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ultimatepunchrod

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Why the New Dante is Just Fine


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwIFRl1Fo-U

Watch that first if you haven't seen it. Otherwise what follows will make no sense.





When the new Devil May Cry game was announced at the 2010 Tokyo Game Show, the new Dante was also revealed, and of course, the internet user backlash was quick and full of hate. I was pretty put out by the idea of a reboot instead of a direct sequel, but after watching the trailer a few more times, I got excited, and when I saw the comments of pure hate, I decided to come up with some reasons to give it a chance.



 
 
1. The Tone Works
If you look at all the Devil May Cry games --accept for 2 because that one didn’t match up and is discounted by more than a few fans—the tone is that of Dante being a tough, trash talking, quick witted and all around badass character. The creators instilled those characteristics throughout each game. Even in 2 where Dante was almost lifeless, the player still knew that he was tough because he could slice through enemies with ease (maybe a little too much ease, but still). 
 
The new Dante looks to be absolutely no different. Regardless of whether you think Dante should be smoking or not, he still looks like he kicks as much demon butt as ever and he’s still doing it with style. Look at the trailer again; whenever Dante starts fighting he burns one demon he has in a headlock with a cigarette, then rushes head first into a group of these monsters and uses his pistols at close range. That sounds like the Dante that everyone knows and loves right? In other words, this Dante isn’t emo; this Dante isn’t a Twilight character because those two things are defined by your actions not your haircut, and his actions seem pretty brutal here.




If this is emo: 




 Then so is this by definition:




The new music works as well. Now, this is obviously a matter of preference. The music in the first 4 games fit well with the gothic setting, but not with Dante’s attitude. “Taste the blood; taste your fate; swallow your pride with your hate.”  This does not personify Dante’s Devil may care attitude in the least. The old music was too brooding; it worked, but only just and sort of became a joke by the 4 game. Now the new music seems to go along perfectly with Dante’s attitude and the setting. It’s fast paced; it’s hard; and it’s cool.




2. This Fits Perfectly With References to Dante’s Past
Dante never goes into detail about his past. No one does. There’s a vague reference in the 3 game about he and Vergil meeting a year before the events of that game, but that’s it. In the 3 game, it is implied heavily implied that Dante is reluctant of the demon powers he has inherited from his father, Sparda and that Vergil wants as much as he can have. With that in mind, it makes sense that Dante would be an extremely troubled teen. At this point in his life we have no idea if his mother has been killed or if Vergil has turned (for lack of a better phrase) to the dark side. If these two things have happened, it seems pretty clear that Dante would be angry and rebellious. His parents are MIA and his brother is evil. This fits into a possible explanation for his white patch: he wants to reject the demon side of himself and dyes his hair to cover it up (that’s an early assumption, so it’s probably incorrect). Also, people seem upset that he’s a smoker in this depiction, and no matter how he felt about smoking once he was an adult, as a teen, he probably cares a lot less about his body (as most teens do). Besides smoking, how does he take all this aggression he has out? By killing demons of course! He’s not bottling it all up like an “emo” kid would do; he’s doing what Dante does, and that means killing a lot of demons with style. Now, once he got most of this aggression out of his system he could easily turn into the more sarcastic and smart mouthed demon hunter of DMC 3. All-in-all this fits Dante’s persona much better than most people seem to think it does.


This DOES make sense:




3. Everything is Still in Place
What does every DMC fan remember about the iconic and amazing DMC series? White hair, Ebony and Ivory, big swords (named Rebellion, Force Edge, Red Queen, and Yamato), plenty of creepy demons to kill, and an awesome front man that’s what. And guess what? They’re all still here. 


The white hair is hard to spot, but it’s in this picture and every subsequent screenshot (I promise):



 (See it's on top of his head, I'm not making it up)




The twin pistols:

(They're Even Black and White Here)




The Big Sword and a decent shot of the new creepy demons:

(Well here it;s a scythe, but I mention the weapon changing a little later.)




And the tough character:

 (Yeah, I know this is polarizing)


In other words, this is still your Devil May Cry; it’s just been given a visual overhaul and not even a huge one. The refinements are just to make Dante look younger; that’s all. 


4. Combat Looks Promising
Take a look at some of the action from the trailer; ignore the look of Dante; just focus on the action.
Dante is shooting demons at close range; this isn’t new to the series which should make the naysayers happy. Something that is new is the melee system. Dante’s new “sword” is changing from pole arm, to sword, to a some kind of chain weapon watch at 1:22; see how it looks like a sword and then changes to be the chain weapon? This would make sense as Ninja Theory’s Heavenly Sword employed this kind of system. Also, he’s using these different forms of the weapon to tear up the environment pretty hard. This is exciting. It could make the action even more brutal than it’s ever been. 


Speaking of Heavenly Sword, Ninja Theory can do action quite adequately. The overlooked and under appreciated (by gamers) debut title from Ninja Theory shows how capable the team is at making action very fun and engaging. With multiple combo options and different types of weapon variations for each type of enemy that comes, they really made something special, especially considering that it was their first title (as Ninja Theory). We’ll have to see how Enslaved: Odyssey to the West shapes up, but they have my confidence.



 (So I hear this was a pretty good debut)


5. It’s Really Way too Early to Tell
Despite all these reasons I’ve come up with here (and the various hate comments that have popped up), the fact is that it’s just too early. All of this hate and hope are based on a trailer for a game that is more than likely in extremely early stages of development. There’s not one frame of gameplay here; the trailer is less than two minutes long; and it’s all just speculation at this point. The whole thing is just that people are very attached to this series. Anything that Ninja Theory and Capcom could have put out at this point (or any for that matter) would be met with criticism and hate, but it’s just too early to know if this game will be good, and isn’t that the whole point?
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Meowshi

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Edited By Meowshi

what baffles me is that people think dante's ORIGINAL design is something to be applauded and cherished. 
 
he looks fucking silly. 
 
like anime silly.

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Mono_Listo

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Edited By Mono_Listo

I really do not mean to impugn anyone's opinion, but Christ why is this a big deal? Flamboyant Japanese culture-charged video game protagonist version, or odd Western and equally androgynous version? Find something worthy of caring about.

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Oldirtybearon

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Edited By Oldirtybearon
@Mono_Listo said:
" I really do not mean to impugn anyone's opinion, but Christ why is this a big deal? Flamboyant Japanese culture-charged video game protagonist version, or odd Western and equally androgynous version? Find something worthy of caring about. "
The weeaboos are pissed that a character they like (who has very shallow and, quite frankly, retarded characterisation) is getting a makeover more befitting the current sociological climate of western culture. Devil May Cry was made during a time when Western games were almost exclusive to the PC, and as such Devil May Cry only reflected the current trending aesthetic of Japanese culture. Now that Japan's home console market is shrinking at a frightening rate (and has been over the past several years), studios like Capcom have become more and more dependent on Western sales. DMC 4 did not sell as well as it could have if it were a good game, nor half as well as it could have if it appealed to the Western aesthetic. 
 
That's really all it is, weeaboos getting pissy that another franchise they hold dear is evolving with the times.
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HitmanAgent47

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Edited By HitmanAgent47
@Scrawnto: 84% is devil may cry 4, anything less is a failure to me and a waste of resource.
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NoTicket

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Edited By NoTicket
@KingWilly

I think you are my hero. I agree with everything you said. But I still think they should redesign the character to look like someone who could actually do damage.

Also, as for outsourcing titles, companies that haven't made a smash game yet, and so on please refer to Rocksteady and Batman: Arkham Asylum.
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makari

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Edited By makari
@dudeglove said:
" @makari said:
" All I get from the replies to this post is that it's only OK when Japanese-designed characters look gay. "
Which is funny considering Ninja Theory is British-based. "
I think you missed my point...
 
It's an interesting case study, to be sure, when people will lash out at a western-designed effeminate male character while being perfectly fine with its Japanese-designed effeminate male counterpart.
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Oldirtybearon

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Edited By Oldirtybearon
@makari: @makari said:
" @dudeglove said:
" @makari said:
" All I get from the replies to this post is that it's only OK when Japanese-designed characters look gay. "
Which is funny considering Ninja Theory is British-based. "
I think you missed my point...  It's an interesting case study, to be sure, when people will lash out at a western-designed effeminate male character while being perfectly fine with its Japanese-designed effeminate male counterpart. "
The reason for this probably stems from the western version actually looking like a real person.
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ultimatepunchrod

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Edited By ultimatepunchrod
@HitmanAgent47 said:
" @Scrawnto: 84% is devil may cry 4, anything less is a failure to me and a waste of resource. "
so are you saying that anything less than an 84% is a bad game? i cant agree with that. i mean plenty of games that i love have been in the 70% range. and some that i really liked have been in the 60% range. besides if you look at the 1-10 rating scale, the real mediocre score by definition is a 5 because thats the middle. most people admittedly dont review like that and 7 becomes the "just good" score. since most reviewers are saying 7 is a good game, then i dont think that 84% is a good threshold; you're kind of robing yourself of a lot of good games.
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ShadowKing7

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Edited By ShadowKing7
@KingWilly said:
" @Mono_Listo said:
" I really do not mean to impugn anyone's opinion, but Christ why is this a big deal? Flamboyant Japanese culture-charged video game protagonist version, or odd Western and equally androgynous version? Find something worthy of caring about. "
The weeaboos are pissed that a character they like (who has very shallow and, quite frankly, retarded characterisation) is getting a makeover more befitting the current sociological climate of western culture. Devil May Cry was made during a time when Western games were almost exclusive to the PC, and as such Devil May Cry only reflected the current trending aesthetic of Japanese culture. Now that Japan's home console market is shrinking at a frightening rate (and has been over the past several years), studios like Capcom have become more and more dependent on Western sales. DMC 4 did not sell as well as it could have if it were a good game, nor half as well as it could have if it appealed to the Western aesthetic.  That's really all it is, weeaboos getting pissy that another franchise they hold dear is evolving with the times. "


Bullshit, that game sold over 2 million copies (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/02/20/devil-may-cry-4-hits-2-million-worldwide/), there's a link if you want proof. 
 
I just don't see why Capcom feels like this series needs a reboot to sell, DMC4 is a fine game and they already left an open ending in that game.  They could have just continued the story from that point, that's what's bugging me.
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ultimatepunchrod

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Edited By ultimatepunchrod
@Icemael said:
" @ultimatepunchrod said:
" and in general i really dont understand all the hate for Ninja Theory. Enslaved looks awesome and Heavenly Sword was a great game. it was a bit short, but it was extremely good. "
Have you played the demo? Poor framerate, jaggies everywhere, shitty camera (the combat camera is especially bad -- it makes Ninja Gaiden's seem like the most user-friendly in the world), overly long "platforming" sequences that consist of you press X a bunch of times, and a combat system that's shallow even by Western action game standards. "
no i havent played that demo, but i have played their finished game(heavenly sword) which was absolutely great. Not the best game ever, but it showed what they could do in terms of visuals and  gameplay. of course, thats pretty subjective; you either like a game, or you don't, but i really enjoyed HS and cant wait for enslaved.
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ultimatepunchrod

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Edited By ultimatepunchrod
@Axxol said:
" @ultimatepunchrod

 If you look at all the Devil May Cry games --accept for 2 because that one didn’t match up and is discounted by more than a few fans—the tone is that of Dante being a    

except???  Dante's new look is shitty. I don't care what excuses you come up with, he still looks like shit and no amount of writing will change anyone's mind. "
yeah sorry about that. good eye. haha.
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RVonE

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Edited By RVonE

Your "if this is emo, than this is too" trick doesn't work. 
 
This Dante looks like an emo douche that cuts himself instead of his enemies.
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MeierTheRed

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Edited By MeierTheRed

 Yeah quit changing video games, i hate changes, now excuse me while i go cry over it, like i did when they changed Cole from Infamous. Seriously some of you people are sad.

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shiftymagician

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Edited By shiftymagician

I think the design for the younger Dante is at the very most inoffensive to me, simply because Dante as a character was not interesting.  It was his actions that were character-defining, and his own personal traits do not carry.  Get another character to do the same crazy stunts with a proper back-story, and you have a superior character.
 
I will also do the proper thing that a lot of Giant Bombers here will likely do - wait and see for themselves via a Quick Look, Review and personal experience with the game to properly judge the character and the new direction.  Statistics can only give a calculated guess to a game's quality, but there never has been (and never will be) a sure fire way to quantify a singular value that could sum up every aspect of a game.  Not one score is 100% agreeable to everyone, and conclusive values have to be 100% agreeable to be considered a proper measuring value for anything.  Treating statistics as something other than a tool to understand trends and take better calculated guesses is just foolish.  Experience and observation of the product itself is the only sure way to properly see if you like a game or not.
 
The Devil May Cry license could have easily been given to worse hands.  Also, the formula is getting stale, and it needed a reboot.  I will be skeptical to see if this take will work out in Ninja Theory's favour.  I wish them all the best of luck though.

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Synthballs

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Edited By Synthballs

I think it looks horrid. I'll wait for gameplay but so far I feel Sparda must be rolling in his demonic grave. 
 

 Son. I am disappoint. 
 Son. I am disappoint. 
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optimusprime223

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Edited By optimusprime223

guys, it is still way to early to make any kind of judgement. Remember this is supposed to be a reboot, so Dante may not look the same but is it really that big of an issue? Dante was cool due to his attitude, his big swords and his stylish fighting style.  
 
If they can keep that then this game will be awesome. Heavenly Sword was one of the most cinematic games I ever played. Sure, it had it's problems, but what game doesn't. All I am saying here is wait to play it, if the gameplay is up to scratch, and they haven't made Dante a complete pussy then I reckon it will be pretty dam cool, but again it is just too early. roll on 2011 to see what DMC will bring.  
 
Also Devil May Cry 2 should have been called Devil Never Cry, it's what he changed his agency to at the end of the first one! lol
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KaosAngel

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Edited By KaosAngel
@optimusprime223 said:
"  Also Devil May Cry 2 should have been called Devil Never Cry, it's what he changed his agency to at the end of the first one! lol "
DMC2 (oh god, DOES NOT EXIST), takes place after DMC4...Dante got too lazy and put back the old sign due to not getting as many customers.
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optimusprime223

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Edited By optimusprime223

@Kaosangel 
 
good explanation...
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zeforgotten

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Edited By zeforgotten
@pornstorestiffi said:
"  Yeah quit changing video games, i hate changes, now excuse me while i go cry over it, like i did when they changed Cole from Infamous. Seriously some of you people are sad. "
I agree with this. 
But then again, crying girls are fun 
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Rxanadu

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Edited By Rxanadu
@ultimatepunchrod: You know what: I'll take your side in this argument.  The white spot of hair at the top of his head makes sense if this takes place prior DMC3; it would also show how Dante is still not a full form yet.  
 
However, this means the developers will have to do away with one defining game mechanic: the Devil Trigger; which he doesn't get until after his fight with Virgil in part 3.  This would also explain the shape-shifting Devil Arm he now weilds.  I actually want to see how Ninja Theory ties in these things: how Dante's hair changes to pure white; why he doesn't have Rebellion; how he got the new DA and; when he does get he father's heirloom. 
 
I also think they should explore Virgil's origins as well since we saw so little of him in DMC3.  They probably wouldn't meet as, from what I remember, Dante and Virgil hadn't met for years since part 3.
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deactivated-5a1d45de5ef23

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No, just no
 
The old Dante was Goth, this kid is a chav emo, and being generally "corporate" badass. He is trying way too hard.
 
Also the fact they changed the voice actor. Seriously, Reuben Langdon is the best dante, and he is the one most people connect with the word dante. But now they have some random dude doing a deep and "broding" voice".
 
Also the fact that he smokes. Dante said outright he wont smoke, because it destroys the body, and he hates it. Now the fact that this kid smokes, just shows their blantant ignorance regarding the character. I mean, he just reecks of trying too hard. "im so badass, look im smoking, AND ENJOYING IT, IM SO BADASS KIDS!! HUH??"
 
Also his facial structure is way off. 
 
The fact that he doesnt have rebellion with him, since its his mainsword and the first one he got? The new sword just looks like "aw shit, people really enjoyed neros devilarm in DMC4, LETS HAVE THAT!"
 
I have no problem with him being angry as a teen, as that is explained in the novels. But dont let that be all of his character.
 
Also the fact that its Ninja Theory who are developing the game, is just the icing on the cake(and the fact the lead producer looks like him, waaaay too much). If you ever played Heavenly sword, you would know that these guys are not qualified for making a DMC game. Perhaps a God of War game, but not a DMC game. Seriously.
 
I just hope that DMC3 Dante in MVS3 will show people how the real Dante should behave and look like, and hopefully make Capcom realize that they should stop outsourcing games they are way better off making themselves.

Also, Limbo city.....Really?
 
@ultimatepunchrod:
 
 "The new music works as well. Now, this is obviously a matter of preference. The music in the first 4 games fit well with the gothic setting, but not with Dante’s attitude. “Taste the blood; taste your fate; swallow your pride with your hate.”  This does not personify Dante’s Devil may care attitude in the least. The old music was too brooding; it worked, but only just and sort of became a joke by the 4 game. Now the new music seems to go along perfectly with Dante’s attitude and the setting. It’s fast paced; it’s hard; and it’s cool."
 
.....You only played the third, ha?
 
Became a joke. Seriously, did you even understand what you were playing???

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AlphaZro

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Edited By AlphaZro

I think the big problem every DMC fan has with the redesign is the fact that 
   A.) The already had a character in place to take the series after 4 in Nero, B.) the redesign of the character is striking in a weird way cause this guy doesn't have the white hair nor does he have the muscles Dante has, Dante has always looked like he was carved out of marble but didn't work out. and the most important thing C.) is that this new Dante is emo when Dante has never been emo, I mean he does show emotions (what happened at the end of three for example) but not to this degree but maybe it'll be awesome, maybe the game will knock all of us on our asses. Maybe Dante's hair turns white (or he stops dying it) at the end or something.  
 
But the question I have is this why the hell did we need a reboot when what we really needed was a game set after 2 resolving the whole "Dante in hell" asinine ending of 2 
 
P.S. is Punk Rock still considered Rebellious by today's standards?

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Canberra

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Edited By Canberra
Abdominals.  
Where are they now? :(
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Carac

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Edited By Carac

Over the years, I have thoroughly enjoyed the DMC series.  Loved DMC1, disappointed with DMC2, redeemed by DMC3.  When the announcement trailer for DMC4 showed a new protagonist and they made it clear it wasn't Dante, but was somehow related, I was intrigued.  It made a great first impression and at the end of the trailer I was left wanting to play DMC4.


 


Fast forward to present day, I see the DmC trailer and my first impression is.............


I want to know what's going on with the existing story and universe, what's going on with Sparda, Virgil, etc.  The series had plateaued, was not in decline, and the last entry (DMC4) sold over 2 million copies...why reboot a good thing?  All I needed was a DMC5 that continues the story...which I guess they could still do once this is over.  


In all seriousness, I have cancelled my Enslaved Preorder, and will not be purchasing DmC.  The loudest voice to Capcom is not a message board post, it's the sound of my wallet staying closed and in my pocket when DmC is released.  Not solely because of the new "Dante,"  but more so that I am not going to support a move away from the story and character I was invested in.  The Devil May Cry series did not need a reboot and the prospect of one does not interest me in the slightest.

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ryanwho

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Edited By ryanwho

Just on principle, the idea of a company head coming in and modeling a pre-existing popular character after himself leaves such a bad taste in my mouth that I'll have to shit on this every chance I get and hope Capcom never works with Ninja Theory again.

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hatking

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Edited By hatking

Yeah, the skeptics are right, they did a fucking brilliant job with DMC4. 
 
I'm actually happy to see another dev get a shot at an interesting franchise before Capcom runs it into the ground.
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sodiumCyclops

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Edited By sodiumCyclops

Looks fine to me.

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High_Nunez

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Edited By High_Nunez

Haha the new Dante looks laughably terrible.