Will Star Wars: The Old Republic be the first misstep for BioWare in a long time? Seems so. While considered a strong World of WarCraft contender by many gamers, it might not be so bright on the press side of things. BioWare let some press play recent version of the game and guess what - it doesn’t seem to be that great.
There is a nice summary in Mike Nelson’s preview over at 1UP:
“Great ideas wrapped in an aging design.”
Great ideas are not enough
Embrace the other side! If it turns out Nelson is right, BioWare and EA might be in trouble. And that is not good. That’s definitely not good if you going against juggernaut like World of WarCraft, which is updated like hell, most recently by Cataclysm. I assume it’s safe to say that Star Wars: The Old Republic will be targeted at pretty much similar audience that World of WarCraft is. And this audience will be expecting something much more than “great ideas” and “aging design.” Star Wars: The Old Republic must be bursting with great content and plenty of options for players - good PvP, end-game content, battle grounds, and tons and tons of other things. Great ideas are just not enough. Not these days.
Look at Richard Garriott’s Tabula Rasa. That game was packed with great and innovative ideas and it totally flopped. It may be possible that BioWare saw this failure and they decided not to be bold, but to just copy Blizzard’s money machine. I know, Richard Garriott’s Tabula Rasa may have flopped for a hundred different reasons, but the big innovations were certainly a factor in it’s demise.
I don’t think you can compete with World of WarCraft using “the old MMO model” - and by that I mean rushed buggy release of a largely broken game with only fifth of promised content. Almost every big MMO was released more or less like this. Even World of WarCraft’s launch was far from perfect. But now? Now you just can’t afford to do that. You get couple hundred thousand subscribers at launch, then half of them will get back to World of WarCraft after first month and the others will leave at some point anyway. And what’s left after one or two years? Only a few subscribers and very angry publisher.
From Tython with love
Now back to Nelson’s preview. Let’s elaborate on that “aging design.” By that Nelson meant bad quest design. Here’s the quote:
Let me reintroduce you two: Flesh Raider meet Jedi, Jedi meet Flesh Raider.
“From the opening moments of the starting zone on Tython (the Jedi's starting area for SWTOR) as a Jedi Knight, my first couple of quests revolve around killing x-number of Flesh Raiders (hulking slimy beasts resembling something out of The Last Starfighter ), or tracking down a series of Padawans who are trapped by said Flesh Raiders in the surrounding area. After some experience progression and then grinding through some similar quests, it all culminates with a showdown against an evil Sith apprentice who has taken up a residence in the nearby Gnarls Cavern. After dispatching more Flesh Raiders and eventually the Sith apprentice, I report my findings to a nearby Jedi Master Orgus -- who senses great promise in me and decides to take me under his wing to teach me more about the ways of the Force. Thus the adventure of my character begins, but not before I continue to carry out a series of rudimentary quests in the surrounding areas of Tython."
Seriously BioWare? I know it must be probably very hard to fill huge MMORPG game with hundreds or thousands quests and keep them unique and interesting. Hell, it is probably impossible. But to make early game questing so boring, unimaginative and grindy is really very bad idea. The rest of the game might be super awesome and the end-game might be brilliantly original, but everybody will have to do these starting quests. And I can’t imagine how many players will be turned off by that. It’s not 2004 again, when these quests did get a pass from the press and players in World of Warcraft. Since then, World of WarCraft has evolved.
Of course it’s just a starting area for one class, so the press saw very small portion of the game. But it doesn’t make any sense. Why would BioWare show such thing to the press? We all know they can do great quests, so what better place in the new hyped Star Wars MMO would be for them, than in the very beginning? True, other starting areas might have awesome quests and Tython starting area might get reworked. But it’s definetly not a good sign. I know there might be million different reasons why developers should include some sort of grind in the game (good podcast on this subject here), but it should be at least covered in some clever way, especially in starting areas.
Size matters... Not!
If that wouldn’t be truth, nothing would ever beat World of WarCraft. I just want to be crystal clear - I’m not saying that Star Wars: The Old Republic (or anything else) must beat World of WarCraft to be successful. No way. World of WarCraft can be taken down by time and by a ton of other games, probably. In time. It doesn’t matter how big The Old Republic will be, but it absolutely must have things gamers expect from AAA MMO these days. And it must be polished. And above all, it must be great game in general. And that might not be truth, not just according to Nelson’s preview.
I’m sure most of you are familiar with EA Louse. If you are not, read this. Sadly, EA Louse might have been right. Lets just quickly recap his main quotes about Star Wars: The Old Republic:
“They’ve spent more money making the Old Republic than James Cameron spent on Avatar. Shit you not. More than $ 300 million! Can you believe that?”
And this one: Like this, but with sound. A lot of sound.
“And you know what they’re most proud of? This is the kicker. They are most proud of the sound. No seriously. Something like a 20Gig installation, and most of it is voiceover work. That’s the best they have. The rest of the game is a joke. EA knows it and so does George Lucas, they’re panicking, and so most of Mythic has already been cannibalized to work in Austin on it because they can’t keep pushing back launch.”
It is not confirmed if this is true, but we know that Star Wars: The Old Republic is EA’s largest project ever. EA’s CFO Eric Brown confirmed that, as reported by Eurogamer. It’s also nice to know the publisher is aware of competition. Eric Brown again, this time reported by MCV:
“Our assumptions for break-even and profitability are not seven-digit subscribers. We think we can run and operate a very successful and profitable MMO at different levels.”
Ok, they don’t need millions of subscribers, good for them. But can they really operate this game for years and have e.g. 500k subscribers? Now bear in mind that Star Wars: The Old Republic will be probably micro-transactions based MMO, although it wasn’t officially announced yet (EA’s CEO John Riccitiello hinted that, but according to ShackNews, he might have been misunderstood. Poor John.).
May the Force be with you
I was extremely excited for Star Wars: The Old Republic. But now, after the most recent wave of hands on articles on the web, I lowered my expectations from super-excited to very cautious levels. I hate to admit this, but I’m pretty disappointed. I know it might change and the rest of the game might be super awesome, but you know... I somehow doubt that now.
It is fair to say that those previews confirmed the strengths of Star Wars: The Old Republic - the dialogue wheel, choices, music, impressive audio, funny instances, etc. That’s great. And I’m still looking forward to it. Just more cautiously now. Because this is not what I would expect from BioWare.
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Will Star Wars: The Old Republic be the first misstep for BioWare in a long time? Seems so. While considered a strong World of WarCraft contender by many gamers, it might not be so bright on the press side of things. BioWare let some press play recent version of the game and guess what - it doesn’t seem to be that great.
There is a nice summary in Mike Nelson’s preview over at 1UP:
“Great ideas wrapped in an aging design.”
Great ideas are not enough
Embrace the other side! If it turns out Nelson is right, BioWare and EA might be in trouble. And that is not good. That’s definitely not good if you going against juggernaut like World of WarCraft, which is updated like hell, most recently by Cataclysm. I assume it’s safe to say that Star Wars: The Old Republic will be targeted at pretty much similar audience that World of WarCraft is. And this audience will be expecting something much more than “great ideas” and “aging design.” Star Wars: The Old Republic must be bursting with great content and plenty of options for players - good PvP, end-game content, battle grounds, and tons and tons of other things. Great ideas are just not enough. Not these days.
Look at Richard Garriott’s Tabula Rasa. That game was packed with great and innovative ideas and it totally flopped. It may be possible that BioWare saw this failure and they decided not to be bold, but to just copy Blizzard’s money machine. I know, Richard Garriott’s Tabula Rasa may have flopped for a hundred different reasons, but the big innovations were certainly a factor in it’s demise.
I don’t think you can compete with World of WarCraft using “the old MMO model” - and by that I mean rushed buggy release of a largely broken game with only fifth of promised content. Almost every big MMO was released more or less like this. Even World of WarCraft’s launch was far from perfect. But now? Now you just can’t afford to do that. You get couple hundred thousand subscribers at launch, then half of them will get back to World of WarCraft after first month and the others will leave at some point anyway. And what’s left after one or two years? Only a few subscribers and very angry publisher.
From Tython with love
Now back to Nelson’s preview. Let’s elaborate on that “aging design.” By that Nelson meant bad quest design. Here’s the quote:
Let me reintroduce you two: Flesh Raider meet Jedi, Jedi meet Flesh Raider.
“From the opening moments of the starting zone on Tython (the Jedi's starting area for SWTOR) as a Jedi Knight, my first couple of quests revolve around killing x-number of Flesh Raiders (hulking slimy beasts resembling something out of The Last Starfighter ), or tracking down a series of Padawans who are trapped by said Flesh Raiders in the surrounding area. After some experience progression and then grinding through some similar quests, it all culminates with a showdown against an evil Sith apprentice who has taken up a residence in the nearby Gnarls Cavern. After dispatching more Flesh Raiders and eventually the Sith apprentice, I report my findings to a nearby Jedi Master Orgus -- who senses great promise in me and decides to take me under his wing to teach me more about the ways of the Force. Thus the adventure of my character begins, but not before I continue to carry out a series of rudimentary quests in the surrounding areas of Tython."
Seriously BioWare? I know it must be probably very hard to fill huge MMORPG game with hundreds or thousands quests and keep them unique and interesting. Hell, it is probably impossible. But to make early game questing so boring, unimaginative and grindy is really very bad idea. The rest of the game might be super awesome and the end-game might be brilliantly original, but everybody will have to do these starting quests. And I can’t imagine how many players will be turned off by that. It’s not 2004 again, when these quests did get a pass from the press and players in World of Warcraft. Since then, World of WarCraft has evolved.
Of course it’s just a starting area for one class, so the press saw very small portion of the game. But it doesn’t make any sense. Why would BioWare show such thing to the press? We all know they can do great quests, so what better place in the new hyped Star Wars MMO would be for them, than in the very beginning? True, other starting areas might have awesome quests and Tython starting area might get reworked. But it’s definetly not a good sign. I know there might be million different reasons why developers should include some sort of grind in the game (good podcast on this subject here), but it should be at least covered in some clever way, especially in starting areas.
Size matters... Not!
If that wouldn’t be truth, nothing would ever beat World of WarCraft. I just want to be crystal clear - I’m not saying that Star Wars: The Old Republic (or anything else) must beat World of WarCraft to be successful. No way. World of WarCraft can be taken down by time and by a ton of other games, probably. In time. It doesn’t matter how big The Old Republic will be, but it absolutely must have things gamers expect from AAA MMO these days. And it must be polished. And above all, it must be great game in general. And that might not be truth, not just according to Nelson’s preview.
I’m sure most of you are familiar with EA Louse. If you are not, read this. Sadly, EA Louse might have been right. Lets just quickly recap his main quotes about Star Wars: The Old Republic:
“They’ve spent more money making the Old Republic than James Cameron spent on Avatar. Shit you not. More than $ 300 million! Can you believe that?”
And this one: Like this, but with sound. A lot of sound.
“And you know what they’re most proud of? This is the kicker. They are most proud of the sound. No seriously. Something like a 20Gig installation, and most of it is voiceover work. That’s the best they have. The rest of the game is a joke. EA knows it and so does George Lucas, they’re panicking, and so most of Mythic has already been cannibalized to work in Austin on it because they can’t keep pushing back launch.”
It is not confirmed if this is true, but we know that Star Wars: The Old Republic is EA’s largest project ever. EA’s CFO Eric Brown confirmed that, as reported by Eurogamer. It’s also nice to know the publisher is aware of competition. Eric Brown again, this time reported by MCV:
“Our assumptions for break-even and profitability are not seven-digit subscribers. We think we can run and operate a very successful and profitable MMO at different levels.”
Ok, they don’t need millions of subscribers, good for them. But can they really operate this game for years and have e.g. 500k subscribers? Now bear in mind that Star Wars: The Old Republic will be probably micro-transactions based MMO, although it wasn’t officially announced yet (EA’s CEO John Riccitiello hinted that, but according to ShackNews, he might have been misunderstood. Poor John.).
May the Force be with you
I was extremely excited for Star Wars: The Old Republic. But now, after the most recent wave of hands on articles on the web, I lowered my expectations from super-excited to very cautious levels. I hate to admit this, but I’m pretty disappointed. I know it might change and the rest of the game might be super awesome, but you know... I somehow doubt that now.
It is fair to say that those previews confirmed the strengths of Star Wars: The Old Republic - the dialogue wheel, choices, music, impressive audio, funny instances, etc. That’s great. And I’m still looking forward to it. Just more cautiously now. Because this is not what I would expect from BioWare.
They are trying to compete with wow directly, they will fail. I think DC Universe has a better shot than this. Is DC Universe going to get wow numbers? No. But what DC has on it's side is, at least from the ps3 beta I've played, a unique brawler type feeling and a sense of power as soon as you start. I can see it having a good life on the ps3.
I played the beta. It was a solid MMO. It won't beat WoW, but it's definitely no slouch. If they drop the sub fees then there's absolutely no reason to not play it.
Even if they don't, trust me when I say this game is not doomed. It probably won't be raking in the money, but it's certainly going to be a blast.
Of all the audiences to compete, surely the Star Wars crowd has the best shot? Galaxies did pretty good numbers in its early (pre Wow) days. I'm sure there are fans who are chomping at the bit for this, plus the legacy of the fantastic KOTOR series will surely count for something. I, for the record, could not really give a 'F' about Star Wars any more, but in combination with Bioware it should be interesting to see if it sticks.
"I know it might change and the rest of the game might be super awesome "
Yeah that's why I'm going to play it and find out for myself. I remember playing WoW for the first time (I jumped in with Burning Crusade) and the Dwarf starting zone was absolutely terrible, but I pushed on and in a couple hours I'd forgotten all about it because I was so excited exploring Ironforge. I know many people can get turned off by the first 30 minutes of a game but most people don't just turn it off at that point and never play it again. If you've bought the game and paid for a couple months or whatever you get past the starting zones.
I agree though that they shouldn't have "kill X monsters" and "find x items" right out the gate, that is pretty lazy, but the other stuff of later game quests and instances that have cutscenes and groups interacting with eachother all in voice looks really fun and I really want to play those bits. Although I do want some mindless "do x for x minutes" types of quests because sometimes I want to be playing these MMOs to relax and a little grind sometimes is good for some people who want to chill out of an evening. If it was all thrills and spills epic cutscenes and unique, super-engaging quests I would probably get burned out.
" They are trying to compete with wow directly, they will fail. I think DC Universe has a better shot than this. Is DC Universe going to get wow numbers? No. But what DC has on it's side is, at least from the ps3 beta I've played, a unique brawler type feeling and a sense of power as soon as you start. I can see it having a good life on the ps3. "
Have you played Champions Online? Cause from the PS3 beta i played (which crashed 4 times on me) it was like anaemic version of that with a DC licence stuck on it. Sure the DC licence (read Batman) will get it pretty far alone, but the gameplay, for me, was a crappier version of CO with less choice. However, at least you can run up buildings now in Super Speed..as long as the camera doesn't freak out..which it usually does.
@Scooper: Sure, I totally agree with you. If it gets positive reviews and good reactions from gamers, I will definetly jump in. I think that all starting zones in the original WoW were really bad and boring. But I just wouldn't expect this sort of quests in 2011. And from BioWare. But hey - one more year to go, so we'll see.
" They are trying to compete with wow directly, they will fail. I think DC Universe has a better shot than this. Is DC Universe going to get wow numbers? No. But what DC has on it's side is, at least from the ps3 beta I've played, a unique brawler type feeling and a sense of power as soon as you start. I can see it having a good life on the ps3. "
Have you played Champions Online? Cause from the PS3 beta i played (which crashed 4 times on me) it was like anaemic version of that with a DC licence stuck on it. Sure the DC licence (read Batman) will get it pretty far alone, but the gameplay, for me, was a crappier version of CO with less choice. However, at least you can run up buildings now in Super Speed..as long as the camera doesn't freak out..which it usually does. "
This. DCUO has even less of a chance at life if it has a sub. However, it does seem to run a helluva lot smoother than CO. I was excited for DCUO, but the complete lack of options at the beginning is laughable.
And am I the only one who found it strange you had to choose a power AND a weapon? In the superhero universe, aren't those usually the same thing? The way this game handles powers/weapons is an extreme mistake that will soon comeback to haunt it.
@Overwatch: The starting zones in WoW still suck NOW, after many updates. But I know what you're saying. It's not good enough to just say "WoW's starting zones are bad and they get millions of subscribers so we're allowed to have bad ones too". Nope. No deal. You've got to make twice the game that WoW is to get subs away from it because since it's so damn popular it's not good enough to just have a game that's "like WoW but more polished and some new mechanics". You've got to reinvent the genre and in a way that Blizzard did with WoW. And that's probably impossible at this point with how much investment that goes into these games, you're not going to see a company spend $300 million on a genre reinventing game. Too risky.
Still, the game is more appealing to me on face value because I really like the Star Wars universe a lot more than the WoW one and to be honest medieval swords & sorcery is fucking over done and mined out to death. Its time for some good sci-fi shit to blow up.
The Old Republic will be the highest rated MMO ever made. It will have 5 million users in the first 2-4 months and over 10 in 8-12 months. Lame Star Wars games like The Forced Unleashed has sold over 8 million units so...
Collect x of y is an instant turn-off. There's really no excuse for that type of mission structure at all anymore; it doesn't take much effort to dress it up in a slightly more engaging manner than that.
I don't think it's doomed though, the Star Wars license has too much pull for that. I think something would need to go spectacularly wrong for it to be a total wash like other recent MMOs have been. I figure they'll shift 2-3 million boxes and have about a 1 million subs in fairly short order. Where it goes from there will obviously depend on whether the game is any good or not.
" Collect x of y is an instant turn-off. There's really no excuse for that type of mission structure at all anymore; it doesn't take much effort to dress it up in a slightly more engaging manner than that. I don't think it's doomed though, the Star Wars license has too much pull for that. I think something would need to go spectacularly wrong for it to be a total wash like other recent MMOs have been. I figure they'll shift 2-3 million boxes and have about a 1 million subs in fairly short order. Where it goes from there will obviously depend on whether the game is any good or not. "
Yeah, I agree. And after another year they will fall below 1 million. And that's not what I would call success. Sure, Star Wars and BioWare brands will do a lot, but it's not everything.
@Scooper: I want sci-fi MMOs (or games in general) too, I'm sick of all those trolls, elfs and dwarfes. Too much of that already.
I though 1up has already been dismissed as a good source of info on new/upcoming games?
First of all, this game isn't going directly after WoW players. I mean sure, that's part of the target audience, but certainly not all of it. This game is also going after the people who may still play SWG, or EVE. This game is going after the people who have played the KOTORs and MEs but never really got into an MMO. And this game is going after the WoW players who are tired of WoW and want something new.
I can tell you why Tabula Rasa failed - and there are several reasons. First, the game wasn't anywhere near complete upon release. I know we hear that about a lot of games, but when you go into a zone, and there's nothing there to kill, no quests to do, etc... even though it seems like there should be.... Also, the implementation of some of the ideas wasn't that great. I liked how they did character progression, but something about the trees was just all wrong. Also, advertising. They didn't have any. Also, money. They didn't have enough.
Face it folks, EA/Bioware is the only conglomerate that can come close to competing with BlizzActivision.
I love Star Wars and I love Bioware - but for some reason my interest is still "M'eh".
I have a funny feeling that despite the blurbs and bullet points being throw around by the EA/Bioware marketing/PR departments, this will end up being just another WoW clone (Star Wars flavoured).
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