Vegetarians/Vegans

"JudgeDread said:

"Though if I ever diced to eat meat again i will  probably get it on my own, I have a license for hunting Elk, or buy from other hunters I know."

Yeah I'm a hunter. I posted it in the other thread about humanely killing animals. I said what i've killed, and how often. But those vegans are crazy people. I looked up what a vegan was, and that's just insane. It's impossible to have zero impact."

 humans have been carnivores for billions of years,

I have no problem with vegetarians, it's a life-style choice for them and I respect that. However, I have no time for preachy and moralistic vegetarians. Organizations like PETA should either be taught how to respect others or put out to pasture. My own view is that we did not evolve canine teeth, molars and pepsinogen in our stomach to not eat meat. If ingesting meat caused more harm than good, those aspects of our anatomy would have become vestigial, like the appendix.

Some may say the negative psychological effects out weighthe positive physical effects but for most this isn't a factor. Animals eat animals and this is how most people, including myself, justifytheir meat-eating habits. We are animals and all that separates us is our cognitive thought. People have said that they draw the line at pigs as they have superior intelligence and are therefore self-aware. But how do you define self-aware? Most scientists rely on the mirror test, which is where an animal can identify itself in a mirror. So far, only elephants, dolphins and some apes can pass this test. I can relate to why people would object to eating an intelligent animal, I myself would draw the line at that point. But how can you decide what is intelligent and what is not? Does that mean non-intelligent animals should be offered up to the food chain?

Shazam: Survival of the fittest. So yes, logically they'll be eaten more

But surely most intelligent does not always denote strongest? Animals must rely on instinct and survival skills. Strength,speed,endurance and camouflage are factors too.

We may have been intelligent enough to invent a gun to defend ourselves but not everyone carries around a gun. When it's just you squaring up to a Grizzly, algebraic equations won't exactly help you.

I am a bit all over the shop on this one, so you may need a map to follow me.

"inkeiren said:

"Hitchenson said:

"

Why not eat Bacon? What else do Pigs offer?... charasmatic skills? No.
I can understand not eating meat... to an extent. I still think it's retarded to not, however.

OM NOM NOM! MEAT GOOD! OM NOM NOM!

"

I understand your train of thought, but pigs are just too smart for me to eat. To aware of themselves. You have to agree that there is a relationship between intelligence and how humane it is to kill or eat something. For example, you would not think it is humane to kill a human and eat it, right? You would probably also not kill a monkey and eat it, as it is self-aware. I think that you and I draw a line at a different area. I just happen to draw the line low enough that I don't eat bacon."

I dunno, I'm quite partial to the odd human here and there ;]I do understand what you are saying, but to be honest. Love my meat far too much.I do think animals should be killed humanely however (yes, animals CAN be killed humanely) and I think factory farming of animals should be illegal.I'm all for animal rights, but as long as the animal is treated right, and not brutally killed. I personally don't see a problem....animal testing however, kinda agree if it's for medicine. But for fucking shampoo? That's just sick..."

I respect vegetarians - ones that keep to themselves, anyway. Maintaining that sort of lifestyle is difficult - fewer selections at restaurants (sometimes no selections, depending on where you go), more care when shopping, and you've got to pay attention to what you take in every day to make sure you've got the right balance of nutrients.

Thing is, most people could benefit from paying attention to what they eat. It's not meat that's the problem, it's the mindset that a person can shovel whatever the hell they want in their mouth and remain healthy. I think that plays a large role in studies that show vegetarians are healthier - I don't think it's due to their diet, it's due to the way they're essentially forced to watch every item that goes on their plate.

However, I do not respect vegetarians and vegans who don't shut the hell up about their choice. Ones who openly condemn the eating of meat, ones who comment on my lunch when I'm at a restaurant, ones that hover in the meat department and rain tales of slaughterhouses at the grocery store like a homeless preacher...those are the ones that I'd love to punch in the face.

There are problems with the livestock industry, sure. There are also a huge number of farms and slaugterhouses that are run extremely efficiently and unless you believe that ending an animal's life in any way is abhorrent, I can't see how people could disagree. Christ, picket Jewish slaughterhouses over standard ones - rather than fire a bolt directly into the brain to kill it instantly they slice the cow's throat. How is that humane?

With an abundance of free range meat (even meat not classified as such if you're familiar with the farm) and healthy meat choices, I don't know how anyone could remain a vegetarian. I don't care if they do, of course, since that means more tasty meat for me.

And like anything, in moderation no food is bad for you. Except calf brains, maybe.

"Hitchenson said:

"

Why not eat Bacon? What else do Pigs offer?... charasmatic skills? No.
I can understand not eating meat... to an extent. I still think it's retarded to not, however.

OM NOM NOM! MEAT GOOD! OM NOM NOM!

"

I understand your train of thought, but pigs are just too smart for me to eat. To aware of themselves. You have to agree that there is a relationship between intelligence and how humane it is to kill or eat something. For example, you would not think it is humane to kill a human and eat it, right? You would probably also not kill a monkey and eat it, as it is self-aware. I think that you and I draw a line at a different area. I just happen to draw the line low enough that I don't eat bacon."

It depends, I know a chick who's vegetarian but eats shit like Reese's cereal for breakfast and deep fat fried eggplant slice sandwiches for lunch.  How the fuck is that healthier than eating meat?  There's no way that shit is healthier than having a 50/50 egg white whole egg omlette for breakfast and a grilled chicken breast sandwich for lunch.

"It depends, I know a chick who's vegetarian but eats shit like Reese's cereal for breakfast and deep fat fried eggplant slice sandwiches for lunch.  How the fuck is that healthier than eating meat?  There's no way that shit is healthier than having a 50/50 egg white whole egg omlette for breakfast and a grilled chicken breast sandwich for lunch."

I didn't know that sentience automatically gave people a reason not to eat animals. Where do people draw the line for awareness? Does the organism have to be self-aware? Plants can adjust to take in more sunlight and some use vines to help them move and stay upright and holy shit a walking tree! So plants are at least somewhat aware of their environments. Is that not enough?

Eating meat isn't a health issue at all. The chances of meat being the cause of any disease is significantly low as long as you can at least balance them with actual balanced diets and exercise. Sure if you eat only meat all day every day and then go sit on your couch chances are some complication will arise as a result but that's hardly the case for anyone.

Also, on the note of why we don't eat monkeys, cats, humans, etc. First of all, think cultural differences people. People in China eat monkey brains, people in Korea eat cats and dogs, and people all over the world still eat dolphin despite the fact that they are one of the more intelligent creatures. As for why we don't eat each other, it started out as an evolutionary instinct. Human population was still small, therefore, do not kill your own kind! It still an evolutionary instinct but dehumanization techniques can be used to get around it (eg - in war, don't tell your soldiers your going to kill a fellow human with a wife and kids waiting for them back home, tell them their going to kill krauts and goddamn dirty commies! Fuck yeah America!) (also, replace firing range targets with human silhouettes, that should do it). But remember every story that's ever been told about someone stranded on a mountaintop somewhere with no food except the still fresh corpses of their dead friends around them. What usually happens is they eat their friends because nutrition is nutrition. Regardless of what your own personal morals are, you're going to die if you don't keep your body fueled.

The thing I don't like is self-important assholes that think the world should run their way and will stop at nothing to make people think their way. I COULD CARE LESS IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO EAT MEAT JUST DON'T FORCE YOUR BELIEFS ON OTHERS. That sentance is in caps so jerks will read it first instead of thinking I'm the asshole.

Bottemline is If your in peta your either one of the assholes stated earlier or just ignorent to what your cause really belives in. I'll give an example: PETA's president was recorded at a press confernce saying quote " If country's didn't devote land for cattle and other gazing animals there'd be over a hundread million arces of grass that could feed almost 500 million humans for a day aposed to the 230 million cattle feed." First and this is me talking again, humans can't diegest grass we like the three other stomach to break it down and second, the cows have to eat something how would taking all the food used to feed the cattle and giving to humans HELP THE FUCKING CATTLE PETA!  But if you just don't eat meat for whatever reason I could care less.

I respect the kind that keep to themselves.  I hate the kind that act like its a religion.  Especially the type who try to say humans are herbivores.  I mean seriously have these people taken high school biology?  I thought it was clear that humans were omnivores.  Especially for the fact we can't digest certain vegetables like grass. 

I personally think both meat and vegetable in moderation is a healthier diet then just non-meat/animal products.  I mean seriously who wants to count up how much protein in nuts or beans that had for the day when you can just eat a piece of steak and call it a day. 

"the cows have to eat something how would taking all the food used to feed the cattle and giving to humans HELP THE FUCKING CATTLE PETA!a."

but the cattle already alive can't just be swept under the rug. Which would mean there'd be a lot of cattle (free range who yes eat grass) that would either starve to death or be forced into care of the pen raised cattle farms which would need a lot more food to feed all of them which would put a great deal of strain on the soy bean and corn crops which We also eat.

I'm basically a meatjettarian, however it's good to eat both I guess and unfair to say you can't because you get protien from meat and other green stuff from vedgetables.

What those people don't understand is that meat from animals isn't muscle, it's filler.  Animals don't need filler.

The only problems I have are with people who try to shove their eating habits on to other people. I don't care if you are vegan/vegetarian or a total carnivore. Let me eat my balanced meal. I don't try to shove my way of eating onto you do I?

The only way you can get enough protein or iron is by eating meat.  There's no other way.  I eat meat everyday and I'm a healthy 225 at 5 foot 10.  If I were to stop eating meat I'd whither away into nothing because I wasn't getting wha my body needs.

putz said:

"The only way you can get enough protein or iron is by eating meat.  There's no other way.  I eat meat everyday and I'm a healthy 225 at 5 foot 10.  If I were to stop eating meat I'd whither away into nothing because I wasn't getting wha my body needs."

I don't think that's even remotely true.  Your weight at your height is actually overweight so it's not actually healthy.

"FiestaUnicorn said:

"

putz said:

"The only way you can get enough protein or iron is by eating meat.  There's no other way.  I eat meat everyday and I'm a healthy 225 at 5 foot 10.  If I were to stop eating meat I'd whither away into nothing because I wasn't getting wha my body needs."

I don't think that's even remotely true.  Your weight at your height is actually overweight so it's not actually healthy.

"

Unless its pure muscle which would be crazy. I am about 5'10 and I only weigh 140."

"Vegetarianism is fundamentally wrong for many reasons. It's not a "choice", it's an illogical argument. 1) Some vegetarians eat poultry, others eat seafood, and still others eat things like eggs. From this fundamental diffraction of views (much like the diffraction of views in religion), it can be concluded that there is no solid basis for vegetarianism, and thus no reasoning involved. Rather it goes by on a case to case, region to region basis with its own, non mutually agreeing justifications. By this point alone, there can be no solid argument formed for vegetarianism.2) It is ridiculous to think that you can separate sentient from nonsentient. What makes you think eating a broccoli is any more ethical than eating pigs? 3) Human beings evolved from eating meat. Our brains would be nowhere near as large if we had stayed with eating seeds and roots. In continuum, we still require meat for vital nutrients and normal brain development. Thus the "brain damaged" comment. 4) Recent research is concluding (although it has long been posited) that vegetarians are more susceptible to cancer and other disease. This is due to higher susceptibility to DNA mismatch mutation due to irregular diet and nutrient isoforms from a lack of meat. Vegetarianism is thus irrational and even harmful. Those condoning it are essentially condoning a dangerous cult-like belief that is not founded on reason or evidence. "

I'm actually very strong.  Part of that is because I eat meat.  I get enough protein and everything else I need from it.  We as people have always eaten meat.  Just look how healthy people in america are.  We're living longer and eating more meat than ever before.

Not sure there are many people who think humans have been around for billions of years, in quotes or out of quotes

Humans are Omnivores. It's not a choice, we need both. Just eating one or the other is ridiculous. As for Vegans? Well, if it was natural, nature would have invented all those vitamin supplements you have to take.

Discussions about vegetarianism often seem to devolve into name calling, which is completely non-constructive.

Let me lay everything out for you in an impartial way. (I by the way am not a vegetarian, I eat meat on a semi-regular basis):

• There are strong indicators that vegetarianism and by extension caloric restriction have real health benefits. Of course, this does not mean that one is going to be unhealthy because they eat meat- health is much more complex, and involves many other factors.

• The fact that we have canine teeth, ability to metabolize meat, etc, does NOT mean that you are somehow 'meant' to do so. Evolution does not have a motive or agenda. The fact is that we are self aware, and have the ability to choose whether or not we wish too. Same goes for 'natural order' claims.

• Meat production does have a real environmental impact (although I'm sure some people will dispute that).

• Meat is tasty.

• There are relevant humanitarian reasons for not eating meat: the working conditions of people working in the meat industry are often extremely poor. Of course, for that to matter, you have to actually care about such things (which many people don't wish to).

• The more common arguments for vegetarianism are often somewhat weak, often coming from a lack of understanding of ideas such as self-awareness, and a tendency to ascribe human qualities to animals. Some of the more general reasons however have a certain validity, such as a wish not inflict unnecessary suffering in any way (as in some Eastern philosophies). Of course, for many people these arguments are simply not practical or pragmatic.

• Meat DOES have a high caloric density compared to plants, which makes it a practical option for many poorer people- this applies even more so to fish and seafood.

• It's annoying and ignorant when either side generalizes about the other, or tries to convert them-  meat eaters calling vegetarians crazy or stupid, vegetarians calling meat-eaters 'murderers', etc. Proselytizing on either side is a waste of time.

Just let people do their own thing. Simple as that.

I do not mind them as long as they do not try to push their beliefs off on me. 

You can be perfectly healthy with a balanced diet that consists of nothing but plant based foods.  You can't be healthy eating nothing but meat.

Vegetarian chicks taste better when you're going down on them, in my experience.

Try having a close friend go vegetarian because of his girlfriend.

"Hey bro, you wanna come over and hang, cook up some pizza?"

"Uh...I can't eat pizza. Only if you make it with cheese only."

"..."