I would like to start off my first blog ever by saying I love Giant Bomb. Err. Yeah 
           I'm a pretty big RPG gamer, to put that out there. And something has been changing in this genre, and is really irking me (vocab ftw!). The developers have been dumbing down all of the mechanics that make an RPG what it is. And it's getting to the point where they are only RPG's by name. However, for me to fully express my opinions on the subject of RPG's (and other games for that matter) dumbed-downed-ness, I must give you my (and the only) definition of an RPG. 
A Role Playing Game is a game where you create a character and you choose how he grows. Choice is the crux of all RPG's. Choice in the story, choice in the development of your character, and choices with consequences. While choice of story, and consequences have been working out fairly well, the growth of a character has not.  
          One of the more recent examples in the great game of Mass Effect 2. Anyone who has played the first game knows that it was a great one as well, although it was plagued with inventory and skill tree problems. I admit that they had problems in both of these areas, but they also had their strengths. The inventory system allowed much more choice than there was of that in Mass Effect 2. You were able to choose weapon and armor mods for your whole squad on the fly. It had its inventory management problems for sure, but Bioware completely did away with it. They also gave you much less skills to choose from. While this was not a major complaint with me, I liked having to choose which one of my companions would upgrade their warp ability, while I pushed to get singularity. 
          Now why did they do this? Well, it was problematic for sure, but the real reason is immersion. Developers are now creating works for this god that they call immersion. Immersion is not a bad thing at all, its a great thing, but it's how they try to achieve it that bothers me. They do it by cutting down patience and hard work. They want to get you right to the juicy and exciting parts.  
                I remember when it took time and hard work to achieve something in a game, that was great. I felt like I had to truly know my enemies and the world around me to be able to succeed. It may have had some downtime in doing this, but it was immersive. I had to read the books that the game gave to me, I had to listen to what people had to say, and sometimes, I would have to test it out. 
              Those were the good ol' days, back when I wasn't alive. I'm pretty young to be playing Morrowind and The Witcher, but they really opened my eyes.

I would like to start off my first blog ever by saying I love Giant Bomb. Err. Yeah 
           I'm a pretty big RPG gamer, to put that out there. And something has been changing in this genre, and is really irking me (vocab ftw!). The developers have been dumbing down all of the mechanics that make an RPG what it is. And it's getting to the point where they are only RPG's by name. However, for me to fully express my opinions on the subject of RPG's (and other games for that matter) dumbed-downed-ness, I must give you my (and the only) definition of an RPG. 
A Role Playing Game is a game where you create a character and you choose how he grows. Choice is the crux of all RPG's. Choice in the story, choice in the development of your character, and choices with consequences. While choice of story, and consequences have been working out fairly well, the growth of a character has not.  
          One of the more recent examples in the great game of Mass Effect 2. Anyone who has played the first game knows that it was a great one as well, although it was plagued with inventory and skill tree problems. I admit that they had problems in both of these areas, but they also had their strengths. The inventory system allowed much more choice than there was of that in Mass Effect 2. You were able to choose weapon and armor mods for your whole squad on the fly. It had its inventory management problems for sure, but Bioware completely did away with it. They also gave you much less skills to choose from. While this was not a major complaint with me, I liked having to choose which one of my companions would upgrade their warp ability, while I pushed to get singularity. 
          Now why did they do this? Well, it was problematic for sure, but the real reason is immersion. Developers are now creating works for this god that they call immersion. Immersion is not a bad thing at all, its a great thing, but it's how they try to achieve it that bothers me. They do it by cutting down patience and hard work. They want to get you right to the juicy and exciting parts.  
                I remember when it took time and hard work to achieve something in a game, that was great. I felt like I had to truly know my enemies and the world around me to be able to succeed. It may have had some downtime in doing this, but it was immersive. I had to read the books that the game gave to me, I had to listen to what people had to say, and sometimes, I would have to test it out. 
              Those were the good ol' days, back when I wasn't alive. I'm pretty young to be playing Morrowind and The Witcher, but they really opened my eyes.

You should format your text better.

Lol. Okay. I'll get right to it.

It's not dumbed down, it's streamlined.   
Dragon Age was a great RPG, and I know there is concerned about the reported streamlining of the sequel. I think that  these people need to chill the fuck out and roll with the punches. Dragon Age was a throwback to the days of NWN and Baldur's Gate, games which I lost many hundreds of hours of my life to.  I can appreciate the fear of loss of these conventions, but it is simply a refinement.  Plus, put some fucking faith in Bioware.  They have never failed.   
Games change with the times, and technology and gameplay are growing and improving rapidly.  I am all for a more streamlined experience, not taking me out of the game world and breaking the immersion of the experience by keeping clumsy and unnecessary mechanics.
Mass Effect 2 was better than ME1 in every conceivable way.  If they had kept any of the inventory management, skill trees, and other nonsensical trappings of conventional RPGs, it would have simply detracted from the experience, and made it more "gamey" than the fast paced, dark, and great experience that it was.  

Its a fine line between streamilined and dumbed down. I never said that they shoulve kept the old systems of ME1, but I certainly would not have got rid of them completely.

I agree. It does. But the second one lacked almost any system of that at all. The two weapons per class (not counting the heavy weapons), and the fact that they were the latter one was superior to the first lacked any sort of descision from the player on which one he wanted to use. 
I just think BioWare should've just tweaked the system, and made it easier to use, rather that do away with it.

" It's not dumbed down, it's streamlined."

" @jorbear:  As someone who's played through ME1 4 times, you really start to notice the problems with it. "

You're right on the matter that ME2 is less of a RPG than it should have been, however the ME1 inventory and skill tree didn't seem to be all that impressive in the first place. I'm hoping in ME3 they'll reintroduce more RPG elements into the game.

" @InfamousBIG said:

" It's not dumbed down, it's streamlined."

I think this one sentence pretty much sums up how I feel and I believe the transition from ME1 to ME2 had far more to do with streamlining than it did with dumbing down. I also think we are not by any means living in a time where there aren't games where it takes hard work and time to achieve goals. "

" I agree. It does. But the second one lacked almost any system of that at all. The two weapons per class (not counting the heavy weapons), and the fact that they were the latter one was superior to the first lacked any sort of descision from the player on which one he wanted to use. I just think BioWare should've just tweaked the system, and made it easier to use, rather that do away with it. "

" @jorbear said:

" I agree. It does. But the second one lacked almost any system of that at all. The two weapons per class (not counting the heavy weapons), and the fact that they were the latter one was superior to the first lacked any sort of descision from the player on which one he wanted to use. I just think BioWare should've just tweaked the system, and made it easier to use, rather that do away with it. "

The limited amounts of weapons I found actually made the game more tactical because I had to carefully choose what team members the bring with me and how to level them up and equip them for any given situation. And the latter being better that he former is true for some weapons, but not for all. The heavy pistol comes to mind: the first one had a larger clip size and a faster rate of fire, but the second one was much more powerful per shot, but couldn't hold as many shots and fired slower.  If you played this game on Insanity you know there is nothing dumbed down about ME2. Streamlined? Yes. But there are an incredible amount of tactical choices to make in order to be successful on Insanity. "

My only "wtf?" moment in ME2 was when you are in that one collector ship, and you have to decide if you want the beast AR, the beast sniper rifle, or the other weapon (shotgun).  I thought, "And I can't take all three...why?"

" @jorbear:  I'm a little confused.  When you refer to hard work, are you talking about grinding, or just having a game be overall difficult like Demon's Souls?  Or something else entirely?  I think that there are plenty of games that are hard, or require hard work to get a goal.  It is largely dependant on what kind of a game it is, though. "

" My only "wtf?" moment in ME2 was when you are in that one collector ship, and you have to decide if you want the beast AR, the beast sniper rifle, or the other weapon (shotgun).  I thought, "And I can't take all three...why?" "

Yeah, I have to agree. It's all personal preference. I like the direction of many games and their streamlining, but some need to tone it down a bit, or just stay where they are.

Streamlining is different then dumbing down. Mass Effect 2 still had all the depth of the first one. It was just presented differently. Instead of having hordes of different armors you got one main one that you could customize endlessly.

I don't feel that ME2 was "dumb downed". There's more than one way to make a good rpg. ME2 had more of a cinematic or television feel to it, and I believe that's what Bioware wanted.

" Streamlining is different then dumbing down. Mass Effect 2 still had all the depth of the first one. It was just presented differently. Instead of having hordes of different armors you got one main one that you could customize endlessly. "

" I don't feel that ME2 was "dumb downed". There's more than one way to make a good rpg. ME2 had more of a cinematic or television feel to it, and I believe that's what Bioware wanted. "

Is it dumbed down? Certainly. But really, the RPG elements were the second worst part about Mass Effect 1 (The worst part? The mako.) Nothing quite like meaningless statistical percentages to really make you feel like your character is progressing.
 
Mass Effect 2 focuses on being straight shooter with a few cool powers thrown in the mix and is a much, much, much better game because of it. If I want an RPG that has actual good RPG elements, I can play Dragon Age or Wizardry 8.

" Is it dumbed down? Certainly. But really, the RPG elements were the second worst part about Mass Effect 1 (The worst part? The mako.) Nothing quite like meaningless statistical percentages to really make you feel like your character is progressing.  Mass Effect 2 focuses on being straight shooter with a few cool powers thrown in the mix and is a much, much, much better game because of it. If I want an RPG that has actual good RPG elements, I can play Dragon Age or Wizardry 8. "

" @jorbear: Then what is the argument at hand? Would you have prefered more of an RPG in the traditional sense? Because really, ME2 hit all the right notes for me due to the fact that it openly defied the first game's lackluster hybrid approach. "

" @jorbear: Uhhh...sorry to argue, but Borderlands had some problems. "

I find Mass Effect 2 to be superior to its predecessor in every way.

" I find Mass Effect 2 to be superior to its predecessor in every way. "

" @jorbear: RPG stands for role playing game.  Borderlands had a grand total of 0% role playing.  It was a FPS with middling shooting, a metric shitton of useless guns, a disappointing story, and some archaic rpg mechanics (such as grinding).  Inventory management was poor, as there was no bank (until Moxxi), and it was overall a very disappointing game.  Mass Effect 2 is in a whole different league. "

" @jorbear: Story superior in one?  FUCK NO!  What are you smoking. Story in one was predictable, bland, and very one sided. Story in two is great, and while the missions related to the collectors may be few, they are very good.  ME2 is a much darker and richer game than ME1, and it has a darker and richer, more meaningful story. "

Mass Effect is more about story then loot. I was glad that they stripped out some of that stuff to be honest. All it did was slow things down. Don't get me wrong, I love Borderlands, but it's a very different kind of game.

" Mass Effect is more about story then loot. I was glad that they stripped out some of that stuff to be honest. All it did was slow things down. Don't get me wrong, I love Borderlands, but it's a very different kind of game. "

The change they made that I was most upset about was the addition of ammo. Sure, it encourages people to use all the weapons available, but the "charging" of the previous game gave it a unique flavor and feeling that I really missed. The slaughtered skill tree was also a major loss. Still a great game though.

" @AuthenticM said:

" I find Mass Effect 2 to be superior to its predecessor in every way. "

I could write another blog on this. Gameplay wise, yes. Characters are much better in ME2. But the story in the first one was far superior to ME2. In ME1, all of the quests pertaining to the overall goal (stopping Saren) were all directly related to that, and they all felt connected and had meaning to this goal. With Virmire being one of my favorite pieces of gaming ever. In ME2, you spend most of your time building up a squad. This of course connects to stopping the collectors, but indirectly. And I never felt like the collectors were as imminent threat as much as Saren was. This is simply because you didn't constantly see the destruction and madness left in his wake. I will admit, however, that the missions that are directly related to the collectors were great. "

As the video game industry tries to grow they will be "dumbing down" like crazy because they want to make boat loads of money.  The more people who can understand and play the game, the more copies they sell.  That's about it man, sorry.  But there are all ways games like Demon's Souls that are particularly opaque for the sake of being opaque.  But this kind of thing is not the norm.  Hey, I like bullet hell shooters, how many of those have even come out in the past 3 years. Like 5?  Things they are a changing....

I hear where all you guys are coming from, and lots of your points have valid concerns, all I keep thinking is: 
"We can do a whole lot worse then Mass Effect/Dragon Age"
 
Play Battlefield: Bad Company 2, the first few levels you do nothing but get taken by the hand.
Or in MW2 they steer you all around (RAMIREZ, KILL THAT KROGAN WITH A SPOON), there's loads of games that drag you kicking and screaming end to finish, while Mass Effect does the same, it does so with some more depth and fun added along the way.
There's a certain kind of "dumbing down" present in ME2, but not in the way that it's ruining a game or changing the experience.
Overall it's a better, and yes, streamlined presentation that drags us into that wonderful world of videogames.
 
Bioware ain't perfect, they learn stuff too every game they make, but they come damn near close in the sense of giving us a real videogame instead of a first person movie where you are just along for the ride.

There's nothing dumbed down about ME2. 
 
Have no idea whether it's simple RPG player snobbery but different doesn't equate to dumbed down. There's nothing smart about having 10 options where you could simply have 1, or 15 almost identical guns when you could have a simple upgrade system. To look at a system that has been streamlined to great effect and has really improved the feel of what was a clunky and messy system in their first game, is much much lazier than anything Bioware did in ME2.

" There's nothing dumbed down about ME2.   Have no idea whether it's simple RPG player snobbery but different doesn't equate to dumbed down. There's nothing smart about having 10 options where you could simply have 1, or 15 almost identical guns when you could have a simple upgrade system. To look at a system that has been streamlined to great effect and has really improved the feel of what was a clunky and messy system in their first game, is much much lazier than anything Bioware did in ME2. "

" I hear where all you guys are coming from, and lots of your points have valid concerns, all I keep thinking is:  "We can do a whole lot worse then Mass Effect/Dragon Age"  Play Battlefield: Bad Company 2, the first few levels you do nothing but get taken by the hand. Or in MW2 they steer you all around (RAMIREZ, KILL THAT KROGAN WITH A SPOON), there's loads of games that drag you kicking and screaming end to finish, while Mass Effect does the same, it does so with some more depth and fun added along the way. There's a certain kind of "dumbing down" present in ME2, but not in the way that it's ruining a game or changing the experience. Overall it's a better, and yes, streamlined presentation that drags us into that wonderful world of videogames.  Bioware ain't perfect, they learn stuff too every game they make, but they come damn near close in the sense of giving us a real videogame instead of a first person movie where you are just along for the ride. "

I believe Mass Effect 2 was a little dumbed down, yes they did away with allot of things but I feel it took away from the immersion for me. I believe what they're doing is immersion for the movie go-ers, people who want the straight up action "Wow that game was like some epic movie" where as there's immersion by "Good lord this armor was worth the price, I wouldn't have survived that last bla bla" immersion for gamer-gamers I guess. Since they did home in at Bioware on Mass Effect 2 being sequenced like a movie. Which yes is good but I believe there should have been more of an inventory and stuff for the people who wanted it.