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MechaMarshmallow

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MechaMarshmallow

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@contradictionvg: This isn't usually my sort of game but you've managed to make a really cool thing! I have to ask, though, because I was wondering from pretty much the moment the game began: Did you intentionally model Jenks after an early-90s Richard O'Brien, or was that just fantastic luck that made him an even more hilarious character to me?

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MechaMarshmallow

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@eccentrix said:

@mechamarshmallow: I always thought that was a smaller shard of the smashed mirror; the murder weapon. It's such an irregular shape and weird size that I never thought of it as anything else. Unless you're talking about a specific mention of them having another mirror somewhere else.

It looked to be in an oval shape to me, like a hand mirror. Also, the way that it was talked about, it did not seem like the police had a compelling reason to think it was the murder weapon. Eve and/or Hannah probably disposed of the shattered mirror, because it would be an obvious murder weapon considering that his throat was slashed with a piece of it. If it was a shard, it seems strange to me that they didn't pursue its potential as a murder weapon harder than they did.

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MechaMarshmallow

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I like split personalities, mainly because I thought of it when I wasn't even playing the game. Also, I really like the idea of there only be one mirror.

Unfortunately we know that there must be two mirrors, because the police have one of them in one interview as evidence.

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MechaMarshmallow

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@ratamero said:

Not sure if this was mentioned, but there is a third possibility in which a very clever woman crafts the whole thing (including the ambiguity between twins/split personalities) to try and get away with murder.

(The tap codes are "LOVEU" and "BYDHANNAN", where D is a tap away from E and N is a tap away from H, which means that "Eve" probably just made some mistakes there, something that I doubt someone who grew up using it all the time would make, which credits the fabrication hypothesis)

I took that to be a difference between Hannah and Eve. In the twins theory, it is Hannah who taps out LOVEU correctly, and Eve who makes a mistake.

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I like that it is ambiguous but I would like to get to a more definitive answer. I saw almost all the clips, but I know they can't fill in all the blanks.

I would absolutely love to get a more definitive answer. I'm pretty solidly in the twins camp, but I can agree that there are arguments for multiple personalities. I don't think either theory is flawless, so it would be very interesting to get official word at some point on what the truth is (if there even is one.)

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@planetfunksquad said:

@spunkyhepanda: maybe Eve wanted Hannah to inherit the house. Hannah had moved in with Simons parents and Eve was alone. Maybe Eve missed her life with Hannah so much she thought if Hannah had the house back Eve could live in the attic again like the old days? I'm still team split on this, but I think that makes sense for a team twins perspective?

That totally makes sense to me. Hannah and Simon living with Simon's parents made it impossible for Eve to be with her sister or with Simon (at least until later when she met him elsewhere). The mushroom thing suggests that it was either suicide, Hannah or Eve, and Eve is the one with the motive to have Hannah and Simon living by themselves.

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MechaMarshmallow

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@rethla said:

@mechamarshmallow: There are no outright explanations but there are things that can be taken as subtle hints.

She sourly states that "Simon loves blondes" and there is that hair they found and all the time Simon spends at the bar. I also get the impression there never was two mirrors, one of the mirrors is the murderweapon and when she gets the question about the other mirror she avoidingly answears that she put it in a "safe place".

The thing with blondes, fair enough. Hannah didn't know about the twin at that point so that could have been a veeeery subtle suggestion at an affair with Helen. I assumed it was simply hinting at what was to come, the significance of the wig.

The mirror makes sense, though. I mean, she has the intact mirror as evidence in one video. In the twin theory, it's Eve answering that question, and Hannah received both of the mirrors. She wouldn't necessarily know where the intact one was, and didn't want to let on to the truth about there being two.

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@rethla said:

@mechamarshmallow said:

Personally, as much as I think there is some interesting evidence that it could be just one person, the fact that the police found a whole lot of unknown fingerprints without any other explanation than it being the one who's prints did not get taken pretty much tells me that they are twins. I've not seen anything in the game to suggest there was any other way of them getting there.

Yeh the fingerprints are alluring like everything else. I mean it kinda proves that there has been a third person in the crimescene but if anything that just checks out Hannahs story. The "hidden twin theory" aint exactly the go to explanation for a set of unknown fingerprints on a crimescene.

What if Simon has a twin eh? :) Or what if Simon was cheating with someone, Diana as an example?

Well, this is the part where this being a well written story is important. Usually you won't have things like a second twin or an affair without at least a good bit of hinting at them. Even if there are some pretty shaky explanations for some of the things on the 'twins' side of things, they are still explanations which gives them credence in fiction. The number of things that conflict with the crazy theory which aren't even addressed as having other explanations in-world is such that I don't believe having her being split personality was the author's intent.

Of course, 'La mort de l'autheur' and all that. We don't have to read the story with the author's intent in mind, but the lack of significant in-story explanations that any of these things were true makes it feel like a clumsy explanation to me.

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Personally, as much as I think there is some interesting evidence that it could be just one person, the fact that the police found a whole lot of unknown fingerprints without any other explanation than it being the one who's prints did not get taken pretty much tells me that they are twins. I've not seen anything in the game to suggest there was any other way of them getting there.

A lot of the things that happen in the story like living in the attic for years and somehow getting out of the Bob Dylan situation without being found out are far-fetched, I will agree, but for me it comes down to this being a pretty well written story. In fiction, it's perfectly fair to have something very unlikely happen as long as you give an explanation, no matter how flaky it is. 'They never went up there' or 'I blamed it on my friend, and they believed me.' But very rarely will you have a true red herring inserted to trick the reader in to believing something to be true without eventually admitting that there was another method by which it could have got there.

Of course, given the number of odd and shaky details in both possible explanations, it could well be the case that the author wanted to make it a story where either interpretation could be equally true, and it's your choice which you want it to be. Even if that was the case, I'd probably still choose to believe the twins story. It feels like it carries a lot more emotional weight and meaning than the 'she's nutso' one.

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@nodima said:

To be honest, I notice this in most games writing and have also noticed it creeping into movies / television more and more. But it does stand out in such a dialogue heavy game as this one. I don't remember Shepherd dealing with the same issues so I don't think it's a writing thing.

I mainly notice it with characters who are supposed to sound "cool" or "stoic". They often speak like the character they're speaking to is in their head rather than a separate character and it sounds a little like inner monologues writ public.

Video game people more and more seem to speak like this: "Had a dream, a bad one. Felt sad after. Came time for me to make a move."

Rather than: "I had a dream last night, a bad dream. I felt sad afterwards, and it came time for me to make my move."

I get that oftentimes it's a struggle to find more naturalistic speech patterns in dialogue compared to proper grammar, but I don't actually know many people that speak that way specifically. It feels very writerly.

Thinking about it, could that come from Rorcharch in Watchmen? Maybe the trope is older than that, but he is certainly the first I saw in the vein of 'dark stoic antihero who speaks in fragments'. Of course, it fit him perfectly because he was a paranoid recluse of cripplingly poor social ability. It feels a little less natural on characters like Geralt. Not that I particularly dislike Geralt's voice. It's just noticeable given the writing that everyone else gets.