Oh man, I really enjoyed reading this thread. I'm pretty new to giant bomb, and this seemed like a winner to me.

Call me paranoid but I am not getting an Xbox One until they examined every bit coming out of it.

This thread is so entertaining. If I actually thought someone was watching and listening to my every move through my devices, which is a clinical definition of insanity, I STILL wouldn't give a shit because I'm not doing anything of significance to anyone.

Kinect discussions are becoming the Fox News of the internet.

Put a sock on it. Literally, just stick the Kinect into a sports sock and turn it off in the system settings. You shouldn't have to worry about a thing. Now I agree that it is ridiculous that you have to do that sort of stuff to "make sure", but Microsoft needs to have the Kinect always connected to get any sort of developer support for it.

And if I can't just yell "Xbox pizza" while playing a game and have a dude deliver one to my door 30 minutes later Microsoft have screwed up.

Who said watching and listening to your every move? It's metadata. They can sell it to advertisers and the government seems to just be allowed to collect it and hold onto it. The birth and growth of metadata came so fast that the proper regulations weren't put in place and right now, 2013, it's just starting to become evident how badly big data can be abused without any repercussions.

Thanks for calling me, someone who is concerned with my privacy, clinically insane. We probably should just allow anything to happen with internet connected camera devices. Corporations definitely have proven they have our best interests in mind...

If you are afraid of the Kinect spying on you please flash your phone down the toilet and don't go out to any place with security cameras.

Such a dumb argument...Lazy really

@mcderby4: Yeah I can't quite figure out why people think a camera that they dance in front of in their living room is going to steal any more information from them than a phone/camera/email device that they carry with them everywhere they go.

Not as lazy as your rebuttal. Can you explain why you think it's a dumb argument?

If you think it's out of line to suggest that your phone has the same (arguably more) access to your private information could you at least explain why?

People seem to be really misinformed about what the government's spying program actually does.

Genuinely curious – what kind of metadata are we afraid this thing is capturing?

It is really weird how metadata has suddenly become a term that is thrown around on radio and on TV. I didn't think anyone without a technical background even knew what it meant.

Anyway, I guess I don't know enough about what the Kinect can actually glean from watching you to know what sort of metadata it can even log. Is it stuff like how often I have company? Can it recognize brands for advertising-related data-mining? How often I swear? Whether I discuss topics of a politically charged nature? Or is it even smart enough to recognize any of that? Furthermore, does Microsoft even care enough to gather any of that? The government might be able to ask them to hand over metadata, but I doubt they could force Microsoft to include algorithms to actively spy if they didn't want to, or else every web cam and phone would be doing this already.

I'm not worried about a video or audio feed going out, because there's no way anyone's going to pay to store that data or pay for the bandwidth of that much data, and it would be absurdly expensive to actually pay anyone to go through video surveillance footage of every person's living room.

@spraynardtatum: What is your doomsday scenario for how this so-called metadata will impact your life? Advertisers will target content towards your interests? Google already seems to do that pretty effectively.

It's not about more or less. Is there any other argument other than complacency?

Here are some links to reasons why, since you make no effort to read my posts or do any research at all, the device or metadata gathering in general could potentially be dangerous.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/27/4370676/microsoft-kinect-tv-monitoring-achievements-ads

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-11/07/microsoft-patent-snooping

http://readwrite.com/2012/06/13/feeling-blue-kinect-may-have-an-offer-you-cant-refuse#awesm=~o9TkmsWHfzEWG3

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2012/06/kinect-to-detect-emotions-and-serve-up-corresponding-ads/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2275318/apple-facebook-and-microsoft-get-tens-of-thousands-of-prism-requests

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/06/nsa-fact-sheet-prism-disappears

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/25/nsa-fisa-fact-sheet_n_3499026.html

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/06/17/government_distorts_facts_on_nsa_targeting_americans_for_surveillance.html

and plenty more where that came from.

I personally think it should be an optional thing but i know MS is baking it into the x1 experience. I would say a simple solution would be to just add a kill switch to really turn the thing off. When you boot the system it will than ask you to turn on kinect. They may even have that already set up so we will see.

If you're so concerned about the Kinect spying on you, you could just, um, not buy one.

@marvinpontiac: If we are looking at the screen, purchasing patterns, what we own, what brands we use and talk about, emotional state when playing video games, emotional state when watching tv, emotional state when watching advertisements, emotional state before we change channels, search options, do we like products, how many friends do you have, how many friends don't have live accounts, how many friends visit your home, how many friends live in other states or countries, how often are you playing video games, how often are you at home, when are you home, financial information, private conversations on skype, private conversations in my home with friends and family. There really is no limit. if something is being done in the general proximity of the device and someone could benefit from more consumer knowledge it could be accomplished if accepted.

The privacy settings and the Terms of Use are all I want to see. I need to be able to turn off all advertiser cookies and apps like Facebook, Skype, Google, etc can be removed completely from the system before I'll even consider it. I shouldn't have to have any tracking cookies of any kind.

I know that the Kinect may be the least of our worries regarding this stuff but that doesn't make it any less susceptible. I'm not willing to give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt. From now on I'm not purchasing smart tech devices from American companies until I see a focused aim in removing some of these marketing and surveillance strategies. I think it's invasive and leads people towards a scary future if things aren't balanced and fair.

Done and done.

@spraynardtatum:

I'm not accepting this. I'm just questioning why people surround themselves with all these devices and services but then draw a hard line at Kinect?

It's like I'm eating a Whopper and then some guy eating a Big Mac walks up to me and says "Ew, how can you eat that processed garbage?".

Well it wasn't until about a month ago that PRISM was uncovered. That's why I'm so concerned. These companies have been doing things that I had ignored until it was shoved in my face. I didn't mean to sound like I was attacking, sorry if I did. There are ways that you can traverse the internet and use smart phones without leaving such a huge digital footprint but unfortunately Microsoft products do not fall in that category. If anything, Microsoft is the most invasive behind Google.

@spraynardtatum: So I should be worried that the Kinect could potentially register my emotions when I'm playing a game? Alrighty then... Seriously, the amount of pessimism in here is kind of funny. There are a lot worse things to worry about then some petty camera. It's unfortunate as all this negativity multiplied exponentially due to this NSA nonsense.

@mcderby4: You think it's nonsense?

There's a huge difference between tracking user action (what they play / watch / user-supplied profile info), and actually collecting the video data of the user sitting in a chair. I can see why they would do the first thing (because every social platform tracks these things), but not the second.

In the first case (where they're actually capturing data they can use), a Kinect is not required. They can track what you watch / click on / are interested in via the box, because it is connected, just like any modern device, and is the actual platform where these user actions are made - the kinect just tracks movement / captures video. I don't see how capturing video of someone sitting in their bedroom provides them with any metadata.

People may see a connected camera and think it's watching them, when the real question is "why would someone want to watch you?" It would cost an insane amount of money & infrastructure to capture / archive / monitor all this video data. Most high-speed connections couldn't even upload this data at a rate that would let them also play online games.

PRISM is a thing. But they get their data much easier than watching hours of chair-video in real time. They get data / interactions that are offered up by the user when they use these web services.

Indeed I do and increasingly so as each day passes. I already stated that I have no interest in the Kinect but I'm not afraid or worried about it. You want to "supposedly" capture my emotions or whatever it does while I'm gaming? Knock yourself out. You want to spy on my conversations that I have on my smartphone? Have fun sifting through the discrepancy.

I think a "doomsday" scenario is advertisers getting metrics on the "engaged" portion of Kinect's tracking.

Say you've got one of those 30 second video ads that plays before you can watch your content. And say Kinect will automatically pause that ad if you get up or even look away. You don't get to proceed until you've watched the whole thing. There's not an ad company I can think of that wouldn't pay to have users guaranteed to watch their ad - especially if a third party (Microsoft) takes the blame for hosting the capability.

End of the world? Hell, no. But given how much MS loves selling ad space with the current gen, I can certainly see the potential for ads getting yet more annoying with a forced Kinect that can monitor emotions and interest.

@spraynardtatum: I think your taking it to a extreme and making up stuff that will never happen. And why the hell do you care if you are not even getting one? Nearly all your posts are some kids tinfoil hat outcome where big brother is watching. .

The Kinect can watch me jerk it for all I care. If it ever comes out, I'll sue the pants off Microsoft. It will inevitably happen too. Just you wait and see.

Currently, it's of no import to me anyways. Sony has made the much better pitch, and it's in Sony's basket that I'll put all my new generation eggs. I've got the PS4 preordered, and I've already invested in a PS Vita as a companion device and subbed to PS+. It's quite the overwhelming entrée! Games games games!

Cool. Enjoy the slow erosion of freedom and privacy. You're the perfect specimen and lab rat!

The problem isn't that I think that MS wants video of me in my underwear playing Halo at 2 am. The problem is that Kinect will be able to read your heartbeat, pulse, and the expression on your face, and that data would be worth a fortune to MS if they can pair it with specific moments in games, television shows, and commercials.

I can absolutely see MS allowing people to opt-out of the data collection, but that's still a creepy amount of info for a game console to be able to collect. Personally, if I ever buy an Xbox One, it's quite likely that my Kinect sensor will be facing a wall the vast majority of the time.

I'm basing my opinion off of patents that Microsoft has filed and the recent discovery of PRISM. Have you heard about PRISM? America is doing blanket surveillance on the entire world including their own citizens. Other countries aren't happy and are offended and rightfully so. Russia and China both denied the US from apprehending Snowden in their countries just two days ago and mocked us for asking. It's probably the biggest abuse of power since Watergate. Democrats and Republicans alike are uniting against it. Even Mick Jagger:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/reliable-source/wp/2013/06/25/mick-jaggers-shout-out-to-president-obama-and-nsa/

Like I said. This is the worst possible time for the Kinect 2.0 to be released.

@burningstickman: Definitely one of the only well thought out posts for how advertisers could eventually use a camera in a negative way. Although I think the forced viewing of ads is extremely unlikely (outside of maybe Hulu plus). Cable companies/advertisers need to prioritize figuring out what to do about DVRs first, as I haven't had to watch any ads in years.

You must be willfully ignorant if you believe you have any sort of freedom on the internet or through technology. Everything you do on the internet can be tracked effortlessly, every website you visit. The credit cards, debit cards, gift cards you use. The apps, texts or email you sift through on your smartphone. The channels you flip on your cable or satellite tv. It's all registered and calculated.

Moral of the story is, they don't give a shit.

Have you read anything I've posted? I KNOW!? That's the problem.

The only difference is, I'm not excessively and unnecessarily pessimistic about the entire situation. Honestly mate, it's not worth stressing about. Let's look at it this way. They have the ability to monitor ANYTHING you do but would they really? Considering Canada(where I live) and the United States, it makes up what, nearly 350 million people. If you honestly believe that they have the manpower or the patience to sift through all the traffic cycling through the various technological outlets then I'd say you're overreacting a little bit.

There's no doubt in my mind that they can and will record some things, that's a given with phone conversations and a lot of companies with support lines state as much. But there's not a chance in hell that they're sitting through every bloody thing. That's the difference.

Take it as you will bro, that's all I have to say. Besides that, I don't see a reason to argue.

I've been shocked over the lack of outrage of the prism phone listening thing. After I saw the news I would have pictured people throwing their phones into a lake or something, but no. People are so hooked into their smartphones that they will not give them up even if that means the government is listening. I can easily see now gamers doing a similar thing, bitching about being spied on, but buy the product anyway. How many people will not buy an xbone cause of kinect spying on them, my guess a very small amount. How many will bitch and moan from now to launch about it, tons.

I have a similar stance on both, you want to waste your time listening to my phone conversations go ahead. You want to watch me playing games in my underwear go ahead.

@thepickle said:

This exactly.

@darthorange said:

@spraynardtatum:

you realize every communication line across the atlantic and pacific have been tapped and monitored by the US, Russia, China, Britain and probably a bunch of other countries for the past 60 years right?

did you delete your facebook and stop using google too?

these links are a great start for some of the people in this thread.

deleting facebook and not using google are pretty reasonable things to do.. there are other steps that can be taken, but what needs to happen is the same as what has been happening with monsanto. people need the information, and they need to wake up to what is going on . if after the information is out there, and people decide they want to be slaves without freedom or privacy, just so they can have a false sense of security .. then so be it. please do research and try to understand the bigger picture and the direction we are going. try to have a little bit of foresight.

If you listen to Microsoft Kinect is already an option for the Xbox One since they said it can be turned off in some capacity and you don't have to use it you if you don't want to even though it seemingly has to at least be plugged in or whatever the deal is.

So they're effectively raising the price of the console by 100$ for everyone for something that is optional.

But it's OK because i can look over to the next shelf come November and pick up a PS4 for 100$ less.

You can't though, unless you plan on unplugging your Xbox One as well. I'm pretty sure I remember Microsoft stating that it is mandatory for the Kinect to be hooked up to the console at all times, though they did "concede" to consumers the ability to turn the stupid thing off at a system level. If they could do that, I don't know why they force it to have to be connected or, for that matter, force you to have to have the damn thing.

$399 PS4 vs $399 XB1 w/o Kinect would be an interesting race, especially with MS back-pedalling on all the DRM and always-online stuff. For my money though, I will be probably be going PS4 online this gen as opposed to the [still] current gen in which I owned all 3 consoles.

I must be hard wired differently because I don't see why everyone is so worried about kinect from a privacy stand point. Don't get me wrong, I have huge hesitations about the Xbox One specifically due to the kinect from a functionality point of view (Don't want to spend $100 more to buy a janky camera) but not a privacy one.

I mean I have a build in webcam and microphone on my laptop, how is that any different from the kinect? Xbox One doesn't even require an always online connection, and you must have no idea how to handle electronics if you can't take 30 sec to turn off the camera/microphone options in the settings.

Again, the functionality of the kinect and how well it works is the big question for me; not some paranoid fear of big brother. If the governments wants to monitor me, there is literally hundreds of more efficient way of doing it rather than tapping into my kinect. I really do wish that kinect works well this time around, the voice recognition stuff and some of the facial recognition tech they are talking about can be legitimately cool for some games and general usage (not sure if its worth $100 more but we shall see in November).

there is a reason it has to be plugged in right? is it so their cool new futuristic hand waving gestures work, because theres no way they can without it being plugged in ALL THE TIME?

Its to late. They all ready know to much.

http://wearedata.watchdogs.com/

Three things:

1) It seems like 90% of the people who want Kinects are talking about the voice commands. And, that could be done with two microphones with no needs for cameras, IRs shooting curtains of rays, or anything else. Voice commands for the systems would cost very little and probably would not get under peoples skin about being always on.

2) Although Microsoft does not want to spy on you...expect what you play, when you play it, how long you play it, and how much you view their store and how many seconds you view one game or another game...and. Okay, Microsoft does what to spy on you just like Amazon.com or Google does. But that aside even if Microsoft doesn't want to see you in your underwear THAT IS THE FIRST THING a hacker will try to figure out.

3) Microsoft has so much ill will they have created that the Xbox One will have very hack-tivist taking a crack at it. People will want to see what is in the three operating systems. People will be looking for chinks in the armor between how the three operating system communicate. And, people will especially want to figure out how to subvert the Kinect and the DRM. Since Microsoft has taken a sharp left turn on how DRM is used by the system hackers will be extremely interest in any backdoors that have not been covered up as well as they should have been covered.

There is no way to know, but the hack-tivist community will be going at Xbox One with hammer and tongs. Just for being the most visible and the most disliked target makes it is a good candidate for being deeply investigated by peopel looking to find holes and make MS looks foolish.

As someone with no interest in Kinect games, it'd be a bummer that I'm essentially paying $100(ish) extra dollars for a mandatory piece of equipment I'll never use.

I don't think it will actually dissuade many people from buying the system though. If they want an Xbox, they'll drop that extra hundo no problem. And most of the people "paranoid" of the Kinect weren't in Xbox's camp to begin with.

@superkenon: I bought an Xbox for Halo 2 and I bought a 360 at launch. I always enjoyed playing those systems. I'm completely against the Kinect 2.0 and Microsofts involvement with the NSA. Now that we finally have that knowledge I am parting ways with 1/3 of the next generation. I am not buying a Bone. I'm not paranoid that they're going to be watching me through the camera but they do want all the metadata they can get. I am just distancing myself from a company that is doing something that highly offends me.

With the Reversal of the Always On-DRM i don't see what there is to complain about. If you don't want the Kinect watching you all the time then just unplug the xbox from the internet(or cover it with a box as others have recommended).

Then stop posting about it? And ya your paranoid. every thing you have said about this topic has made you sound it.