The Wrestling Discussion Thread

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Stephen_Von_Cloud

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Given how many people are testing positive in basketball I would not be surprised if there's more than crowd-free shut downs soon. I would also love the distraction, even a crowd free one. One tough thing about right now is that even a lot of my "get away from life and the news" hobbies are really effected by all this. Like Giant Bomb, the Celtics and NBA basketball, AEW, and going out to see live music. Even podcasts I listen to are all about it in some way.

Could really use a good episode of Dynamite tonight.

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Shiftygism

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#43952 Shiftygism  Online

Wrestlemania now a two night event hosted by Gronk.

Ugh.

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Stephen_Von_Cloud

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Gronk as your host for two huge broadcasts lol.

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Roomrunner

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I feel like Jeff Bakalar needs to see that Colt Cabana promo where he snubs Sabin. I felt a spiritual kinship there.

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Shiftygism

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#43955 Shiftygism  Online

Did AEW just prove WWE misused Brodie Lee?

Yeahyeahyeahyeah...

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Shiftygism

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#43957 Shiftygism  Online

The Lance Archer/Jake Roberts vignette was fantastic. Jake looking over a backwoods battle royal from a rocking chair, great image.

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Stephen_Von_Cloud

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They've handled everything in ring very well given the circumstances and they nailed the Exalted One and the Lance Archer segment plus Hardy at the end. Great stuff AEW.

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Gundato

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#43959  Edited By Gundato

So... AEW

Let's start with the good:

  • The first minute or so of Cody's speech was awesome and had that nice mix of vulnerability and pomposity that makes me like Cody on the mic.
  • Having the wrestlers as the audience was similarly amazing. MJF, as always, stole the show and he made me give a shit about Sean Spears in a way that I don't think I ever have before.
  • Dark Order probably got screwed by Marty not going AEW and it was way too drawn out. But I like Brodie in that role and he seems like the right kind of powerful and menacing that could work.
  • I giggled way too much at the Best Friends doing an elbow bump
  • Matt Hardy's drone may have gone over the heads of a lot of viewers watching but it was fucking awesome. And his upper body looks great.
  • Jericho got Coronavirus heat. Jericho got coronavirus heat. That is all
  • The constant references to "the next dynamite" was ominous and sad in a way that really resonated for a lot of reasons.

The bad:

  • JR, Arn, Tully, and Jake should not be there. Probably not Knox or Jericho or Tony either. There is a strong argument there should not be wrestling period (I guess showers and nose swabs could reduce risk drastically) but all of them are very much in the high risk demographic and should not be traveling
  • The next few minutes of Cody's speech where he used the pandemic as a way to pivot into getting the elite back together felt like it was in pretty poor taste
  • Women's match kind of just stopped partway through
  • How fucked up are Matt's legs? I loved him appearing but I don't want him to be the weak link of B&G.

overall: I had a blast and really enjoyed it and am glad it was on. But it probably shouldn't have been and I hope they take better precautions whenever the next dynamite is

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Dizzyhippos

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The imaginary pops in my head tonight were huge, if nothing else AEW put on a good show that was a good distraction from the stuff going on right now. I hope the Butcher isnt hurt and just forgot there was supposed to be a dive.

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Dizzyhippos

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According to Meltzer AEW did not tape anything for next week.

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Retris

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Number one thought after Dynamite: Fans chanting Tarzan Boy at Jungle Boy needs to become a thing. It was fucking hilarious that the faces were doing it FOR ALMOST THE WHOLE MATCH.

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Shiftygism

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#43963 Shiftygism  Online

Randy Orton bitchin' he isn't on the new Unnecessary-Mania graphic when his match with Edge hasn't even been signed story-wise yet.

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halfpastwhenever

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What did you guys think if the Lance Archer vignette? I liked it, I though it was very smart to throw a segment like that in during an empty arena show.

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halfpastwhenever

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The Lance Archer/Jake Roberts vignette was fantastic. Jake looking over a backwoods battle royal from a rocking chair, great image.

didn't see this comment lol. just to add the overhead shot of the ring was great - I heard during the Jericho podcast with Matt Hardy that it was filmed at Darby Allins gaff.

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Retris

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@halfpastwhenever: Not only that, I feel like they should do more of vignettes like that. PAC's ones have been tremendous, same for Darby Allin's, and the Butcher and the Blade one really sold the team on a lot of people I feel. So did the Dark Order one. They should really take lessons from TNA from that period when they did UFC like promo packages for wrestlers and of course, from Lucha Underground and Joey Janela.

I think they're afraid of the stigma WWE has of everything being constant video packages and recaps and are too afraid to try it out. They could still maintain their "sports like" appearance and even enhance it with packages. The Dynamites I feel like have been almost too jam packed with longer matches. Pace them out. Feature the jobber squads even on Dynamite, because someone like Pretty Pete Avalon can make a shorter match still entertaining with the Librarian shtick.

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Shiftygism

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#43967  Edited By Shiftygism  Online

Hulk Hogan is turning into Randy Savage, wtf...

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Dizzyhippos

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Gundato

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So I saw the latest Meltzer spam

Is WWE really doing crowd reaction shots on empty chairs in the audience? Or was that an exaggeration?

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Shiftygism

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#43970 Shiftygism  Online

Pretty sure it was an exaggeration, I've fast forwarded most of the shows though.

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Dizzyhippos

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The first round of the Cinderella Tournament is very good.

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Milkman

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Finished watching the Benoit Viceland documentary, which is obviously extremely heavy and tough to watch (though still mostly very good) but one of the most unexpected reminders from it was just how cool Nancy was. The old photos and footage they show with Kevin Sullivan and in ECW are amazing. They talk about it a bit in the documentary itself but it's such a shame that her legacy got wiped out with Chris.

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Retris

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Adam Page is the millenial Austin. Just think about it: Overlooked and thought to be entitled, incredible workhorse, actually just anxious, drinks a lot to deal with his anxiety, hates neolibs.

I still can't comprehend how he went from guy I didn't understand why they pushed, to one of my favourite current wrestlers so quickly. I knew he could wrestle, but I couldn't get invested in him but they completely changed that.

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redwing42

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@retris: Right there with you on Page. I looked at him and saw another Dolph Ziggler. Pretty good wrestler but nothing interesting about his character at all. While I'm still not a big fan of them painting him as a functional alcoholic (toning it down like 50% would be great), he is a very compelling guy now, and can tell a story in the ring as well as in promos.

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Retris

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Also, Suge D and Ego had really good showings on Dark. Hopefully they both get hired. Suge D is one of the best promos in the business and Ego is still just as good as he was a decade ago when people were saying he was going to be the next big thing before he just completely disappeared off the grid.

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p_p_o_d

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#43976  Edited By p_p_o_d  Online

The venue has officially cancelled NXT UK takeover Dublin.

2 things.

1. It reminded me NXT UK exist and I have zero idea how they are going to cope with the shutdown. Cant exactly fly them to the PC.

2. They really called a PPV in Ireland UK TAKEOVER DUBLIN?

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Dizzyhippos

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marc

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@dizzyhippos: The promo on the drone was hilarious, but boy did they lose me once Matt started teleporting. I enjoyed the Broken Matt stuff on Impact years ago. But teleporting and supernatural pyro powers is the kind of goofy I watch AEW to get away from.

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Retris

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@marc: Same. This is a really bad fit. It would've been perfect on Impact and a great segment, but in AEW it's just garbage.

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Sombre

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Imagine watching Hardy in 2020 and not being embarassed for him

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marc

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@retris: Yeah sadly it just sticks out like a sore thumb in AEW. I was really hoping Matt would do something new.

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Shiftygism

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#43982 Shiftygism  Online

The teleporting entrance was great, also dumb, but they knew it was dumb...and great. Undertaker (and The Fiend) would be infinitely more tolerable if he did the same.

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Jesus_Phish

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Wrestling should never have crowds again.

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Roomrunner

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The teleporting didn't go exactly right. The camera/lighting shifted ever so slightly. But I applaud the effort.

The pyro should have gone further than just Kane style summoning. They should've done reverse flames, Twin Peaks style.

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Stephen_Von_Cloud

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This week's Dynamite lost a lot to me from having no crowd. If they could have anyone out there giving a reaction I think it would help, as it did last week. I know they are following direction but I don't see how people crammed in a tiny room are safer... wouldn't being spread out in the crowd be safer?

I was only following some of the Broken Matt Hardy stuff while it was going and now that he's in AEW, so far it's a bit of a mixed bag. I appreciate it in theory but it doesn't really hit for me, being either particularly funny or interesting.

I am fine with him being kind of a weird character and I think some people should relax as far as I think this week they are making the best of a bad situation. i didn't like the teleporting myself but you obviously can't do that in a arena with a crowd so I'm letting them have their fun. We'll see how it goes.

I thought Brody looked good in his squash match and I liked his gear, plus the vignette mocking Vince, always down for that. I am interested to see where his character lands in feel.

Kenny and Sammy was a pretty great match but really lost a lot with no crowd. It feels hard to keep a match going for as long as it did without one, or again some life in the arena.

Another arm triangle from Hager. Yawn.

The commentary was decent but definitely missed the whole crew.

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Stephen_Von_Cloud

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devise22

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Yeah it was an odder Dynamite this week. I'm still really liking the Jake stuff, and I absolutely love all the inside joke shots that Brodie Lee's character is showing towards Vince. It totally works. Kenny/Sammy was a good match that probably would be more remembered or notable if they had a crowd. Them not being able to have wrestlers ringside was noticeable this week though, and I thought Tony and Co did the best they could on commentary, it was a fun approach, but it's starting to also get to the point where you wonder how much they should just film more behind the scenes stuff to show for the program, and then maybe only run one wrestling match a week.

But yeah I don't really get Matt Hardy. Like I never have, his popularity I mean. In the old days as a tag team sure fine they were fine. But then Jeff went through problem after problem and suddenly Matt started embracing internet meme style bullshit and everyone loved him and I was sitting there not getting it the whole time. It always seemed too dumb to me. Like the Scary Movie style humour. Sometimes you can go TOO far in on the joke, what your presenting has to still feel like it's attempting to rise above, or be it's own thing. Like the Brodie Lee/Exalted one stuff. It clearly gets inspiration. But at some point everything about Hardy's shtick just seems like a crazy thread on Reddit and it all breaks for me. Kudos to those who loved his wild shit here and having him teleport to the ring is obviously something you can only do with the empty arena set up. So I guess props to them from a creativity standpoint?

But yeah I agree with the sentiments that it felt like it belonged in TNA, not AEW. AEW's humor is generally a bit more, take itself somewhat seriously at times, with the odd wink and nod at kayfabe, insider wrestling knowledge, that stuff. Matt Hardy being a magician pretty much goes from winking and nodding to a stand up comedy act. But sometimes the "it's so stupid that's why it's funny" stuff can just come across as plain stupid.

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Shiftygism

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#43988  Edited By Shiftygism  Online

Roman's a no go for Mania, Goldberg getting a replacement opponent.

PleasebeKeithLeePleasebeKeithLee

Hell...

Give it to Big E. It'd be fitting after what happened last year with Kofi, and Bill's like his favorite wrestler.

EDIT: It's Strowman apparently. Hopefully Bill squashes him after the shit he said earlier this week.

Oh well.

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Dizzyhippos

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#43989  Edited By Dizzyhippos
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Stephen_Von_Cloud

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lol at that post but I do like that its walking back things a bit from being too whacky storyline wise. Good move.

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devise22

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@stephen_von_cloud: Yeah it's one of the big things I like most about AEW, even when I don't like it. They wade through the hyperbole to find the actually criticisms of the product and attempt to band-aid or patch them up. I've said it before but there is a real "Connected Universe" aspect to it that you see other such franchises also do, the retconning of errors to make sense of criticisms that, can work. The Nightmare collective, adding some substance to the Butcher/Blade after that awful debut, and even making Dark Order tweaks are all some examples.

Walking back the teleportation probably doesn't sell me on Hardy's gimmick, but it at least makes it far less preposterous and justifies them using it as a gimmick, him projecting fake images of himself around.

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Retris

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Loading Video...

What a great hype video from WWE.

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Retris

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AEW is coming up with a TV-title. Yawn. Hopefully they come up with some interesting stipulations for the title, like the NWA one about getting a world title shot with enough defenses.

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Stephen_Von_Cloud

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@retris: I did see some in the company talk about it being important and not letting it just be a busy work title so there's that. I was shocked they are just saying it'll lead up to all in confidently as well. It's more than a month away but still seems risky.

@devise22: totally agreed. When they ditched the Nightmare Collective after weeks of it, I was impressed. Yeah they put something shitty out there to begin with but they were not afraid to listen to feedback and bail out.

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not_a_bumblebee

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@retris said:

AEW is coming up with a TV-title. Yawn. Hopefully they come up with some interesting stipulations for the title, like the NWA one about getting a world title shot with enough defenses.

AEW has an amazing roster filled with incredible talent who are not to be disparaging but probably shouldn't hold the top belt this early in the company's history. I would love to see either Sammy Guevara or Darby Allin as the inaugural champion for all the amazing work they have been doing since the launch of AEW.

I'd also love it if they have the WCW/NWA 10/15 minute time limit rule because it would be a great way to get over a wrestler by having a draw instead of a straight up loss from a competitive match.

Here's a fun little question: Who was your favorite tag team as a kid?

Mine was the Steiner Brothers mainly because of all the crazy moves Scott Steiner would do before he became a nearly immobile roid monster.

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Stephen_Von_Cloud

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The Darby Allin / Vanilla Vance match on Dark tonight was really good. They were all jobber matches except his lol no surprise and pretty cool to me. Vance looked good though.

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redwing42

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#43997  Edited By redwing42

@not_a_bumblebee: Didn't watch a ton of NWA/WCW as a kid, but I did like the Steiners when I saw them. WWF would be either the Killer Bs or the Hart Foundation. I would say the Jumping Bomb Angels, but they weren't around long enough.

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Dizzyhippos

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Well we knew what a Hoss match was before, now we know what a YEET match is.

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not_a_bumblebee

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Now that is how you do a squash match! I loved that they gave Marko some hope spots in a 4 minute squash before being absolutely destroyed. I'm glad non-NJPW watching wrestling fans are finally getting a chance to see what a kickass hoss Lance has become. Dude has come a long way from his TNA and very brief WWE runs as a generic big guy with a tramp stamp.

Also did anyone see that scary superplex Trent gave Omega? I don't know if the ropes were too loose or Trent just didn't have good footing but thankfully it didn't seem like either guy was injured.

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Stephen_Von_Cloud

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The show gained a lot from a crowd again so that was nice, although that was because it was in GA and I guess they are on a strict lockdown now so we will see what happens next.

Jayy was pretty good in her match. I think if AEW can bring on some women they've had featured for small stints like Jayy i think, Abadon, Priestly and Hayter and keep developing who they already have with Rose, Statlander and Ford they can have a good womens division but they need more time to actually have matches also, which hopefully will be created by the second show.

For me I am happy to watch Dynamite and Dark but if there's 3 shows that is too much (and if you know about the business, raises the grind on the wrestlers most likely) so I worry about the bloat. I would take a better second show to watch over Dark if it was an option, although I think Dark is pretty fun for what it is on Youtube.

@not_a_bumblebee said:

Now that is how you do a squash match! I loved that they gave Marko some hope spots in a 4 minute squash before being absolutely destroyed.

Also did anyone see that scary superplex Trent gave Omega? I don't know if the ropes were too loose or Trent just didn't have good footing but thankfully it didn't seem like either guy was injured.

Yes on both. To me it was a little silly to have it be Marko but he did obviously sell and get tossed around really well.

And yeah, on the superplex it actually reminded me of that bad one that happend with Kris Statlander and i think Nyla Rose it was? I think at Revolution, sorry my memory is a little uncertain but yeah. Not as bad but reminiscent. Hope no one was hurt.