Valve is Overrated

I'm tempted to just respond to this thread with "SmugDarkLoser's favorite game is Halo 3, case closed." Instead I'll type something up because I'm bored.

What you seem to be unable to recognize, Loser (if I may call you that), is that Valve has been pioneering innovation and advancement in nearly all quadrants of the shooter genre for years. Left4Dead's AI DIrector is supremely overrated and predictable, to the point where the game can feel monotonous. Unfortunate, because that is supposed to be the biggest achievement that the game has. It still brings a lot more to the table. The dynamic music, combined with the audio/visual cues and absolutely perfect lighting filters and settings, create the ultimate zombie-killing atmosphere. You can feel it in the walls around you in Left4Dead. It's sublime. Then there is the co-op gameplay, which (especially on Expert) encourages a level of teamwork and communication that you hardly ever see elicited from the average player. Combine that with the monster design, special zombies, crippling system, and all of the other bells and whistles, and it's easy to see that Left4Dead is the epitome of both the co-op shooter and the zombie game.

Team Fortress 2 is a game that manages to be one of the finest class-based shooter options in existence. It came out perfectly balanced, from the classes to the level design. Watching the Valve Commentary that is available in the game really gives you an appreciation for the hours of thought and deliberations and debates that must have gone on when making these seemingly simple levels and class choices. They continue to support the community with even more top-notch content, absolutely for free. Their updates might need to be tweaked slightly when real players take them out for a spin, but they continually alter and balance constantly to make sure their game tips no scales. Compared to Bungie's fairly mediocre levels that it continues to charge way too much for, and it... really isn't a comparison that can be made. Two different (one higher, one lower) planes of existence.

With Portal, it's fairly obvious that you don't understand the design philosophy behind it at all- it does not need to be made into a full game. That would be terrible. The reason it is lauded so much is because of the fact that it manages to pack an incredibly fun, rewarding, amazing and unique experience into a 3-4 hour package, and make that package more satisfying than most of the retail games that came out around it. If you wanted more, there were a large number of advanced puzzles to complete, and then there were all of the special challenges (take no steps, use X number of portals, etc.) if you wanted more after *that*. Again, Valve shows that they know the potential scope of their own projects and designs accordingly, not attempting to drag it out needlessly and fluff it out with more content to the point that the entire game starts to feel stale.

As with Portal, you aren't coming at Half Life 2 with the right mindset. I'll be the first person to tell people that they overrate the game- personally, I think the pacing is bullshit terrible and the gunplay (as with Left4Dead) is essentially just too weak. However, the fact that they managed to integrate the storytelling and world so deeply into the gameplay (no real cutscenes, proximity dialogue) and make it work so well is amazing. I'm Gordon Freeman. I know I'm Gordon Freeman. Yet since Gordon Freeman is essentially an unkown in terms of personality, you are free to act and do as you wish, even through Gordon Freeman's body. Whereas other games would not succeed in giving you a named character and making you feel completely comfortable moving in their body, Half Life does it perfectly. That is something that Halo does do, albeit through a much cheaper method of giving a character a grunt or too and keeping them in some armor suit. Valve has the balls to tell us what Gordon looks like, and still design a game that makes you not care.

As for designing endlessly playable multiplayer experiences and all that, it's fairly laughable that you would criticise Valve, proprieter of Counter Strike, arguably one of the largest ongoing FPS communtiies in the world, for not having a game like that.

So if all of these games are only okay then, why is Valve esteemed so highly?  Well, to put it simple, they made HL1, which I have actually never played (omg!) which introduced so many new things to gamers, namely good scripting.  This gave them their legacy.  And then with Steam, it's literally impossible to hate them now.  They're essentially the face of the pc community.  PS3 has got Sony, the 360 has got MS, the Wii has got Nintendo, PC has got Valve.

valve is amazing u just suk at fps

Valve is great.  My only problem is when Newell starts coming out spitting some elitist PC nonsense that no one cares about. 

You sir (the OP) are a liar and a harlot. Your mother was a whore and your father was her pimp. *puts on a monocle*

I think your out of your mind. I think Valve is one of the best companies ever and they makes the best game I've ever played. Seeing you write what you wrote is disheartening to me, and I can't imagine feeling the way you do.

"Evilmetal said:

One can spend hours playing a free flash game from a website... might as well send that site 49.99...

Your claim that Valve realizes the episodes are not a full experience, thus they charge accordingly...... but it goes back to the question: Will the masses bite? or not?

Using World of Warcraft in your argument is low, that's a low blow sir. First of all those WoW players are hooked on the game, some would even sell their parents if they had to in order to pay another month. Just like it's been said of Everquest is "Evercrack", because it is an addicting game, therefore Blizzard can not only GET AWAY WITH IT, they BLATENTLY come out and show that they can get away with it. The WoW community will follow because the game is that addicting and some may say, that good also.

With the HL2 episodes, Valve came out and said it... EPISODE. Therefore they cannot get away with it. "Oh but Blizzard and WoW..." but WoW has no mod tools and WoW doesn't have a modding and game making community. CS made Valve. CS was made by some people during their free time... not a company, but regular people.... Joe the plumbers if you will... ;)

If the Valve community can make a company saving game, ala CS, the community can make something even better in the future... Valve could become superflous if they are not careful, that's why they try to move carefully. They think about their limitations and act on how to advance.

L4D is being pitched as a non-expansion and a non-mod, thus 49.99... and the people are buying it... buying the pitch with in turn makes them buy the game.

• If the flash game was good enough and caught on, than maybe it could be turned into a XBLA game for $5-$10. Otherwise, what a stupid claim, "Might as well send that side 49.99." No.
• "It goes back to the question." All you are saying is, "I have no fact-based opinion and instead want to start trouble by looping an argument." No, it doesn't go back to if the masses will bite.
• I've played WoW for 3 years, I know what it is, what it's about, and what it can do.
• You are trying too hard to make yourself sound intelligent and have a sturdy reasoning. No need to keep trying, I can see what you are doing. L4D is a full-fledged game and anyone who thinks otherwise does not understand multiplayer and/or replayability. There is no damn pitch. It's a game.

"Valve is great.  My only problem is when Newell starts coming out spitting some elitist PC nonsense that no one cares about. "

"*wish I could change the title to Valve is Esteemed to highly.  And please, don't hurt me!!!
Edit: On thought, shouldn't the topic title be I don't like Valve as much as you?  yea... that'd be it.  How can something
about opinion be overrated really if I'm against the crowd... I think.

Disclaimer: This is my opinion.  (omg, wtf?  an opinion!?  run people!!!!)

Anyway, I think Valve, in general, is overrated. I first really found about them with HL2 and I have played all of their games since then on the pc with the exception of HL2 Episode 2 and Portal (i actually own the orange box on the 360 and have TF2 on the pc as well). 

That being said, I just feel like their games never are as good as people make them out to be.  Taking their most recent game for example, Left 4 Dead. Let me start out by saying that I like this game, it's good.  That being said, it's a short game with a multiplayer mode that's okay in reality, but it's nothing that'll hook you in.  So it's mainly a co-op experience that is about 4 hours.  This is awful.   ahh... but pricing shouldn't be what I'm talking about.  The fact is, the whole way through, there was truly nothing that was impressive in the game.  It basically felt like a solid zombie killing game.  Truly, nothing more.  Weapons were only decently satisfying. Here's the hidden text.  If you're reading this, god bless you!  Really, I think that if this were not a Valve game (keep in mind the same game) it would be treated as how I view it- a good game.  Not anything amazing.

 
Next up, the Team Fortress 2.  Again, this is a good game.   It has a hugely solid multiplayer mode and Valve supports it a good amount even if they always seem to be releasing and update that unbalances the game (to be fair, they've realized this and gotten away from it).   This is a good mp game.  I can't really say anything more.  Do I feel it's overrated?  Hell yes.  That being said, I have no problems with this game at all. 

Portal-  my favorite game by valve.  Why it was as short as it was I have no idea but it was still good.  Well executed, but again, they need to make this into a FULL game. 

Half Life - this is where my real complaint stems against them.  Half Life 2 is simply a game that lives on technical achievements and its predecessor.  This game is completely average in every single way.  The only thing it had on another game was its physics and more so, its graphics.  When this game came out it looked so freaking good.   I don't know how else to explain it but when you saw this game for the first time you were just blown away.  It was like seeing a preview of next generation graphics at the time. Like seriously, it was.  Oh my gosh how goodt this game looked.  Like holy crap.  Did they really pull this off?  It looked so aweosme! ...that being said, once you stepped into the arena to actually play it, you would discover that there wasn't so much more after that.  The beggining is simply amazing.  With it comes the graphical shock and an amazing, very filmic intro.  Then, with Watergate,  it becomes essentially a standard FPS and you're left to explore nothing.  Awful puzzles to break it up (which they improved in later episodes) and gunplay that just wasn't satisfying, the only truly fun weapon to use being the gravity gun and the grenade (together of course).    Did it pick up?  Well yes, particularly after you get sent back to the city via the teleporter with the time delay (you remember, right!?)  What the hell was truly happening, you didn't know.  But it sounded like a good story, all these things that were supposely important happening.  It was really in that city that all the fun came from.  So this won't become an absolute wall, episode 1 was basically like the worst parts in HL2 and Episode 2 was composed of stuff like watergate and some of the good city.  They got it right here though, the pacing was improved and it felt better. 
---> Half Life in general, relies on the mods to make it good. 



So if all of these games are only okay then, why is Valve esteemed so highly?  Well, to put it simple, they made HL1, which I have actually never played (omg!) which introduced so many new things to gamers, namely good scripting.  This gave them their legacy.  And then with Steam, it's literally impossible to hate them now.  They're essentially the face of the pc community.  PS3 has got Sony, the 360 has got MS, the Wii has got Nintendo, PC has got Valve.


Edit:  Thinking about it, I think what tipped me off was Left 4 Dead.  It just isn't worth $50 and it's only a decent game.  I think this is it.  And then people compare Valve to be on par, or above, Bungie.  While I wouldn't compare, mainly because Bungie has only made 1 series since 2001 and 3 games (although they're supposely making 3 games for the 360 right now!), the truth is that Bungie really packs in content to their game.  They create an everlasting multiplayer mode,  update the game weekly, have a good single player, have great website support, and then have things we wouldn't even suspect like Forge and Theater.  So going back to Valve, why couldn't they do the same with one of their games?  They always seem to just do enough, at least as of late.  And yes, the orange box sort of compensated by taking 3 of these smaller ones and packaging them together as well as with 2 older games but still, I'm more of a person to care about the game itself.  I'd much rather pay $50 for each game and have it fully fleshed out than what they gave.  


CitizenKane said:  "We treat people who don't worship Valve almost as badly as we treat people who don't like Star Wars.  Watch your steps from here on out.  We're watching you ~_~""

I don't think I've ever played a Valve game.. so no comment.

Wait, wasn't Portal developed by Valve?  If so, then Portal was prolly the best XBL download I've ever made.

lol TC never played original half life - his opinion means nothing

there's nothing wrong with their games just a few people making out they're gods

plus a lot of the games they're famous for are actually mods


inb4halocommentofsomekind

there's nothing wrong with their games just a few people making out they're gods

plus a lot of the games they're famous for are actually mods


inb4halocommentofsomekind

OP you don't understand gaming, you don't understand Valve and you obviously don't understand that you should douse yourself in gasoline, set yourself ablaze, and jump into the path of some sort of large, high-speed object, like oncoming traffic, a train, or Gabe Newell when he sees a KFC. You stupid faggot.

Did you really just submit that Bungie supports their products better than Valve? We-charge-for-maps-that-should-be-free-downloads Bungie? How can you be so stupid? Have you seen what Valve done with TF2 in the year it's been out you bag of monkey cum? They release assloads of free content for their games because it's just what Valve does, it's a good way to retain customers and add value to their products, and they don't even charge the usual $60 dollars for their games the way console publishers do.

Did you really just say that Team Fortress 2, Half-Life 2 and the Episodes, Portal, and Half-Life are "only okay"? No, I'll assume you didn't say it and that it was just a brief lapse in judgement. No one is that fucking retarded.

"OP you don't understand gaming, you don't understand Valve and you obviously don't understand that you should douse yourself in gasoline, set yourself ablaze, and jump into the path of some sort of large, high-speed object, like oncoming traffic, a train, or Gabe Newell when he sees a KFC. You stupid faggot.

Did you really just submit that Bungie supports their products better than Valve? We-charge-for-maps-that-should-be-free-downloads Bungie? How can you be so stupid? Have you seen what Valve done with TF2 in the year it's been out you bag of monkey cum? They release assloads of free content for their games because it's just what Valve does, it's a good way to retain customers and add value to their products, and they don't even charge the usual $60 dollars for their games the way console publishers do.

Did you really just say that Team Fortress 2, Half-Life 2 and the Episodes, Portal, and Half-Life are "only okay"? No, I'll assume you didn't say it and that it was just a brief lapse in judgement. No one is that fucking retarded."

"OP you don't understand gaming, you don't understand Valve and you obviously don't understand that you should douse yourself in gasoline, set yourself ablaze, and jump into the path of some sort of large, high-speed object, like oncoming traffic, a train, or Gabe Newell when he sees a KFC. You stupid faggot.

Did you really just submit that Bungie supports their products better than Valve? We-charge-for-maps-that-should-be-free-downloads Bungie? How can you be so stupid? Have you seen what Valve done with TF2 in the year it's been out you bag of monkey cum? They release assloads of free content for their games because it's just what Valve does, it's a good way to retain customers and add value to their products, and they don't even charge the usual $60 dollars for their games the way console publishers do.

Did you really just say that Team Fortress 2, Half-Life 2 and the Episodes, Portal, and Half-Life are "only okay"? No, I'll assume you didn't say it and that it was just a brief lapse in judgement. No one is that fucking retarded."

"OP you don't understand gaming, you don't understand Valve and you obviously don't understand that you should douse yourself in gasoline, set yourself ablaze, and jump into the path of some sort of large, high-speed object, like oncoming traffic, a train, or Gabe Newell when he sees a KFC. You stupid faggot.

Did you really just submit that Bungie supports their products better than Valve? We-charge-for-maps-that-should-be-free-downloads Bungie? How can you be so stupid? Have you seen what Valve done with TF2 in the year it's been out you bag of monkey cum? They release assloads of free content for their games because it's just what Valve does, it's a good way to retain customers and add value to their products, and they don't even charge the usual $60 dollars for their games the way console publishers do.

Did you really just say that Team Fortress 2, Half-Life 2 and the Episodes, Portal, and Half-Life are "only okay"? No, I'll assume you didn't say it and that it was just a brief lapse in judgement. No one is that fucking retarded."

"Sushbag said:

"OP you don't understand gaming, you don't understand Valve and you obviously don't understand that you should douse yourself in gasoline, set yourself ablaze, and jump into the path of some sort of large, high-speed object, like oncoming traffic, a train, or Gabe Newell when he sees a KFC. You stupid faggot.

Did you really just submit that Bungie supports their products better than Valve? We-charge-for-maps-that-should-be-free-downloads Bungie? How can you be so stupid? Have you seen what Valve done with TF2 in the year it's been out you bag of monkey cum? They release assloads of free content for their games because it's just what Valve does, it's a good way to retain customers and add value to their products, and they don't even charge the usual $60 dollars for their games the way console publishers do.

Did you really just say that Team Fortress 2, Half-Life 2 and the Episodes, Portal, and Half-Life are "only okay"? No, I'll assume you didn't say it and that it was just a brief lapse in judgement. No one is that fucking retarded."

ThIS IS WHAT I WAS HOPING FOR. 

The only thing I really can respond to is the charging for maps.  All of them are free except the legendary which costs $4.  And its not exactly their fault, it's MS's.  And either way those will be free when Mythic comes.
And the truth is, the difference between Bungie's new maps and Valve's new maps is that bungie actually makes good maps, lol.   Seriously, there's only 2 good maps in TF2, Dustbowl and 2Fort, that Valve made.  As far as user stuff, it's mostly just meh (which is fine) but the one I especially like is the land control on that map with the big orange castle in the middle and where sniping rules.  Hope that wasn't too vague.  THe Mario Kart one was actually pretty funny and caught my attnetion, but its not good as a map itself, just the gimmick.

And either way, they don't provide enough content in most every game they make, so this is irrelevant. "

"OP you don't understand gaming, you don't understand Valve and you obviously don't understand that you should douse yourself in gasoline, set yourself ablaze, and jump into the path of some sort of large, high-speed object, like oncoming traffic, a train, or Gabe Newell when he sees a KFC. You stupid faggot.

Did you really just submit that Bungie supports their products better than Valve? We-charge-for-maps-that-should-be-free-downloads Bungie? How can you be so stupid? Have you seen what Valve done with TF2 in the year it's been out you bag of monkey cum? They release assloads of free content for their games because it's just what Valve does, it's a good way to retain customers and add value to their products, and they don't even charge the usual $60 dollars for their games the way console publishers do.

Did you really just say that Team Fortress 2, Half-Life 2 and the Episodes, Portal, and Half-Life are "only okay"? No, I'll assume you didn't say it and that it was just a brief lapse in judgement. No one is that fucking retarded."

"SmugDarkLoser said:

"Sushbag said:

"OP you don't understand gaming, you don't understand Valve and you obviously don't understand that you should douse yourself in gasoline, set yourself ablaze, and jump into the path of some sort of large, high-speed object, like oncoming traffic, a train, or Gabe Newell when he sees a KFC. You stupid faggot.

Did you really just submit that Bungie supports their products better than Valve? We-charge-for-maps-that-should-be-free-downloads Bungie? How can you be so stupid? Have you seen what Valve done with TF2 in the year it's been out you bag of monkey cum? They release assloads of free content for their games because it's just what Valve does, it's a good way to retain customers and add value to their products, and they don't even charge the usual $60 dollars for their games the way console publishers do.

Did you really just say that Team Fortress 2, Half-Life 2 and the Episodes, Portal, and Half-Life are "only okay"? No, I'll assume you didn't say it and that it was just a brief lapse in judgement. No one is that fucking retarded."

ThIS IS WHAT I WAS HOPING FOR. 

The only thing I really can respond to is the charging for maps.  All of them are free except the legendary which costs $4.  And its not exactly their fault, it's MS's.  And either way those will be free when Mythic comes.
And the truth is, the difference between Bungie's new maps and Valve's new maps is that bungie actually makes good maps, lol.   Seriously, there's only 2 good maps in TF2, Dustbowl and 2Fort, that Valve made.  As far as user stuff, it's mostly just meh (which is fine) but the one I especially like is the land control on that map with the big orange castle in the middle and where sniping rules.  Hope that wasn't too vague.  THe Mario Kart one was actually pretty funny and caught my attnetion, but its not good as a map itself, just the gimmick.

And either way, they don't provide enough content in most every game they make, so this is irrelevant. "

Oh heeeeeeeell no. Halo 3's maps are some of the most mediocre pieces of crap I've played in a supposed triple-A game in a long, long time. To go and say that Bungie makes "good" maps compared to Valve is the most ignorant thing you could possibly utter regarding this subject. Seriously. GTFO."

Really? I find that the majority of their maps are ass and horribly put together.

"Really? I find that the majority of their maps are ass and horribly put together."

The majority, as I said. I could say ALL OF THEM, but I'm not going to as I have not played all of them (only the majority), but I found them to be just like the shitty Unreal Tournament multiplayer maps.

Your title should be changed to Valve GAMES are overrated. Steam is the best thing since the internet.

"The majority, as I said. I could say ALL OF THEM, but I'm not going to as I have not played all of them (only the majority), but I found them to be just like the shitty Unreal Tournament multiplayer maps."

Unreal Tournament maps surpass Halo maps in almost every way possible, including intelligence of design, character, and uniqueness.

Every map pack they've had has just been complete garbage. The Legendary Map pack for example, you get charged for1 new map basically, and just a reskin of 2 old ones. Definitely worth the value.

As I said from the start, this was a definite mistake in posting to the general public on your part, you're going to get some people flaming pointlessly of course, but anyone smart enough to actually respond with a normal response is not going to agree one bit of claims such as Bungie has some of the best designed maps ever, and Valves are mediocre. I got a new entire set of weapons for 3 classes so far, with like 6 maps, all quality maps, some that Valve handpicked from the Community that were the best made, and plenty of new additions to gameplay/good changes for absolutely nothing. There's no arguing that that is a better value than "3 maps" which are 2 reskins and only 1 new one, which is below mediocre.

And yes, UT's maps and everything about it blow halo and every map it has out of the water, with no competition.

"Your title should be changed to Valve GAMES are overrated. Steam is the best thing since the internet."

"Every map pack they've had has just been complete garbage. The Legendary Map pack for example, you get charged for1 new map basically, and just a reskin of 2 old ones. Definitely worth the value.

Halo multiplayer maps are typically like UT's Facing Worlds - uninspired central design, with a bit of complexity towards the ends, but eternally popular because everybody can feel like an awesome sniper (I admit quite a few hours of Facing Worlds myself). They lack flanking routes for the most part, and there is rarely much for vertical fighting - sure there are a few sniper perches, but there aren't through routes. The latter seems to have been somewhat alleviated with later entries, but for the most part the maps are designed for simple head-to-head combat in a central area. You may get exposed ledges with powerful weapons, but that's a pretty basic and simple implementation of risk/reward.

Now let's take one of the maps you feel isn't good in TF2, cp_well. While checkpoint maps do intend for head-on battles, there are multiple routes into each area. The central point can be attacked from both sides as well as underneath the center from the water, or a soldier or demoman can rocket/pipebomb jump up to the deck and attack from top-center. Once inside an enemy base, you can either take the downstairs halls or go upstairs and use the upstairs hall to gain access to the final CP. A defense can be mounted from above if that area isn't overrun, but it doesn't allow them to defend the second to last point without being downstairs, so there's a tradeoff for the superior position. On the final point the high route is more visible and obvious but takes longer for the defending team to get to, meaning the invading team may be able to overpower them by rushing in if nobody is close to the top exits.

"weapons unbalanced the game, lol. "

gasp it's jayge and pause442 running their mouths off about things they're clueless about!!

halo 3's maps are so awesomely refined and unique, and valhalla is simply perfection in map form. And not just about weapon balance; everything about valhalla is perfect. the only "shitty" one is foundry but you can make foundry however you want so yeah.......

the unreal trounament game i've played most is unreal championship and all the maps there at least are simply a series or corridors with absolutely nothing to them.

of course you can bash halo if it makes you feel manly, but it won't get any less awesome no matter how much you get mad at it

"SmugDarkLoser said:

"weapons unbalanced the game, lol. "

What are you talking about?"

"Jayge said:

"SmugDarkLoser said:

"weapons unbalanced the game, lol. "

What are you talking about?"

The new weapons you unlock through achievements were no-nos. 

You honestly think the Ubersaw is a fair weapon? "

"Jayge said:

"SmugDarkLoser said:

"weapons unbalanced the game, lol. "

What are you talking about?"

The new weapons you unlock through achievements were no-nos. 

You honestly think the Ubersaw is a fair weapon? "

"SmugDarkLoser said:

"Jayge said:

"SmugDarkLoser said:

"weapons unbalanced the game, lol. "

What are you talking about?"

The new weapons you unlock through achievements were no-nos. 

You honestly think the Ubersaw is a fair weapon? "

Yes, especially since it's easily countered."

"On a medic?
No sir. 

If this went down in the Bungie community, people who yell and scream at them. (they have the most picky community- what can you expect from the by far biggest game from the by far biggest pro gaming league I guess)"

Anyone getting a melee off is easily countered, and by far the easiest being a Medic because of the such low hp. If its hard for you, then ok, but it doesn't make it unbalanced at all.

the word Overrated is extremely overused and overrated  !!!!!

"SmugDarkLoser said:

"On a medic?
No sir. 

If this went down in the Bungie community, people who yell and scream at them. (they have the most picky community- what can you expect from the by far biggest game from the by far biggest pro gaming league I guess)"

That's because the Bungie community couldn't possibly fathom something like what my good friend Lunarbunny just said above your post."

"Jayge said:

"SmugDarkLoser said:

"On a medic?
No sir. 

If this went down in the Bungie community, people who yell and scream at them. (they have the most picky community- what can you expect from the by far biggest game from the by far biggest pro gaming league I guess)"

That's because the Bungie community couldn't possibly fathom something like what my good friend Lunarbunny just said above your post."

guess again"

"You understand that there are people who debate the smallest things ever, right?

There was a whole huge debate about whether on Cold Storage there should be crevices on the wall
Yea, their community is picky (the point is for grenade bouncing)
to the far right, the white wall.
"

"SmugDarkLoser said:

"You understand that there are people who debate the smallest things ever, right?

There was a whole huge debate about whether on Cold Storage there should be crevices on the wall
Yea, their community is picky (the point is for grenade bouncing)
to the far right, the white wall.
"

You understand that Valve's level design and balancing is such that this is barely even necessary for their games, right?"

Both these games kind of suck.

Im going to go play some COD4.

"And the indent on the wall is something we care about in Halo? 
It's more like arguing about if the gate should be solid or fenced in Team Fortress... oh wait... Valve made it so you could shoot through before the matched started, woops.  But they fixed that, so whatever."

yeah jayge really needs to go click on "the only BR thread" and read all 90 something pages on wether a single bullet shoudl be fired with a spread of 0.30 degrees or not

yeah jayge really needs to go click on "the only BR thread" and read all 90 something pages on wether a single bullet shoudl be fired with a spread of 0.30 degrees or not

"yeah jayge really needs to go click on "the only BR thread" and read all 90 something pages on wether a single bullet shoudl be fired with a spread of 0.30 degrees or not"

Why does a picky community matter for the quality of a game? So somebody can do their favorite tactic on a certain map...yet they don't care about level flow or balance? What happened to understanding a map's strengths and weaknesses and adapting oneself to them?

Basically all you've proven is that the Halo community is made up of a bunch of whiners.

"Why does a picky community matter for the quality of a game? So somebody can do their favorite tactic on a certain map...yet they don't care about level flow or balance? What happened to understanding a map's strengths and weaknesses and adapting oneself to them?

Basically all you've proven is that the Halo community is made up of a bunch of whiners."

"Why does a picky community matter for the quality of a game? So somebody can do their favorite tactic on a certain map...yet they don't care about level flow or balance? What happened to understanding a map's strengths and weaknesses and adapting oneself to them?

Basically all you've proven is that the Halo community is made up of a bunch of whiners."

i think we can all establish lunarbunny has not played much halo 3 whatsoever


halo 3s maps are all unique and balanced... you just haven't got to a high enough level where the gameplay is tight enough to realize this.... same with jayge *cough*sargeantgrade2*cough*... really this whole argument is a case of jayge being a mouthy arsehole about a subject he knows nothing about in an attempt to be kewl on the interwebz