00:00:00

The Giant Beastcast: Episode 157

May. 25th 2018

It's time to talk about Detroit: Become Human. It's also time to talk Horizon Zero Dawn. There's also some time left to talk about God of War, Bloodstained, Battlefield V, and Black Ops 4. It is not time to talk about a PlayStation 5, Newcomb's Problem, or to do 20 questions with Dan... but we do it anyway.

Episode Notes:

We talk about Detroit: Become Human from around 00:12:09 - 00:39:12 and some of the story elements in it if you are looking to avoid possible minor spoilers.

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The Giant Beastcast

5 Seasons • 206 Episodes

The Giant Bomb East team gathers to talk about the week in video games, their lives, and basically anything that interests them. All from New York City!

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Mus

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Mus • 

Ahh yeah.

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fluffynutkicker

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Y2Ken

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Y2Ken • 

Got that Friday feeling again...

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doki333

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doki333 • 

new game: david cage as godzilla with two hams for hands

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bigwinnerx

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Edited By bigwinnerx • 

Here's the Killzone thing w/ Vinny's amazing drawings.

Loading Video...

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Igrac

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Igrac • 

Does anyone know if the Beastcast will ever go video, too?

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Gooni

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Gooni • 

Did... did Abby hate GOW ending because Freya was a bad mother?

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Dweep • 

The opening minutes are the golden standard for podcasting.

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Dweep

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Dweep • 

The opening minutes are the golden standard for podcasting.

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villainfb43

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I really enjoyed the 20 questions bit and am also happy Abby pushed to get the answer on the show. Good job everyone!

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AwkwardLoser

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Vinny asked if Gorillaz is still a band, technically they never were it’s just Damon Albarn most known for Blur and I think Pulp with some contributions by Del the Funky Homosapien (he raps on some songs) with art by duder from Tank Girl. Albarn does all the music from the roota to the toota akin to Dave Grohl on the 1st Foo Figthers albums with DtFH rapping on a few tracks. I know it’s splitting hairs but still.

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mason_pat

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Edited By mason_pat • 
@gooni said:

Did... did Abby hate GOW ending because Freya was a bad mother?

God of War end spoilers below:

Waypoint and Kotaku both have articles about this, how it basically sucks to be a mom/woman in the game, and I'm guessing that's a large part of her/their dislike of it. The ending is also abrupt, especially if you're thinking you'll end up fighting Thor and Odin and don't realize it's a trilogy. The story arc is focused around Baldur and the mothers ashes, it's easy to lose sight of the smaller scope with all this crazy shit happening around you.

I'm not a mythology buff, but my understanding is that a lot of the relationships are just taken from Norse/Greek mythology... Freya is overprotective of her son, and her sons death signals the beginning of Ragnarok. Seeing as the game is very concerned with Ragnarok and such, it makes sense that Baldur and Freya are the way they are, IMO. If Freya were flippant about her son dying, it would make even less sense and make her kind of boring and overly rational for a woman who would rather her son hate and kill her than see him come to harm, despite being a bit of an asshole.

Waypoint's article ends with "Only fathers can remain." since Faye is dead, though I'm not sure how that pertains to Freya. I also don't understand why only fathers can remain, because the prophecy is that Atreus may end up killing Kratos, and sons have a history of killing their fathers.

That said, this is only speculation. It's fine to not like a game for whatever reason, and I'm guessing they didn't get into it to avoid spoilers.

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MaxxCanti

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MaxxCanti • 

Final Fantasy XV has 'jump' and 'pick up item' on the same button. Countless times I'd be standing still beside an item and just jump like 3 times before getting the item.

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breq

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breq • 

I almost always disagree with Abby, but Detroit sounding like one of those rare self serious movies that is actually an unintentional shitfest sounds like A LOT OF FUN.

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mason_pat

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mason_pat • 

I rarely agree with Alex, but in this case I agree with both him and Abby... I think I would be upset having payed like $80 CDN to be beaten over the head with these "super deep" storylines, but at the same time I would love failing at opening a fridge because I screwed up the buttons, or as Vinny said spinning in circles like a jackass when I shouldn't be. Or to see their Rosa Parks parallels.

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breq

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breq • 
@gooni said:

Did... did Abby hate GOW ending because Freya was a bad mother?

Waypoint and Kotaku both have articles about this, how it basically sucks to be a mom/woman in the game, and I'm guessing that's a large part of her/their dislike of it. The ending is also abrupt, especially if you're thinking you'll end up fighting Thor and Odin and don't realize it's a trilogy. The story arc is focused around Baldur and the mothers ashes, it's easy to lose sight of the smaller scope with all this crazy shit happening around you.

I'm not a mythology buff, but my understanding is that a lot of the relationships are just taken from Norse/Greek mythology... Freya is overprotective of her son, and her sons death signals the beginning of Ragnarok. Seeing as the game is very concerned with Ragnarok and such, it makes sense that Baldur and Freya are the way they are, IMO. If Freya were flippant about her son dying, it would make even less sense and make her kind of boring and overly rational for a woman who would rather her son hate and kill her than see him come to harm, despite being a bit of an asshole.

Waypoint's article ends with "Only fathers can remain." since Faye is dead, though I'm not sure how that pertains to Freya. I also don't understand why only fathers can remain, because the prophecy is that Atreus may end up killing Kratos, and sons have a history of killing their fathers.

That said, this is only speculation. It's fine to not like a game for whatever reason, and I'm guessing they didn't get into it to avoid spoilers.

It sucks to be anyone in the God of War universe, not just mothers/women. Kratos was tricked into murdering his family and couldn't take the pain of remembering it, every god and citizen was annihilated in Greece (wait, I think Aphrodite survived), from what we've seen there are few if any lowly humans in Midgard, etc etc.

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armaan8014

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Edited By armaan8014 • 

03:45 - Alex I love the fart talks

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jonc151

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jonc151 • 

We absolutely have plateaued on current consoles. neither are capable of 60fps 4k. let alone 144 that most computers skew towards these days.

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Scojoe66

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Scojoe66 • 

I think the core hang up on that philosophy question that made it so confusing for them, is I don’t think you KNOW that the robot will put additional money into the box before you’re in the room and already had your mind made up. Therefore, at least in my interpretation, it IS more of a question of morals insofar as you’re basically going in as the type of person to take just one box or to take both. Because I think going INTO the room you’ve basically already chosen what you’ll do, so even though the robot would make you want to choose just one box after telling you about the bonus, you only GET that bonus if you came to that conclusion independent from any information you would gain inside the room.

That said I dropped out of college after one semester so I anticipate smarter people telling me I’m wrong lol

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Gooni

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Gooni • 

@mason_pat said:

That said, this is only speculation. It's fine to not like a game for whatever reason, and I'm guessing they didn't get into it to avoid spoilers.

I mean your not wrong. All I can say is that I'm happy I'm not easily bothered when someone in my gender or race is portrayed as someone with flaws.

And I'm also sorry if I'm jumping into conclusions and Abby have other reasons to dislike the games ending.

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mason_pat

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Edited By mason_pat • 

@breq said:

It sucks to be anyone in the God of War universe, not just mothers/women. Kratos was tricked into murdering his family and couldn't take the pain of remembering it, every god and citizen was annihilated in Greece (wait, I think Aphrodite survived), from what we've seen there are few if any lowly humans in Midgard, etc etc.

I agree with you, though there is a danger I am misrepresenting their argument since they've not stated it (again, probably due to spoilers).

From what is known, I think the Kotaku article basically considers Freya and Faye's circumstances as bold statements on the weakness and dire predicaments of women in general, which I think is a bit of a reach. If Freya were studying for her PhD while dating and having it all as a strong independent mother, and if Faye's dead body instead just said "Fuck it Kratos I'm not helping you, I'm pursuing my PhD, dating and having it all in the afterlife" I think the writer would've been satisfied.

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sharkosaur

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sharkosaur • 

Can anyone recall/link the clip (I think it's from Metal Gear Scanlon) where Dan tries the 20 questions thing on Drew and gets a decidedly different result?

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Draugen

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Draugen • 

Meh. My taste in games hasn't aligned with Alex' in forever. I'm downloading Detroit right now. I can't wait for the madness to ensue.

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WorldDude • 

@gooni said:

Did... did Abby hate GOW ending because Freya was a bad mother?

God of War end spoilers below:

Waypoint and Kotaku both have articles about this, how it basically sucks to be a mom/woman in the game, and I'm guessing that's a large part of her/their dislike of it. The ending is also abrupt, especially if you're thinking you'll end up fighting Thor and Odin and don't realize it's a trilogy. The story arc is focused around Baldur and the mothers ashes, it's easy to lose sight of the smaller scope with all this crazy shit happening around you.

I'm not a mythology buff, but my understanding is that a lot of the relationships are just taken from Norse/Greek mythology... Freya is overprotective of her son, and her sons death signals the beginning of Ragnarok. Seeing as the game is very concerned with Ragnarok and such, it makes sense that Baldur and Freya are the way they are, IMO. If Freya were flippant about her son dying, it would make even less sense and make her kind of boring and overly rational for a woman who would rather her son hate and kill her than see him come to harm, despite being a bit of an asshole.

Waypoint's article ends with "Only fathers can remain." since Faye is dead, though I'm not sure how that pertains to Freya. I also don't understand why only fathers can remain, because the prophecy is that Atreus may end up killing Kratos, and sons have a history of killing their fathers.

That said, this is only speculation. It's fine to not like a game for whatever reason, and I'm guessing they didn't get into it to avoid spoilers.

Freya is the only female character in God of War with a speaking role and turns out to just be another example of the overprotective mother trope. It's disappointing considering how interesting she seemed initially, so I completely understand being disappointed in how her story ends.

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petefic

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petefic • 

@worlddude: To be fair, that is literally the story in the Norse myth.

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MHSilver

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MHSilver • 

Horizon Zero Dawn was probably my second favorite game after Zelda last year. I found the world, the story and the breadcrumb delivery of both small-scale flavor and massive revelations completely captivating. I was driven to explore every nook and cranny of that huge map, just to keep getting a better idea of what happened, how it happened, and how the people in the world at the time were impacted.

I also loved hunting the different machines. Whether I was very carefully planning my approach and laying traps, or just kinda found myself in a 'oh shit' situation, and had to react and improvise my way out of it, it was thrilling and fun.

And then I beat it again on New Game+, just for the hell of it.

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Edited By SethMode • 

@petefic: to also be fair Kratos doesn't exist in the myth so it's not like they were necessarily hamstrung to the myth but I understand your point (and they got shit for not being faithful in their portrayals of Baldur, Thor and Odin anyway so whatever). I think the pieces on Waypoint and Kotaku were good and made good points and they could have easily made say, Atreyu a girl, something, to make the female perspective a little more involved. But either way, I don't want to get into a whole thing speculating about speculating about what Abby didn't like about the ending, I just don't really think Freya's role in the myth should matter in a made up video game interpretation.

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villainfb43

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@sharkosaur: https://www.giantbomb.com/videos/metal-gear-scanlon-v-part-13/2300-10784/?comment_page=3&page=499

I totally forgot about that!

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Toug • 
Loading Video...

We've seen both ends of the spectrum now.

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AlmostSwedish

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Is it just me or was the audio quality worse in this one?

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MunnyShh

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MunnyShh • 

Thank you guy for asking about the Samsung phone. I have the same issue with the S7.

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MobiusFun

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MobiusFun • 

I HAVE THE CORRECT ANSWER TO THE PHILOSOPHY QUESTION!

Take the AI. An AI that can read your mind is probably more valuable then $5k or $25k.

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BungusKhan

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Edited By BungusKhan • 

Freya is a great character with many virtues who is pivotal to the story. If we ignore the fact that this is mythology (which should be considered in this case), Freya's only flaw is caring too much. Which is really just the negative of another virtue.

And people are complaining about her?

Clickbait articles are not to be taken seriously, as are those who buy into them.

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Rasrimra

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Edited By Rasrimra • 

The question really becomes: Does the A.I. scan you when you know the problem/does it predict what you do after you know the problem, or does it just scan what you would open if all you know is that there are two boxes with money in it.

If it's the former and the A.I. pretty much always guesses right, then I would assume that it guesses right when I pick one box. And that means I would be a whole lot richer. Thanks, A.I.

If it is the latter, the logical thing is to pick both. Because anyone who only knows there are two boxes with money in it would pick both boxes, and as such the A.I. would not have put in $20000 in one box anyways.

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Gooni

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Edited By Gooni • 
@bunguskhan said:

Clickbait articles are not to be taken seriously, as are those who buy into them.

Maybe your right? Maybe we should learn from Freya's sad tale and not care too much.

It's only video games after all

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andrewevans

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Thankfully Horizon can be discussed again so everything incredible about it can be brushed by in two sentences while minor grievances and irrelevant, not to mention untrue aspects of Guerrilla Games' past catalog can dominate the time that it's on-topic. I'm glad Vinny chose to finish it, at least.

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dirkturgid • 

Dunno if Bakalar is actually unaware, but the ps3 linux settlement thing was like $65 for filling out a form.

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John_Wiswell

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Edited By John_Wiswell • 

I knew who Dan was asking about because the other time he's played this game is literally my favorite GB thing. Self-spoiled.

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ildon

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ildon • 

That two box question is intentionally ambiguously written to cause argument.

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doncabesa • 

@jonc151 said:

We absolutely have plateaued on current consoles. neither are capable of 60fps 4k. let alone 144 that most computers skew towards these days.

halo 5 and forza 7 both run 4k/60, it's possible if the company values framerate over bells and whistles

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doncabesa

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doncabesa • 

Dunno if Bakalar is actually unaware, but the ps3 linux settlement thing was like $65 for filling out a form.

Bakalar's favorite thing is to make certain statements without possessing any actual facts.

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Edited By skinnyluigi • 

take both boxes, obviously. not seeing the paradox

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KDR_11k • 

@jonc151 said:

We absolutely have plateaued on current consoles. neither are capable of 60fps 4k. let alone 144 that most computers skew towards these days.

Framerate is purely based on development priorities, no matter how powerful the console is, if the goal is 30 FPS then they'll use more and more computing power until the framerate is down to 30. PCs can only exceed that because you can have better hardware than the developer was targeting.

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Edited By SirPsychoSexy • 

@mason_pat said:
@gooni said:

Did... did Abby hate GOW ending because Freya was a bad mother?

God of War end spoilers below:

Waypoint and Kotaku both have articles about this, how it basically sucks to be a mom/woman in the game, and I'm guessing that's a large part of her/their dislike of it. The ending is also abrupt, especially if you're thinking you'll end up fighting Thor and Odin and don't realize it's a trilogy. The story arc is focused around Baldur and the mothers ashes, it's easy to lose sight of the smaller scope with all this crazy shit happening around you.

I'm not a mythology buff, but my understanding is that a lot of the relationships are just taken from Norse/Greek mythology... Freya is overprotective of her son, and her sons death signals the beginning of Ragnarok. Seeing as the game is very concerned with Ragnarok and such, it makes sense that Baldur and Freya are the way they are, IMO. If Freya were flippant about her son dying, it would make even less sense and make her kind of boring and overly rational for a woman who would rather her son hate and kill her than see him come to harm, despite being a bit of an asshole.

Waypoint's article ends with "Only fathers can remain." since Faye is dead, though I'm not sure how that pertains to Freya. I also don't understand why only fathers can remain, because the prophecy is that Atreus may end up killing Kratos, and sons have a history of killing their fathers.

That said, this is only speculation. It's fine to not like a game for whatever reason, and I'm guessing they didn't get into it to avoid spoilers.

Those articles you mentioned really rubbed me the wrong way. I mean they made Freya a super interesting and well developed character in this game. What could you possibly do more than that to better the portrayal of women in games?

Did people want some perfect mother figure in this game or something? If anything that seems somewhat disingenuous to woman considering nearly every single character in this games universe is completely detestable. I mean even the father figure Kratos, who admittedly is trying to do better, is an absolutely abhorrent dude. I imagine if Freya was an outstanding mother people would go on to complain why isn't this female character more complex and better developed?

Maybe people wanted just more female characters in the game in general? I can kinda see that, but at the same time there are very few characters even in the game at all and I doubt they would want to give up the iconic Norse gods they chose. They are a big pull to this games story for many people.

I can understand criticisms of games in general not having enough prominent, fleshed out female characters (although we seem to be doing drastically better as time goes on), but I think God of War is not an offender and even did right by women in a big way.

Sometimes I wonder if people are even coming up with these things that bother them as they play or if they are just reading something after they already enjoyed the game and just souring on it for the sake of pointing out any tiny perceived injustices to x group of people. That doesn't seem like an enjoyable way to consume games. And I am definitely not saying we shouldn't find injustices and change games for the better. But when people start finding the tiniest things in games that do just about everything right socially and representation wise, it become tiresome and probably weakens future arguments you make for games that actually are dropping the ball and doing a disservice to groups of people.