Something went wrong. Try again later
    Follow

    StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty

    Game » consists of 10 releases. Released Jul 27, 2010

    The first chapter in the StarCraft II trilogy focuses on the struggles of the Terran race, as seen through the eyes of Commander Jim Raynor, leader of the rebel group Raynor's Raiders.

    How do you counter mass stalkers?

    Avatar image for mistasparkle
    MistaSparkle

    2293

    Forum Posts

    999

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 7

    #1  Edited By MistaSparkle

    I just started playing SC2 and quickly learned I have had a 0% success rate when fighting against protoss. This is mainly because of what I hear is called a mass stalkers rush. This thing sucks. I don't know what to do. Please help fellow Giantbombros(bras)!  
    P.S. I'm playing as terran.

    Avatar image for csl316
    csl316

    17006

    Forum Posts

    765

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 10

    #2  Edited By csl316

    Well, you can't go wrong with Medivac+Marauders with concussive shell.  Siege tanks will keep em at bay, just watch out for blink.  Both of those units do bonus damage vs. armored units (which stalkers are).

    Avatar image for mistasparkle
    MistaSparkle

    2293

    Forum Posts

    999

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 7

    #3  Edited By MistaSparkle

    I had 3 siege tanks but they got messed up right quick. Are they weaker in siege mode?

    Avatar image for colmirage
    ColMirage

    260

    Forum Posts

    62

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #4  Edited By ColMirage

    Marauders with stim wreck mass stalkers.

    Avatar image for meteora
    meteora

    5844

    Forum Posts

    17

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 3

    #5  Edited By meteora

    Mass Marauder balls with Medivacs always beats a Stalker army. Stalkers are actually so pitifully weak that its sad.

    Avatar image for delta_ass
    delta_ass

    3776

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 36

    User Lists: 7

    #6  Edited By delta_ass

    Place your back to a wall and knock them down with the Force Gun when they charge you.

    Avatar image for wickedcestus
    WickedCestus

    3779

    Forum Posts

    1123

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 11

    User Lists: 7

    #7  Edited By WickedCestus

    You don't! AHAHAHA seriously though please don't because I like to make a lot of blink stalkers and I don't like losing.

    Avatar image for csl316
    csl316

    17006

    Forum Posts

    765

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 10

    #8  Edited By csl316
    @MistaSparkle said:
    " I had 3 siege tanks but they got messed up right quick. Are they weaker in siege mode? "
    Definitely not weaker, but it's all about positioning and patience if you're going that route.  And yes, I forgot to add that Stim is key.  And upgrades if you're going mass infantry, of course.
    Avatar image for mistasparkle
    MistaSparkle

    2293

    Forum Posts

    999

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 7

    #9  Edited By MistaSparkle
    @csl316: I had them placed behind the destructible rubble, and the they went into siege mode. Then, stalkers ran up, destroyed the rubble and my siege tanks didn't even fire a single shot.
    Avatar image for csl316
    csl316

    17006

    Forum Posts

    765

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 10

    #10  Edited By csl316
    @MistaSparkle: 
    Interesting, I'd like to see the replay, actually.
     
    If they didn't fire they must have not had vision (for example, if the stalkers were on top of a hill you woudn't be able to see them).  A scan from an orbital command could fix that, or a flying unit such as the Viking.  Remember that tanks can fire further than they see, but they won't fire a thing if the unit isn't in vision.
    Avatar image for jadeskye
    Jadeskye

    4392

    Forum Posts

    2125

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 6

    #11  Edited By Jadeskye

    marauders are king against stalkers i find.

    Avatar image for mistasparkle
    MistaSparkle

    2293

    Forum Posts

    999

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 7

    #12  Edited By MistaSparkle
    @csl316: Ah. I think that was my problem. I'll check the tapes 2mrw to make sure, but thanks for telling me. I'll have to improve on that.
    Avatar image for csl316
    csl316

    17006

    Forum Posts

    765

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 10

    #13  Edited By csl316
    @MistaSparkle: Yeah, it's a big part of tanks.  That's why if you watch a pro Terran vs. Terran game they'll have Vikings flying around for air control.  Not to attack ground units, but to gain vision for their tanks.
    Avatar image for ben_h
    Ben_H

    4846

    Forum Posts

    1628

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 5

    #14  Edited By Ben_H

    Marauders with conc. shell make me rage when going blink stalkers.  They slow the stalkers down and eat through them really fast.  Stalkers don't stand up well unsupported against an mmm ball in general though.

    Avatar image for imsh_pl
    imsh_pl

    4208

    Forum Posts

    51

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 4

    #15  Edited By imsh_pl

    Show us the replay, we don't even know if your opponent's army composition is the problem.

    Avatar image for winternet
    Winternet

    8454

    Forum Posts

    2255

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 6

    #16  Edited By Winternet

    Stim, concussive grenades and mass marauders, baby.

    Avatar image for deactivated-5d0799277f8eb
    deactivated-5d0799277f8eb

    90

    Forum Posts

    29

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 4

    Send a replay, let's have a look so we can see better what the problem was.

    Avatar image for demonbear
    demonbear

    1943

    Forum Posts

    7

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 13

    #18  Edited By demonbear
    @Delta_Ass said:
    " Place your back to a wall and knock them down with the Force Gun when they charge you. "
    I lol'd
    Avatar image for tunaburn
    tunaburn

    2093

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #19  Edited By tunaburn

    at the risk of sounding like a broken record here.... 
     
    marauders eat stalkers

    Avatar image for wicked_wumpus
    wicked_wumpus

    202

    Forum Posts

    42

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 8

    #20  Edited By wicked_wumpus

    Use the ghosts EMP to destroy their shields and then the marauders should have a very easy time taking them out.

    Avatar image for csl316
    csl316

    17006

    Forum Posts

    765

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 10

    #21  Edited By csl316
    @MistaSparkle: Did you find out what the problem was?  Any progress since 3 weeks ago?
    Avatar image for kylebaron
    KyleBaron

    181

    Forum Posts

    5

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 2

    #22  Edited By KyleBaron

    Tanks in normal mode can do some good damage vs an early stalker rush, especially if you have the tanks behind a wall with your scvs repairing them and your mauraders offering backup. 
     
    Tanks in normal mode have great DPS versus armored units. 

    Avatar image for csl316
    csl316

    17006

    Forum Posts

    765

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 10

    #23  Edited By csl316
    @KyleBaron: yeah, i'm surprised how little that's used
    Avatar image for thejamster
    thejamster

    270

    Forum Posts

    153

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 1

    #24  Edited By thejamster

    mmm with stim... pretty much destroys gateway units hard.  Unless they manage to get 2/2 upgrades

    Avatar image for mike17032
    Mike17032

    107

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 12

    User Lists: 0

    #25  Edited By Mike17032

    Mass anything.  
     
    Seriously, Stalkers are one of the worst cost effective units in the game.  In smaller numbers they actually lose to workers for cost.   
     
    If you want to really obliterate them: 
     
    As Toss Immortals eat them alive.   
     
    Terrans will destroy them with Marauders.   
     
    For Zerg, just about anything.  Lings, Roaches, and Hydras all beat them badly for cost.  

    Avatar image for imsh_pl
    imsh_pl

    4208

    Forum Posts

    51

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 4

    #26  Edited By imsh_pl
    @Mike17032:  I disagree.
     
    Stalkers are very good in small packs, escpecially against units with smaller range. They can always retreat when in trouble (not against speedlings, of course). They are also incredible anti-air units, both against armored and non-armored flyers.
     
    Also, stalkers win a fight vs roaches easily. That 'lose to workers' statement is really bold too, imo.
    Avatar image for mementomori
    mementomori

    194

    Forum Posts

    609

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 1

    #27  Edited By mementomori

    The problem isn't that "you had the wrong unit"
     
    it's likely
     
    "you suck at macro"

    Avatar image for csl316
    csl316

    17006

    Forum Posts

    765

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 10

    #28  Edited By csl316
    @MementoMori:  He just started playing when this was posted, give the guy a break.
     
    @imsh_pl: The stalker mobility is what makes them awesome, I think.  Blink, and the fact that they're so damn fast just makes them a pain to deal with as a terran.  They can outmaneuver a mech army, warp in to deflect drops, and destroy vikings trying to target a colossus with ease.  Good unit.  I hate it.
    Avatar image for mike17032
    Mike17032

    107

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 12

    User Lists: 0

    #29  Edited By Mike17032
    @imsh_pl:  " Also, stalkers win a fight vs roaches easily. That 'lose to workers' statement is really bold too, imo." 
     
    Stalkers are flat out destroyed by Roaches of EQUAL COST.   Sure if you send even numbers the Stalkers come out slightly ahead, but a Stalker costs 2x what a roach does.  When out numbered 2-1 Stalkers get smashed quickly.   The fight isn't even close, Stalkers get annihilated.   
     
    As for workers beating them for cost, ya in practical terms that is not true.  But take 4 works and send them on a stalker (without micro) and the workers win.   Things turn for the stalkers when numbers grow, but the point still stands.  
    Avatar image for mike17032
    Mike17032

    107

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 12

    User Lists: 0

    #30  Edited By Mike17032
    @csl316 said:
    " @MementoMori:  He just started playing when this was posted, give the guy a break.
     
    @imsh_pl: The stalker mobility is what makes them awesome, I think.  Blink, and the fact that they're so damn fast just makes them a pain to deal with as a terran.  They can outmaneuver a mech army, warp in to deflect drops, and destroy vikings trying to target a colossus with ease.  Good unit.  I hate it. "
     
    Stalkers are a poorly designed unit.  They move too fast, are too durable, and worst of all do far too little damage.  They are designed to be a ranged support unit, they should hit harder and die faster.  Their mobility is also too good.   They are also the reason Toss AA is awful, they are counted for cost by anything that can hit them from the air.  
     
    Zealots on the other hand are far too slow, even with Charge (and charge comes too late).   
     
    Right now Terran micro renders all Toss T1 counterable by either Marines or Marauders.  FF is the crutch that keep Toss in the early game, and that is poorly designed too because it is too powerful before its later counters hit the field.   
     
    Toss needs some major reworking in their units and when they get their tech upgrades.  Not buffed so much as changed.  
    Avatar image for donos
    Donos

    1245

    Forum Posts

    22

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 1

    #31  Edited By Donos
    @Mike17032 said:

      They are designed to be a ranged support unit, they should hit harder and die faster.  Their mobility is also too good.  "

    If it doesn't walk like a support unit, swim like a support unit or quack like a support unit, maybe it's not a support unit.
    Avatar image for starvinggamer
    StarvingGamer

    11533

    Forum Posts

    36428

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 25

    #32  Edited By StarvingGamer
    @Mike17032: I'd like to direct you to the IMMvp Up/Down series of games from the current season of GSL.
    Avatar image for donutfever
    donutfever

    4057

    Forum Posts

    1959

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 35

    #33  Edited By donutfever

    Mass Restraining Orders. 
    Boom.

    Avatar image for csl316
    csl316

    17006

    Forum Posts

    765

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 10

    #34  Edited By csl316
    @DonutFever: oh man. thread solved.
    Avatar image for imsh_pl
    imsh_pl

    4208

    Forum Posts

    51

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 4

    #35  Edited By imsh_pl
    @Mike17032 said:

    " @imsh_pl:  " Also, stalkers win a fight vs roaches easily. That 'lose to workers' statement is really bold too, imo."  Stalkers are flat out destroyed by Roaches of EQUAL COST.   Sure if you send even numbers the Stalkers come out slightly ahead, but a Stalker costs 2x what a roach does.  When out numbered 2-1 Stalkers get smashed quickly.   The fight isn't even close, Stalkers get annihilated.    As for workers beating them for cost, ya in practical terms that is not true.  But take 4 works and send them on a stalker (without micro) and the workers win.   Things turn for the stalkers when numbers grow, but the point still stands.   "

    You seem to be the guy to whom comparing 2 units boils down to comparing their damage and mineral/gas cost and counting their overall dps. 
     
    Micro says hi.
    Supply says hi. 
    Zerg larvae say hi.
     
    EDIT: Out of curiosity, I just checked that. 4 stalkers win against 8 roaches without losing any health (well, one stalker lost ~10 health, I think - mismicro). The same applies to 1v2 and 5v10. I'll post the replays if you want.
     
     

    @Mike17032

    said:

    " @csl316 said:

    " @MementoMori:  He just started playing when this was posted, give the guy a break.
     
    @imsh_pl: The stalker mobility is what makes them awesome, I think.  Blink, and the fact that they're so damn fast just makes them a pain to deal with as a terran.  They can outmaneuver a mech army, warp in to deflect drops, and destroy vikings trying to target a colossus with ease.  Good unit.  I hate it. "

     Stalkers are a poorly designed unit.  They move too fast, are too durable, and worst of all do far too little damage.  They are designed to be a ranged support unit, they should hit harder and die faster.  Their mobility is also too good.   They are also the reason Toss AA is awful, they are counted for cost by anything that can hit them from the air.

    Lololol it's exactly the opposite.
     
    They hit hard. And die not so slowly, too.
     

      They are also the reason Toss AA is awful, they are counted for cost by anything that can hit them from the air.  


    And toss AA is not awful.
     
    Take the numbers out of your head! You can't say that "unit A costs X money and X gas, therefore unit B is better because it's cheaper". It is just a stupid way to compare units, because they do not boil down to only DPS and health.
     
     

    @Mike17032

    said:

    " @imsh_pl:  "  As for workers beating them for cost, ya in practical terms that is not true.  But take 4 works and send them on a stalker (without micro) and the workers win.   Things turn for the stalkers when numbers grow, but the point still stands.   "

    Give me a single sane reason why I wouldn't micro my stalker when it's being attacked by 4 workers.
     
    Just one.
     
    The point doesn't 'still stand' because you're trying to describe a situation which would never occur.
    Avatar image for bombkareshi
    BombKareshi

    1042

    Forum Posts

    3448

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 3

    #36  Edited By BombKareshi
    @MementoMori said:
    " The problem isn't that "you had the wrong unit"  
     
    it's likely "
     
    *MementoMori puts on sunglasses*

    " "you suck at macro" "
     

    No Caption Provided
    Avatar image for mike17032
    Mike17032

    107

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 12

    User Lists: 0

    #37  Edited By Mike17032

    @Donos said:

    " @Mike17032 said:

      They are designed to be a ranged support unit, they should hit harder and die faster.  Their mobility is also too good.  "

    If it doesn't walk like a support unit, swim like a support unit or quack like a support unit, maybe it's not a support unit. "
     
     
     
       
     
    "Ranged support" make of 2 of the 3 words in the tooltip.   One would assume that is what Blizzard designed it to be.
      
     
     @imsh_pl said: 

    @Mike17032 said: 

    @imsh_pl:  " Also, stalkers win a fight vs roaches easily. That 'lose to workers' statement is really bold too, imo."  Stalkers are flat out destroyed by Roaches of EQUAL COST.   Sure if you send even numbers the Stalkers come out slightly ahead, but a Stalker costs 2x what a roach does.  When out numbered 2-1 Stalkers get smashed quickly.   The fight isn't even close, Stalkers get annihilated.    As for workers beating them for cost, ya in practical terms that is not true.  But take 4 works and send them on a stalker (without micro) and the workers win.   Things turn for the stalkers when numbers grow, but the point still stands.   "

    You seem to be the guy to whom comparing 2 units boils down to comparing their damage and mineral/gas cost and counting their overall dps.  
     
    Micro says hi. 
    Supply says hi.  
    Zerg larvae say hi. 
     
      
    Yes, I would be the guy who compares the single most important aspect of what is considered a counter to what, cost.  For cost, Stalkers flat out lose to roaches.  
     
     

    "Lololol it's exactly the opposite. 
     
    They hit hard. And die not so slowly, too.   " 
     
    Yes, taking 4 shots to kill a worker is "hitting hard".  Interesting concept there.   They also scale terribly with upgrades, while roaches don't.
     
    "   And toss AA is not awful.  
     
    Take the numbers out of your head! You can't say that "unit A costs X money and X gas, therefore unit B is better because it's cheaper". It is just a stupid way to compare units, because they do not boil down to only DPS and health. " 
     
    No, it boils down to a lot of of things.  And yes, Toss have by far the worst AA of all 3 races.  They are the only race to lack a gas free unit that can defend against air harass.  That alone is a huge problem.  Add in the fact that stalkers are countered for cost by any air unit that has the ability to hit them and things get worse.  
      
    "  Give me a single sane reason why I wouldn't micro my stalker when it's being attacked by 4 workers. Just one.  The point doesn't 'still stand' because you're trying to describe a situation which would never occur. ""
     
    Thats the point, that without micro they are less effective (in small numbers of course) in combat than workers.   That is just sad.   
     
    Stalkers are a poorly designed unit that leave a large gap in the protoss T1.5 tree.   They are the main reason that Terran T1 mops the floor with Toss.  
    Avatar image for rockanomics
    Rockanomics

    1187

    Forum Posts

    8000

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #38  Edited By Rockanomics
    @DonutFever said:

    " Mass Restraining Orders. Boom. "

    Gaaaaad damnit... you got me. 
     
    But yeah, haven't played SC2 in forever but your answer to Stalkers is MMM ball, also the answer to almost everything else. If your losing with that, use more skill, or macro better, whatever works.
    Avatar image for bernardsregards
    BernardsRegards

    7

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #39  Edited By BernardsRegards

    Stalkers are not a problem when your Terran. 
    Marauders beat stalkers and Terrans can wall in early on. 
     
    Tips? 
    Work on a strong opening build to have a defensive start. 
    Work on your macro-management to keep the Marauder-Stalker ratio in your favor. 
     
    Try something different? 
    Wall in and go for +1 Attack early on, and then mass Marauder rush them.

    Avatar image for imsh_pl
    imsh_pl

    4208

    Forum Posts

    51

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 4

    #40  Edited By imsh_pl
    @Mike17032 said:
      

    "Yes, I would be the guy who compares the single most important aspect of what is considered a counter to what, cost.  For cost, Stalkers flat out lose to roaches. " 

     
    I don't know if you noticed, but 2 roaches don't cost as much as one stalker. 
     
    Also, if you want to suppose than 1 stalker equals 2 roaches: again, stalkers lose no health while killing all the roaches. Watch these two games.

     "Yes, taking 4 shots to kill a worker is "hitting hard".  Interesting concept there. " 


     
    Oh, so you're saying that a unit is bad because it takes too many shots to kill a worker with it? 
     
    Interesting concept there.
     
    By your definition dark templar is the best unit in the game, and stalkers are better than marauders.
     

    "And yes, Toss have by far the worst AA of all 3 races."


    Uhm, nope.
     

    "They are the only race to lack a gas free unit that can defend against air harass.  That alone is a huge problem. "


     
    It's not a problem at all, really. I haven't heard anyone complain that stalkers are bad AA because they cost gas. Except you, that is.
     

     "Add in the fact that stalkers are countered for cost by any air unit that has the ability to hit them and things get worse. "  


     
    Give me a possible combination of any number of stalkers vs any number of flying units which cost exactly the same, both mineral, gas and supply wise.
     
    Oh, turns out there is none.
     

    "Thats the point, that without micro they are less effective (in small numbers of course) in combat than workers."


     
    Every unit in the game is less effective without micro, actually. When you're buying a unit, you're not only paying only for damage and health, you know.
     
     
    I don't know why you're so obssessed with comparing units based solely on their damage, health and cost. In SC II there are way too many factors in such equasion, and there is no possible way to state if one unit is better than the other. Every unit has its advantages and disadvantages.
    Avatar image for mike17032
    Mike17032

    107

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 12

    User Lists: 0

    #41  Edited By Mike17032
    @imsh_pl said: 
     
      I don't know if you noticed, but 2 roaches don't cost as much as one stalker.  
     
    Also, if you want to suppose than 1 stalker equals 2 roaches: again, stalkers lose no health while killing all the roaches. Watch these two games.  
     
    Not quite, no.  But it is very close to that.  And again, for cost Roaches beat Stalkers.  This isn't something that is up for debate, it is simple fact.   Toss need either Immortals, VRs, or Coli to stop Roach play from Zergs. 
     
    And grats on finding someone who knew how to micro their stalkers vs someone who didn't know how to micro Roaches (or was too lazy to research burrow, something that hits the field long before blink).  Better players rolling scrubs isn't good evidence for unit balance. 
     
     
    "Oh, so you're saying that a unit is bad because it takes too many shots to kill a worker with it?  
    Interesting concept there.
    By your definition dark templar is the best unit in the game, and stalkers are better than marauders.  " 
     
    No, just proving you wrong on stalkers "hitting hard".  They don't , at all.  Not even against armored where they get a terribly scaling bonus.  It is hard to find a unit that does lower DPS, because you can't.  They have the lowest unarmored DPS in the game almost, two workers do almost as much.   Is this the part where you tell me DPS doesn't matter and there are other factors involved in "hitting hard"?  
      
    http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=t8Z5bsJL0-2LyqHW1DWUAYA&output=html  
     
      "  Uhm, nope.  " 
     
    Your utter lack of evidence has totally convinced me that Toss AA is great.  Even though they are the only race with no gas free AA units, and ground units that flat out lose to anything with the ability to hit them back.   
     
    "  It's not a problem at all, really. I haven't heard anyone complain that stalkers are bad AA because they cost gas. Except you, that is." 
     
    Then you must not understand the game well, or spend much time reading the Battle.net forums.  Having a gas cost on a unit is a big difference vs one that does not, and Toss is already very gas heavy.   If I have to explain why it matters, you wouldn't understand it anyway.
     
    Btw they are not "bad" because they cost gas, they are bad because they lose for cost to all flying units.  The fact that they cost gas is only adding insult to injury.   The idea that you need "exact" cost is just silly, not sure what kind of logic you are trying to use but it's failing.  
     
    "    Every unit in the game is less effective without micro, actually. When you're buying a unit, you're not only paying only for damage and health, you know.    I don't know why you're so obssessed with comparing units based solely on their damage, health and cost. In SC II there are way too many factors in such equasion, and there is no possible way to state if one unit is better than the other. Every unit has its advantages and disadvantages. "" 
     
    Look up, thats my point going right over your head.   No, I don't expect you to understand.  But given the many other things you seem to not understand about SC2 I wouldn't worry about this one too much.   
    Avatar image for mike17032
    Mike17032

    107

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 12

    User Lists: 0

    #42  Edited By Mike17032
    @BernardsRegards said:
    " Stalkers are not a problem when your Terran. Marauders beat stalkers and Terrans can wall in early on.  Tips? Work on a strong opening build to have a defensive start. Work on your macro-management to keep the Marauder-Stalker ratio in your favor.  Try something different? Wall in and go for +1 Attack early on, and then mass Marauder rush them. "
     
    I will add that you really want Concussive Shell early vs Toss, because it will not only nullify Zealots but also prevent him from playing kite games with Stalkers.  That upgrade is very good vs Toss.
    Avatar image for imsh_pl
    imsh_pl

    4208

    Forum Posts

    51

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 4

    #43  Edited By imsh_pl
    @Mike17032 said:

    " @imsh_pl said: 
     
      I don't know if you noticed, but 2 roaches don't cost as much as one stalker.  
     
    Also, if you want to suppose than 1 stalker equals 2 roaches: again, stalkers lose no health while killing all the roaches. Watch  these  two games.   Not quite, no.  But it is very close to that.  And again, for cost Roaches beat Stalkers.  This isn't something that is up for debate, it is simple fact.   Toss need either Immortals, VRs, or Coli to stop Roach play from Zergs.  And grats on finding someone who knew how to micro their stalkers vs someone who didn't know how to micro Roaches (or was too lazy to research burrow, something that hits the field long before blink).  Better players rolling scrubs isn't good evidence for unit balance.   "Oh, so you're saying that a unit is bad because it takes too many shots to kill a worker with it?  Interesting concept there.By your definition dark templar is the best unit in the game, and stalkers are better than marauders.  "  No, just proving you wrong on stalkers "hitting hard".  They don't , at all.  Not even against armored where they get a terribly scaling bonus.  It is hard to find a unit that does lower DPS, because you can't.  They have the lowest unarmored DPS in the game almost, two workers do almost as much.   Is this the part where you tell me DPS doesn't matter and there are other factors involved in "hitting hard"?    http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=t8Z5bsJL0-2LyqHW1DWUAYA&output=html     "  Uhm, nope.  "  Your utter lack of evidence has totally convinced me that Toss AA is great.  Even though they are the only race with no gas free AA units, and ground units that flat out lose to anything with the ability to hit them back.    "  It's not a problem at all, really. I haven't heard anyone complain that stalkers are bad AA because they cost gas. Except you, that is."  Then you must not understand the game well, or spend much time reading the Battle.net forums.  Having a gas cost on a unit is a big difference vs one that does not, and Toss is already very gas heavy.   If I have to explain why it matters, you wouldn't understand it anyway. Btw they are not "bad" because they cost gas, they are bad because they lose for cost to all flying units.  The fact that they cost gas is only adding insult to injury.   The idea that you need "exact" cost is just silly, not sure what kind of logic you are trying to use but it's failing.   "    Every unit in the game is less effective without micro, actually. When you're buying a unit, you're not only paying only for damage and health, you know.    I don't know why you're so obssessed with comparing units based solely on their damage, health and cost. In SC II there are way too many factors in such equasion, and there is no possible way to state if one unit is better than the other. Every unit has its advantages and disadvantages. ""  Look up, thats my point going right over your head.   No, I don't expect you to understand.  But given the many other things you seem to not understand about SC2 I wouldn't worry about this one too much.    "

    You're talking about the lack of evidence, but the only evidence you've presented so far is a spread sheet (which is outdated, by the way). You've yet to present to me a single piece of information why protoss AA is bad, because the only things you're saying is that 'stalkers lose to every AA unit for cost' which is just simply and flat out wrong. 
     
    You think that units boil down to minerals and gas, but you've failed to notice that a stalker costs as much supply as a roach. You're talking about cost efficiency, but to you it's only minerals and gas, nothing else. 
    In your 'arguments' you're still neglecting to mention things such as micro, supply, larvae, build time, speed, range, or tech required to build a unit. 
     
    You want to prove to everyone that stalkers are better than roaches, but you are just talking much. You've just presented an outdated sheet and denied everything I've said so far. You still neglected to give an example of a single air unit beating a stalker 'for cost', yet you state it applies to all of them.
     
    You're stating that I'm the one who doesn't know the game, yet you just presented a theory and failed to deliver any evidence for it. You then claim that I'm the ignorant one because I didn't disprove your 'stalkers are bad AA' theory, the one which you haven't proven in the first place.
     
    If you're such a great player that I wouldn't be able to possibly comprehend your great SC II knowledge, at least link your profile. Mine is here.
     
    A future tip: if you want to present a theory, you are the one who has to prove it's real, yet you seem to think it's real from the get-go and I have to disprove it.
     
    If you want to continue or end this discussion, please refrain yourself from stating that 'I don't know the game' or 'everyone knows that' or 'you wouldn't understand anyway' or 'learn to play' or 'you clearly don't know the game', because these are not arguments. They are just used by people like you, because instead of saying 'oh yeah, I haven't thought about it that way' or 'yeah, I guess it is kinda true' it's easier for you to say 'you clearly don't understand, so your argument is invalid'.

    This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

    Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

    Comment and Save

    Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.