GiantBomb ladies, are we overreacting to Quiet in MGS V?

Sorry...

You mean realistic like Vamp's nanomachines. Or The Sorrow?

On a side note, it's nice to actually hear females sound off on this sort of thing. For once.

I tried!

@artelinarose: And your replies were completely fair and reasonable. I guess everyone forgot about naked Raiden.

Is the Vamp one from MGS4? Because I haven't played that. Anyway, if something seems batshit insane in a Kojima game, it's usually because he wants it that way. It would make more sense if you picked something he explained to death that still didn't make any sense and was wildly unrealistic. (Vamp may be that, but again, haven't played 4.)

Vamp is also in MGS2. He's the... well, the vampire guy. And that's precisely what was wrong with MGS4, because Kojima tries to explain EEVEEERYTHIIIIIING... which can basically be summed up in one word:

Nanomachines.

Fortunately we had Metal Gear Rising to come along and help expand on the explanation with:

Nanomachines, son.

I'm aware of that. I was just assuming that nanomachines come into play in Guns of the Patriots.

@yummylee: so the big reveal will obviously be that the nanomachines themselves are super sexist.

Soooo glad you made this point, as that is the exact weird little dilemma that I always get caught on when pondering these things.

In the gender equality utopia that we're striving for, shouldn't what anyone wears (fictional or otherwise) just be okay and people not be judged by their clothes (or lack thereof)? I absolutely understand the hesitance about female depictions solely meant to be oogled, but at the same time, when a real woman dresses just like this character should she then receive the same criticism?

I know a few girls who dress similarly (although really only at shows/clubs and thankfully without all the weapons) and they would probably be really pissed off if someone said they were perpetuating sexist stereotypes. It's their choice, and they're just into torn fishnets and corsets and stuff. But then if a man were to draw one of them, and someone didn't know it was based on a real woman, he could be considered sexist. I wonder if the reaction to this character would have been different if Kojima was female.

Maybe we're just not there yet as humanity to be able to grapple with these complex contradictions as we try to move toward a greater moral standard. People are striving to help others, which is good, but the general idea that a showing woman's body is somehow inherently disempowering sets up a pretty backward standard and sort of seems like the opposite of women's liberation in general. Fuck... I don't know.

I know these games aren't supposed to be realistic, like at all, but even here this shit is stupid, let me elaborate....

1. She's a sniper, wouldn't even a little bit of camo make more sense?
2. Game seems to be set in a desert, she's going to get real bad sunburn.
3. Wearing a thong out into combat in 100 degree weather cannot be comfortable.
4. You're just going to sit there and tell me that outfit is perfectly good for crawling and hiding in a rocky desert?
5. She's not even wearing sunglasses, there's gotta be awful glare out in the desert...
6. c'mon kojima-son!

I'm willing to bet that if you asked even the horniest 13 year old to draw a female sniper in desert storm it would make more sense than this design. However, this is kojima's vision and he should be allowed to express himself however he wants, such is life.

@vinny_says said:

Yes, assumptions.

I dunno about that. Nanomachines have been pretty equal-opportunity in dictating the actions and motivations and explaining away all sorts of magical nonsense for characters.

It's already known that she's been genetically enhanced to have chameleon-like skin. She doesn't need to wear camo because her skin is camo.

Feminists who would shame women for wearing what they want are either an extreme minority or they don't exist. The point is: women are not choosing freely to dress in this way in video games. They are designed by men, these women almost always conform to patriarchal ideal types of what women "should" look like, and when there is a conflict between practicality and revealing clothing, these women characters will always be in a bikini over armour.

The vast majority of feminism is sex-positive, and is supportive of the rights of erotic dancers, sex workers etc. This does not preclude a criticism of a system in which women's bodies are commodified and exploited.

Why wear the bikini, or the denier tights then? It's almost as if they started with the character design and created a post-hoc reason for her to be dressed in a ridiculous fashion.

Are you people offended by girls on the beach? Did the west just turn into the Middle East?

I think the outfit fits her character. She brings the essential things that she needs on the battlefield. Keeping her light and mobile. Ammo pouches, knife, some type of grenades, sidearm, the sleeve on her left arm is used to protect her arm when she holds the rifle while laying down. The stocking either got ripped while she was tortured or when she was moving over the rugged desert terrain. I don't know where, but it was suggested that she shows a lot of skin because she can make it change color and blend with the surroundings. Nanomachines.

@joshwent:

Well, all my friends are feminists (how can you not be when you're a woman? Idk) but not those weird rad fems that usually create a bad name for feminists. They (and I) love showing skin. It's liberating to dress however we want. But the thing is, we want to show off on our terms, not at the behest of someone else. What's often the issue is that these scantily clad characters are usually made by men, for men.

I wear less clothing sometimes for a multitude of reasons. I might take stuff off if it's too damn hot outside. I might do it to impress other women since I'm only interested in women. Or I'll do it just because I friggin' want to. In the end, I'm doing it for myself and not for another person.

Any day now we'll see the game where the man is coincidentally semi-naked because Canonical Reasons. Maybe at console launch. Any day now.

@apocalybra said:

now is my chance to finally add a picture with popcorn for the first time ! that old joke you know...

so, anyone wants some ? no ? fine, more for me.

Please, just leave. You're being obnoxious.

Yup cant wait for more Nanomachines nonsense in MGS V.

nanomachines midichlorians, baby

this thread sunk a long time ago, just let it go

@martyarf said:

Any day now we'll see the game where the man is coincidentally semi-naked because Canonical Reasons. Maybe at console launch. Any day now.

In Saints Row IV, I ran around as a naked dude for a good ten minutes. It was part of the story.

And again, the section in MGS 2 where you're completely naked. Also canon.

@strangestories: Why in your humble opinion, am I the douche here when this kind of topic doesn't deserve a drop of seriousness ? your problem is that you are taking this thing too seriously. Don't tell me to fuck off until this website will be called giantstrangestoriesbomb. Obviously now I am not wondering anymore why people ask for this to be locked, because people like you is firing up this thing, when at the end of the day, all of this will go nowhere.

Edit

Almost forgot, it's a public website so better mind your own business, fight with others like you. You are not getting any other reply from me, kudos to you.

I don't want to help the things that don't have a problem at all, that's the point.

Oh, cool, a thread asking for some duderettes' opinions on this...

*looks at actual resulting thread*

...

Wow two threads about this, really? You people need less time on your hands.

@truthtellah: If anything, this thread has reinforced my idea of who to ignore on the forums.

Way to ruin a potentially valuable thread, dipshits.

Er, I as going to post, but I hadn't realized the absolute quagmire this thread has become. Still, here goes...

My 2 cents. Kojimi's style in MGS games, especially where females and their clothes (or lack thereof) are concerned, has always been a bit pervy to me. But that's his thing and he has a very specific vision that he is trying to create, so I view it as just a small part of all the crazy shit that he puts into every game he makes.

Yes it's ridiculous. But I have never taken any character or any character design of Kojima's seriously. They're all whack-a-doodle. The ladies just have the unfortunate side effect of being scantily clad in a lot of cases, while the guys tend to look ridiculous but also kind of cool and generally clothed from toes to neck. Yes there is that one time that guy was naked (for story purposes, not just because tits look nice which seems to be why the ladies get to show more skin) so I get that there are exceptions to the norm. The norm, however, is for the males to be cool and pretty much dressed while the ladies can look cool but also have to show their bits and pieces a lot more for no real reason other than the designer designed them that way.

Again, I don't even care about this case. It seems to fit in with how this universe works. Of course this is just based on my observations from watching my husband play through 1-4 and what I know of Kojima and his proclivities as a designer. I mean, I suppose you can complain about it if you wish, it is a pretty silly design when you logically look at it, but I think we can throw logic out the window and off a 200 ft cliff where Kojima and his games are concerned.

@jadegl: I don't think people are being fair, he did after all put Meryl and Sniper Wolf in the series. In MGS4 Meryl especially is far from your typical sexed up vixen.

I also hate that this is something people feel the need to suddenly get in a kerfluffle about. (not you, just this forum and the originator - the random Halo person)

edit: And some people need to get out more. If I go out on a Friday night I guarantee you there's plenty of legs and boobs on display, yeah it's out of place in Metal Gear Solid, but what the hell isn't out of place in Metal Gear Solid? I feel some people don't get that many women wear scantily clad clothing, is it realistic in a conflict? No. Is Metal Gear Solid? No.

Guys guys..... forget all of this quiet nonsense. I found the REAL issue here.

http://7daytick.tumblr.com/post/60557062335/was-play-ff-tactics-before-bed-the-other-night-and

Also, Olga Gurlukovich and The Boss.

*rolleyes*

you see muscle bound half naked dudes everywhere, games, movies, everyfucking where, but then a polygonal model of a girl wearing something that is as provoking as a bikini is shown and everyone is up in arms about it, wtf?

would you prefer if she was dressed as a nun?

I'm not offended by the character design or anything, I just think it's really stupid. I hope she isn't a major part of the game because I don't think I can get over just how silly her outfit looks.

Is she cosplaying as a cheerleader?

@sooty: How is it not fair? Kojima has admitted to putting fan service in his games, I am just saying that is what he does. I am calling a spade a spade. For every 1 well covered lady (The Boss) I can name 2 or 3 that have monster cleavage or no pants for no real reason besides aesthetics, including Sniper Wolf who wears a jumpsuit but decides to keep the zipper undone to where you can see a good amount of cleavage. Luckily they are all pretty cool characters, but don't try to say that they are not designed to be pleasing to the eyes cause that's just crazy talk.

And I am not saying it's bad, it's just how Kojima rolls.

What is silly is trying to explain it and act like it's some kind of deep art that needs defending. It's a guy making a character look the way he likes them to look. And he likes them to be in bikini tops and no pants in this case and there is probably some duper dumb reason (nano-machines, gene manipulation, whatever) for it, but it is what it is. It's a reason to get a lady in a sexy outfit. And who cares why or how, it just is. And like I said before, I don't care because I expect this type of design aesthetic from MGS games.

@hinderk: As opposed to what? Every other god damn character design in a Kojima game ever?

heh. I think that's just based on the equipment they come with. Female soldiers have a different weapon that is 100 gil cheaper, thus making hiring them 100 gil cheaper.

But it's sexist against men, maaaaaaaan!

Er...wouldn't that be sexist against women since its inferring women are worth less?

No, because you have to pay more to use male soldiers. Just like American males have to pay higher car insurance premiums until they're about twenty-five.

(And for those that would take this the wrong way, I AM NOT BEING SERIOUS.)

Because he has put characters who aren't just pure sex appeal. Sniper Wolf wasn't always showing cleavage if I remember right either, can't really remember if the snow suit showed much or not.

Kojima made the boss the most amazing and awesome character in videogame history. So get over it

It's silly, just like everything else in the Metal Gear Solid series!

To my knowledge, Sniper Wolf always had cleavage in mind, as if she were a deadly Bond girl. Her snow suit didn't show much, but her jumpsuit under it was certainly revealing.

@truthtellah: Yeah baby...look at them blocky pixels!

I'm not a female, but I think all this is a little bit of overreacting. Kojima does a pretty good job of making his characters relatable, even given their fanciful and outlandish outfits/designs. He's also been pretty inclusive as far as I can tell. Hell, Volgin was bisexual wasn't he? And it wasn't the main focus of his character, but it was there, and that was back in 2004. I think maybe everyone should just wait a bit and stop judging a character based solely on her appearance.