Level 30 grind has not been kind to me. in the past 3-4 days, i've done the challenge and dailies and spent a fair amount of time in the DZ. i've come away with only 1-2 pieces of "good" loot and even those require a full rebalance of my current loadout to be useful. i just feel like i'm hitting a wall while other people are able to absolutely steamroll me at will in the dark zone. I plan to check out the incursion and the stuff in the patch next week to see if it makes the game "fun" again but as of right now, i think i'm done. Destiny is getting a big patch too next week so maybe i'll pick that back up for my "always online loot shooter" fix. i really hoped i would stick with this game longer but it's just not fun for people like me at the level cap. I've definitely gotten my money's worth out of it clocking well over 100 hours of play but i think it's time for me to go. Good luck agents. I hope it's more kind to you than it has been to me.

Yeah, I've since halted my time playing The Division for the time being. I'll definitely want to get around to checking out the Incursions (though they'll probably hafta wait given everything else that's coming out this month), but even then I wonder if there's anything that could hold my attention for much longer besides a few quick dallies to see what's new. I'm not likely to get the season pass either, since I've exclusively played the game on my own (or with randoms) and I don't want to drop down some cash on a bundle that's almost as expensive as the full game because of that.

Oh well, even if the end may be near for me and The Division I had a lot of fun with it all the same and found that it was well worth the money.

"but as of right now, i think i'm done."

No point in forcing it. If you're even thinking this stuff you shouldn't be playing a game. In my opinion check it out again later after patches or major content updates for example, but for now you should probs move on to something else.

I think that next week's patch is supposed to be adding gear level banding to DZ matchmaking so I'm sort of hoping that that will make pvp a little less punishing? Then again, the changes they've made to crafting might decimate the player base so much that it doesn't make that much difference....

Not to hijack this thread, but I've been seriously considering Destiny, would you recommend it for a brand new player? It's on sale on PS4 right now, and although I really thought it didn't appeal to me, I've had such a good time with the Division that I think it might actually be something I might like. My main worries are whether I'd have to put too much time into it to catch up, and also that a big part of my enjoyment of The Division has been down to being able to matchmake easily into missions, which I believe Destiny doesn't have? I don't have a very deep friends list and I've never been that successful in connecting with people on here for that sort of stuff.

Well, are you 'in a group' when you go into the DZ? It sounds like you are flying solo and in that cases removing 1-2 pieces of useful stuff is pretty damn good. But, even so, once you are lvl 30 there might not be a reason to return until the new content falls. But if you are at lvl 30 you are that rare 41% of owner of the game.

Yea, Im just about done too. It was a blast while it lasted but I almost have every slot filled with something gold and Im just getting burnt out on the game and waiting for a new multiplayer game to come out. Im really hoping Overwatch turns out to be good.

@monkeyking1969:Pretty sure he's talking about the grind at 30, and yeah 2 pieces at 30 is pretty good considering you only have 9 slots, but that's only if those are best in class type pieces. I would be pretty upset if I spent 4 days to only get 2 items that weren't even optimally rolled, and that sounds like where he's at and in which case I really understand that frustration. I find myself pretty frustrated if I don't make progress on at least one item slot per play session or like the last time I played filling out all of my Armor Upgrade slots with 1.5 Crit Firearm and Stamina mods to put my build where I wanted it. You never want to feel like you spent an entire week and didn't move forward at all in a game like this.

@thomasnash: DZ level gating seems like it will only help the really undergeared players. My understanding is 160 is roughly half of your items of iLevel 31 Superiors or above, and that can easily be obtained in the DZ after about an hour. Now if they add another gate, say around the 190 mark (or whatever gates off players having all current iLevel 31 High End gear), then I could see that being a huge help in segmenting the new players from the casuals, and the casuals from the hardcore. As far as Destiny goes, I put 2,000 hours into that game so it would be hard for me to not recommend it to you even if I'm not happy with everything they are doing with this new content release and the things they are just blatantly ignoring for the past 5 months now. For your question about catching up, it's about to honestly be the easiest it's ever been to get caught up to max level in Destiny as ever before. Other than maxing out an Exotic collection since you will be starting from scratch, you will easily be able to obtain the exact same progress as myself, who has 2,000 hours into it, in easily under 100. Buying the Taken King will automatically let you level a character to 25 of 40. The rest of the way to 40 should take you between 5-10 hours. Then focus on your preferred sub class until it is maxed and then focus on the next until all 3 are done, all while doing different activities in the game. You should be able to easily get up to around the 320 (current max level) pretty quickly since so many activities will drop 320 and 335 gear. Most activities in Destiny can be Matchmade outside of Story Missions (easy so no need), Nightfalls, Raids, Trials, and the new PoE Challenge Mode. Anything else already has matchmaking. Feel free to check out our Destiny/Division 100.io if you want to use that tool to group up with other users for those events I specified if you get Destiny. You can also set your events to Public and it will allow any users including non Giantbomb people to join your events in case nobody signs up. Hope this helps.

Ye, this game is definitely pretty big for an RPG, very small for an MMO (Destiny had the same issues for me: I'm comparing it to WoW and asking how many dungeons and raids it has, how many hours of solo content it has for you before you even touch stuff aimed at grouping, stuff other than PvP focus/deathmatch - WoW is the yardstick and so far all these games that are riffing on MMOs but with shooter mechanics are tiny in comparison). So why push it. Not everything can be Diablo, something you turn your brain off to endlessly grind out.

I go in when I've got a spare 30 mins and do my daily Challenging mission with some randos (organising a time to play with friends is more commitment than I want right now) for those 50 Phoenix credits, random purples to junk, and at least 1 yellow each day. I keep my eyes open for the news of new content and big changes that might make me want to play more. But for now that 70 hours I've put in is the meat. That's more than I think I've given any previous Ubisoft open world game. I'm pretty impressed (I'd be more impressed if the DZ at level cap was as interesting as the DZ while levelling and able to solo explore a bit but PvP means grouping is highly advised and the PvE in there at 30 also kinda enforces grouping or super-hard mode compared to challenging missions).

Give it a break, see if the Gear Sets stuff that's coming will make the path to better than ilvl31 purples/ilvl30-31 yellows more interesting or varied. See how the Hard Incursion is (hopefully the Challenging tier means the Hard mode is actually viable for competent randos who know the strats that the more dedicated players will discover really quickly) when that arrives. But don't push it, 100 hours is quite a lot of time.

@hestilllives19: 160 is the gear level gate for the incursions isn't it? I sort of assumed that the matchmaking side of it would be a bit more fluid - eg it starts by trying to match you into an instance withing 5 levels of your gear level, then 10, then 15 or something, so that you should always be somewhere near to equal with people you're playing with. That would make a lot more sense to me than hard bands (0-50, 50-100 or whatever). Maybe they can't be that fluid because of the seamless nature of entering the DZ. Also I suppose to some extent it depends how high the gear levels go because if 160 is only having half gold gear than all the levels up to 160 are basically meaningless, I suppose.

Thanks for that run down on Destiny, a lot of food for thought.

As soon as I hit the max level I was like "grind dailies? Fuck that."

I did the same with Destiny too, just not my speed.

@thomasnash: From the patch notes on DZ rank changes to gear requirements from the vendors (GearScore is the average score of the best equipment you can wear when considering everything you're wearing and can equip from backpack):

Gear Score 163: High-End (yellow) ilvl 30. [now need DZ lvl25 to buy/equip]

Gear Score 182: High-End ilvl 31. [now need DZ lvl40 to buy/equip]

So we also know there are DZ lvl75 and even DZ lvl90 requirement items coming (so two tiers above ilvl31 yellows so we may guess if one or both of those are for Gear Set items [Hard and Challenging Drops which I'm guessing are ilvl31 and ilvl32] with corresponding higher Gear Scores).

We also have confirmation that ilvl32 items are coming (but, of course, all this talk if item levels is going away as everything is going to be ranked by Gear Score after the patch - it's just that for now we only have concepts of rarity tiers and corresponding item level; in the patch we'll see how that works out for Gear Scores for every item). Those will presumably be Gear Score 201 (assuming linear based on the ones above) and the result of the new race (ie grindfest for people who want to spend 4 hours a day to get the very best loot despite nothing in the game really requiring it) for the best gear possible in the game.

So an average score of 160 sounds like full yellow but no end-game or a mix of mainly yellow (non-end-game) with some purples slotted below and some end-game (ilvl31) yellows to push the average up. Plus the new end-game gear will give you a boost (ilvl32) but I don't know if we know where that'll be coming from yet (presumably some of the blueprints again - we've been told 2 new named weapons drop with this patch and a 3rd drops with the 1.2 patch coming soon [it'll be in the data files to be mined in this patch]).

The current Incursion marker says Gear Score 150 but that looks to be the Hard mode soft-cap (as in you don't require 150 to try it but you are strongly recommended to get that before even thinking about grouping up for it) and I don't think we know the hard-cap (as in no Gear Score, no ability to select the difficulty) Challenging mode incursion. I'd guess it would be maybe 175 or 180? People who have all end-game yellows can skip straight to the Challenging mode without getting the new Gear Set from the Hard mode and other activities* (or getting some lucky ilvl32 drops) first? That would seem like a perk you'd not be overly keen to give away but isn't unreasonable.

* Gear Sets: not just loot from the incursion. It comes from all sorts of activities/drops/crafting (but the incursion seems like it'll be a reliable place for at least some drops - think it sounds like some items in sets drop from specific event types so you'll maybe be able to get 3 of the 6 pieces of a set from drop in incursions but only the chest/kneepads/gloves there and other gear slots are from other activity types).

I feel the same way as of right now. Once I hit 30, the Dark Zone ceased being fun. Even in groups, I've gotten absolutely demolished by everyone I've tried to fight. And all these people know they can go rogue and kill everyone without a problem because they are completely geared out. It's very frustrating for someone like me who just wants to go in, have fun, and try to get some better gear. I don't really know how to reliably get the best stuff in the game to even stand a chance against others, so I'm pretty much done until everything is rebalanced.

Really the easiest way to get high end gear is to craft it. Blueprints for item level 31 gear are at the special vendor next to the recalibration station and the special dark zone vendor in DZ06, costing about 90-120 Phoenix Credits each. The dark zone vendor unfortunately requires a serious dark zone rank grind to make items purchasable.

Drop rates for high end items feel incredibly low, and with random rolls, items can end up unappealing even if you do find one.

With the scarcity of the loot, I ended up crafting all my high end gear. The daily challenging mission reward is only item level 30 high end gear. Which kind of defeats the purpose of the reward.

I think the game unfortunately points players toward the daily challenging mission after they beat the final mission. My experience is that they too under-geared and and uninitiated to the way you have to play them. With better gear the mission is way more manageable. Very chicken and egg.

I think I lasted about 5 days after hitting 30 before I burned out. Every time I logged in I just kept asking the same question: why am I doing this? I've done all these missions before, the enemies are just more numerous and spongier. I guess I'm supposed to be going after better loot, but for what? To get an M1A that is yellow instead of purple? That has exciting perks attached to it such as "do more damage" and "shoot better". What will that let me do, grind the same missions, slightly more efficiently? Or go to the Dark Zone and engage with the sub-par PvP mechanics? Or perhaps gear up for the incursion where the final enemy is likely a tank you have to pump bullets into for half an hour.

I don't regret my purchase at all, by the time I got to the level cap I had spent about 30 hours with the game. There was enough progression and interesting environments to marvel at while getting there that I was engaged for all of it. It's just once you hit 30 the game makes itself readily apparent that it had shown its entire hand to you in the first few hours, with nothing else to give. I doubt the Incursion is going to be all that interesting from what they've been saying.

Between the crafting nerf and box hunting, it is increasing my disinterest with the game and Dark Zone due to grinding DZ levels and constant dying to players. The next patch might as well be an year too late for me. Even after the patch, the changes to the Dark Zone is definitely making me want no part of it with the cutthroat race to the supply drops every hour and new blueprints/items at DZ level 75 and 90. It was pain as it is to get 50, I really do not want to level another 25-40 levels with the patch up especially with hackers still out there.

At most, I'll check out Operations/Incursions and the assignments and hope it be enough that I still get some sort of item progression without entering the hell hole the Dark Zone will most likely become.

I used to play it daily to the phoenix missions and craft stuff. For the longest time I found it super fun to simply take on missions with a team of random doods online. Then I dunno, I got Hyper Light Drifter and started getting into that and now I think I've just moved on. After I finish Hyper Light I'll probably get into another game and don't see myself really going back to the Division. Had a ton of fun and got more than my moneys worth, but it's time to experience new stuff rather than grinding the same mission for the 100th time just for a chance to get a slightly better gun you already own.

"but it's time to experience new stuff rather than grinding the same mission for the 100th time just for a chance to get a slightly better gun you already own."

Yes. Some people enjoy that I'm sure, but man, sometimes taking two steps back looking at what you're actually doing, and for what in return, isn't such a bad idea.

This. Very, very this.

I think it'd be a good time to go back when the update hits next week since they add more activities other than the Incursions such as the DZ supply drops and assignments and they also have gear brackets so you don't end up in a server against guys who are more geared.

So I'm still enjoying the game a lot, but I think I've hit my limit, too: Earlier today I found an audiolog where someone calls urban exploration "urbexing."

If it's the one I'm thinking of, that story has a "satisfying" ending.

I think I have hit my limit as well. And I am only level 8. The game just isn't gripping me in any meaningful way. I am going to keep playing a little bit every day just to see if it gets better. After all, it took Destiny a while to get its hooks into me.

Unless I have at least one other person in a party with me, I stay the hell away from the dark zone. It just turn into a contest between other groups of players to see who can mow me down first. I have much better gear than I used to, but that doesn't matter: I still get sat down if I go in there by myself. Mostly I just do the daily hard missions now and call it a day. For whatever reason, I've been getting good drops on the "Police Academy" mission. During the last part of the level When you're leaving and a whole bunch of LMB soldiers breach the door outside, the enemies tend to drop better loot for some reason. Not many "Golds" to be honest, but it seems to rain purples instead during that last bit of the level. I thought it was due to wearing gear that had a "scavenging" bonus, but even without it the rate seemed pretty good.

Random "tips" aside, I'm sorry to hear that you aren't seeing much reason to go on OP. I understand it though. There isn't so much a drop-off to the end game as there just being a brick wall there. You either hit the DZ and run in circles farming the named enemies or you just do the dailies. Not exactly a perfect endgame. I will give Ubisoft Massive credit for keeping us up to date on patch notes and working so quickly to address bugs though. I know it's easy to mock, but the developers here seem better prepared to patch than Bungie was with Destiny.