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TheKeyboardDemon

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My PC Build

Does anyone remember Trigger from Only Fools and Horses?

I was thinking about that scene where Trigger talks about his broom, the one where he says he has had the same broom  for a real long time but he has had to change the head and handle many times, but still uses the original screw!

That’s how it is for my PC, this case(ATX clone based on an Antec design) has been home to at least 4 motherboards ranging from  Abit, Asus, Gigabyte and MSI models. I’ve had Athlon XP processors including Palomino cores, Thorton and my last 32 bit CPU was the XP3200+ Barton cores. This alone makes me sound like 1 of those AMD fanboys, only I’m not, well not really. I started off with an AMD system, it was cheaper to build this way at the time, it wasn’t long before I wanted to upgrade the PC, so I got a bigger processor as this helped overcome a bottleneck, creating another bottleneck in the process. After a few motherboard, CPU and GPU changes I ended up with the XP3200+, running a BFG GeForce 6600GT(OC) with 128mb (I still remember when that was a lot of dedicated graphics memory!).

My first 64 bit PC was a ready built computer, an HP Media Centre m7775 (Core 2 Duo E6600 - 2.4 GHz, 2GB DDR2, Radeon X1650 SE, 320GB Internal HDD 1 + 320GB Personal Media Drive) which came with a warranty that I ended up invalidating when I decided that the graphics card was just too weedy for my games, and I ended up replacing this with an nVidia BFG 8800GT (overclocked to 675mhz).

When my nephew decided to build a new PC he had a motherboard (Asus M3N78 SE) left over, along with CPU, ram and GPU and looking at the specs of his motherboard in comparison to mine I could see it had more potential than mine, as I was already running the most power CPU the motherboard could handle. He let me have those components which went in to my old case (the Antec clone) along with my 8800GT, this AM2+ motherboard had a Dual Core Athlon XII running at 3.2 ghz and the motherboard had support for 4 and 6 core CPUs. This was running great until Need for Speed: World was released and I found that my computer was not powerful enough to run it.

I think what I should have done here is change my motherboard, instead I bought the most powerful CPU my motherboard can handle, an AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition, which was great until I fried my GPU. At the time I thought that this was because I now had hardware that could was pushing my GPU harder than it could handle, however   HitmanAgent47’s explanation makes a lot more sense, ie. it’s down to a design flaw that leads to overheating if the thermal paste is not renewed. This led me to buy a new GPU when I really wanted a new mobo, I got an Asus ATi Radeon 5770 CuCore for £91 when the best price even on eBay was about £150ish. This was good, but now my 800mhz FSB was getting to be a pain so I bought a new motherboard, Asus (again... w00t) M4A89GTD Pro for £109 on eBay (I sold 12 Wii games to raise the money) and put this together adding a new Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro Rev 2 HSF to replace the stock heatsink.
 
As I don't really have any decent benchmarking software, here are some stats to show what I was getting before with the M3N78 SE, then with M4A89GTD Pro using the 4290 OBG and finally the N4A89GTD Pro with the 5770 (all FPS ratings were with default quality settings running at 1920x1080 on a 23" monitor). This build also has 4gb DDR3 running at 1333 and two Seagate 1tb drives running as a striped array. 


No Caption Provided

After installing Windows 7 (64 bit) and a handful of games I went and found some of my older software including GTA IV which was quite hopeless on my HP and I never brother trying it on the AM2+ setup, but I now get between 45 and 55fps on the new build, I now get about 55 to 60fps on Alien Vs Predator on the new PC when I used to  get about 35 to 40fps on the AM2+ so some good results, I think.
 
Lessons I learnt, firstly I picked my motherboard because I thought that the on-board graphics (OBG) working in Hybrid Crossfire would give me a graphical performance boost, only I didn't understand how this works quite properly, it was only after I put the PC together that I found out that the OBG needs be equal to or greater than the discrete card that's used, otherwise it won't work. Plus the HDDs I used are older Sata 3gbs drives, to see the best benefit from raid I should have bought new ones rather than strip my NAS unit of its drives to put in my PC, but finance was tight and I still have another 1tb NAS drive, with a further 500gb NAS storage on standby that's ready to connect to my router as and when I want/need it.
 
Possible future plans include adding: 
  • 4 x 500gb WD Black or Blue edition drives(64mb cache)
  • A second 5770 to use in a crossfire
  • A new ATX Case (I like the Cooler Master HAF 912 for the excellent cable management or 1  with a clear side, black interior and good cable management so I can stick some cathodes inside it)
  • A 5.25 panel on the front with temp monitors, card readers and USB ports
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TheKeyboardDemon

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Edited By TheKeyboardDemon

Does anyone remember Trigger from Only Fools and Horses?

I was thinking about that scene where Trigger talks about his broom, the one where he says he has had the same broom  for a real long time but he has had to change the head and handle many times, but still uses the original screw!

That’s how it is for my PC, this case(ATX clone based on an Antec design) has been home to at least 4 motherboards ranging from  Abit, Asus, Gigabyte and MSI models. I’ve had Athlon XP processors including Palomino cores, Thorton and my last 32 bit CPU was the XP3200+ Barton cores. This alone makes me sound like 1 of those AMD fanboys, only I’m not, well not really. I started off with an AMD system, it was cheaper to build this way at the time, it wasn’t long before I wanted to upgrade the PC, so I got a bigger processor as this helped overcome a bottleneck, creating another bottleneck in the process. After a few motherboard, CPU and GPU changes I ended up with the XP3200+, running a BFG GeForce 6600GT(OC) with 128mb (I still remember when that was a lot of dedicated graphics memory!).

My first 64 bit PC was a ready built computer, an HP Media Centre m7775 (Core 2 Duo E6600 - 2.4 GHz, 2GB DDR2, Radeon X1650 SE, 320GB Internal HDD 1 + 320GB Personal Media Drive) which came with a warranty that I ended up invalidating when I decided that the graphics card was just too weedy for my games, and I ended up replacing this with an nVidia BFG 8800GT (overclocked to 675mhz).

When my nephew decided to build a new PC he had a motherboard (Asus M3N78 SE) left over, along with CPU, ram and GPU and looking at the specs of his motherboard in comparison to mine I could see it had more potential than mine, as I was already running the most power CPU the motherboard could handle. He let me have those components which went in to my old case (the Antec clone) along with my 8800GT, this AM2+ motherboard had a Dual Core Athlon XII running at 3.2 ghz and the motherboard had support for 4 and 6 core CPUs. This was running great until Need for Speed: World was released and I found that my computer was not powerful enough to run it.

I think what I should have done here is change my motherboard, instead I bought the most powerful CPU my motherboard can handle, an AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition, which was great until I fried my GPU. At the time I thought that this was because I now had hardware that could was pushing my GPU harder than it could handle, however   HitmanAgent47’s explanation makes a lot more sense, ie. it’s down to a design flaw that leads to overheating if the thermal paste is not renewed. This led me to buy a new GPU when I really wanted a new mobo, I got an Asus ATi Radeon 5770 CuCore for £91 when the best price even on eBay was about £150ish. This was good, but now my 800mhz FSB was getting to be a pain so I bought a new motherboard, Asus (again... w00t) M4A89GTD Pro for £109 on eBay (I sold 12 Wii games to raise the money) and put this together adding a new Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro Rev 2 HSF to replace the stock heatsink.
 
As I don't really have any decent benchmarking software, here are some stats to show what I was getting before with the M3N78 SE, then with M4A89GTD Pro using the 4290 OBG and finally the N4A89GTD Pro with the 5770 (all FPS ratings were with default quality settings running at 1920x1080 on a 23" monitor). This build also has 4gb DDR3 running at 1333 and two Seagate 1tb drives running as a striped array. 


No Caption Provided

After installing Windows 7 (64 bit) and a handful of games I went and found some of my older software including GTA IV which was quite hopeless on my HP and I never brother trying it on the AM2+ setup, but I now get between 45 and 55fps on the new build, I now get about 55 to 60fps on Alien Vs Predator on the new PC when I used to  get about 35 to 40fps on the AM2+ so some good results, I think.
 
Lessons I learnt, firstly I picked my motherboard because I thought that the on-board graphics (OBG) working in Hybrid Crossfire would give me a graphical performance boost, only I didn't understand how this works quite properly, it was only after I put the PC together that I found out that the OBG needs be equal to or greater than the discrete card that's used, otherwise it won't work. Plus the HDDs I used are older Sata 3gbs drives, to see the best benefit from raid I should have bought new ones rather than strip my NAS unit of its drives to put in my PC, but finance was tight and I still have another 1tb NAS drive, with a further 500gb NAS storage on standby that's ready to connect to my router as and when I want/need it.
 
Possible future plans include adding: 
  • 4 x 500gb WD Black or Blue edition drives(64mb cache)
  • A second 5770 to use in a crossfire
  • A new ATX Case (I like the Cooler Master HAF 912 for the excellent cable management or 1  with a clear side, black interior and good cable management so I can stick some cathodes inside it)
  • A 5.25 panel on the front with temp monitors, card readers and USB ports
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TheKeyboardDemon

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Edited By TheKeyboardDemon
@billnyethesciencepie said:
" an e6600? lolbadcpu "
Was it really that bad? I still have that computer, my daughter uses it, and she seems happy with it, but she is only 7.
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SeriouslyNow

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Edited By SeriouslyNow
@billnyethesciencepie said:
" an e6600? lolbadcpu "
Huh?  It was the flagship Core2Duo when that series launched.  It wasn't until the second revision of that CPU with the e6750 (FSB increase supporting faster DDR2 RAM) almost a year that it was beaten.
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Geno

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Edited By Geno

 @TheKeyboardDemon said:

 HitmanAgent47’s explanation makes a lot more sense, ie. it’s down to a design flaw that leads to overheating if the thermal paste is not renewed.

   

There's nothing wrong with the 8800GT's design; yes it ran hot (so did the rest of G80) but there's no issue of needing to replace thermal paste on a regular basis. Nvidia cards can handle at least 105C and the 8800GT tops out at 90C in Furmark (and much less while gaming). The GTX 480 has the same max temp specification and it runs even hotter on average. Even at 105C, such cards have been proven to work fine. In addition, most folders (folding is an activity that involves running your computer at 100% load 24/7 so overheating is most definitely a concern) will still recommend the 8800GT if you can get it for a good price.   
 
If any manufacturer released a card that required widespread end-user maintenance of thermal paste, that company would be going bankrupt from customer service demands and lawsuits as 90% of the end-users wouldn't know how. Absolutely ridiculous explanation.  

Most likely you just ran into a problem that was a combination of using an overclocked 3 year old card and some bad luck. 
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TheKeyboardDemon

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Edited By TheKeyboardDemon
@Geno: You may well be right, I'm just repeating an explanation that makes sense based on the replies I got on this post, it was not just HitmanAgent47 that experienced issues some others also had similar stories to tell.
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SeriouslyNow

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Edited By SeriouslyNow

It's not a design flaw.  PC components need adequate airflow and maintenance.  Your PC probably lacked the former and you likely didn't do much of the latter.  I've got NV hardware stretching back to the Geforce 256 which still runs as good as the day it was purchased.  The reason why oven fix videos exist is because people mistreat their hardware and then are shown how to fix it from people who have the necessary experience and expertise to do so.

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TheKeyboardDemon

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Edited By TheKeyboardDemon

I didn't know there was much mainenance required, other than occaiossionally cleaning out the dust with a can of air.
 
As for airflow, I have 2 x 80mm at the front, 1 x 120mm at the back and 120mm extracting air into the psu and this blows out the back of the psu with an 80mm fan. Which I thought would be adequate. I'm hoping to change this when I get a new case to give me a 120mm intakes at the front and side and exhausts out the back and top plus psu fans which will be dedicated for psu as this will be mounted at the bottom of the case.

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HitmanAgent47

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Edited By HitmanAgent47

Whatever my 9800GTX's thermal paste dried up after many years and I replaced a heatsink and new thermal paste. It's a common error ppl gets when their nvidia driver said it stopped working, hundreds of ppl on google has that error. I guess I speak from experience, not misconceptions or lack of experience interpretating things from existing information as facts. Then again I done alot of heavy overclocking before I replaced the heatsink. I couldn't even run my card for a few seconds without that error. A videocard should last a few years easily if you don't overclock and most of us replace our gpus before any problems surface. Some old gpus last because it's not being used often anymore for games, I play pc games all day before with a very high overclock, (not talking about a measily overclock and nearly damaging a gpu when I try to copy the settings from somewhere else type of overclocking) The main difference is my 9800GTX with a new heatsink still works now and before I can't even use it for a few seconds, so i'm doing something right.
 
Most hd4850 has problems too with overheating and over time it sort of died and has the same error. I know a few ppl elsewhere with such a problem. Most ppl just buys a new card because the waranty is expired and they are happy with their new card, they don't really go and ask for an RMA request when their waranty is expired.
 
Here is the same error ppl has and it won't stop happening over and over, my theory and experience shows something has dried up or isn't working. I don't mean getting this error occassionally, rather all the time. I don't deal in misconceptions and they will never be able to fix their problems.

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&biw=1916&bih=895&q=nvidia+drivers+stopped+responding+and+has+recovered&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=2082d1a66b73b8c0