How much can gameplay evolve anymore? Let me ask you that question, with how we are already are able to interact with everything in video games and such. There is literally nowhere left to go in terms of video game gameplay evolution.
Until someone makes a better definition of gameplay, I'll pick story.
@MikeGosot said:
[...]better gameplay(More clever ways to interact with the world, using the interactive aspect of video games to make you have fun/cry/whatever, etc...)?[...]
How much can gameplay evolve anymore? Let me ask you that question, with how we are already are able to interact with everything in video games and such. There is literally nowhere left to go in terms of video game gameplay evolution.
lolwat. Ridiculous thing to say.
How much has FPS games from doom to COD evolved other than graphics? Not by very much really. Same with 3rd person shooters. Same with racing games, same with many many genres, the only one that has actually evolved any has to be the RPG's. Other than that. There isn't much to video game gameplay evolution until we hit virtual reality. THEN things will get very interesting.
Obviously both, but looking back at the games I play, story is the most important factor for me. Multiplayer games I've spent a lot of time on are all about gameplay though.
Both need to continue to evolve. If we only made story telling better we'd just be watching a movie while pressing a button to make the next cut scene happen, hardly any point in calling games as games anymore.
If we focused on gameplay we would be left with games like pac man, street fighter or the versus component of starcraft 2 for example, no narrative to give the player any motivations or emotional investment, hence losing a lot of appeal and consumers cause not everyone can get into competitive games.
Both, but I'd rather play a fun game with a shitty story than a terrible game with a great story.
Other way around for me. Mainly because I actually like maturity in my video games.
lol
What is wrong with keeping the current gameplay we got now. (which honestly has barely anywhere to go due to it being capable of doing everything nowadays.) and wanting more stories in video games, which is the main reason people SHOULD play video games. Video games without stories are shit, Tetris, shit. Pong, shit. Combat, shit. I would rather have a crap story in a video game than one that does not exist, I at least can respect a dev for TRYING to do something that is mature for once.
Which would you rather have? Mario or Bioshock. I choose the smarter of the two Bioshock.
If I want a good story then I can read a book or watch a movie. Books and movies, on the other hand, can't provide any kind of gameplay experience whatsoever.
I've also seen some of my favorite series of games be nearly ruined by story. Take Mega Man X for example. In the very first game you just push start and BAM! YOU'RE SHOOTING ROBOTS! WHY? BECAUSE FUCK THEM, THAT'S WHY! That game is a classic. It never needed any kind of premise beyond "shoot the bad robots" but then they started trying to add one in anyways. They threw in anime cutscenes that sucked and tacked on crappy stories about robots having a revolution or something? I don't really know. I never cared. As the series progressed and more crappy story popped up, the gameplay suffered. Would the gameplay have been as bad if they hadn't bothered trying to add in any story elements and just focued on making the game fun? It's not a guarantee, but the odds are much better it would have been.
If I want a good story then I can read a book or watch a movie. Books and movies, on the other hand, can't provide any kind of gameplay experience whatsoever.
I've also seen some of my favorite series of games be nearly ruined by story. Take Mega Man X for example. In the very first game you just push start and BAM! YOU'RE SHOOTING ROBOTS! WHY? BECAUSE FUCK THEM, THAT'S WHY! That game is a classic. It never needed any kind of premise beyond "shoot the bad robots" but then they started trying to add one in anyways. They threw in anime cutscenes that sucked and tacked on crappy stories about robots having a revolution or something? I don't really know. I never cared. As the series progressed and more crappy story popped up, the gameplay suffered. Would the gameplay have been as bad if they hadn't bothered trying to add in any story elements and just focued on making the game fun? It's not a guarantee, but the odds are much better it would have been.
First paragraph is bullshit incarnate. Pure bullshit. That saying in the first sentence deserves to be banned for how fucking stupid it truly is.
Second paragraph you go on such a tirade against... megaman that I don't even know or want to know what you are talking about because I can tell you are saying bullshit just to piss people off.
I am not saying gameplay should be bad. but it is unimportant nowadays compared to stories thanks to all the video games that have come before to show us what we did right or wrong on a constant basis. Might as well copy the best gameplay and create an amazing fucking story than anything else anymore.
When video games can contain more words and pages than War and Peace. we are reading a book, it just happens to be interactive. Also story in video games is just as good if not better than other mediums now, saying it isn't is bullshit and we ALL know it.
I think it's more important that we have fewer tentpole/AAA/franchise titles and more quality and variety across the board.
Thanks for articulating what I was struggling to say.
The last popular game I played and can remember if had a pretty good story was Bioshock. Alan Wake was pretty good, but didn't sell as well as the bigger names. I feel stories definitely needs to be improved.
How much can gameplay evolve anymore? Let me ask you that question, with how we are already are able to interact with everything in video games and such. There is literally nowhere left to go in terms of video game gameplay evolution.
lolwat. Ridiculous thing to say.
How much has FPS games from doom to COD evolved other than graphics? Not by very much really. Same with 3rd person shooters. Same with racing games, same with many many genres, the only one that has actually evolved any has to be the RPG's. Other than that. There isn't much to video game gameplay evolution until we hit virtual reality. THEN things will get very interesting.
Huh. I didn't think it would be possible for you to out-ridiculous your first post in this tree, yet here we are.
If I want a good story then I can read a book or watch a movie. Books and movies, on the other hand, can't provide any kind of gameplay experience whatsoever.
I've also seen some of my favorite series of games be nearly ruined by story. Take Mega Man X for example. In the very first game you just push start and BAM! YOU'RE SHOOTING ROBOTS! WHY? BECAUSE FUCK THEM, THAT'S WHY! That game is a classic. It never needed any kind of premise beyond "shoot the bad robots" but then they started trying to add one in anyways. They threw in anime cutscenes that sucked and tacked on crappy stories about robots having a revolution or something? I don't really know. I never cared. As the series progressed and more crappy story popped up, the gameplay suffered. Would the gameplay have been as bad if they hadn't bothered trying to add in any story elements and just focued on making the game fun? It's not a guarantee, but the odds are much better it would have been.
First paragraph is bullshit incarnate. Pure bullshit. That saying in the first sentence deserves to be banned for how fucking stupid it truly is.
Second paragraph you go on such a tirade against... megaman that I don't even know or want to know what you are talking about because I can tell you are saying bullshit just to piss people off.
I am not saying gameplay should be bad. but it is unimportant nowadays compared to stories thanks to all the video games that have come before to show us what we did right or wrong on a constant basis. Might as well copy the best gameplay and create an amazing fucking story than anything else anymore.
I think you're being a smidge overzealous in your disagreeing with me. How is saying I can read a book if I want a good story bullshit?
My "tirade against megaman" as you put it was an example of how as story increased in a series, gameplay declined in quality. I don't care if you don't agree but simply calling it bullshit doesn't exactly render it invalid.
I'm not saying stories should be bad either, but there's a time and a place for them. They don't belong in all games.
How much can gameplay evolve anymore? Let me ask you that question, with how we are already are able to interact with everything in video games and such. There is literally nowhere left to go in terms of video game gameplay evolution.
lolwat. Ridiculous thing to say.
How much has FPS games from doom to COD evolved other than graphics? Not by very much really. Same with 3rd person shooters. Same with racing games, same with many many genres, the only one that has actually evolved any has to be the RPG's. Other than that. There isn't much to video game gameplay evolution until we hit virtual reality. THEN things will get very interesting.
Huh. I didn't think it would be possible for you to out-ridiculous your first post in this tree, yet here we are.
Realistically, the only real evolutionary changes in gameplay is just more features. That is really it. Sure Motion gaming was going to be huge but... we all realize it wasn't.
Story is more important than gameplay in this current generation and even next gen. If a game doesn't have a good story, why even play it if you get nothing in return? It makes no sense that people say gameplay first and that fucking horrible saying like I mention before. Mainly because if video games are mature, stories should be taken more fucking seriously for once and actually fucking defended which I am doing because all of you are too chicken shit to do so and fucking defend a great medium for what it does instead of dreaming of what it is going to be in the future when it already has fucking happened!
The gameplay and overall way the game is designed needs evolution more then narrative. As a medium what Video Games excel at is the interactive part of it. Not enough games these days are doing something interesting and unique on that side of things; how many corridor shooters do we need?
I do think their is room to grow in narritive and Video Games can do great things with story telling. Heavy Rain is a example of that. The problem is that often times this gen the thread seems to be focus on story and scripted events while not putting the same effort into the core gameplay design.
It is unfortunate that so many people want games to evolve this way. Look at the success of Uncharted, Mass Effect and of course Call of Duty as proof of that.
If I want a good story then I can read a book or watch a movie. Books and movies, on the other hand, can't provide any kind of gameplay experience whatsoever.
I've also seen some of my favorite series of games be nearly ruined by story. Take Mega Man X for example. In the very first game you just push start and BAM! YOU'RE SHOOTING ROBOTS! WHY? BECAUSE FUCK THEM, THAT'S WHY! That game is a classic. It never needed any kind of premise beyond "shoot the bad robots" but then they started trying to add one in anyways. They threw in anime cutscenes that sucked and tacked on crappy stories about robots having a revolution or something? I don't really know. I never cared. As the series progressed and more crappy story popped up, the gameplay suffered. Would the gameplay have been as bad if they hadn't bothered trying to add in any story elements and just focued on making the game fun? It's not a guarantee, but the odds are much better it would have been.
First paragraph is bullshit incarnate. Pure bullshit. That saying in the first sentence deserves to be banned for how fucking stupid it truly is.
Second paragraph you go on such a tirade against... megaman that I don't even know or want to know what you are talking about because I can tell you are saying bullshit just to piss people off.
I am not saying gameplay should be bad. but it is unimportant nowadays compared to stories thanks to all the video games that have come before to show us what we did right or wrong on a constant basis. Might as well copy the best gameplay and create an amazing fucking story than anything else anymore.
I think you're being a smidge overzealous in your disagreeing with me. How is saying I can read a book if I want a good story bullshit?
My "tirade against megaman" as you put it was an example of how as story increased in a series, gameplay declined in quality. I don't care if you don't agree but simply calling it bullshit doesn't exactly render it invalid.
I'm not saying stories should be bad either, but there's a time and a place for them. They don't belong in all games.
Because you can get amazing stories from video games too. It's just people like you don't even know what a story even is because of either hatred or you still think the medium as young and not worthy. Either way, get rid of those views because that just makes you entirely childish when it comes to the actuallity that there are hundreds to thousands of video games with great stories out there.
Again. Who even cares about Megaman anymore? Capcom doesn't.
Video games without stories is like a DVD player without a lens to read discs, it just doesn't work and should be trashed.
I vote gameplay since I can still play XCOM:UFO defence (or Simcity 4 or Midieval Total War 2) today and it still has some of the best gameplay ever without any story.
I do like a good story since FO:NV and HL2 are probably two of my favorite games since they mix great gameplay and story.
@Jay444111 said:
@Jimbo said:
@Jay444111 said:
How much can gameplay evolve anymore? Let me ask you that question, with how we are already are able to interact with everything in video games and such. There is literally nowhere left to go in terms of video game gameplay evolution.
lolwat. Ridiculous thing to say.
How much has FPS games from doom to COD evolved other than graphics? Not by very much really. Same with 3rd person shooters. Same with racing games, same with many many genres, the only one that has actually evolved any has to be the RPG's. Other than that. There isn't much to video game gameplay evolution until we hit virtual reality. THEN things will get very interesting.
Portal franchise, Bioshock and that outlier Minecraft beg to differ.
I vote gameplay since I can still play XCOM:UFO defence (or Simcity 4 or Midieval Total War 2) today and it still has some of the best gameplay ever without any story.
I do like a good story since FO:NV and HL2 are probably two of my favorite games since they mix great gameplay and story.
@Jay444111 said:
@Jimbo said:
@Jay444111 said:
How much can gameplay evolve anymore? Let me ask you that question, with how we are already are able to interact with everything in video games and such. There is literally nowhere left to go in terms of video game gameplay evolution.
lolwat. Ridiculous thing to say.
How much has FPS games from doom to COD evolved other than graphics? Not by very much really. Same with 3rd person shooters. Same with racing games, same with many many genres, the only one that has actually evolved any has to be the RPG's. Other than that. There isn't much to video game gameplay evolution until we hit virtual reality. THEN things will get very interesting.
Portal franchise, Bioshock and that outlier Minecraft beg to differ.
Prey came up with portals first in their prototype phases in the later 90's. Bioshock happened with System shock 2 in the 90's. Minecraft isn't knew to the endless world of blocks thing either, I know there is another game that did it earlier but wasn't even close to as famous.
Basically, no evolution there. just the same old same old. Just with new paint to make people think it has advanced.
I came from a time where story exposition in videogames was limited to the instruction booklet. Therefore it's always taken a back seat to the gameplay with me.
I came from a time where story exposition in videogames was limited to the instruction booklet. Therefore it's always taken a back seat to the gameplay with me.
Yep, now I know where the gameplay only people are coming from, Retro games they grew up on. I finally found out now, thank you, play your old unevolved video games that even a monkey could understand and leave ones like Bioshock for us people that are willing to play amazing stories.
@DonutFever said:
Games play fine now. I don't think I've ever seen a GREAT game story,
You must never have actually played a single video game then.
How much can gameplay evolve anymore? Let me ask you that question, with how we are already are able to interact with everything in video games and such. There is literally nowhere left to go in terms of video game gameplay evolution.
lolwat. Ridiculous thing to say.
How much has FPS games from doom to COD evolved other than graphics? Not by very much really. Same with 3rd person shooters. Same with racing games, same with many many genres, the only one that has actually evolved any has to be the RPG's. Other than that. There isn't much to video game gameplay evolution until we hit virtual reality. THEN things will get very interesting.
Huh. I didn't think it would be possible for you to out-ridiculous your first post in this tree, yet here we are.
Realistically, the only real evolutionary changes in gameplay is just more features. That is really it. Sure Motion gaming was going to be huge but... we all realize it wasn't.
Story is more important than gameplay in this current generation and even next gen. If a game doesn't have a good story, why even play it if you get nothing in return? It makes no sense that people say gameplay first and that fucking horrible saying like I mention before. Mainly because if video games are mature, stories should be taken more fucking seriously for once and actually fucking defended which I am doing because all of you are too chicken shit to do so and fucking defend a great medium for what it does instead of dreaming of what it is going to be in the future when it already has fucking happened!
Well, no, the biggest successes of this generation have been the explosion in popularity of console multiplayer, the widespread adoption of persistent character development in multiplayer and, yes, motion gaming (which was huge). Story has precisely fuck all to do with any of that.
I'm very much pro-story, but to say that gameplay hasn't evolved much (you can't even look up or down in Doom ffs) and has no room for further evolution short of VR, is so blatantly false that it makes me want to dismiss anything you have to say about anything.
I vote gameplay since I can still play XCOM:UFO defence (or Simcity 4 or Midieval Total War 2) today and it still has some of the best gameplay ever without any story.
I do like a good story since FO:NV and HL2 are probably two of my favorite games since they mix great gameplay and story.
@Jay444111 said:
@Jimbo said:
@Jay444111 said:
How much can gameplay evolve anymore? Let me ask you that question, with how we are already are able to interact with everything in video games and such. There is literally nowhere left to go in terms of video game gameplay evolution.
lolwat. Ridiculous thing to say.
How much has FPS games from doom to COD evolved other than graphics? Not by very much really. Same with 3rd person shooters. Same with racing games, same with many many genres, the only one that has actually evolved any has to be the RPG's. Other than that. There isn't much to video game gameplay evolution until we hit virtual reality. THEN things will get very interesting.
Portal franchise, Bioshock and that outlier Minecraft beg to differ.
Prey came up with portals first in their prototype phases in the later 90's. Bioshock happened with System shock 2 in the 90's. Minecraft isn't knew to the endless world of blocks thing either, I know there is another game that did it earlier but wasn't even close to as famous.
Basically, no evolution there. just the same old same old. Just with new paint to make people think it has advanced.
How much can gameplay evolve anymore? Let me ask you that question, with how we are already are able to interact with everything in video games and such. There is literally nowhere left to go in terms of video game gameplay evolution.
lolwat. Ridiculous thing to say.
How much has FPS games from doom to COD evolved other than graphics? Not by very much really. Same with 3rd person shooters. Same with racing games, same with many many genres, the only one that has actually evolved any has to be the RPG's. Other than that. There isn't much to video game gameplay evolution until we hit virtual reality. THEN things will get very interesting.
Huh. I didn't think it would be possible for you to out-ridiculous your first post in this tree, yet here we are.
Realistically, the only real evolutionary changes in gameplay is just more features. That is really it. Sure Motion gaming was going to be huge but... we all realize it wasn't.
Story is more important than gameplay in this current generation and even next gen. If a game doesn't have a good story, why even play it if you get nothing in return? It makes no sense that people say gameplay first and that fucking horrible saying like I mention before. Mainly because if video games are mature, stories should be taken more fucking seriously for once and actually fucking defended which I am doing because all of you are too chicken shit to do so and fucking defend a great medium for what it does instead of dreaming of what it is going to be in the future when it already has fucking happened!
Well, no, the biggest successes of this generation have been the explosion in popularity of console multiplayer, the widespread adoption of persistent character development in multiplayer and, yes, motion gaming (which was huge). Story has precisely fuck all to do with any of that.
I'm very much pro-story, but to say that gameplay hasn't evolved much (you can't even look up or down in Doom ffs) and has no room for further evolution short of VR, is so blatantly false that it makes me want to dismiss anything you have to say about anything.
Wait... you can't look up or down in doom... then what the hell was I playing then????? Because in the doom game I played I could look up and down!
Also true that multiplayer was a big thing, I do doubt the persistent character development thing though for how many MMO's there were back then and most likely did the same thing.
There is also a huge jump in story based video games this gen compared to last. You can tell easily just by looking at any single collection and see this. It seems like people are finally taking games fucking seriously and I am happy for that, but saying stories are useless. (not you, but other people.) makes me think of trailer trash people. I realize that is harsh, but trust me. I KNOW personally.
I came from a time where story exposition in videogames was limited to the instruction booklet. Therefore it's always taken a back seat to the gameplay with me.
Yep, now I know where the gameplay only people are coming from, Retro games they grew up on. I finally found out now, thank you, play your old unevolved video games that even a monkey could understand and leave ones like Bioshock for us people that are willing to play amazing stories.
@DonutFever said:
Games play fine now. I don't think I've ever seen a GREAT game story,
You must never have actually played a single video game then.
You know, Bioshock was pretty good for a good long while. But then it went on too long and got quote unquote 'video gamey' and ended in a bullshit boss fight that kinda soured me on the whole premise. That's the big problem with a lot of games, they don't know how to pull their shit together and have a satisfying ending that doesn't devolve into batshit crazytime or some lame cliffhanger to leave stuff open for a sequel. At least, in my opinion.
I vote gameplay since I can still play XCOM:UFO defence (or Simcity 4 or Midieval Total War 2) today and it still has some of the best gameplay ever without any story.
I do like a good story since FO:NV and HL2 are probably two of my favorite games since they mix great gameplay and story.
@Jay444111 said:
@Jimbo said:
@Jay444111 said:
How much can gameplay evolve anymore? Let me ask you that question, with how we are already are able to interact with everything in video games and such. There is literally nowhere left to go in terms of video game gameplay evolution.
lolwat. Ridiculous thing to say.
How much has FPS games from doom to COD evolved other than graphics? Not by very much really. Same with 3rd person shooters. Same with racing games, same with many many genres, the only one that has actually evolved any has to be the RPG's. Other than that. There isn't much to video game gameplay evolution until we hit virtual reality. THEN things will get very interesting.
Portal franchise, Bioshock and that outlier Minecraft beg to differ.
Prey came up with portals first in their prototype phases in the later 90's. Bioshock happened with System shock 2 in the 90's. Minecraft isn't knew to the endless world of blocks thing either, I know there is another game that did it earlier but wasn't even close to as famous.
Basically, no evolution there. just the same old same old. Just with new paint to make people think it has advanced.
In RPG evolution, I meant going from turn based, to active time, to real time mainly. They steadily do different things to try and be different and are actually willing to take risks to evolve themselves. With most other genres, you don't really see that many risks being made at all. Also FF did have evolution in it. Active time battle systems was kinda a huge thing for them back in the SNES era.
There isn't much evolution to RPG's overall, but it is there, unlike many other genres like racing or FPS.
I came from a time where story exposition in videogames was limited to the instruction booklet. Therefore it's always taken a back seat to the gameplay with me.
Yep, now I know where the gameplay only people are coming from, Retro games they grew up on. I finally found out now, thank you, play your old unevolved video games that even a monkey could understand and leave ones like Bioshock for us people that are willing to play amazing stories.
@DonutFever said:
Games play fine now. I don't think I've ever seen a GREAT game story,
You must never have actually played a single video game then.
You know, Bioshock was pretty good for a good long while. But then it went on too long and got quote unquote 'video gamey' and ended in a bullshit boss fight that kinda soured me on the whole premise. That's the big problem with a lot of games, they don't know how to pull their shit together and have a satisfying ending that doesn't devolve into batshit crazytime or some lame cliffhanger to leave stuff open for a sequel. At least, in my opinion.
You want to know why ME3's ending wasn't good? It was because they thought it was to 'video gamey' to make what they were originally intending, then we got the crap ending. Stick to video gamey sometimes is a good idea... sometimes.
Also there is a shitton of video games that end wonderfully and have great stories. Doesn't matter if a story gets batshit insane at the end, as long as it can do it WELL is the more important thing.
Check out Nier, amazing video game with amazing story is amazing.
Games play fine now. I don't think I've ever seen a GREAT game story,
Nier
Not to derail the argument this thread has become but I'm genuinely curious what some people see in the story for Nier? Granted I never seen the other endings because I did not want to play through the last five hours again. Do you think that is why I never "got it"?
@Jay444111: You're a regular of 4chan. Nobody with any sense of reason takes anything you say seriously. Go convince a child to kill himself like your kind does.
@Jay444111: You're a regular of 4chan. Nobody with any sense of reason takes anything you say seriously. Go convince a child to kill himself like your kind does.
I have never actually posted... or hell, VISIT 4chan in my entire existence. I have only heard how bad it was so I stay away like a hunter stays away from a grizzly bear. Also I would never harm a child in my life, sure I do believe that they should fix their own mistakes and should take responsibility, but that shit!? dude, WTF is wrong with you?
Years ago I would have said story in a heartbeat, but the older I get the less and less I care about the stories in games. If it's good that's a very big plus, but I get enough good stories from comics, Tv and movies. The things David Jaffe has said about this stuff recently are pretty similar to how I feel.
What I want to see is more exploration of the unique ways that gaming and gaming alone can create stories through gameplay and setting, rather than looking at stories and gameplay as these mutually exclusive components
Years ago I would have said story in a heartbeat, but the older I get the less and less I care about the stories in games. If it's good that's a very big plus, but I get enough good stories from comics, Tv and movies. The things David Jaffe has said about this stuff recently are pretty similar to how I feel.
David Jaffe is a troll who is going to make casual games. everyone booed him offstage and pretty much any self respecting designer hates the guys guts.
Just saying. Not caring about stories in video games though even though you can get good stories from them as other mediums is... unholy amounts of wrong. Unholy amounts.
What I want to see is more exploration of the unique ways that gaming and gaming alone can create stories through gameplay and setting, rather than looking at stories and gameplay as these mutually exclusive components
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