though. But if she has interacted with them before, then I guess GB did make their decision based off of sex and race?

Wasn't saying that they don't exist. I mean, I haven't heard of many and that is an issue. Lack of exposure and opportunity. But that shouldn't be GB's primary objective when hiring.

Okay, now that that litany of apologies is out of the way (I hope, I hope, I hope) maybe it would be useful to try to clarify the problem that is causing people to feel they have to speak out?

I don't think anybody is mad at Jeff, et al, for hiring Dan and Jason. I don't think anyone thinks Dan and Jason are going to drag down the site, or won't be good at their jobs. People are disappointed in Giant Bomb, and what it represents. Giant Bomb is a big deal. The way it was created, the content it runs, its history, its voice, and overall the way it just consistently KILLS IT and proves there is another way to cover games that isn't just a rehash of what a dozen other sites are doing, all that inspires people. On top of that, all that success in the face of adversity means that Giant Bomb has a pretty high profile, and the video-nature of the sight makes us feel connected to the crew in a way you don't get through outlets that largely do print work.

So you have a site that everyone agrees is doing a great job, and that is staffed by really likable, nice, funny guys, and produces quality content against the grain of their competitors. Their livestreams and podcast draw huge numbers. They have a very loud, very popular platform, so to speak. Then they announce that for the first time in a long time they are hiring new staff. What you have to understand is that everything they have done to this point creates the expectation that they WOULDN'T just hire two more white dudes who are very similar to the existing staff in terms of likes/dislikes/taste, whatever you want to call it. If you are a straight white male who doesn't think about social issues very often (and that isn't meant as a pejorative) you might not understand what a HUGE DEAL it would have been for either of these new hires to be a woman. Or non-white. Or LGBTQ.

Because this is an industry dominated by sameness, and by chasing what's popular, and undeniably by white men. It denies opportunities to anyone who is not a white man frequently, and there is a litany of blogs and editorials that prove that to be true, not the figment of some "feminazi's" imagination. Giant Bomb became such a big thing by being different, by being what the people in charge would insist doesn't work, and by never being satisfied by "good-enough". So when people who love all that about the site see Giant Bomb miss a huge opportunity to get even better and to keep being great, it upsets them. THAT'S the word I've seen most oft repeated on Twitter and in blogs. Upset. Disappointed. Bummed. Nobody hates the site, or the guys. It's just that not all Giant Bomb fans are straight white guys, and those legions of fans would like to see somebody like them ANYWHERE in the industry, but particularly on their favorite site. It would make them feel better about supporting that site, and those guys. And when it doesn't happen, as it never does, we're just...disappointed.

This is the worst attitude tot take. Not even silent dismissal, but the need to vocalize such dismissal.

Yeah, they totally brought slurs and rape threats upon themselves by critiquing our precious tribe.