So... I'm starting to have a problem with how hardcore the clan matches and practices are starting to become. This is not what Giantbomb is about, or has ever been about. In any game. This GiantBomb Killzone clan is having lots of clan matches, which is fine. But some of the "leaders" of the clan are acting like it's mandatory, or making comments like they are "disappointed" that the clan matches aren't panning out as well as they would like. Indicating that we should feel bad for not put 110% into it.
I mean, suggesting that the practices are mandatory? Suggesting that the clan matches are mandatory? Saying that the "leaders" of the clan are going to have an "after clan match analysis" of how people played? C'mon...
Now, maybe i missed something and it was already stated that no one will get kicked or anything for missing clan matches, or practices. If that's the case, then ignore this post. I'm only making it because i've seen some very recent posts suggesting a more serious mindset when it comes to this clan. Namely, what i mentioned above.
Bottom line. Giantbomb has always been a laid back, carefree website/forum. It should be the same way in any guild, clan, or whatever you want to call it. Otherwise you shouldn't be using the GiantBomb name. If you want to recruit people on this forum for a hardcore Killzone 2 clan that is going to constantly be doing clan matches, holding mandatory practices, and whatever else hardcore bro's do in a clan. Then that's fine. Just name it "Joe Shmoe Clan" instead. Not GiantBomb Clan. Because a clan like that has nothing to do with the spirit of GiantBomb, period.
I'm perfectly find with having clan matches, and hoping people show up for it. Just to goof off and have fun. But once you start acting disappointed because no one showed up for it, or having an after-match "analysis" of how people played. You are taking it too far. If no one shows up, the attitude should be "Oh well, there's always next time."
Lastly. There are no "Leaders" of the GiantBomb clan. Unless it's Jeff, Brad, Ryan, or Vinny leading it. Or even one of the other staff members/moderators. I realize that there has to be a leader of the clan, and that's fine. But it's in name only, with no kind of power attached to it.
If it's possible, i for one think that everyone in the clan should be an officer. If there is no limit to how many officers you can have. For two reasons. One, that stays within the spirit of GiantBomb, and everyone being equal. And secondly, it will allow people to create clan matches on a whim. Just for the fun of it.
Let's get this thing back to fun. It's starting to hedge dangerously close to being serious. And again, if you are going to go that route, fine. Just create a different clan without the GiantBomb name anywhere on it.
Killzone 2
Game » consists of 8 releases. Released Feb 27, 2009
Take the fight to the Helghast in this first person shooter from Guerrilla Games.
GB Clan Becomming a Problem
haha, i asked to be signed up but they never sent me an invite.....kinda glad i didn't.
First of all, everyone has a right to be disappointed when no one shows up for a match. You wanted to be a part of a clan, you knew you were joining a group of guys who wanted to scrimmage, and it should be obvious that scrimmages can't happen if no one shows up. The idea behind starting a clan is not simply to have a tag. Part of scrimmaging is to get together and practice so it is fun for both teams, not just a one sided game. Post game evaluation will help individual's and the team's games as a whole, and hopefully make it all the more fun.
Some people like casual clans, some people like more dedicated clans. Both are fine, but personally I only join clans for competition. If I want to just "have fun", I don't need a clan for that. I enjoy the competition in clans.
You weren't at the game today. Watch the replay on killzone.com and tell me we don't need practice. GameSpot slaughtered the entire time...
...the only round we won was killing their target, and PufferFiz lucked out with that one.
Also, almost all the gaming sites have two clans...one for hardcore and one for casual. System Wars is the hardcore clan, and after that game...they damn well deserve that win.
The clan games are also on the clan home page in KZ2. The System Wars match was set in stone a little over a week in advance...it was the first game we tried to plan out.
About the leader role, we have no leader and have stood by that. We always change Squad Leaders, make everyone play their strengths, and give everyone a chance to shine. If you want proof, ask xCJES, artofwar, or anyone else to plays with Giant Bomb members. We almost always try to join each others games, or we try to make one and let everyone take control. For the record, I'm almost never the Squad Leader because I'm Scout or a Sab. I give advice as to what we should be doing.
But hey, if people wanna do this laid back...just remember the clan can't play if they hit 0 VP. You need practice dude...CAG, GS, 1UP, Destructoid, IGN, EDGE, GameTrailers, and every other website based clan does. Trust me, watch the replay on the killzone site and see for yourself.
Everyone who played the game today knows the feeling. The thing is, you just get back up and try again.
..and that's what we're going to do.
You wanted to be a part of a clan, you knew you were joining a group of guys who wanted to scrimmage, and it should be obvious that scrimmages can't happen if no one shows up."
Actually, no. When the first mention of the GiantBomb clan came up. It was said right off the bat that it would be laid back, and nothing would be mandatory. That's the reason i joined the clan. I love GiantBomb because it's laid back, i play video games in a laid back fashion, so i thought hell. A laid back GiantBomb Killzone clan should be great... The whole reason i posted this thread is because it seems to be straying from what it was initially advertised as.
I think a casual clan is perfectly acceptable and viable in Killzone. It would mainly be used for meeting up with fellow GiantBomb members, and kicking back and relaxing with them. Maybe with some casual clan matches thrown into the mix, just for the fun of it.
I for one would like to hear from one of the staff members what the officialy protocol is for having a clan that uses the websites name. Is there copyright issues involved? Is it at all approved of by the GiantBomb staff? Do people that form the clan in the name of GiantBomb have the right to deny other GiantBomb members access? Especially when the leaders of said clan have no authority on the website whatsoever? Can a GiantBomb member be kicked out of the clan by these members? We are equals here on the forum, so why should one GiantBomb member have authority over another in-game?
I feel that no regular GiantBomb member has the right to create a clan, and start making matches and practices mandatory in the name of GiantBomb. Who gave them that authority? Jeff? Ryan? Brad? Vinny? (Insert other staff member here)? Seems to me someone from the GiantBomb staff needs to lay out some official rules on creating a clan that presents itself as having some connection to GiantBomb. There is a reason why most other clans that are comprised of community members choose some ambiguous name for their clan. If i saw right. The IGN clan doesn't say "IGN" anywhere in the name. Nor does the Gamespot clan. They all picked a name that is unrelated.
If a hardcore, mandatory play time clan emerges from this. I just don't think the clan should claim to have an association to GiantBomb, or have "GiantBomb" in their name. The ideals couldn't be any more different... Slowly but surely, winning is becoming the prime focus of GBOC. With comments suggesting that play times are going to start becoming a requirement, and the "leaders" are going to start analyzing peoples play abilities. Which i'm sure will ultimately lead to people getting kicked if they don't play well enough.
Mainly, i feel that it is a bit hypocritical to create a clan that represents a very laid-back carefree community. Yet said clan has forceful rules, and will kick people for disobeying. Or not playing well enough. Now, i'm not saying that GBOC is to that point YET. I made this post hoping that it would help steer us clear of that. I mean hell, if i wanted mandatory play times. I'd join a flipping raid guild in World of Warcraft.
If this would be a fair compromise. Create Giantbomb Clan1 for all the hardcore "bros" that want to play Killzone 2. And Giant Bomb Clan2 for those that want to be casual, play the game when they feel like it, do clan matches when they feel like it, and all in all just have a fun, casual time with the G A M E. Clan2 could even be Clan1's "practice dummies." Since Clan2 would just be in it for the fun, and not care about winning or losing.
Still, i would like to get some type of official say on using the GiantBomb name when creating a clan, guild, or whatever. I'm willing to bet it's a no-no. At the very least, i'm sure the GiantBomb staff would have a problem with some random GiantBomb member leading something in their name, and making demands, rules, or creating a hardcore atmosphere with it.
"First of all, everyone has a right to be disappointed when no one shows up for a match. You wanted to be a part of a clan, you knew you were joining a group of guys who wanted to scrimmage, and it should be obvious that scrimmages can't happen if no one shows up. The idea behind starting a clan is not simply to have a tag. Part of scrimmaging is to get together and practice so it is fun for both teams, not just a one sided game. Post game evaluation will help individual's and the team's games as a whole, and hopefully make it all the more fun.The members of the clan didn't really have a choice to make the clan serious or not,it was the leaders.The reason why competitive gaming has practically all but vanished,is because people finally realized that they wanted to have fun,not have someone bark orders at them and take a game as seriously as a fucking job.Also,just because you don't play for competition doesn't mean that you'll lose every game you join, and even if you do,it's nott un-fun just because you lose.As for associating it with GiantBomb, it's a collection of GB members who are playing. Plenty of other websites have serious gaming clans.Finally, there are leaders. Aside from the fact that they have to be designated in the game, there must be some sort of organization. The guys who started these clans have done an excellent job trying to get everyone together. These guys have gone out looking for clans to scrimmage, and have rallied the base. I have no problem with it if they want to take up responsibility as they have done.
Some people like casual clans, some people like more dedicated clans. Both are fine, but personally I only join clans for competition. If I want to just "have fun", I don't need a clan for that. I enjoy the competition in clans.I agree that making it all mandatory may be rough, but they just want to be an organized clan who doesn't go around losing every matchup. If you don't want to practice every once and a while and won't show up to a match, then this isn't for you."
"This is why I never join any clan in any game ever. Actually I did for a while in Quake 3 but I was never too serious about that one ever. Tried a few guilds in EQ, they were nearly all always complete assholes."Same here, the only clan i was ever in officialy was in SOCOM 3 for PS2,which was a group of about 25 people or so,it was just casual,most of us just wanted to have fun and be able to have others to play with.But ya i hate most clans,and the guild i'm in right now in WoW is Alea Iacta Est,it has over 4000 members,but nobody ever pays attention to you or even talks to you because your just another face in the crowd.
As soon as something gets organized, it stops being "just for fun." Why? Because at that point people start putting effort into it, whether its organizational, administration or actual gameplay, someone somewhere is busting their hump (ever so slightly) to make things run smoothly, and they expect to be rewarded for their hard work. If you don't like it, don't participate and hook up with a KZ2 Bombing Run or two instead. All the Bombing Runs I've been on have been super laid back and hilarious on every account.
"You ain't gonna' make it" comes to mind.
Haha, really?
I got put on the list and i'll have to find out if I got an invite until my copy finally finds its way into my letterbox. This really annoys me. They're games after all, and I play games to have fun. People always have to bring it all down.
We did make the second clan just for this. BoG started it up. Join it if you want a carefree/laid back setting. So far everyone on my list who played the game today has the ":(" when I said good game. We put effort into doing this, a lot of it. A lot of emailing people from other clans, a lot of talking to them on a messenger, and a lot of forum posting on other sites to sort stuff out. A good chunk of people in the first clan are putting in a lot of work, and we want to see something for that work.
If this would be a fair compromise. Create Giantbomb Clan1 for all the hardcore "bros" that want to play Killzone 2. And Giant Bomb Clan2 for those that want to be casual, play the game when they feel like it, do clan matches when they feel like it, and all in all just have a fun, casual time with the G A M E.
The game with 1UP today will hopefully soften the mood as they are around our strength. Which we're hopeful we'll win.
"MAST said:We did make the second clan just for this. BoG started it up. Join it if you want a carefree/laid back setting.
If this would be a fair compromise. Create Giantbomb Clan1 for all the hardcore "bros" that want to play Killzone 2. And Giant Bomb Clan2 for those that want to be casual, play the game when they feel like it, do clan matches when they feel like it, and all in all just have a fun, casual time with the G A M E.
Well, if that's all i can get then that's my only option i guess. You're still missing my point though.
If you are going to try and run a hardcore Killzone 2 clan, and expect results for your hard work. Don't do it in the name of GiantBomb. Fact of the matter is, i shouldn't have to quit the primary GiantBomb clan, just because i'm not hardcore enough for it... If you are going to create a clan, and have your own personal terms and ground rules for it, then fine. Do it. But don't have GiantBomb in the name. Create your own original name, just like all these other gaming sites did. The community members of IGN, Gamespot, etc. have clan names that have absolutely nothing to do with the actual websites name. Therefor they are free to run it however they please. Because even though the website members are being invited to join, it's actually just "some guys" clan. The respective website is simply being used to say "Hey, i like this community, and any of you are free to join my clan."
Come to think of it. When did we have a vote deciding whether or not the GiantBomb clan was going to be hardcore in the first place? When you first talked about starting up the GiantBomb clan, you actually said that it would be casual and laid back. But i think after you started putting a lot of effort, and time into setting up clan matches. You decided that you want to see results, and you want people to take it seriously... That's not right. There are what? 60 people in our clan, which are all GiantBomb members? Did 31 of them give you a thumbs up when you asked them if they wanted to be in a serious clan? Did you even ask anyone at all? Or did you just decide? I sure as hell was never asked anything. I never saw a vote go up.
All i see is 2-3 of the leaders deciding that everyone needs to put their serious pants on, become experts at this game, and show up for every match or practice... Oh, and that they are going to start "analyzing" everyones gaming capabilities.
>_>
It changed over time...people wanted clan matches, and we had to make them.
Officers aren't making the final say. It's the people who are signing in everyday to play with us. They wanted clan battles, they wanted to win, they wanted to work hard. It's our job to make sure games are played.
Ask anyone who plays with us. There isn't bossing around, there isn't anything greedy. People want to win...almost everyone who plays with us has the Honor Rank to show that they want to work hard and win.
Oh, Jeff sent me a message a while back and he said to "WIN". If you want proof of this, I don't mind showing you.
Join the second clan with BoG, become an Officer and do your thing. We represent Giant Bomb too, we're mostly facing all the gaming site's Hardcore clans and they represent their sites. It's how these things work. Regardless on the 21st, they'll be two clan games versus CAG. Their casual and hardcore. BoG's team will face the Casual and ours will face the hardcore.
This way there's no worries.
"It changed over time...people wanted clan matches, and we had to make them. Officers aren't making the final say. It's the people who are signing in everyday to play with us. They wanted clan battles, they wanted to win, they wanted to work hard.
Yeah, but who's everybody? I mean, you don't even have all the squads hashed out yet, there are only 7-10 peopled put into squads. I'm willing to bet it's those same 7-10 people that you are referring to as "everybody." 10 people out of 60 is not "everybody."
Again, you're missing my point. Even if there are 20 of you deciding that you want a hardcore clan. Is it right of you to create a GIANTBOMB clan, and start making your own rules and guidelines? And then dump anyone that doesn't fit your little paradigm into a second string clan? I mean, maybe i'm being an ass here. But something about that just doesn't seem right. Especially considering the atmosphere of this website, and it's community.
It's more than that...almost around 20. A good chunk of people haven't accepted the invite (despite our best efforts adding them ASAP and why our clan is filled), and we aren't kicking anyone out. We haven't kicked a single person yet.
We haven't been making our own rules...things change over time. We're really laid back too, once a week practice isn't hell on earth. It's also a night members can get to know each other. EVERY OTHER gaming clan has the same thing.
Again, we made the second clan. Ask BoG for an Officer rank and do what you want. No one is upset, no one has hard feeling, and all games will be set. Take the responsibility of leadership and help out BoG and make matches. If you feel once a week practice is to hard, change it for yours. Just for your information, CAG Casual has two practice nights, and they're both on weekends. CAG Casual is very laid back as well...
We haven't dumped anyone, we tell everyone to get online whenever and to play with other users in the Clan page. Most people do this...some people only sign in once a week but still play with clan members. For this, I'm glad people are doing...if they aren't showing up to Clan games, it's our loss as a team but we give people close to a full week before hand. Again, people are upset if we don't fill up...the other team is kind enough to balance it out.
BoG knows the second clan isn't just a throw away clan. We're doing a lot to streamline everything (something other gaming sites DON'T DO...I think CAG might, ask ManaKnight lol). We're playing the same games for the most part, and information is being given to BoG and other Officers so they can tell their members. If they make events, they are to tell us so we can work stuff out.
Like I said, join up with BoG and make it more laid back than ours. Ours is really laid back...the loss against GameSpot took away our heart. I won't lie...everyone who played that game is upset. A lot of work was put into winning that game...that's life.
Wow I guess I am very glad to be in the second clan because it is called the prodigious pineapple and not anything about GB. I am a little of both I guess. I am very laid back, but I hate loosing. So I always try my best to win just because thats how I am.
Meh, I think games should be fun. I really hope people don't look at some of the fuckwits in the clan and think that's what Giant Bomb is about :(
"This is why I never join any clan in any game ever."Wasteful.
People who lead clans or guilds or anything like that enjoy having power and control over other people more than anything. They prefer to argue with people about rules and attendance and ranks and loot rather than actually play the game. I mean, we all know the type. They're an officer in a guild in WoW before they're level 50. They're in a clan before they know all the maps. They play multiplayer games to get involved in drama and exercise some power that they don't have in real life.
Some people who surf forums do it to gain some kind of fame. I don't know what hole they have in their hearts that leads to this behavior, but they are willing to do anything and everything to get noticed by the people they idolize so much. They will spend any amount of money or time to win a contest or draw a picture or buy some gifts just so they can get recognized through text or speech. It's especially prevalent on a site like this, where the staff interact so closely with the general population.
Mix these two types together, put them in a group that shares a name with the site they love so dearly, and you get people who feel they're affiliated with their idols. Notice the way the defenders of the current clan talk. They mention 'the people' and 'the community.' THIS IS WHAT THE COMMUNITY WANTS, IF YOU DISAGREE YOU MUST NOT LOVE THIS SITE. Who is 'the community'? They mention their idols talking to them. THIS IS WHAT JEFF WANTS, IF YOU DISAGREE YOU MUST NOT LOVE THIS SITE. They mention the other sites groups, trying to incite some kind of nationalist hate towards the 'enemy.' DON'T YOU SEE WHAT THOSE INFIDELS ARE DOING? WE MUST PRACTICE SO WE CAN SHOW THEM WHO THE TRUE RULERS OF THE INTERNET ARE!
Hmm, mentioning the 'greater good', idolizing the higher powers, trying to incite some kind of national pride by demonizing the opposistion... And you wonder how people support fascists and communists... I mean, I can see these guys being put in some kind of position of power in one of those governments and being perfectly fine.
This is probably the most laid back competitive clan I've a part of.
I remember being part of CSS clan a little while back, and the leader REQUIRED to have DAILY CHATS OVER MSN, I got kicked by the second day.
The games we've had so far have not been crazy in that no one is screaming directions, no one puts down anyone, I'd like to think the main objective of the clan is to have fun, at least I'm having fun.
MAST your kind of just assuming how we are with the clan. You weren't there for the clan match and I'm pretty sure you weren't in any of the practices and you're still in the clan right? You didn't get kicked out and nobody else did. I mean we have a full clan roster in the competitive clan and I saw a total of 6 people in the one practice I was in and nobody was punished, nobody got demoted. Also, one mandatory practice isn't exactly hard to show up to since we do have 4 of them so I don't see why your complaining about them.
Personally, clans always seemed to me like they were meant for serious, competitive play. So I'm sort of surprised that people are getting up in arms over a clan being, you know, a clan.
I guess that was exactly my problem. I thought "Hey, a GiantBomb clan. I bet it won't be anything like other clans. Sign me up!" I'm the same way, i normally don't ever join any kind of clan, or guild. Simply because sooner or later, it always takes a turn for the hardcore. No matter how casual it starts off, it always eventually goes down the hardcore path. So it was my mistake for thinking this would be any different. Or that i could go against the grain of what clans will always be about. Serious competition.
Thanks for clearing things up, and letting us know it's ok to fight in the GiantBomb name.
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