This is an issue that I continue to find impossible to care about. I also refuse to take ownership over the way that my fellow consumers and the people in the industry act. Oh, people can be jackasses and men can be pigs, you say? Shocking.
She has a point, just a shame it dominated those specific Giant Bomb shows. Also, I am not sure the reaction from the community would've been different if it was a man doing the exact same thing. Interesting though.
She doesnt have a point at all. drunk and annoying is terrible regardless of gender.
You sure about that because I have heard Rory getting fucking wasted and talk like a idiot during some shows. When he does that he get's a very annoying and a high pitch voice, and LOUD. Did people complain? Nope. They laughed on the Internet and thought he was adorable. If Brad Muir would do the same people would NOT start to hate on him.
I'm NOT saying that people hated on Leigh because she was a woman but I think the community over reacted and did so because they could. BUT that does not excuse the way some people chose to vent their opinions about her because that was just straight up horrible in many ways and in a fashion a guy would not get critiqued in. Just look at the Patrick hate. Does he ever hear something sexist being said to him? Nope. Because many don't say such things to other men but for some reason a lot of bad sexist words get flung around when hating on women.
Your comparison is flawed because the internet unanimously loves Brad Muir and Matt Rorie, because they're awesome individuals. Their gender has nothing to do with it.
@jozzy: None of the other drunk people on the bombcast talked about nazis being sexy and then proclaimed everyone that hated them to women hating virgins. She also had two chances to not be terrible, but she came back the next year and screamed over everyone that tried to talked.
Mirror's Edge was a mediocre game that wouldn't be remembered if it didn't have a female lead.
I miss GB before Patrick. The "Video Game website about Video Games" feel has been replaced by judgmental click bait articles that are written to create arguments/page views. I guess it works. Flame baiting must be better than silly videos and long pages.
Patrick Klepek Personal experience, I'm a female professional fighting game player. The amount of misogyny in the community is astounding. At every major I've gone to I've been harassed and invited into the bedroom. Because I carry a fightstick I'm seen as what is lovingly (with a hint of sexism) referred to as a "stick bitch" rather than a serious contender. I've been catcalled, asked to show my tits, and asked to suck a guy off in public. I have the excuse that I'm a lesbian under my belt, but for the most part that just encourages them harder, and that they can cure me.
The amount of sexism in the gaming industry is horrid. It's even worse in the FGC, a community that is split between making it "e-sports" or to avoid being e-sports, because then a major player asking you to suck his dick while you're walking up the stairs or having a major player be sponsored by a porn company would actually be reprehensible rather than acceptable.
and who is that then? Outside of Kayane I can't think of any that place high enough in tournaments to be counted as "professionals". The only other person I can think of is Chocoblanka and she's not exactly great.
why cant women just say "i feel that's sexist and i don't appreciate it" there and then? complaining on the internet is just a way of avoiding confrontation. I feel if you confront it when it happens 99% of the time you will get an apology and it wont happen again...and if it does take it up with management.
It's funny this is such a big deal when women in the middle east aren't even allowed to show their faces outside the home. Maybe some of this energy should be put into fighting for their rights?
She has a point, just a shame it dominated those specific Giant Bomb shows. Also, I am not sure the reaction from the community would've been different if it was a man doing the exact same thing. Interesting though.
She doesnt have a point at all. drunk and annoying is terrible regardless of gender.
What she is implying, is that when man are drunk and obnoxious, you will see it as an incident and don't really change your long term perception of them. With a woman, she is regarded as "that drunk obnoxious bitch". That definitely happened on this site. Like I said, if a man had done the same, we might have felt the same way, but I am no so sure.
The fact is you don't have any other reference point, as you said. "If a man had done the same, we might have felt the same way ..."
Men are often drunk or obnoxious, and are often continually associated with it ALL THE TIME. Mel Gibson is a good example of this. He has gotten drunk a few times, cursed off people, said racist remarks while under the influence, and now he's basically a drunken Grandmaster of the Aussie KKK in societies mind.
If anything, Leigh Alexander is actually trying to set a double standard. Most people have negative associations with people being publicly drunk and being assholes, she's just upset that she was one, and is trying to use the gender card as way of saying it's unfair.
I would never roll my eyes at the cause but I can't help but roll my eyes at the medium. I'm sorry but the comment "These tweets are genuine..." is, is... y'know what, I can't even explain how ridiculous that sounds to me (perhaps someone could explain to what a genuine tweet is and how it's genuineness is verified).
Maybe I'm just getting too old but Tweeting and Facebooking are, in my opinion, a way of saying "I'm too lazy to actually do anything about this but I sure like chiming in with my opinion so, Tweet!" If anything, I have to wonder if this kind of behaviour will actually prolong the issue more than anything else because everyone will read a few tweets, drop a one-liner, pat themselves on the back for being so great, and go back to ignoring the issue because "Hey! I did my part, I made a tweet!".
@Droop said:
Faith is "one of the most memorable protagonists"? I fucking LOVE Mirror's Edge, but come on. That's there is just straight up bullshit.
I agree. Faith is an example of what I'd like to see us move past in order to help move the female protagonist forward. If someone can tell me how she has any more depth than a cardboard cut-out of a strong-willed, independent woman I'm all ears.
I made a statement highlighting sexism and the plight of negative female representation in video gaming on this very website not many months ago (on the Hitman 'nun' trailers) and got attacked vehemently for it. Responses included "got your knickers in a twist, have you?", and something along the lines of "you're making a big deal out of nothing." You know who you are. For attempting to stamp me out and pretend this isn't a problem, you should be ashamed of yourselves. I wasn't going to win that particular battle alone so i stood down, but perhaps an army of supporters can make a difference, and we can change the industry for the better, together. I saw first-hand, and heard from my partner at the time what she had to go through day after day in the workplace and in daily life, just for being a woman, and it made my blood boil. I'm all for this increased awareness - hopefully it can transcend the industry.
So an insightful article about bringing a serious problem within the games industry to light inspires nothing but the worst of the community to bitch and moan about Leigh Alexander? Again? I hope Patrick keeps writing articles like this, but could everyone just stop commenting on them?
Stop walking around with your boobs hanging out if you don't want to be treated as meat. Oh, wait, you weren't specifically doing that? That doesn't matter. Someone of your gender did, so it clearly reflects on you and I need to harass you about it because you aren't stoning people who acted sexist.
The above paragraph obviously wasn't really serious, but it's an extreme example of a similar idea.
I can treat different genders equal and somehow still need to hear how (some) men are obviously sexist. What does this have to do with me? Go bother those specific men about it. If some idiot makes fun of someone because they have red hair (or even for another reason!), should everyone with red hair go on about how some idiot WITH BROWN HAIR acted like a dick?
We benefit just from being men. We are granted opportunities that women aren't. We earn more, we are raped far less, we are harassed less, our bodies are not the topic of political discussion. No one is asking you to feel guilty for this, but it needs to be acknowledged as a fact. Be guilty if you did something wrong, be responsible if you are a mature person.
I read an interview with Kiki Wolfkill, the executive producer of Halo 4 in The Big Issue last week. She actually had the opposite view of this. She brought up how things are changing and how the gaming industry is becoming a viable career path for women. The interview is available online here if anyone's interested.
Of course, things are still clearly wrong. The industry still needs work to become a fully inclusive environment. But things do seem to be changing. Change won't happen overnight, but it is happening. And things like the #1reasonwhy hastag should hopefully help raise awareness and speed the process along.
That's interesting and always nice to hear someone with a positive outlook on things. I think that is where topics like this break for me though. Any time we get news about a sexual equality issue, it is so often portrayed in such a negative fashion that people quickly get defensive. I don't know what the answer to make everyone get along is, but I do think being more positive about the topic might generate more discussion and less dismissiveness/vitriol.
A lot of women feel abused. A lot of men feel confused and frustrated, because - I like to believe - most guys try not to be terrible people. Too often it just gets generalized as an us-versus-them issue.
Great Tweet Patrick. I roll my eyes when people say that women are misrepresented in games, but that's just because I think men are misrepresented as well. I love Nathan Drake, but he's as much of a fantasy as Lara Croft.
On the flipside, the issue this hashtag is representing takes place in the real world, where sexism isn't excusable. Is everyone at least a little sexist? Maybe, I'm sure I am without realizing it, but we can all try to fight it and make this industry a better place for everyone.
Now, I love Mirror's Edge far, far more than the next man, but let's not go crazy. Faith is pretty much as bland as a character comes, female or otherwise. She's designed quite realistically, and dresses from utility rather than titilation, which unfortunately is an exception rather than norm, but come on. She's not memorable, charismatic or even very interesting.
Also I agree with most people that Faith is kind of a stretch saying she's memorable. She was in a game I quite liked and would want to see a sequel, but memorable? Naw, not really. Opinions folks.
She has a point, just a shame it dominated those specific Giant Bomb shows. Also, I am not sure the reaction from the community would've been different if it was a man doing the exact same thing. Interesting though.
She doesnt have a point at all. drunk and annoying is terrible regardless of gender.
You sure about that because I have heard Rory getting fucking wasted and talk like a idiot during some shows. When he does that he get's a very annoying and a high pitch voice, and LOUD. Did people complain? Nope. They laughed on the Internet and thought he was adorable. If Brad Muir would do the same people would NOT start to hate on him.
For the record, drunk Rorie WAS annoying.
@vonFlampanker said:
@Dogma said:
@MEATBALL said:
Straight up - I have no goddamn idea how to deal with this stuff. I feel like I'm being made to feel guilty for things that other people have done and then feel shitty about myself that that's my gut reaction to this sort of thing. I try not to be an awful person.
She has a point, just a shame it dominated those specific Giant Bomb shows. Also, I am not sure the reaction from the community would've been different if it was a man doing the exact same thing. Interesting though.
When Karen has been drunk on camera everyone in the GB chat thinks its hilarious.It's about being incredibly annoying, not being a women.
If it was a man, the community would have been against him just the same.
Is there a problem in the industry? Yes, and it's a shame when people try to jump on the stupid claims and then dismiss the problem entirely.
Also, I'm detecting a bit of prudism and irony in the caption beneath the picture. Who really cares who wrote Mirror's Edge? I don't see a lot of men going "Look at who designed Gears of War, a man!" Patrick, it's just as bad if you elevate women above men.
Yea that caption really rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe it was the surprise in parentheses but to me it kinda felt demeaning. Like the fact that a game with a female protagonist of course was written by a woman, no man would ever be so bold.
Also lets ignore the fact that the uncharted games were headed up and written by a woman.
She must not have heard herself on the bombcast. That shit took annoying to a whole new level.
Leigh herself admits that she was obnoxious. No one is denying that. The point is that event follows her around like a ghost. The point is that there is so much more to her then that one night she got drunk on a live stream and said 775 million dollars. I get annoyed at the crew here sometimes, but I don't hold it against them that they are probably going to blow off Max Payne 3 for GOTY. Much.
The question is, do we hold it against her it because she is a woman, or is it because she was annoying?
Because she was annoying. Twice!
In an ocean of drunk, silly male colleagues she took the price as one of the most annoying persons Ive yet to encounter.
Leigh, making herself a victim when she's clearly not, is counter-productive to this whole campaign.
She has a point, just a shame it dominated those specific Giant Bomb shows. Also, I am not sure the reaction from the community would've been different if it was a man doing the exact same thing. Interesting though.
She doesnt have a point at all. drunk and annoying is terrible regardless of gender.
It's not that she was drunk and annoying (she was), it's this community never let it go. People are still beating her over the head with it to this day.
shes not allowed to get drunk, what bullshit, any female is allowed to get drunk, it just narrows down to her own personality that she lets herself just become so idiotic when shes drunk. try having some genuinely interesting female people on like carrie, kiki wolfkill, amy henning, etc. and youill see that the issues would be specific to her alone.
im sorry, but she was the most fucking obnoxious person in the world on that podcast, and in my opinion, if thats how she gets when drunk, then she shouldnt be on a podcast with that attitude, at least the males that giantbomb had on when they were drunk did give others permission to speak.
they had the UI guy from deadspace on, would have been really interesting to hear him talk, but what do we get, we get her spewing shit like FUCK BOSTON!!, 775 MILLION!!! AND THAT WAS E3!!!, ugh
podcast that ulf anderson and his grin friends were on, would have been really interesting to hear more about their origins, or the game dev scene in sweden, but what do we get again, her spewing shit like U DONT UNDERSTAND KOJIMA MGS4 WAS AMAZING, KOJIMAAA"
call me ignorant/sexist/asshole/fucker whatever, but any podcast/content that she is a part of i will NOT watch, ( and judging from the fact that she still gets posion over her idiotic appearances on the podcast, id imagine im not alone on this) if comments afterward say that she was good on said content then fine,
The "Video Game website about Video Games" feel has been replaced by judgmental click bait articles that are written to create arguments/page views. I guess it works. Flame baiting must be better than silly videos and long pages.
When I think of a strong female character, I think about Kaine from Nier, femShepard, Nariko from Heavenly Sword or the ladies of Uncharted. Faith is not on that list because she has little personality - her design is striking and memorable, but so is Gordon Freeman's and Gordon's only got an itsy-bitsy less character in him.
Hell, when I think of a female personality in the industry, I don't think about Rhianna Pratchett, because she's not a very good writer (apart from Heavenly Sword). I'm more keen on thinking of Emily Ridgway, who was the sound director behind BioShock, Brutal Legend and the Double Fine XBLA games. Or Amy Henning. Or Corinne Yu. Or Kim Swift.
But that's ultimately beside the point, since I agree with the initiative in overall. When I read stuff like UrsulaV's tweet, I puke in my mouth a little. And it's not about white knighting - in-jokes exist, but if someone notes shit like that under such circumstances, it's no longer an in-joke.
@jozzy said:
@CaptStickybeard said:
Oh.
She has a point, just a shame it dominated those specific Giant Bomb shows. Also, I am not sure the reaction from the community would've been different if it was a man doing the exact same thing. Interesting though.
I do remember that this community teared into resident cunt Tom McShea as much as it did into Leigh after she basically insulted the people who worked on Twisted Metal.
It's ultimately hard to tell without sounding biased, but no, I don't think her sex matters in this situation. I don't see people hating on Veronica Belmont after her appearance on Tested's charity podcast (although I may be wrong), probably because she behaved like a normal human being and didn't try to flaunt her cred as a gamer-gurl. Which is kinda funny when mentioned, because Leigh did point out many times that she's a woman when she was criticized, but it didn't stop her from writing a pretty good, actually, piece on the stupidity of the term "girl geek".
Besides, Leigh fucked up one podcast, she was invited to another and then turned her appearance into a total clusterfuck. Everyone in that room was visibly annoyed. She knew she messed up the first time, she apologized, some people accepted it, some people continued to be cunts, she threw a justified fit, appeared on another podcast and then proved that she didn't learn a lesson from the last time and now she's hiding behind her gender.
She has a point, just a shame it dominated those specific Giant Bomb shows. Also, I am not sure the reaction from the community would've been different if it was a man doing the exact same thing. Interesting though.
She doesnt have a point at all. drunk and annoying is terrible regardless of gender.
Just to be clear.
This is great...
but Leigh Alexander is a "bitch", right?
I'm not interested in defending her actions because it's been talked to death. Was she annoying? Sure. Hell, I disagree with Leigh on a lot of stuff. But that doesn't give people the right to have the reaction that she did. I'm not sure if you were on this site after this podcast happened but it was embarrassing and disgusting. I have no problem with people poking fun or making jokes about it because hey, it was funny. But the amount of vitriolic hatred that she got from people here was absolutely disgusting.
We benefit just from being men. We are granted opportunities that women aren't. We earn more, we are raped far less, we are harassed less, our bodies are not the topic of political discussion. No one is asking you to feel guilty for this, but it needs to be acknowledged as a fact. Be guilty if you did something wrong, be responsible if you are a mature person.
I'd love to, but the constant bitching (not specifically this article) about what people I share a gender with said halfway across the world gets on my nerves after a while.
You sure about that because I have heard Rory getting fucking wasted and talk like a idiot during some shows. When he does that he get's a very annoying and a high pitch voice, and LOUD. Did people complain? Nope. They laughed on the Internet and thought he was adorable. If Brad Muir would do the same people would NOT start to hate on him.
The difference is apparent even in your post. Rory has appeared drunk, but he has always been a laughable drunk, it wasn't annoying, it was kinda cute. Alexander has appeared drunk, and was loud, obnoxious and disruptive, not cute. If Rory was screaming over people, cutting people off, and stumbling over in the middle of a Happy Hour to go hug Will Smith when he entered the room, people would have said he was also an annoying and obnoxious drunk. Actually, maybe not, because he's Rory. But that's really an exception, not the rule.
Hey Dave and Alexis, blocking the sexist assholes that pop up in the comments section of articles like these is the reason we need an Ignore button. Thanks!
As you said, the saddest thing is the same as always responses to articles like this in the comments. Either "it's not really that big a problem" or "that's just how it is, it's a boys club" or "men have it hard too at times!" As if any of that, even if true, would mitigate the problems noted or otherwise reduce the need for change. Even if that's how it is, we still can act as a community to make things better.
Women used to be grossly underrepresented in my industry a few decades ago, and sexism was rampant, until there was a concerted effort to change things. Sure, it was mostly an image thing so they didn't look bad having an all-white, all-male, sexually harassment club going on, but it shows these things can be changed.
And it ends up for the better for us all - more women means a bigger variety of games appealing to a wider audience. Better female characters. Stories that contain a realistic female perspective. Games that might actually get your non-game playing significant other interested, which seems to be a common complaint on the Internet.
@patrickklepek: What exactly made Faith such a memorable character? Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Mirror's Edge, but characters and plot was not that games strong suit. Seriously man, thanks a lot for being a condescending douche in that caption.
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