GiantBomb ladies, are we overreacting to Quiet in MGS V?

@sooty: No they aren't just PURE sex appeal, but they all have sex appeal. See my point? I never said these characters were just a pretty girl in tight revealing clothes, it's a part of a larger picture.

A lot of his characters, especially the female characters, are good looking but the guys are too. Not all of them, but the main ones all are pretty handsome. Now the female charcters aren't just good looking, but also tend to wear sexy outfits, whether it makes a lick of sense or not on the battlefield or whatever. This doesn't make their character any less interesting, or strong, or emotionally resonant. But it does make me go "Wow, the designer of this game sure likes to show off the bodies of sexy ladies" when I watch gameplay and look at screen shots and character renders.

So how is that not the case? He can make an interesting, strong female character but he also tends to put them in sexy clothes. That's not a problem and I have no issue with his choices, as I have stated. I just don't think we should act like he isn't finding ways to get girls in skimpy clothes *cough* nano-machines *cough* science-y stuff *cough* or whatever it is that he is planning in this case.

BUT WHAT WILL BE HAVE TO BE IRRATIONALLY ANGRY ABOUT RRRRRRRGH

their point is that they always design the girls almost naked in games, making them look like sexual objects. and feminists fight over that, because they believe that's a big influence over fat virgins with pickles who will believe all women are whores and sexual objects. you know, fighting for equally and bullshit like that. it smells like hypocrisy here anyways. topics for bored people.

If you like blocky pixels, you're in for a treat with MGS1's Meryl.

@truthtellah said:

@demoskinos said:

@truthtellah: Yeah baby...look at them blocky pixels!

If you like blocky pixels, you're in for a treat with MGS1's Meryl.

And a little something for the ladies while we're at it!

I'm not really that concerned with this character that seems to fit with how Kojima has always preferred his female characters, but I am certainly concerned by many comments like this one in this thread and elsewhere.

@yummylee: Haha every time I play MGS 1 i have to crawl in and out of the vent 3 times to do the "Meryl in her underwear" easter egg. Its a tradition at this point.

So... how does everyone think they'll handle Quiet's eventual torture scene?

Will it just be a short glimpse for effect or maybe Tomb Raidery-style moaning for ten minutes?

You are concerned too much, use that energy in your real life ;)

Unfortunately, I have to deal with people like this in real life, too. So, can't escape it anywhere. :)

Love her design and dont care if it's sexualized. God bless Japan. Thank god I'm not over-sensitive cause there seems to be an over abundance in the pessimism.

More seriously, Kojima (according to his tweets) seems to have a big character narrative behind Quiet, so she looks to not just end up as eye candy. Have faith in the man and dont get your 'man panties' in a bunch.

Now I take my leave before I get banned..... again. Oops.... Can't mention getting banned either. Bye.

@truthtellah: I think there will be brutal torture for quite a few characters in the game. Kojima sure likes to explore themes in his games torture and slavery I'm guessing might be the two hot button issues here.

Wait, when were you banned, GnaTSoL? If you're back, doesn't that mean you were just suspended?

Do you ever go through forum threads like this and read posts out loud? To hear what this would sound like coming out of a human's mouth? Try it.

@truthtellah: I also can't escape of people who rely on a few posts over the internet and feeling like they know these people in reality, but what can I do ? All I can do is ignore them, but they bump into me. So that's not my fault.

Sure sounds like you're the one bumping into them.

If you're gonna only portray a little bit, though, might as well be the best of yourself than the worst, eh? Even the smaller, passing moments of life matter. :)

Exactly. The most frustrating part of these kind of issues is that I don't even have a huge problem with the design. It's stupid, it's silly, I don't like it but I'm not going to boycott the game or anything. But the real problem that there are so many people who DO NOT AT ALL GET IT that I feel like sometimes I have to argue from a position I'm not necessarily even in because some people are just so completely clueless as why this kind of thing could possibly be bad.

@truthtellah: I simply love it when people act like pseudo-psychologists.

The real point for the second guy with his boycott stuff, you should learn that there are other people with different opinions and that doesn't mean we are clueless, is just that you can't accept other's opinions, that's the real problem and that's how a thread goes to garbage. Learn to accept other's opinions or at least learn to fucking not whine a lot about it. In order to look like we have an idea what we are talking about, your conclusion is that we all should have the same opinion. And that's very illogical.

@truthtellah: yeah, suspended.

@apocalybra: heh. Not sure why you need to be a jerk about it. We're all fellow duders here. Just because people are occasionally mistaken doesn't mean they're bad folks. All I'm saying is that what we say here does matter, and it's reasonable to consider that someone expressing an opinion with no expectation of responsibility likely still holds that opinion when they do have to bear responsibility. We may be online, but we're still human beings all the same. :)

@milkman: I'm sry, could you please explain in detail again what's wrong with the topic at hand and the issues it causes. No trolling from me. Just want to hear your reasoning precisely considering you say you don't mind it but kinda do....

Ah, okay. Well, welcome back!

I am not a jerk at all, if they can't accept other's opinions, at least they could ignore or come with real arguments, not trying to insult someone and justify that frustration through some bullshit. Otherwise, no one can expect a decent conversation, even if some people are immature, it's not like you don't have place to post here because of others like me. My opinions are always different from a majority of people, some people are sensible princesses and that's not my problem. Even the title says everything "overreacting" .

"expressing an opinion with no expectation of responsibility" oh yeah, this one... it's not the ignoring thing itself, I can be against tens of people and I am always like that, I have many immoral opinions that society will never accept (another story), but the main thing is their interests behind attacks.

Why is this being argued about now? Didn't we all see this at E3 months ago? Some dude on twitter throws out a one liner and it divides the gaming community. People need to stop putting so much weight on twitter comments. No one cries foul when Scarlet Johansson wears tights and bows her ass into the camera in Iron Man, but a bikini top in Metal Gear Solid marks the downfall of videogames. :P

I think that's a two-way street. You're responding rather strongly despite the mildest of concern over one of your comments. As you said, different opinions are different opinions, and I can appreciate that some people feel differently about this topic. What concerns me is when someone just decides to mock the people discussing it and suggest that caring about equality is "bullshit".

You came in and spoke dismissively of anyone that felt differently than you do about this, and that's the problem. Since then, you've been saying how you just don't like that anyone is being dismissive of different opinions, but your mocking comment that I originally responded to actively dismissed the concerns of others. We can agree or disagree. That's all good. But being mocking and dismissive of those concerned here is what's unfortunate.

I'll agree about The Boss. Possibly the strongest female character I've ever encountered in a game. And she was all covered up (well, at least til the end).

I dare to go even beyond games. In the MGS world she is the epitome of being a solider her character is one of the most tragic things (as far as media goes) I've ever seen. A woman who was so patriotic that she gave up not only her life but her child, husband and went down in history as a traitor because that's the sacrifice she was willing to make for her country. She literally gave everything she ever had and end the end wasn't even appreciated for it. I still fucking tear up at the end of MGS 3.

@truthtellah: Well they heavily tortured Both Snake and Raidan (radian was nude at the time) in prolonged scenes. So yeah...(Snake was shirtless)

Also she's a mute, so she can't moan.

@martyarf said:

Any day now we'll see the game where the man is coincidentally semi-naked because Canonical Reasons. Maybe at console launch. Any day now.

You mean like this?

And many people here miss the point. That is not how male developer think women should look like. Video game characters are for the most part not realistic and they need to stand out to be interesting. Like a Bayonetta which is only covered in Hair and was designed even by a female designer. I would totally understand if realistic characters like Ellie would wear skimpy outfits in a realistic game like the Last of us or someone in the Walking dead. But Kojimas games are far from reality and the whole universe which MGS is set in is sexualized. and full of these characters like Quiet male or female. It makes total sense to look like that in the MGS Universe just like a Raiden, a Vamp even Snake.

Why do I have to be a lady to have my opinion heard on this matter? Here's mine: That is a ridiculous, juvenile character design.It objectifies the character without any clear purpose other than to titillate. This is not arguable.

The Boss reminds me of old ideals of the Soviet Heroic Woman in the 50s and 60s. The ultra nationalist who sacrifices everything, even herself, for the sake of the nation. A mother and soldier. The mother of a nation. I agree that she's a cool character. I'd say she's an interesting commentary on the ideal soldier and ideal nationalist woman.

You're funny. I like you.

Kojima, I've read your Tweets and I'm calling you a liar.

"No, she was escaping from captivity, and all she managed to find was torn stockings and a handkerchief."

Characters in games haven't been designed with any degree of realism in most games. Since most games are designed for males (and, no, I don't fault developers for designing to their most common purchasing demographic) most heroes are designed as outrageously masculine and most heroines are designed as outrageously sexualized. Both are caused by childishness, and both are unfair.

But--and maybe it's my traditionalist upbringing (if it is, I don't really care)--if the design of Marcus Fenix makes a twelve-year-old want to lift weights, eh, not particularly dreadful. If the design of Quiet makes them want to try to peer down their teacher's bra, then we've a problem. One has no effect on their respect of boundaries and personhood, and the other does.

But maybe we should just get better at storytelling. Kojima, I won't be buying MGS 5, and it's not because of Quiet. It's because you, like a lot of game writers, weave narrative with a sledgehammer.

I think it's because males are more ocularly stimulated than females. This is why the vast majority of pornography is aimed at men. The emotional aspects of sexuality, the side that women usually connect more deeply with than men, is more difficult to convey with distance. Fifty Shades of Grey can (or at least try to) carry and instill the story of the spiritual and emotion facets of sexual stimulation, while Knockers.com doesn't imbue its content with anything deeper than, "Hey, you guys, tits."

If, for example, a male streaker ran through a park, the reactions of most men and women would be laughter or disgust. If a female streaker ran through a park, most women would react with laughter or disgust, but most men would file it away for later.

It's like people forgot about EVA or the sexy anime girls in MGS4. This kind of stuff is what MGS is all about. It's a dumb design for sure but this isn't the first time MGS has done this.

Yeah, I figured she might be tortured -before- she has gone mute. Maybe the torture is what drove her to silence?

Also, they haven't suggested that she is physically incapable of speech. A lot of people who are mute can still scream or laugh. Being mute can mean full physical incapability, but it can also mean mental or physical impairment. Like an autistic child or a traumatized individual unable to use words but still able to scream in pain or laugh.

Nothing in that post was intended to be funny.

For your information, I'm female, so I can't be a man-child. Condescending? Me? Nah. More like truthful.

I tear up, man. That salute with the music swell... just gives me chills even thinking about it.

@truthtellah: Well, yeah. People can be mute for a multitude of reasons. But this is metal gear solid we're talking about. She probably doesn't have a tongue at all, or her throat was severely damaged by robots, or nanomachines prevent her from talking. WHATEVER. Fact is, one of the FEW things we know about her is that she's mute, and in that extended trailer they show her being shocked so bad she's twitching and almost anyone would make a sound but she doesnt.

Also, wtf? why are they torturing a mute sniper? She can't tell them anything! Literally! Is she gonna write it by hand? Whats the deal? I don't see a pad of paper and a marker. Are they just torturing her to be a dick? and i mean thats not totally unreasonable, she is a sniper. maybe she shot their friends and its just some good old fashioned revenge? I dunno! WE NEED MORE CONTEXT GUYS!

@mlarrabee: Maybe its supposed to be cheesy and dumb and fun though? Not everything has to be a serious example of how everyhing is. why not have a chick running around in her underwear sniping fools? WHY NOT?

Also teenagers are going to look at their teachers cleavage regardless of any video games they've played. Thats just biology, and also the teacher wearing shirts that show off her tits. What's wrong with having attractive characters? Who is it hurting? And people do dress like that all the time. So again, whats the big god damn deal?

Talking reality here. If a female with large breasts wears clothing that emphasizes her breasts, I will look. I will, I'm sorry, i enjoy that as does most men. Guess what she probably enjoys it too, if she didnt, she wouldnt wear it. The whole "this character is horrible for women" is just stupid. Especially when we know next to nothing about her character. Rap music however is awful for women, but you never hear about (or at least i never hear about it) women complaining about the blatant sexism in a vast majority of rap songs. Back that ass up indeed!

EDIT- Disclaimer, i have a penis. Apparently that's a bad thing in this thread. Sorry...

How's that bad? You can have a penis and still be a lady. Have you even watched the porn I watch?

I think this is the biggest problem here. While characters are never a full representation of women but rather A woman or A man. People think they should not look like that. For me these are the biggest sexist because they try to justify and decide what is good and what is bad for a women/men . We are all different and there are a lot of women who also want or look like that and there is nothing wrong with it at all because they do not represent women but rather themselves.No one ever should tell people how they should look.

If a women wants to be a stripper because she likes it no one should decline her wish or disrespect her for that. If someone is sexual very active and has fun to sleep with men or women and as long she protects herself and other people it is totally fine. You maybe not agree with her/him but that does not give you the right to say that these people are a bad representation of their gender.

@clonedzero: heh. Maybe it's nano-machines, but I think you bring up a valid point. If she's physically incapable of speech, why are they torturing her at all? What's the point? Which I believe reinforces that she can speak at some point but her words are taken from her. So, we'll likely still see plenty of pain from the torture.

I think the only reason we didn't hear it in the trailer was because they were prioritizing music at that point. In the final game, I'm guessing it will have audio. If she's not making any noises at all, either she's amazingly trained or they ripped out her vocal chords. Which, hey, maybe. But then, it would make torturing her rather meaningless... (unless they untie her and get her to write something down)

EDIT - At this point, this thread is already far from what it ever had any chance to be; so, your genitals do not matter. (My apologies to your genitals)

She can still write or show something on a map if they torture her. Speaking is not the only way to answer questions.

WOW THANKS

SEE YOU IN COURT NERD

FINE LET'S DO THIS

SEE YOU IN COURT INDIVIDUAL WHOM I CONSIDER WITH FOND REGARD

@clonedzero: The "big god damn deal" is that it reenforces the idea that people aren't worthy of basic respect. A woman exposing too much of her breasts in public is showing disrespect for everyone who interacts with her (before anyone asks, too much breast is anything beyond the socially acceptable limit). Anyone trying to catch a glimpse of cleavage is showing disrespect for the person who owns said cleavage. Sure, teenage boys are going to stare at the barista's backside when she reaches for more cups, and teenage girls are going to try to flirt with the cute biology teacher who's way too old for them. But that's why the older (and hopefully wiser) adults around them are trying to teach them about basic boundaries: this is acceptable behavior and this isn't. And it's not about control or repression; this is about treating people as though their thoughts and their bodies are their own.

Maybe Kojima is just having a bit of fun. Maybe he knows it's dumb.

I've played dumb. I'm sick of dumb. I'm ready to trade in my Hardy Boys for some Clockwork Orange. I want to put away the Mandy Moore and send out for some Wagner. I'm shelving Duke Nukem 3D and playing The Walking Dead.

I'm sure I'll want some dumb in the future, but right now, video games have been dumb for a really long time.

OH HEY WHAT'S GOING ON IN HE- OH JESUS GOD DON'T MAKE ME CHOOSE A SIDE.

DON'T PICK A SIDE JUST JUMP IN THE RING AND POWER BOMB EVERYTHING THAT MOVES.