The HotSpot - Episode 391

I do hope a shift toward more consumer-friendly refund policies taps the brakes on the day-one / post-release patch this industry has been using as a crutch for so long now. "Thanks for buying our broken product we rushed out the door. It will be fixed soon, we promise."

In fairness when they booked a controversial person for the Beastcast a few months ago Abby did give a non-apology where they never said sorry either

The history of CDPR isn't great...was Witcher III a fluke?

@plinko: long reply ahead, be warned lol :D

Im not saying overtime for extended durations is fun, it gets old for sure no matter who you are. But here's the thing, deadlines exist for a reason. Especially in the construction world where i worked for 15 years, when I was working on big projects like a school that HAS to be done before the school year starts so kids have a school to go to then you have to do what it takes to get that done. The people that pay for these projects aren't going to pay for the project to take 3x as long because people wanna only work 8-5 everyday no matter what's going on and how far behind schedule you are. Same with digital projects, yeah sure everyone can only work 8 hours a day but that game that was going to take 4 years under normal overtime conditions suddenly moves to 6-7 years, and then during that time there will be engine changes and underlying architecture changes which might then facilitate changes that undo some of what's been done. Assets have to be redone because techniques have changed allowing for better textures or models.

It's a very hard balance to find but IMO it's a necessary evil. You think it takes a long time to build a skyscraper or bridge or highway system or house, just wait until no one works overtime. And until construction techniques and methods (in the both the physical and digital sense) advance far enough to compensate for not having to work overtime than it's going to be a part of the job.

I just hope people realize overtime is part of what makes our world go round, for better or worse, doctors, first responders, teachers, lawyers, people in construction have been doing this long before tech people started doing it and no one cared because it wasn't in "their field of interest" and that sucks. And to be fair people in the tech world have it WAY better than most, Id gave my left arm 3 times over to work overtime coding a game or program then working in sub zero or 120 plus degree temperatures building a car dealership or school or hospital.

The main thing id like to say and I hope people read out of this is:

FIGHT FOR EVERYONE OR SHUT THE HELL UP

Overtime has existed long before programming/coding became a avenue of employment but yet people act like it's only in that little bubble in which it exists and that infuriates me to no end.

End of rant, thanks for reading all of this if you did, please feel free to message directly if you, always glad to have a discussion about this :)

why is this listen under videos when really, it is not one. Also, why not an actual video?

ingore my last comment, that for some reason I cannot edit - even though video was chosen, it was doin the audio thing. Had to refresh and all that...

Also - the bugs with CP2077 are not even the true issue - it is not the RPG (etc.) they said they were making. Even the shit they were saying last this year describes a game they apparently didn't make, and no, this is not just people being over hyped.

@one1zero0one: Yeah I forgot about all the stuff to do in the open world too.

People who lament the working conditions in tech are attempting to "fight for everyone". Construction, for example, was successfully unionized over a century ago. Maybe that's why you don't seem to remember people in your profession lamenting their hours, compensation, or job security - these problems were already solved in your industry, long before you showed up. Tech and games development, on the other hand, is still not widely unionized, if at all.

It's ridiculous and myopic to assert that "people act like it's only in that little bubble in which [overtime] exists". Perhaps you are only reading games coverage, and have also forgotten your entire professional career, and are also somehow totally unaware of the nearly three-hundred-year struggle for universal labor rights?

Whatever your knowledge, the main thing I'd like to say to you, and everyone else who very weirdly wants to shout about how they work disastrously long hours to the detriment of their bodies and their lives, so why can't everyone else, is this:

You shouldn't be proud of how many lashings you can take. You should be angry that you were lashed.

Like clockwork, another group of "well my job crunches all the time!" posts pop up. Others have touched on this well, but I would like to simply say ALL crunch is bad management and poor preparation. In every industry. The lower folks get squished because of poor planning. Look at a broad thing like COVID-19... the Healthcare industry wasn't prepared for this, be it poor infrastructure in some countries, or just a situation that truly someone can't prepare for, and they've been crunching for like 10 months. It is always a sign that things are untenable, it just matters how much and to whom.

It's only the best game ever. Simply breathtaking (pun intended).

what's the intro/outro music?

@kcin: Oh buddy your off the mark, for one your over estimating the percentage of the construction industry/field that's in a union, it's far lower than what your probably thinking especially in more rural areas. And two I'm not saying overtime is cool or awesome, if you read my comment I say it sucks but until things advance enough to compensate then overtime is going to be a thing. I would love it if overtime didn't exist and everything got done on time. But I also know people that live off the overtime, and if it wasn't there they wouldn't make it, Im by no means saying that justifies it but it does genuinely help some people.

And your really swinging for the fences saying "you don't get it, we ARE fighting for all", I have never once seen someone on here or any other gaming site, comment section or staff, talk about a single field outside of the game dev world, period. Another interesting thing I see is people have this white knight/moral compass mentality where they say "we should show them and not support that company and not buy their products, that'll teach them" yet you still blindly support and buy products from literally every other business or line of work that supports overtime without a second thought? So no, your not fighting for or being an activist for literally anyone but game devs, as the saying goes actions speak louder than words.

People think they have their finger on the pulse but they're really miles off.

And can we drop the melodramatic "lashing" term, that's a bit much. You could use "overtime" and the message would still ring the same. No need for hyperbole.

The idea of "Overtime" wouldn't exist if people didn't fight for the idea that you get paid more/get benefits if you work over 40 hours a week, depending on where you live and laws. In America, things like labor protections have been destroyed thanks to the influence of money in politics and the slow erosion of class consciousnesses. Also I will add that most game developers are on salary, meaning that they don't get paid extra for working more hours. So they can't "live off overtime" because it cuts into any time they would have for any side-projects or gigs that would actually pay them. I think in Poland they do have better labor laws for that sort of stuff, but definitely not the United States.

The Giant Bomb crew, and whatever video game website you go to, aren't going to be on the pulse of the labor conditions in any industry they don't cover. So of course they are talking about overtime and exploitation of workers in the industry that they cover.

You might feel that these people are "just discovering" this, but I think it shows an evolution in the discourse of the industry. Before, games coverage was more an advertisement, now games pundints feel more open to discuss other things in the industry other than the newest hottest game item and reviews.

@schindigg: How was I not saying to fight for everyone in my entire post? Do you think I only want this stuff for video games? I want this fixed in every single industry. You're assuming I'm unaware of the overtime in other places and I'm not. My whole problem is focused on that! I also don't understand why you keep saying you've never seen anyone talk about other industries online when in this very comment section you have people talking about wanting all industries to be better. A lot of your issues with what I said are based in root problems in the system that should be fixed. You're saying getting rid of overtime would ruin some people that depend on that compensation, I'm saying nobody should need to rely on overtime to live. It should be a bonus, not a requirement. That's the whole problem with "optional" overtime that isn't optional to many people who need the extra money. Nobody should feel forced to work longer because their lives are on the line.

Another thing you said is that projects would take longer and people would be impatient, to which I say that's the fault of our society demanding things be done quickly regardless of the human cost. If games took 8 years to come out on average instead of 3 or 4, I would be fine with that. No game is worth the human cost that it often comes with. Same with buildings or roads or anything that would take longer. I don't care if everything takes longer if it meant people were treated fairly and didn't have to sacrifice time that they can never get back. The whole problem is this toxic idea that being overworked and underpaid is normal. It shouldn't be in any industry or any job, and I don't care about the "negative" impacts it would have if the other option is to abuse people to get it done.

Wow! I just turned premium to watch this!

EDIT: It was worth it!

@plinko: I completely agree that our society has gotten too used to the speed at which things are produced regardless of the situations needed to get it done, and that's a fundamental problem that I can't even begin to think about how to solve, but it mainly goes back to money. And yes I agree no project is worth human suffering in a idealistic world, but frankly in our current dystopian world we don't have the building techniques to make that possible. And really I was referring to construction projects on the time scale issue. With games/music/movies Id be totally fine with it taking longer, we have a total over saturation of the market in literally every form of media and it makes everything worse as a result. But in a construction sense you can't spend 10+ years building a school, hospital, bridge, or say a car dealership simply because with our current methods and materials you would be have to take extra crews to start repairing and fixing parts of the project before it's even done and then at that point what are you even doing.

And yes people shouldn't have to rely on overtime to get by, but until our rotten government and corporate system start instituting higher general wages and a higher minimum wage then Im not sure what else some people can do, especially in smaller rural towns where jobs aren't near as plentiful that might be the only choice someone has, and that sucks. Maybe some people in here are talking about other industries and overtime but ton's of other sites comments sections you never see it, at least I don't. This issue as a whole really leads into tons of other over and underlying issues that should be addressed or really thought about but sadly 99% of people never will. As they say "you can't stop progress", BUT, we can redirect where that progress goes, but what it would take for that to happen in the right direction is beyond me. I just hope comments sections like these can help spark some dialogue and raise some general awareness. But who knows ''shrugs and sighs"

the neoliberal project to smash organized labor, atomize the working class and erode all of the hard won worker protections and benefits has been largely successful. a not insignificant amount of people are starting to realize theyve been bamboozled, but a large percentage of them have taken the wrong lessons from their immiseration and now shout about minorities and walls and wear stupid hats. the fact that even those that realize their precarity are fractured means we are probably doomed to a neofeudal hellworld of bullshit gigwork to scrape by

@nick: Yeah, I think someone has a nervous tick where they move their leg and it's hitting something. Not really chill to listen to.