@Afroman269 said:

@Vigilance So are you suggesting hardware? That's hardly the case, both my 360 and PC copies have been running into annoying bugs and glitches. I barely ran into bugs when playing Fallout 3 but that doesn't mean I'm going to dismiss the people who had problems with their copies. There's plenty of evidence of fucked up instances in this game.

Speaking strictly of PC copies here, who knows what it could be?

I've heard the game was designed for Windows 7, so it could be XP, hardware, how much RAM, type of video card, etc etc.

All I know is, the problem isn't inherent with the game or the patch, because I installed the patch, and have seen no backward flying dragons, and the Dwarf Spheres in the dungeon I am in are resisting Soul Tap, which means their resistances are intact, and mine seem to be as well.

In short, the patch and/or game are not universally broken, which leads me to believe there's a hardware or software conflict somewhere. And this isn't unusual for PC games in my experience.

Just wanted to let you guys know that @Bethblog said on their Twitter feed that they will have an update on this issue (A write up) "very" soon (Probably later today, or tomorrow).

Hopefully they get this sorted out by Christmas!

@Vodun said:

@Deleth said:

@Vodun said:

@Delta_Ass said:

@Vodun said:

Hands up all those complaining about the bugs in this epic, mastodon of a game, who have actually worked with software development? Oh? Didn't think so.

Right, and movie critics should make movies before they write reviews. Sure making a lot of sense there.

No, never said that. But they should probably know how a movie is made...might help them in their profession.

They don't and it doesn't. They don't have to know about how a movie was made, since it absolutely doesn't matter at all. Only the finished product it what is important, since it is that what people are going to see at the cinema. Same goes for games.

Shrug, that's your opinion. I'm of the opinion that if you're going to talk shit about something...you should know what you're talking about.

Presumably they DO know. The product they purchased is in some way defective, here some serious buginess. I don't understand the logic at use in your argument, frankly. The process is immaterial, the final product is the only relevant data point because that was the exchange being offered (a certain sum in exchange for a given product). Critiques on the FINAL PRODUCT based on that exchange are then perfectly valid. Were I purchasing art concepts, scripts, previous build code then that might be a valid issue. I don't need to know what the farmers/ranchers/truck drivers/distributors/cooks/waiters/etc had to go through for my meal to be made. If it's messed up, the meal was ruined, PERIOD. I can be somewhat sympathetic to obvious issues (holiday press, offseason materials), but I would definitely expect a comp ASAP if sugar was mistaken for salt.

That said, if people are griping about Youtube videos and NOT hands on issues with jank, then they need to shut the eff up.

EDIT- For me personally, I haven't had anything too jarring, but I'm fairly permissive with open world jank. I just hate the (intentional or otherwise) goalpost moving of "never said that."

But piracy is to blame when people don't buy games day one...

GOTY

So I just installed the patch and the first thing that stood out to me is that there are very low textures on the dragons I have fought. Most of everything else looks like it did before,(PS3 version), other than that I have not noticed too much of a difference.

New update next week that will fix the issues:

"This week we released update 1.2 across all platforms, and we’ll be releasing an incremental update next week. We anticipate it will be up on PC first, and then hit PS3 and Xbox 360 later in the week. Among other things, the update will fix issues like magic resistance not calculating properly and the rare, amazing backwards flying dragon. Once the update is released, we’ll share the full release notes."

http://www.bethblog.com/index.php/2011/12/01/skyrim-what-were-working-on/

I give them credit for trying to sell the backwards dragon as a feature (rare and amazing!). Ha!

I actually turned off my network connection on my PC to play last night - to make sure that it didn't patch. What was amazing is that I gained about 5 fps running Steam in offline mode. Is this normal?! I might run in offline all the time!

On a side note, does anyone know how to check the version you are running? I went looking for it to double check that I didn't get patched, and couldn't find it anywhere.

@huser said:

Presumably they DO know. The product they purchased is in some way defective, here some serious buginess. I don't understand the logic at use in your argument, frankly. The process is immaterial, the final product is the only relevant data point because that was the exchange being offered (a certain sum in exchange for a given product). Critiques on the FINAL PRODUCT based on that exchange are then perfectly valid. Were I purchasing art concepts, scripts, previous build code then that might be a valid issue. I don't need to know what the farmers/ranchers/truck drivers/distributors/cooks/waiters/etc had to go through for my meal to be made. If it's messed up, the meal was ruined, PERIOD. I can be somewhat sympathetic to obvious issues (holiday press, offseason materials), but I would definitely expect a comp ASAP if sugar was mistaken for salt.

That said, if people are griping about Youtube videos and NOT hands on issues with jank, then they need to shut the eff up.

EDIT- For me personally, I haven't had anything too jarring, but I'm fairly permissive with open world jank. I just hate the (intentional or otherwise) goalpost moving of "never said that."

Yeah, and in your example you let the producer know about your problem. The equivalent here would be that you ate your salty dessert, thanked the staff for the great meal and then went home to blog about how awful the food was and that they clearly don't know what they're doing.

Like I pointed out, if you know the process involved in making these products you're less likely to complain about it in a pointless manner. You'll do something about it and report your issues to someone who can actually fix the errors. Telling others it's a shit game because you hear someone saw a backwards flying dragon is not very helpful.

JFC. You'd think they'd get a patch right for once.

Resistance bug is sort of game balance breaking. It makes me want to postpone finishing the game when I was all gung-ho to power my way through it for the next couple of days.

I even tried to block the patch through Steam, but it was a no-go.

@Dan_CiTi said:

Damn, well I have work to do anyway. I doubt I will be really getting much Skyrim in today anyway.

I was actually pretty happy about it fucking with my controller layout as well; it discouraged me from playing, which let me concentrate on OH DEAR GOD SO MANY EXAMS

@Vodun said:

Hands up all those complaining about the bugs in this epic, mastodon of a game, who have actually worked with software development? Oh? Didn't think so.

*raises hand* 15 years and counting.

I don't know Bethesda's specific process, but this seems like a massive breakdown of even basic quality control and testing. There's no excuse for such obvious bugs as these (downgraded textures, magic resistance) getting out the door, unless you need a serious testing overhaul.

@Vodun said:

Yeah, and in your example you let the producer know about your problem. The equivalent here would be that you ate your salty dessert, thanked the staff for the great meal and then went home to blog about how awful the food was and that they clearly don't know what they're doing.

Like I pointed out, if you know the process involved in making these products you're less likely to complain about it in a pointless manner. You'll do something about it and report your issues to someone who can actually fix the errors. Telling others it's a shit game because you hear someone saw a backwards flying dragon is not very helpful.

No I would let the staff know about the problem and expect to get something new right away. Otherwise I simply wouldn't pay since the product that I got was faulty. They're selling something to us and we have a right to expect it to work the way they promised it would. And we have every right to be annoyed and angry if it doesn't just as we can complain where, when and how much we want to.

And our complaints aren't supposed to be "helpful", they were already told about the problems. Our complaints are meant to let off steam and keep other people from buying the game untill it is fixed.

@Deleth said:

No I would let the staff know about the problem and expect to get something new right away. Otherwise I simply wouldn't pay since the product that I got was faulty. They're selling something to us and we have a right to expect it to work the way they promised it would. And we have every right to be annoyed and angry if it doesn't just as we can complain where, when and how much we want to.

And our complaints aren't supposed to be "helpful", they were already told about the problems. Our complaints are meant to let off steam and keep other people from buying the game untill it is fixed.

Well, that's your opinion again. Personally I feel it's more productive to let the developer know what issues I'm having than getting my bitch on in a pointless forum debate. But I guess you enjoy complaining more than actually playing a functioning game. Have fun with that.

@risseless said:

@Vodun said:

Hands up all those complaining about the bugs in this epic, mastodon of a game, who have actually worked with software development? Oh? Didn't think so.

*raises hand* 15 years and counting.

I don't know Bethesda's specific process, but this seems like a massive breakdown of even basic quality control and testing. There's no excuse for such obvious bugs as these (downgraded textures, magic resistance) getting out the door, unless you need a serious testing overhaul.

These latest bugs are an obvious sign of just testing the code you wrote and nothing else. They've had massive pressure to fix the problems of 1.0, and they didn't have time to do a full cycle of testing. If you've never been in a situation like that with 15 years of experience then I would really like to know where you work so I can apply there because it must be the fucking mecca of software companies.

@Vodun said:

@huser said:

Presumably they DO know. The product they purchased is in some way defective, here some serious buginess. I don't understand the logic at use in your argument, frankly. The process is immaterial, the final product is the only relevant data point because that was the exchange being offered (a certain sum in exchange for a given product). Critiques on the FINAL PRODUCT based on that exchange are then perfectly valid. Were I purchasing art concepts, scripts, previous build code then that might be a valid issue. I don't need to know what the farmers/ranchers/truck drivers/distributors/cooks/waiters/etc had to go through for my meal to be made. If it's messed up, the meal was ruined, PERIOD. I can be somewhat sympathetic to obvious issues (holiday press, offseason materials), but I would definitely expect a comp ASAP if sugar was mistaken for salt.

That said, if people are griping about Youtube videos and NOT hands on issues with jank, then they need to shut the eff up.

EDIT- For me personally, I haven't had anything too jarring, but I'm fairly permissive with open world jank. I just hate the (intentional or otherwise) goalpost moving of "never said that."

Yeah, and in your example you let the producer know about your problem. The equivalent here would be that you ate your salty dessert, thanked the staff for the great meal and then went home to blog about how awful the food was and that they clearly don't know what they're doing.

Like I pointed out, if you know the process involved in making these products you're less likely to complain about it in a pointless manner. You'll do something about it and report your issues to someone who can actually fix the errors. Telling others it's a shit game because you hear someone saw a backwards flying dragon is not very helpful.

Uh what? So then what exactly are people doing on Yelp or other restaurant reviews if not essentially going "home to blog about how awful the food was and that they clearly don't know what they're doing," assuming the meal went bad? Because trust me, if the meal is REALLY bad I'll let BOTH the "producers" as well as my fellow potential patrons in on the skinny.

This is essentially the basis for any crowdsourced recommendations. And if I can properly inform people and that unfortunately results in people holding off on a purchase (and spend less) until this game is properly functional then so be it.

And again, I stated this defense is only applicable for those who've actually bought and played the game not for those griping about Youtube videos.

@Vodun said:

These latest bugs are an obvious sign of just testing the code you wrote and nothing else. They've had massive pressure to fix the problems of 1.0, and they didn't have time to do a full cycle of testing.

As I said, a breakdown of testing and quality control. Being under pressure is no excuse for poor quality. If it wasn't ready, they shouldn't have released it -- that applies to both the retail game and the patch. But in this case, particularly the patch.

But as entertaining as your defense of poor software practices is, as well as your lawyer-like defense of Bethesda, there is nothing more pointless than arguing with strangers on the Internet. So since I've said my peace, I'm going to go play Skyrim -- at least for a hour or so before the game gets so choppy that it's unplayable. "But they were under pressure!"

@risseless: I'm not defending anyone, I'm looking at this realistically. Unless you of course think Betheseda release buggy fixes out of spite...

Either way, saying your "peace" on an internet forum will not change this reality. Neither will playing it for an hour until it gets choppy and then just giving up on it. Actually letting the developer know what's wrong with your game will change it.

But hey, it's more fun getting your whine on. Because if there's anything your 15 years of experience has taught you; there's nothing more fun for the dev team to see than 15 000 comments complaining about crashes of your product, but not a single tech support request.

@Vodun said:

@risseless: I'm not defending anyone, I'm looking at this realistically. Unless you of course think Betheseda release buggy fixes out of spite...

Either way, saying your "peace" on an internet forum will not change this reality. Neither will playing it for an hour until it gets choppy and then just giving up on it. Actually letting the developer know what's wrong with your game will change it.

But hey, it's more fun getting your whine on. Because if there's anything your 15 years of experience has taught you; there's nothing more fun for the dev team to see than 15 000 comments complaining about crashes of your product, but not a single tech support request.

Lets bitch about the bitching! Nice work.

Most of the bugs SHOULD have been caught before hand. The patch that was suppose to provide improvements(but ironically didn't) should have been pulled from XBL immediately(ESPECIALLY given the two day gap in between) Its lazy. Will I play Skyrim, hell yea. But my faith in Bethesda as a studio is shot.

I have yet to encouter any backward dragons. Pluss my lag is comepletly gone, so I'm happy with the patch.

@SuperJoe: The smartest man who ever lived haha.

Fuckaduck, I didn't know SpeedDragon had a REVERSE tickbox. Must be SpeedDragon Pro.

I'm still playing Fallout New Vegas, and enjoying the ever present spectre of game breaking bugs in that hot Beth-tech property. Here I was thinking "obsidious" was just a clever portmanteau, but turns out it's an actual, relevant word.

Is it next week yet?

That is weird I'm on the 360 and that magic resistance thing still works normally for me but the backwards dragon thing and "frozen" dragons are practically everywhere takes the fun out of fighting dragons.

SuperJoeon Nov. 30, 2011 at 11:22 a.m. A problem solved is a problem caused. -- Karl Pilkington More people need to quote Karl Pilkington's words of wisdom! And this quote is spot on!