On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 9:08 PM, Jamie Dillion

<jdillion@childsplaycharity.org> wrote:

> Hi Benjamin,

>

> Thank you for your concern. We take the all feedback about the Retake Mass

> Effect Fundraiser seriously and I hope I can address some of your concerns

> and explain what happened.

>

> Last night we reached out to Robb, the coordinator of the Retake Mass Effect

> Fundraiser. Our opinions of whether or not Mass Effect's ending is adjusted

> or not has nothing to do with our conversation with Robb. We spoke with him

> regarding his goals and for the fundraiser and potential implications it

> could hold for us. He expressed that it had exceeded his expectations, and

> thought it would be appropriate to finalize it at an incredible (and

> appreciated) $80,000.

>

> While we did receive some negative mail regarding the drive, I can assure

> the specific opinions of those mails had nothing to do with this situation.

> It's true that there were people getting upset that Child's Play was

> supporting Retake Mass Effect (even though in reality, it was Retake Mass

> Effect supporting CP), but the real concern on our end was the slippery

> slope of fundraisers being attached to other causes creating. While RME had

> the best of intentions, it shed light on an issue that we needed to address.

>

> For example, if someone took a hotly debated political issue and said

> "Donate to Child's Play to support [insert issue here]", it could

> potentially cause some serious issues. Clearly what Retake Mass Effect was

> doing is not negative- like I said, it pointed out a slippery slope for

> others to use the charity for more agendas we clearly do not support. Our

> intent is not to turn away donations, but to protect the spirit of Child's

> Play in helping children in hospitals.

>

> Please let me know if you have any questions or need any clarification.

> Thank you again for your feedback.

>

> Regards,

>

> Jamie

That's pretty stupid.

I see both sides of the argument. It's probably not good for the charity's long-term credibility (which turns into dollars) if they're seen as being the donation magnet for every angry nerd petition that comes out of the woodwork. It's probably better for their long term image not to be associated with negativity.

It's not like Child's Play is refusing the money that the movement has raised. They took in close to $80,000, which is a ridiculous sum considering that the effort was based around something utterly selfish. I can imagine that the Child's Play organizers had to feel at least a bit weirded out by the fact that people were organizing an effort to change a video game's ending by raising money for children. Good cause? For Children's Hospitals, absolutely. But it's a drive directly tied to people demanding that Bioware give in to their demands and change the game's ending.

*cue people getting offended and not getting why a charity probably doesn't want to look like it's taking a side or supporting something it's not even remotely involved with.*

It's not like Child's Play is refusing the money that the movement has raised. They took in close to $80,000, which is a ridiculous sum considering that the effort was based around something utterly selfish. I can imagine that the Child's Play organizers had to feel at least a bit weirded out by the fact that people were organizing an effort to change a video game's ending by raising money for children. Good cause? For Children's Hospitals, absolutely. But it's a drive directly tied to people demanding that Bioware give in to their demands and change the game's ending.

Someone over on SA already sent them an e-mail about it and got a pretty reasonable response back as to why.

On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 9:08 PM, Jamie Dillion

<jdillion@childsplaycharity.org> wrote:

> Hi Benjamin,

>

> Thank you for your concern. We take the all feedback about the Retake Mass

> Effect Fundraiser seriously and I hope I can address some of your concerns

> and explain what happened.

>

> Last night we reached out to Robb, the coordinator of the Retake Mass Effect

> Fundraiser. Our opinions of whether or not Mass Effect's ending is adjusted

> or not has nothing to do with our conversation with Robb. We spoke with him

> regarding his goals and for the fundraiser and potential implications it

> could hold for us. He expressed that it had exceeded his expectations, and

> thought it would be appropriate to finalize it at an incredible (and

> appreciated) $80,000.

>

> While we did receive some negative mail regarding the drive, I can assure

> the specific opinions of those mails had nothing to do with this situation.

> It's true that there were people getting upset that Child's Play was

> supporting Retake Mass Effect (even though in reality, it was Retake Mass

> Effect supporting CP), but the real concern on our end was the slippery

> slope of fundraisers being attached to other causes creating. While RME had

> the best of intentions, it shed light on an issue that we needed to address.

>

> For example, if someone took a hotly debated political issue and said

> "Donate to Child's Play to support [insert issue here]", it could

> potentially cause some serious issues. Clearly what Retake Mass Effect was

> doing is not negative- like I said, it pointed out a slippery slope for

> others to use the charity for more agendas we clearly do not support. Our

> intent is not to turn away donations, but to protect the spirit of Child's

> Play in helping children in hospitals.

>

> Please let me know if you have any questions or need any clarification.

> Thank you again for your feedback.

>

> Regards,

>

> Jamie

@mutha3 said:

@PollySMPS said:

*cue people getting offended and not getting why a charity probably doesn't want to look like it's taking a side or supporting something it's not even remotely involved with.*

uh we're talking about a dumb videogame story were you fuck an ign reporter this isn't a political issue or stemcell research or some shit

You're right, it's probably a pretty good idea if Child's Play puts their credibility and reputation on the line for this one thing. I mean, so what if they piss a bunch of people off and get into some really fucking bad shit that puts any money they might make in the future at risk. The short term is more important.

@Brendan said:

I see both sides of the argument. It's probably not good for the charity's long-term credibility (which turns into dollars) if they're seen as being the donation magnet for every angry nerd petition that comes out of the woodwork. It's probably better for their long term image not to be associated with negativity.

Trouble is, they're the donate magnet for EVERY nerd, angry or not. It's not secret that Child's Play is the most popular charity in the gaming community, positives or negatives, the fact that they've become this beacon of do-gooding sort of makes it hard for them to take this position.

And yeah, I get why, but...it's hard, as an outsider, to watch them take this position. They raised something like 64 thousand dollars, didn't they? And it's not like bioware isn't already bowing to popular opinion on the matter...

I dunno...this doesn't seem like the big line in the sand they should be making.

credibility and reputation on the line for this one thing.

@EToaster: Ah. Well, that's alright I guess. It's not like they're giving the money back, they're just like, "Thanks, but stop in the name of this and switch it to something else"

I understand why they're doing it, and the response posted a few posts ago pretty much confirms why they're doing it. It's cool that they raised 80k, but it sets a precedent for donations being attached to petitions or movements and that's not something that you want to get involved in as a charity.

People are weird. "I hate Mass Effects ending soo much that Ima donate money to charity".

Like, just donate?

@mutha3 said:

@Mesoian: Well, lets not kid ourselves. They are effectively crushing the movement. It was picking up something fierce the past week. It was sitting at 80+K until they called it quits. It would have probably hit 100K if this hadn't happened.

Thankfully, retake ME has found a new home.

...not quite sure if serious, but that's...fine?

I mean, I get why they quashed, in the world of video games, there aren't a whole lot of politically charged issues. I think we can all say that the bioware ending issue is probably the first big game changer of this generation of HD remakes and 3's, forcing people to define what they consider to be artistic integrity. So I think it's okay to say, "no thanks, it's okay, we really don't want to be a part of this issue,' especially with how close PA has worked with bioware in the past.

But that being said, it's great that they found a different charity and if they want to continue raising money for a good cause, more power to them. It's pretty strange, this whole thing, but as long as the endgame is people trying to do good get the money to do good things, then whatever, bioware, redo the ending. It's not so big of an issue where people should just stop everything, but I wish a little bit more clarity would be used here because some of the comments coming out of these people are....whooo...totally crah-crah.

That being said again, I thought the ending for ME3 was bullshit and lazy. But I also thought the ending for KOTOR2 was bullshit and lazy but you don't see people getting all mad about that.

I can't say I know a ton about the charity, but do they vet causes before allowing money to be raised? Honest question..

@mutha3 said:

@FateOfNever said:

credibility and reputation on the line for this one thing.

Psst. Non-issues like videogame endings don't risk this, like, at all.

But clearly it does risk it. It sets precedents for "causes" being associated with donating to them, which is a credibility and reputation issue. And if video games can't risk it at all, then why are you so pissed off that they stopped? Because they stopped accepting donations for a cause? Regardless of whether it's political or not. And it doesn't have to be on some grand, world defining scale for it to be bad business for a charity to support people giving to them under a movement of some kind. I don't see why this is such a big deal. They took in an amount of donations then felt the need to put a halt on people continuing to donate to them because of ME3's ending because they don't want it to go too far. And if they should allow it for this, why shouldn't they allow it for a political issue? Your idea that they should accept all amounts of money for "the cause" because any money is good money is bad business for a charity, plain and simple.

@stryker1121: Can they, yes. All charities can. Did they? We'll probably never know for sure, that's extremely private information. Knowing how most charities go, I'd say they probably have.

I hate video games.

@Mcfart said:

People are weird. "I hate Mass Effects ending soo much that Ima donate money to charity".

Like, just donate?

This. Regardless of their intentions, the people involved make themselves look as though they're using the charity as means to demonstrate that their intent to get a new ending from Bioware is somehow not a selfish endeavor. If people want to donate to Child's Play, then they should donate either independently or through events that aren't spurred by selfish desires.

@Hailinel said:

It's not like Child's Play is refusing the money that the movement has raised. They took in close to $80,000, which is a ridiculous sum considering that the effort was based around something utterly selfish. I can imagine that the Child's Play organizers had to feel at least a bit weirded out by the fact that people were organizing an effort to change a video game's ending by raising money for children. Good cause? For Children's Hospitals, absolutely. But it's a drive directly tied to people demanding that Bioware give in to their demands and change the game's ending.

Yup, I completely agree with this. They don't have to have some stupid cause in order to donate to child's play.

 @Mesoian said:

I mean, I get why they quashed, in the world of video games, there aren't a whole lot of politically charged issues. I think we can all say that the bioware ending issue is probably the first big game changer of this generation of HD remakes and 3's, forcing people to define what they consider to be artistic integrity. So I think it's okay to say, "no thanks, it's okay, we really don't want to be a part of this issue,' especially with how close PA has worked with bioware in the past.

And if they should allow it for this, why shouldn't they allow it for a political issue?

This. Regardless of their intentions, the people involved make themselves look as though they're using the charity as means to demonstrate that their intent to get a new ending from Bioware is somehow not a selfish endeavor.

That's a dumb statement to make. I think next time Octoberkast rolls around I'm gonna give my money to the Red Cross instead. Who cares what the motivation for donation comes from? It could be drug money for all I care, people getting help is the most important part.

@mutha3: PA's a little bit more experienced with stuff like this though. True, a disclaimour would legally and politically seperate them from whomever is offering the charity money, but that's not how people work. People see PA's charity taking in 80k in the name of changing the ending, they desern "Oh, see, PA thinks they should change the ending too" and suddenly PA's name is getting tossed around in a issue that they want no part of, mostly because they have a lot of personal friends working at bioware and have sort of been riding bioware's dick ever since the star wars mmo came out seriously it's been a little gross and I think they've realized that.

What's the best way to say, "HEY! We don't want any part of this!"? Nip it in the bud. Do what they just did. Say thank you, it's extremely generous, we really appreciate it, no more.

Thank about all the dumb shit that's been done in the name of Penny Arcade. Remember the Dickwolves fiasco that happened this time last year? Remember the death threats that came out of that? Now think about how much bigger this ME3 stuff is than that. People get too overzealous about shit that doesn't matter, and often the best way to handle is to separate yourself from the entire matter.

Again, if they gave the money back, that would be going a little far. But just saying, "thanks, now stop" is something very different.

@MikkaQ said:

That's a dumb statement to make. I think next time Octoberkast rolls around I'm gonna give my money to the Red Cross instead. Who cares what the motivation for donation comes from? It could be drug money for all I care, people getting help is the most important part.

You do realize that this exact statement is why our political system is in the shitter, right?

@mutha3: I care because, while their method is noble, the intent behind it is not. They are protesting the ending of a fucking video game. I'd call into question just how many of these people would have donated to Child's Play or to any charity at all had this drive not been organized. However, I have no problem with Child's Play asking them to bring an end to the drive; as I said before, they are not refusing the funds that have been donated up to that point.

Unlike some people in this thread, this news will have no bearing on me making any future Child's Play donations.

@mutha3: Clearly no one's going to change your mind on this issue, so I'm not sure I see a point in arguing with you about it. This does effect your bottom line and their reputation, or, has the potential to. You can't say "it has no chance of affecting their reputation." You don't see into the future and know with a 100% certainty that this doesn't cause some real bad precedents that ends up causing the company to close down in five years. It may be unlikely, but you can't say for certain that it wouldn't, or couldn't, happen. Donating for a stupid video game ending is pretty fucking stupid in the first place. People are fucking lunatics about this ending. You didn't like the ending? Boo fucking hoo. Cry me a river. Why should you try and force a charity to be involved with this petition to force a company to force their employees to make a new ending because you didn't like the ending to something? Child's Play has every right to put a halt on people donating money to them for what is a video game artistic issue. If these people that are so out of their minds concerned about this ending actually want to support Child's Play they should do it on their own, not do it simply because they think somehow it will fix an ending they didn't like. Charities live by reputations and putting that reputation at risk, at all, is dangerous and should be avoided, regardless of how stupid or unlikely YOU might think it is.

@mutha3: I care because, while their method is noble, the intent behind it is not. 

I'd call into question just how many of these people would have donated to Child's Play or to any charity at all had this drive not been organized.

@Mesoian said:

@MikkaQ said:

That's a dumb statement to make. I think next time Octoberkast rolls around I'm gonna give my money to the Red Cross instead. Who cares what the motivation for donation comes from? It could be drug money for all I care, people getting help is the most important part.

You do realize that this exact statement is why our political system is in the shitter, right?

Who's? I have three citizenships, try me.

Either way I get your point. But as least a charity isn't as obliged to act on their donor's wishes. Not in the way these lobbyist types work with governments. Scum.

PR, man. It's a balancing act.

Oh look, more people and companies I've lost respect for. Oh, I've lost count now.

@mutha3 said:

@Hailinel said:

I'd call into question just how many of these people would have donated to Child's Play or to any charity at all had this drive not been organized.

You are making this charity drive sound like a good thing here. I hope you realize that.

Nope. I'm stating a belief that a lot of people that donated to this cause wouldn't donate to a charity in their life unless it were tied to something stupid like this that they had a vested interest in. That is not altruism. That is selfishness. They have successfully turned a charity drive into something that Ayn Rand would be proud of.

@MikkaQ said:

@Mesoian said:

@MikkaQ said:

That's a dumb statement to make. I think next time Octoberkast rolls around I'm gonna give my money to the Red Cross instead. Who cares what the motivation for donation comes from? It could be drug money for all I care, people getting help is the most important part.

You do realize that this exact statement is why our political system is in the shitter, right?

Who's? I have three citizenships, try me.

Either way I get your point. But as least a charity isn't as obliged to act on their donor's wishes. Not in the way these lobbyist types work with governments. Scum.

Americas. I really did think about specificing knowing the community, but got lazy at the end.

But yeah, the american political contribution system is fucked.

Nope. I'm stating a belief that a lot of people that donated to this cause wouldn't donate to a charity in their life unless it were tied to something stupid like this that they had a vested interest in. .

That is not altruism. That is selfishness

@mutha3 said:

@Hailinel said:

Nope. I'm stating a belief that a lot of people that donated to this cause wouldn't donate to a charity in their life unless it were tied to something stupid like this that they had a vested interest in. .

In order words, you're making it sound like this charity just got 80,000 dollars they would have never gotten otherwise.

That is not altruism. That is selfishness

Dude. For the dozenth time-- I get your argument. I'm asking why do you care about people's intentions here? How does it change that their money has been used as a force of good? Like, at all?

Why do you care that Child's Play chose to cut off the drive at $80,000?

http://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/r93jo/retake_mass_effect_fund_raiser_under_attack_by/c43yppv

More about it.

Why do you care that Child's Play chose to cut off the drive at $80,000?

http://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/r93jo/retake_mass_effect_fund_raiser_under_attack_by/c43yppv

Yes, IF someone took a hotly debated political issue and said "Donate to Child's Play to support" it, that would be problematic. My thought is, make rules about that, then. Retake isn't a hotly debated political issue and the organization was clear that CPC wasn't supporting their cause. It just looks amazingly ugly, I'm sorry. If you don't want to be tainted by association, give the money back and let Retake give it to another charity.

Probably one of the smartest things I've read on this. It is really hard to see it any other way. "We'll only support you until it's beneficial to us, and then we'll take the money and tell you to fuck off." Like I've stated other times, flip flopping only when it's fucking convenient for you; the hypocrisy in this situation is astounding. If they thought this would be a problem, they should have stopped it at the beginning instead of twiddling their thumbs. Retake Mass Effect 3 was steamrolling from day one, and if they didn't feel it was in their best interest, should have acted on it, instead of making it look like they're trying to double-up for their own benefit. That's bullshit. And I'm not sorry about saying that.

My gut reaction was that it's stupid, but after a little thought, I can see their stance. "Donate to X to protest Y" is a very slippery slope.

Still, it was a much more effective strategy than aimlessly complaining online. It got news, it got attention, and it made the movement see less outright hostile. I'd imagine they'd have credibility issues if they just wanted to star their own charity, but there are many charities who just don't give a damn about the controversy surrounding Mass Effect 3's ending that would gladly take the money. I have to imagine Child's Play was selected for it's connection to video games and how popular it is in the community, but that's also the reason that it put them in such a bind to accept such donations.

@Napalm said:

@Mesoian said:

http://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/r93jo/retake_mass_effect_fund_raiser_under_attack_by/c43yppv

More about it.

"Yes, IF someone took a hotly debated political issue and said "Donate to Child's Play to support" it, that would be problematic. My thought is, make rules about that, then. Retake isn't a hotly debated political issue and the organization was clear that CPC wasn't supporting their cause.

It just looks amazingly ugly, I'm sorry. If you don't want to be tainted by association, give the money back and let Retake give it to another charity."

Probably one of the smartest things I've read on this. It's hard to see it any other way. "We'll only support you until it's beneficial to us, and then we'll take the money and tell you to fuck off."

Except in the same thread they already explained their reasoning and said that if anyone wanted their money back to contact them because they'd be happy to refund them.

It's really beyond me how fucking overdramatic everything to do with Bioware and Mass Effect 3 has gotten. It's not a fucking conspiracy, it's a charity that formerly had no real guidelines set up about fundraisers that is trying to figure out how to handle this one and fundraisers in the future.

Neutral to this. Makes sense in the scheme of things, but it sucks that kids won't get as much help as they would have. Ah well.

I wouldn't want to be associated with idiots either. Donate because it's a good cause and not because you want to throw a hissy fit when you didn't get your bottle.

@mutha3 said:

@Hailinel said:

Why do you care that Child's Play chose to cut off the drive at $80,000?

Because they cut themselves off from(potentially) 20K or more dollars they could have use to get kids toys. Which is the only thing I care about when giving money to Child's play. Not whether their contributors hearts' are pure or whatever. Your turn.

I care about this argument because I think it's stupid that people are protesting Child's Play for asking the organizer to wind the donations down. As noted in the reddit thread, this was the result of a civil communication, not a command.

@Napalm said:

Probably one of the smartest things I've read on this. It's hard to see it any other way. "We'll only support you until it's beneficial to us, and then we'll take the money and tell you to fuck off." Like I've stated other times, flip flopping only when it's fucking convenient for you; the hypocrisy in this situation is fucking astounding.

Except that that's totally not what happened, but sure, if that's how you want to read it, go right ahead I guess.

@Hailinel said:

@Mcfart said:

People are weird. "I hate Mass Effects ending soo much that Ima donate money to charity".

Like, just donate?

This. Regardless of their intentions, the people involved make themselves look as though they're using the charity as means to demonstrate that their intent to get a new ending from Bioware is somehow not a selfish endeavor. If people want to donate to Child's Play, then they should donate either independently or through events that aren't spurred by selfish desires.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

@FateOfNever: So because they wrote some nice letters that everything was mutual and dandy and rainbows and shit? Just because there's a guy in a suit smiling at you while letting you down nicely doesn't change the situation. Child's Play Charity had a chance at the beginning to shut the charity down for this exact reason. But, they didn't. They got their money, and now they shut it down. And individual refunds isn't the point. Like the guy I quoted said, if they didn't want to be tainted by association, they should give the money back and let RME give it to another charity that isn't going to capitalize off other people. I can guarantee you that if RME didn't take in any money, they would have let it run its course. But, that's not what happened. Child's Play got their money first before they gave the shaft. Facts are facts.

So let me guess, this is where you say, "well, CPC is a corporate entity and they can choose to do what they want, as long as it protects their interest, blah, blah, blah." That opinion flies in the face of the general outside opinion on this being, "games are art, bro." Like, I said, continual hypocrisy when it is beneficial to you. Stick to your guns, which literally every person hasn't done.

Also, this is my last post in this topic. I'm sick of talking about and having to defend my position to a bunch of idiots who think we're all, "self entitled babies".

This whole thing was stupid- it could have easily been interpreted that they were raising funds under false pretenses, I'm surprised they didn't shut it down sooner.

Child's Play clearly don't want to intone that they've taken a position on this nonsense - possibly because it ultimately cuts to the core of what artistic integrity is, when you're asking game makers to essentially redo the story they told.

Expecting them to say "meh, money is money" is ridiculous. Their objective is to generate money for their charity - not to become involuntarily associated with every nerdrage movement that comes along.

If these people want to donate to Child's Play, then they can donate independently. Instead they are using this selfish cause of theirs to grandstand with a larger pool of money, and involving Child's Play in the process.

The heights this Mass Effect 3 rage has reached, is truly mental.

the people behind retake mass effect shouldn't have associated their stupid nerdrage cause with a charity that actually does important work. I approve of childs play's decision.

and getting mad because childs play took the money and then shut the thing down is just darkly humorous, in that it makes it even more obvious than it was before that the whole donating to give kids in hospitals games to play comes a far second in terms of importance in the minds of the people behind retake mass effect to "fixing" the ending of mass effect 3.

this whole thing over the ending of that game is so stupid.