After a Sony vice president stoked hype by stating that No Man's Sky was "potentially one of the biggest games in the history of our industry", Sony President Shuhei Yoshida, is now throwing Hello games under the bus somewhat (or at least trying to establish distance from the developer) by saying the following,

"I understand some of the criticisms especially Sean Murray is getting, because he sounded like he was promising more features in the game from day one. It wasn't a great PR strategy, because he didn't have a PR person helping him, and in the end he is an indie developer."

Which very much leads me to wonder what Sony's partnership with Hello games actually was? Weren't they on board to provide promotional and marketing assistance? Why didn't they step in at some point?

The development history of this game will be fascinating to hear about when it all comes out in the wash.

It just looks to me like the developer bit of more than they can chew. A company's ambitious project gets puts into the spotlight, one of the biggest publishers in the industry offers exposure, the dev rushes to meet the deadline for fear of disappointing the fans and the publisher and cuts promised features.

If NMS was never hyped up so much by Sony it would either be realeased two years later and end up an indie gem or go the course of so many promising ambitious indie games and turn out underwhelming.

I just saw a comment (in a reddit thread) showing that Sean Murray-the day before No Man Sky launched-linked to two fan made guides about what will be available in No Man's Sky based off of preview coverage. They both included multiple things that did not end up in the shipped game, yet Murray made a post referencing how both these guides do a good job explaining what the game is. As the OP of the comment suggests, either Murray continued these lies till the day of release, or he never read the guides and just blindly added to the misinformation and hype.

The farther away from the launch we get, the more information I'm seeing that points to a lot of intentional misleading/lying from Hello Games. It's so bizarre to see someone that seemed so passionate and genuine as Sean Murray pull this kind of stuff. It seems like at certain point Hello Games saw themselves to deep to pull back and temper expectations and just went with it. This is something I've done, with a lie, but never on this grand a scale.

It's strange that Sony did not step in with PR and marketing people for this game from the beginning. But you would also think that they had seen the game before hand and noticed the difference between reality and what Hello Games were saying in interviews and would have stepped in then.

@sloppydetective: on a recent bombcast Adam Boyes said he'd played 20 hours of NMS (while at Sony) some months ago. So Sony's people were playing the game well ahead of release and *must have known* that the expectation-to-reality gap was dangerously big. Not just because of the hype-inflating effect of the internet generally, but also because of the messaging coming out of Hello games about the NMS's features. Features that flat out weren't and aren't in the game.

Someone at Sony dropped the ball and missed the opportunity to reign things in and get the hype under some kind of control. I guess I'm just intrigued to find out what their role in terms of marketing and promotional support actually was (given what we actually now know about the product)?

@sloppydetective: Its just down to human judgement as far as Sony stepping in goes. I think it's definitely plausible that the contact people between Hello and Sony just plain didn't realise the game wasn't where it needed to be, or decided to trust Hello that it would be before release. Murray's refusal to back down on anything they had said could be so compulsive he even did it in internal relations. I think most of us know how hard it is to back out of a lie when it really gets going, especially when we really want it to be true. In his position I wouldn't want to admit I had lied to myself either.

I'm surprised he was so frank about it but it doesn't seem like throwing them under the bus. Hello Games did what they did and shipped.

... I still don't understand all the anger towards this game and it's developers. It's a very fun game it's not something to play hours and hours on end but it's a lot of fun....

If the game had charged 20 USD I bet there never would have been backlash.

I don't know if he's throwing them under the bus but it's definitely not something that had to be said especially this far after release when most people have all but moved on, and definitely doesn't make Sony look like a great business partner to have. In this case specifically they really should have adhered to the old saying "if you don't have nothing nice to say then don't say anything at all."

Did Sony provide them any more service than is normal? I thought the support Sony gave was standard stuff and the buzz just went crazy on its own.

No Mans Sky was super disappointing but Shu's comments are really fucked up. One of the big reasons it was overhyped was because of Sony.

Alot of the anger is because its a $60 and HG flat out lied about features the game was going to have. The end result is nothing like was depicted in all the earlier trailers. On top of that, people are frustrated because HG has not communicated at all since the launch of the game.

i think that's all fair, but you know what's a really easy way to avoid getting angry? don't buy day 1.

as much as one might be pissed by pre-release coverage, everyone knew the price well in advance.

so long as they continue to preorder consumers are buying products based on promises and aspirations as opposed to the game in-hand.

@mellotronrules: I haven't purchased the game yet, but I'm angry at the situation. You don't have to pre-order or even purchase a game to be invested in it being a good game. I had conversations with friends about the game where I said as long as the game is what they are saying and showing it to be I'll be happy. And here I am upset about it. If they were just honest about what was being cut from the game I would be disappointed but not angry about it.

Man, I'm no fan of the what I've seen of NMS, but this is not something you say about a business partner. Especially for a large corporation who marketed the shit out of this game and whose 2013 E3 presentation was all about "check out how many indies we're supporting!".

Also - "he didn't have a PR person helping him"?? What the hell did you guys at Sony do for Hello Games, then? I'd imagine PR and marketing is a huge portion of being a publisher.

Highly unprofessional for Shu to say these things. If I were an indie dev working with Sony, I'd be very concerned.

I know there are lists and shit of the things "promised" that NMS didn't deliver, but much of the "hype" for this game was external. A bunch of people got super fucking excited and built up incredibly unrealistic expectations of what this game could be, and Sony/HG let it happen for obvious reasons. Then, when it unsurprisingly turned out not to be the ultimate video game, these same people flipped their shit. That situation could only end in disappointment. Yeah, HG and Sony share some blame for not slowing the hype train, but a large portion of the people who are apoplectic about NMS need to point some fingers in the mirror as well.

For Sony to make this dicky statement now to trash HG is weak. Sony knew what they were doing promoting this and letting expectations go unchecked, and I promise you they aren't the slightest bit upset for the people who spent their money on NMS and/or some PS4s to play it. From what I can tell, NMS doesn't even look like a particularly bad game; it's just not the game people hoped it would be.

i suppose that can be true- it's just a feeling i find completely alien. disappointment i get- this thing looked incredible from the get-go. but i remember bombcasts years back where vinny effectively said, "there's no way they can possibly deliver on this, right? i mean it's a 5 man team!" and in the run up to release most of the games press had an attitude akin to "what's up with no man's sky? is that game going to be good?"

i earnestly don't mean this to sound condescending, but i wonder how many truly ANGRY folks about this (those that feel personally attacked and are review-bombing, filing BBB complaints, etc.) are just naive with respect to the industry. this isn't the first time there's been big promises with a lackluster delivery, and it sure as shootin won't be the last.

Pretty much, i remember when it was first announced for 60$ and a lot of people on this site were shocked lol. Game looks exactly like what i thought it would be and that's why i didn't buy it.

As far as PR, that's on sony and this is just a way to take focus away from their involvement.

@mellotronrules: There's different levels of angry. I'm not going to file a lawsuit or harass someone on social media over this. But when I think about the game and how they spoke about it and how they showed it off before release I'm going to feel angry at them because the situation is more than just a Moleyniux. These guys showed gameplay showing one thing and then over the course of development never said that the game changed from what they showed. In some ways they just avoided not saying it changed, in others they lied about it still being what they previously showed. I'm disappointed how the game turned out and angry with how the team handled it.

@mems1224:

I really don't see that argument. I mean trailers are always vertical splices of game development. Also HG was always very vague on a final feature list, reason being I think it was changing up till the day one patch.

As for the price... Well I think COD shouldnt be $60, why cause I don't play the MP therefore $60 dollars seems to high for a 4 hour SP campaign. Does that mean I think they shouldn't charge $60, no it's a free market. If you think a game isn't worth the price than don't buy it or wait till it goes on sale...

This is absolute trash by Sony. This is exactly what a publisher is supposed to do for an indie and lets not act like Hello Games was out there freewheeling and also like Sony was not at all aware of what they were up to.

I think both deserve blame for sure. But trying to deflect it all speaks very poorly of Sony as a publisher.

@extintor said:

And why exactly would they do that? to lower sales? I don't think so... Let the hype build up, let them pre orders come in, we get our money and then let the dev take all the flak, plus the real irony is that I wouldn't be at all surprised if many of the features got cut because of weak console limitations.

That's a messed up thing to do. Sony isn't looking too good lately.

Yeah, it's kinda weird to talk about the PR missteps when you're fuckin Sony who was helping publish the damn thing. I get wanting to preserve the indie feel by having the indie dev give his indie chats (if that even had anything to do with it), but don't then turn around and say the PR strategy was a mistake in a way that doesn't explicitely outline that it was also your mistake. But maybe that's not how he meant it. Maybe when he talks about the lack of a PR person he actually is referring to Sony's involvement (or lack thereof).

He didn't say anything that wasn't obvious to anyone paying attention.

Jeff brought this up in yesterday's podcast also - I just listened through and you can hear what he has to say about it at around the 2hr mark.

@theht: Yeah and I hadn't heard Jeff's money quote yet about Sony being fully behind the game as if it was first party from before that he dropped on the Bombcast, like @extintor mentions above. Not only do they say full support, but say it's basically first party and not even looked at as an indie game in its first party status.

Real bullshit from Sony here.

Playing the indy card after charging 60 bucks is pretty rich..

A conversation between SM (Sean Murray) and Sony, aka some dumb shit that popped into my head.

Sony : The reviews of your game should be finalized within the week. I've already discussed the matter with the websites.

SM : I take it they were agreeable?

Sony : They didn't really have a choice.

SM : Have they been excited?

Sony : Oh yes, most certainly. When I mentioned to them that we could give them pre-release copies for No Man's Sky they were so willing it was almost pathetic.

SM : This excitement, the hype has been intensifying to the point where we may not be able to contain it.

Sony : Why contain it? Let it spill over into the forums and threads, let the pre-orders pile up in the retailers. In the end they will be begging us to release the game.

SM : I've received reports of leaks on twitch. There's not enough footage to go around, and the players are starting to get desperate.

have to say im with you @twi, its not lived up to my expectations but the gaming world is better off for having NMS in it

i just hope all these people never turn on the news or listen to a politician, they'll be surprised at what people get away with

Sony step in?

Blaming Sony makes about as much sense as blaming MS for shortcomings of Titanfall.

Hello Games made it like they were always going to make it and Sony just kicked in enough money and marketing to get a console exclusivity.

Did Sony really promote this out the wazoo? They aired some previews at conferences and such, did a live demo, right? I didn't see any TV advertising or even online advertising for the game. Not that it needed it after everyone got so excited at first look.

Sony featured a gameplay demo of Assassin's Creed III onstage at E3 2012. Was that game Sony's fault too?

@flippyandnod: Sony did stage demos at multiple shows, had various game sites plastered with ads, ran preview events for press to attend (one which Brad went to), and direct from their employees said it was for all intensive purposes treated as a Sony first party game. So you're wrong about all that.

Sony did more than just kick in money to make it exclusive. They did marketing (of which you missed as I said above) and which also means PR... which they are completely throwing Hello Games under the bus regarding. That's exactly what a publisher is supposed to do in the relationship.

If Microsoft came in with this treatment of Titanfall they would be in the wrong too. But they didn't. You're wrong about the relationship and missing how this statement is not one other publishers made in your examples.

@artisanbreads: That's exactly what a publisher is supposed to do in the relationship.

Sony didn't publish No Man's Sky. Again, they just kicked in enough money and advertising to get a console exclusivity. Okay, so there was more advertising than I saw, I'll give you that.

It's like Titanfall. MS advertised the heck out of that but they didn't publish it either. Remember?

By "throwing under the bus" you mean Sony is criticizing the PR (and promises) made by the developer/publisher. I don't see how explaining that you wouldn't have done the same things is a terrible thing.

@adequatelyprepared: Cerny spoke of the procedural City in the Cloud; soon that City will be a virtual reality.

@flippyandnod: man, you sound crazy to me. How can you read things like what that former VP said, hear the hype that Sony continued to push, see Sony plaster NMS EVERYWHERE, and still say that this doesn't sound completely shitty on Yoshida's part? Falling back on the "well they didn't publish it" just sounds silly. He didn't need to slam HG here at all, but he did. Why? It rings like some kind of dirt bag political tactic to all of the sudden act like now you were just as duped.

Also, I don't see the relevance of MS and Titanfall. To my knowledge you never had Spencer or someone at his level coming out after the fact and bagging on Respawn or EA because it didn't exacfly blow up like MS likely hoped.

Two thoughts.

1. Sony ought to hold this. I don't care what they want to say the relationship was now, back then Sony adopted NMS as a flagship console-selling exclusive and hyped the shit out of it. And I'm not even saying crucify Sony for "publishing" a bad game. Game development is hard, a struggling smaller developer has to ship at some point and the publisher does have to draw the line at some point. I get the sense that a similar thing happened with ReCore, and I'm not exactly livid at MS for letting that game out the door (despite really wanting that game to be GOTY good). But ffs, getting out there and throwing the dev under the bus like that? Ugh.
2. I actually feel bad for Hello Games. A developer can't even fucking talk passionately about their game these days, because people are so juvenile that they will interpret imaginative talk about potential mechanics as iron-clad promises and if those mechanics don't pan out then the dev is a FUCKING LIAR who is VIOLATING MY FRAGILE RIGHTS AS A HARD DONE BY GAMER. When did really wanting something become enough of a justification to take every recorded word as a promise? Geez, the volume of abuse going the way of Hello Games reminds me of a Justine Sacco style witch hunt, I hope they have good health plans. Especially Sean Murray. I was never all that on-board with this game, but now every waking hour must be a living nightmare for the guy, and I gotta say, I feel for him.

What do you think the NMS team showed Sony themselves? Something other than what they had to show the public? If anything they probably had features in the works that never saw public attention.

1. Devs can be passionate about games without announcing features/showing footage of features that don't make it. Granted, features always get dropped in development but they really need to show the GUARANTEED FEATURES in a game. In other words, what is the meat of the game? Publically show that instead of stuff that might not make it.

2. Yes, Sony are being incredibly unprofessional here. Since people can't get refunds on PS4 games, then Sony heavily profited off the hype, and they know it. As for the PC, there were likely a lot of refunds on Steam and GoG.

@flippyandnod: Sony published the physical copies of No Man's Sky.

Also, I think Hello Games fucked up quite a bit in making this game and in how they talked about it publicly. But mistakes were made on both ends. I can't believe No Man's Sky ever would have been a $60 release if not for Sony's involvement and publishing of the game as a full retail game that got pressed as a disc, and that was the root of a ton of its problems. Both parties blew this one big time and now to shit on Hello Games like you were not there all along is a joke on Sony's part. I have never seen a publisher stoop so low that I can remember.

I think I might have been mistaking Sony as either having some kind of a quality control or a PR strategy, and for having a level of respect for the gamers that have made them the current market leaders. Most of all I am confused about how Sony can position themselves as being "friend-of-the-indie-dev" after all of this.

But yes, if the expectation instead is naked corporate greed and taking no responsibility for failure then sure, this was a totally predictable move.

As far as I know, Sony was not involved in the production of NMS. Someone at HG (Sean, I think) even said they turned down Sony's financial assistance for the development. What they did was marketing and distribution on PS4, so while Sony are not blameless, HG and Murray are the ones largely responsible for this whole mess.

I think it's worth noting that while Shuhei Yoshida's English is very very good, he's not completely on top of it, "he didn't have a PR person helping him" and "he is an indie developer" sound a little blunt, as most Japanese/English interviews tend to sound, but use a little more English and they could become "With a PR team the marketing of the game could have been better" and "As the head of an indie team making a massive game, there is a lot of pressure on Murray and Hello Games".

I'm not trying to change the message, just trying to place the context in the right way, i think NMS was always designed to be a sort of walking sim with some extra mechanics, but the marketing determined the hype (Murray is at fault also) which determined the full retail price, which were both massively greater than what the original design intended.

What an utterly hilarious overreaction of a thread title.

"I undersand some of the criticisms."

YOSHIDA MURDERS DEVELOPER IN HIS SLEEP

@geraltitude: No wonder Sean Murray has been so quiet since the release of the game! He's been dead this whole time!

You know I still don't get why so many people lost their shit over this game. I thought it was pretty obvious from the beginning that it was "open" and "limitless" in the context of an indie title that was getting Sony coverage because of the level of interest from the user base.

perhaps..? but I think its a fair characterization of what happened.

Jeff also used exactly the same phrase to describe the situation in this week's bombcast.

My jaw slightly dropped when I heard Jeff talk about this on the bombcast. That's some low bar shit.

https://twitter.com/yosp/status/786663989283610624

Related. Popped up a few days ago and seems strange coming from the same fella who practically threw Hello Games under the bus.

As much as I find Yoshida's comments from nearly a month ago distasteful, the responses to that tweet are utterly ruthless and twisted, and I can kinda see how maybe nobody knows the right thing to say publicly to that horde of frothy-mouthed aggrieved gamers under these circumstances.