Vashyron

The showing I went to, there was a woman sobbing at the end of the movie, her and the guy she was with didn't even stay for the after credits scene. The group I went with, we all went and got ice cream to just sort of feel better after the ending. That ending has some punch if you are invested in the characters or you watch your favorite character just turn to ash. Like, I grew up with comics and know that most, if not all, those characters are coming back. Even still, like it still got to me watching Stark trying to comfort Peter as he was turning to ash. And then you go into the credits with some really somber music and at the end of it all, you see "Thanos will return." Not "The Avengers will return." Thanos. I'll give them their due. They actually went for it and didn't pull some cheesy bullshit of showing something hinting at the characters coming back or a character saying "I think I know how to get them back." No, they're gone, at least for now. I think it was a smart move.

Been playing Blood Bowl 2 and Total War: Warhammer as the orcs because I need to fight stuff since my Holiday got shit on. Orcs fight stuff real good.

Wha? Kylo kills Snoke and becomes Supreme Leader of the First Order, and seems to have fully embraced the Dark Side (btw a huge win) Rey started down the path of the Jedi, tried to save Kylo but failed as it was a trap by Snoke and now she has no Master to return to and only the Books to guide her way. Poe learned to stop being a reckless shit that gets people killed. Finn did stuff? His character probably has the most issues in this movie, unfortunately. However, to say that characters didn't grow or the narrative didn't move is kind of silly. The thing about failure is that it happens. I mean, look at Empire Strikes Back. The good guys get the shit beaten out of them. Luke's Universe is shattered by Vader and Han gets frozen in carbonite and taken to Jabba, not to mention the Rebels starting that movie by getting kicked off of Hoth. Like, the good guys did not win in that movie and it is VERY BELOVED. So, to label this movie sucking because it's about failure is kind of silly.

Along with that, EVERYONE expected Rey's parents to be somebody. Fan theories where going nuts trying to relate her to the Skywalkers in some way (either through Han and Leia or through Vader or Luke), and if it wasn't the Skywalkers, it was Palpatine. So, to find out that her parents are nobodies is, actually, kind of perfect. How much of a let down is that? Probably a lot and I think that is what people are having an issue with. They expected it to be something and it was nothing, so they are upset. But take a second and think about how Rey feels. She has been wondering about her parents and why they left her. Then she finds out she has a rather strong power and the first thought, I'm sure, that went through her head is "My parents were probably pretty powerful." And much like the audience, she is probably trying to figure out if she is related to one of the legends she's heard so much about. And then, to be forced to face the truth, that her parents are nothing. Degenerate gamblers (or whatever) that sold her and are dead; and to have that followed by an asshole telling her she is nothing too. On some levels, she is probably fairly gutted by that, but she does the heroic thing and pulls her shit together so she can save her friends and further serves to show that it doesn't matter what came before, it matters where we are going. Should people lose their shit over it? No, but honestly, no one was going to lose their shit no matter who her parents were. People were always going to be either elated or pissed about it, since you always knew the reveal was coming. The only reason why it worked in Empire is because you NEVER SAW IT COMING. There was no question to Luke's parentage. As far as Luke and the audience knew, his father was dead and killed by Vader. Luke probably really hated Vader, for killing Obi-Wan and his father. There was ZERO indication that Vader was Luke's father, which is why everyone (including Luke) lost their shit. Having Rey's parents be a mystery from the get go means you absolutely can not have a surprise reveal, because you know that is a plot point that HAS to be resolved.

Anytime Attack of the Clones is not at the bottom of someone's list, I feel my eyes rolling into the back of my head.

This would also be my list.

@lifejuice: I honestly didn't see the thing about Snoke being a twist. When it happened, I was very unsurprised as that whole scene up to that point is very reminiscent of Return of the Jedi. That isn't to say that I thought it was bad, I'm very happy it did. Just wasn't shocked by it, is all.

@hassun: True, though I guess the Empire/First Order just love their big-planet-destroying-toys.

@ares42: @hassun: Maybe the ships can't be remotely piloted to do that? Also, it is possible that smaller ships won't do the same amount damage, you'd need something like a cruiser to do that much damage and since money exists, I can't imagine that it would be cheap to do that when it seems like the Rebellion is kinda just scraping by.

@theht: Ah, that's right. I might have missed that about Rey or forgot with all the thoughts about TLJ swimming in my brain. It is something that I really like about it though.That she came from nothing.

That makes sense about Poe and I know that he is "Leia's favorite" and all, the problem is that I just don't feel like it is earned, I guess? He is a lot less reckless at the end of the film and it seems his lesson has been the learned, but it COMPLETELY MUTES OUT EVERYTHING FINN WORKED FOR, which is a narrative shithole. I mean, Finn's plot was the weak part of the movie and it literally payed off 0%. I just feel like Poe is a problematic character, from a narrative standpoint. I think Finn was great in the first movie, but I feel like they are just trying to keep him busy when the story of the movie has nothing to do with him at all.

The biggest problem I have with the movie generally has to do with Poe and that also relates to TFA as well. So many people I know are like "I love Poe!" and I sort of see why, but at the same time, I feel like he doesn't do anything at all. I mean, the only thing he has going for him is a badass pilot and in TLJ, we also see that he is extremely reckless. I don't mind him being reckless, but he does almost nothing throughout the entire movie except be slapped by Leia. I feel like they don't really know what to do with Poe, which is a shame. He's got moxy and attitude, but that's it. I feel like he should have gone with Finn to find the codebreaker and have that be a buddy cop sort of adventure, since they are basically BFFs. I think that would have been far more interesting than the stuff with Rose, not that I hate her. It was just one more character that we are being asked to invest in, maybe.

Also, in regards to Snoke...I don't understand the complaint people have with not knowing anything about him before getting offed. If you were like me and only watched the Original Trilogy, prior to the Prequels, and didn't get involved in the Extended Universe, how much do you know about Palpatine before he shows up in RotJ? The movies give you nothing other than he seduced Vader to join the Dark Side and is the Emperor. And in regards to being chumped, Palpatine gets thrown down a cylindrical tube by Vader...so...yeah. Like how much explanation do you need about a character who, much like Palpatine in the Original Trilogy, doesn't REALLY matter?

The biggest thing that stuck with me in that movie was Kylo's line of "Kill the past" because I feel like the movie is basically saying that. The past doesn't matter, it's about moving further. I may be off the deep end about that and that's fine, but I just noticed so many homages to the Original Trilogy that were then twisted in ways that makes it harder to retread those same lines in the next movie. Kylo (who is a proxy for Vader) killed Snoke (who is a proxy for Palpatine) and didn't turn good. He, instead, said "fuck it, I'm in charge now" which is awesome. Rey (who is a proxy for Luke) has no living person to train her to be a Jedi AND FAILED TO REDEEM VA...KYLO. Sure, Luke will probably show up as a Force Ghost in the next movie, but I really hope he doesn't or at least doesn't show up more than once. I would like to see Rey be forced to figure it out on her own, because she sort of has been doing that. We were led to believe her parents were important, but nope. They were nobodies, if Kylo is to be believed. And that's fine BECAUSE THE PAST DOESN'T MATTER. That's where Anakin came from, nothing. Now, the stuff with Luke (who is a much more conflicted proxy for Obi-Wan) does give his life up to save the Resistance, much like in ANH, but he isn't killed by Kylo. He moves on to the next horizon and I actually have some thoughts about Luke, his exile, and Yoda showing up, but I didn't quite catch all of that, so I'm going to save that until I watch it again because I think that scene is interesting and worth it's own diatribe.

It is basically like ESB with RotJ's ending of the Emperor being dead, but now Vader is in charge and he's fucking pissed.

So, those are my insane musings about the movie. I also am firmly entrenched in the idea that Star Wars is sci-fi Dark Souls, thematically.

What the hell kind of forum thread did I stumble into?