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Giant Bomb News

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Area Man Visits Largish Website, Chuckles

A new installment of business and engineering updates from Dave.

On this episode of Building a Bomb, Dave shaves his hobo beard.
On this episode of Building a Bomb, Dave shaves his hobo beard.

You know, it's a funny thing trying to run largish web sites these days. To be honest it's weird just saying the word largish, but that's what Whiskey Media is certainly creeping towards. That's not to say it's REALLY BIG, or HUGE, but it's definitely better than we expected. There is no lack of giddy nostalgia when I look back on how I ended up at what became Whiskey Media--walking into Jeff's house in Petaluma, Mel's Diner for breakfast with Shelby, or farther back to a know-it-all kid that dropped out of college because he was spending too much time building websites. I certainly didn't think this was possible. This silly website, where a group of editors often huddle around a red phone waiting for you to call a number and make the red light blink--in much the same way you guys wait for a new something to pop up on the homepage. No, I certainly didn't see that coming.

It hasn't all been sunshine though. On the business end of the sites we argue like opinionated parents about what you, the collective group of users, want to see and what services we can provide. Should we tell you everything? What if we tell you something that freaks you out so much you run away and never come back? God forbid, what if one of you runs away and gets some girl pregnant. You get the point. There are lots of fights about you. Almost like parents, we try to make the best decisions we can to build a business that's healthy and sustainable and we try not to make too many mistakes along the way. While we have made some mistakes and unpopular decisions, we've always tried to be extremely honest and up front about them and the reasons we made them. A biz dude might even say we've been transparent. Uggh.

Continuing that transparency I'm announcing two fairly major things we're launching on the engineering / business side of the sites that will go into effect for everyone who isn't a premium member later today.

  1. We've partnered with Meebo to deliver their IM chat bar across our sites. This helps us sell high-value advertising that frankly, we have no internal infrastructure to do ourselves. They've been really easy to work with and it fills a gap in our company. As an honest tech company, they've made it easy to hide the bar if you don't like it.
  2. Over the next couple weeks we'll be switching the video player that anyone who isn't a premium member sees to YouTube. This will save us some money on bandwidth and let us take advantage of YouTube's ad sales network, but most importantly it will increase our visibility on YouTube and introduce more people to our sites.

We're excited about both of these changes. I can tell you that one of our main goals for the next couple of years is exposing a larger audience to our unique brand of content. I think we're going to bring a lot of new users to the sites through YouTube, Boxee and Roku that may not have heard of us. The bandwidth off-load for our increasingly mis-named, hour-long Quick Looks is nothing to sneeze at either, but really that's just a secondary win for what continues to be a frugal, growing business. We made both of these deals to help grow Whiskey larger.

Again, if you're a premium member (monthly or yearly), neither of these things will affect you, unless you want them to. They're optional features you can turn on or off as you please in your profile settings page. You can assume this is all a planned attempt to force you into finally subscribing, but our primary motive is to help us grow our largish sites into even largish-er sites.

And that's the funny thing about running largish websites, they always feel small no matter how big they get. We might need a second big red phone next year.

Dave Snider on Google+

596 Comments

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siblers

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Edited By siblers

Hey Dave, how the hell do you do Loops in Just Basic? Thanks

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Fuga

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Edited By Fuga

fuck meebo though

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Osaladin

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Edited By Osaladin

@KoolAid said:

@Miketorreza said:

@louiedog: They're being greedy. Again. And I don't want to support them after they deprive non paying users from things, as if they think those things are so great that you need to pay for it, which are actually shit that isn't worth it in the first place and then fuck them over once again. I don't care if they're being "transparent" assholes, they're still being assholes.

So in this case greedy = not giving out a high quality service for free? In that case, I'm very greedy. Super greedy even.

To clear my conscience I'll think I'll tell my boss tomorrow that I'm going to program for free from now on.

On a unrelated note, I'm now accepting paypal donations with the goal of not starving to death. In return, I'll provide weekly witty comments on the Giant Bomb forums. Come on guys! Let's keep this comment X-press rolling!

I also started a kickstarter to pay my rent.

I don't know why paid members get so uppity when people don't think it's worth it. Everyone is allowed to have opinions. I'm a paid yearly member, and based on the premium content and nothing else, I probably won't do it again. Because IN MY OPINION, the premium stuff just doesn't cut it. Five minute horrible quality clips on tested about people trying to do a puzzle that we can't see anything of, and watching people podcast is not my idea of premium videos. The GiantBomb stuff is better, what with the random PC game thing, but again, I'm not into just watching people sit and talk about shit, that's what podcasts are for. And since the Happy Hour doesn't come on anymore, what's the point?

If you want to support WM that's fine, good for you, you're supporting something you enjoy. But as a consumer, which is what we are right now, I have to think about what I'm getting for my money, and it just doesn't seem worth it.

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g6065

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Edited By g6065

For anyone debating whether a premium membership is worth it, let me put your mind at rest.

It is.

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MachoFantastico

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Edited By MachoFantastico

Obviously as a subscriber I'm glad your not changing it for us. Actually think the YouTube player move is a smart one, there's reasonable money to be add on YouTube.

And as long as you allow the toolbar to be easily removed I don't think these are bad moves.

I'm sure the endless amount of bitching will happen though.

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LifeByDegrees

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Edited By LifeByDegrees

I loved Meebo back in the day when I needed a great lightweight web based cross-service IM client.

I'm not entirely sure what your going to do with it- other than potentially the live stream chat?

I get the YouTube decision from the business perspective.

I just wish it didn't have to be YouTube- from a "Google" perspective.

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MikkaQ

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Edited By MikkaQ

I think youtube is an extremely smart decision. It has higher compatibility with pretty much everything and anything. If all of giantbomb's content will be on youtube it'll be easier to access on an Apple TV, which is a sweet bonus if you like watching the content on a TV. Also high iPad and iPhone compatibility for non-members which is great.

And yeah spreading the bandwidth load and knowledge of whiskey media is a great thing too!

I still don't understand this meebo stuff. Is it going to be like google or facebook chat? Like we'll be able to IM other members? Cause that's pretty neat.

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Skald

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Edited By Skald

Nice to see that the Giant Bomb Reality Distortion Field is still in effect.

I mean, none of this sounds good, at least, not to me.

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priorityseven

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Edited By priorityseven

@Miketorreza said:

Whatever dudes, continue to grovel at the feet of your Whiskey Media saviors while they continue to run a fucked up business that can't even function properly. I can't believe they've convinced people that their subscription is a donation that they get "gifts" back from instead of a purchase of a service that one should honestly consider the value of. They are not special, if you think these guys bring anything to the table beyond stupid jokes to their videos and podcast you are delusional. They are slightly amusing 30-something year-old chubby guys that play video games and write about them. They act about how hard and demanding their work is, and bum off you for cash in exchange for watching them do their damned job. I'm not even going to mention the half-assed other websites your dollars go to. I'm tired of supporting this stupid network and I'm going to cancel my monthly subscription that I am ashamed I let renew itself for 2 months. This is my honest opinion, say whatever you want about it. I'm out.

Glad you left gracefully. But then again, you probably won't leave, just sticking around in troll form. Regardless, stay classy.

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samfo

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Edited By samfo

I think the Meebo Bar is pretty unobtrusive. I don't mind it. (Logged out to see what it looked like.) Also, Giantbomb will be one of the biggest gaming channels on youtube so Im all for it.

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MordeaniisChaos

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Edited By MordeaniisChaos

@Osaladin: Perhaps. I think the Youtube player looks fine though, ever since the HTML5 redesign. And I think there is a "dark" skin they can use and it'll end up fitting the site just fine. I think it's a smart move if it'll save them money. Plus as someone who went without a sub for a couple weeks while I figured out payment issues, I can assure you that a youtube player that doesn't give the exact same fucking ad EVERY time you watch a video is infinitely better than WMs video player that does. Had they done this say 8 years ago back when youtube videos looked worse than a bloody dog anus, and streamed about as well, maybe this would have bee a bad idea. Had this been the first 6 months of HD streaming on youtube, when even a fast connection mostly failed to actually stream HD content (remember buffering?? that thing that if it happens even a little now on sites like WM we freak out and report it as a bug?), maybe this would have been a bad idea. But youtube as a platform for delivering video is perfectly competent. Considering itll just be (hopefully tasteful and well implemented) imbedded on the site, none of the content awareness issues that plague youtube will be an issue, it'll all be video and streaming quality.

@Baal_Sagoth: I kinda think you overestimate how much youtube is going to interfere with GB's content. There are plenty of videos out there of people cursing worse than Vinny on a bad day (which is saying rather a lot), and probably an hour long video of Duke slapping tits over and over again. Point is, people do more extreme things on youtube than play video games. And plenty do /that/ as well.

It would be really cool if they could find a way to let us watch the youtube exclusives like Fear Gauntlet on the site itself even if it is with the youtube player, so maybe a video page for that that is always the youtube player? That or just put that stuff on the site for premium members!

@Snider I don't think I'm alone in wondering what the fuck the meebo (I think I got that right...) thing is. Is it kinda ike pidgin for your browser? Is it site specific?

@Miketorreza said:

Whatever dudes, continue to grovel at the feet of your Whiskey Media saviors while they continue to run a fucked up business that can't even function properly. I can't believe they've convinced people that their subscription is a donation that they get "gifts" back from instead of a purchase of a service that one should honestly consider the value of. They are not special, if you think these guys bring anything to the table beyond stupid jokes to their videos and podcast you are delusional. They are slightly amusing 30-something year-old chubby guys that play video games and write about them. They act about how hard and demanding their work is, and bum off you for cash in exchange for watching them do their damned job. I'm not even going to mention the half-assed other websites your dollars go to. I'm tired of supporting this stupid network and I'm going to cancel my monthly subscription that I am ashamed I let renew itself for 2 months. This is my honest opinion, say whatever you want about it. I'm out.

MONEY FOR DOING THEIR JOBS? HOW CAN I GET IN ON THAT ACTION?? Why did you subscribe if you didn't like the content...? That's like paying for HBO when all you like are sitcoms.

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iamjohn

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Edited By iamjohn

This strikes me as incredibly baffling, considering how much Youtube is against videos being over 15 minutes (so in other words, basically every video you guys make), and I can't imagine that having to split videos up is going to make people more likely to check your guys' content out. How is denying non-payers access to the Whiskey video player not that whole "removing content from non-payers" thing you guys promised not to do when you created memberships?

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TadThuggish

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Edited By TadThuggish

Here come the illiterates!

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Phished0ne

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Edited By Phished0ne

Another article that is well written but will insight nothing but flame wars between subs and non-subs.

Look, i hate to rehash this over and over, but just because some people feel that the quality of content they get from this site or the premium features aren't worth the money, doesn't meant they are 'entitled assholes'. The same goes for being critical of decisions made by staff. If i dont like the fact that the 'random pc games' videos are subscriber only, i should have a right to say so, in whatever tone i desire, without being virtually shouted down or insulted for my opinions. There are lots of people on both sides of this that are acting childish. There are some people being trollish about these particular decisions though, they don't really have an effect on the site itself. I've already shrank down the Meebo bar. The youtube video thing urks me a bit though. Not because I'm 'self entited' and think i deserve whatever minor quality difference comes with the in-house player, but because i think having youtube embeds all over the place will make the site look less professional to new-comers. It seems weird to have such a sleekly designed site but have ugly youtube embeds.

Edit: Also, since non-subs cant comment on subscriber videos, i kindly ask that subs dont post on this article since it dosent really effect them. =P

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djames216

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Edited By djames216

As a non-subsciber I am re-assured by this. They are making every effort to minimise changes to the site in order to lower running costs etc. To those who are bitching about this - would you prefer they did nothing, eventually went out of business and shut down the site(s)? No, I didn't think so.

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snide

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Edited By snide

@iAmJohn said:

This strikes me as incredibly baffling, considering how much Youtube is against videos being over 15 minutes (so in other words, basically every video you guys make), and I can't imagine that having to split videos up is going to make people more likely to check your guys' content out. How is denying non-payers access to the Whiskey video player not that whole "removing content from non-payers" thing you guys promised not to do when you created memberships?

We have a deal with YouTube that allows us to publish long form videos. When the videos don't work on YT (such as a copyright claim), the Whiskey Player will still show for non-subs.

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vortextk

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Edited By vortextk
@iAmJohn said:

This strikes me as incredibly baffling, considering how much Youtube is against videos being over 15 minutes (so in other words, basically every video you guys make), and I can't imagine that having to split videos up is going to make people more likely to check your guys' content out. How is denying non-payers access to the Whiskey video player not that whole "removing content from non-payers" thing you guys promised not to do when you created memberships?

My youtube account was upgraded to having longer than 15 minutes almost immediately, because I didn't get any copyright etc violations upon my first few uploads.
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iamjohn

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Edited By iamjohn

@snide: Good to know.

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Osaladin

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Edited By Osaladin

@Phished0ne said:

Another article that is well written but will insight nothing but flame wars between subs and non-subs.

Look, i hate to rehash this over and over, but just because some people feel that the quality of content they get from this site or the premium features aren't worth the money, doesn't meant they are 'entitled assholes'. The same goes for being critical of decisions made by staff. If i dont like the fact that the 'random pc games' videos are subscriber only, i should have a right to say so, in whatever tone i desire, without being virtually shouted down or insulted for my opinions. There are lots of people on both sides of this that are acting childish. There are some people being trollish about these particular decisions though, they don't really have an effect on the site itself. I've already shrank down the Meebo bar. The youtube video thing urks me a bit though. Not because I'm 'self entited' and think i deserve whatever minor quality difference comes with the in-house player, but because i think having youtube embeds all over the place will make the site look less professional to new-comers. It seems weird to have such a sleekly designed site but have ugly youtube embeds.

Edit: Also, since non-subs cant comment on subscriber videos, i kindly ask that subs dont post on this article since it dosent really effect them. =P

I agree entirely, that's what I've been saying from the start, this coming from a yearly subscriber by the way. If people don't like the content, they are well within their rights not to.

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mrfluke

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Edited By mrfluke

youtube would bring in more adsense for them, as far as im concerned the more money for them the better

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This_Dude

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Edited By This_Dude

Sweet. Now the one free site where I didn't have to watch ads before every video is going to make me watch ads before every video. I quit watching videos on IGN when they started running ads before their videos. Frankly this is sad news.

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EchoEcho

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Edited By EchoEcho

@TheGorilla said:

Meebo makes me want to kill myself. Worst piece of software I've ever seen on the internet for the consumer. If it wasn't possible to get rid of it I would cancel my membership. Honestly I usually try not to sound like an entitled asshole, but I have a rule on the internet that if a site uses Meebo I stop going to it. I'm in total shock that you guys are using such a piece of colossal shit. Yesterday I thought you were one of the best designed sites on the internet, today I think you're one of the worst just for including Meebo. It's been my opinion for a long time now that Meebo is the worst thing I've ever seen on the internet. I understand you need to make money, but I would have supported anything before Meebo, including human sacrifice... although I'm not sure how you would make money off that.

I was waiting for you to get to the part where you explain why you hate Meebo so much ... but it never happened. You realize you don't have to use the thing, right? And you can minimize it so that you don't even have to look at it? What is the big, goddamned deal?

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Oldirtybearon

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Edited By Oldirtybearon

Meebo bar doesn't bug me. Youtube videos don't bug me.

Hey, guess I win.

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vortextk

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Edited By vortextk
@snide Are you growing your diableard?
 
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/3359129
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Forkstik

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Edited By Forkstik

Sounds like a great decision, really like nr. 2. Getting more "hits" on YouTube in order to attract more awesome people to the main sites, is a really great idea and one that will hopefully work!

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l3illyl3ob

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Edited By l3illyl3ob

I can't help but see this as an upgrade. Non-paying members will be able to use 720p video via Youtube, yeah? You'll actually be getting HD video now which you weren't before.

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quirkwood

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Edited By quirkwood

No problem for me :). Heck even if I wasn't already a subscriber I wouldn't give two shits about this. These guys and girls work their nuts off trying to bring us content that will appeal to us and people have the nerve to complain about a couple of extra ads here or there.

If you don't like it how bout you pony up the few dollars for a years subscription and stop complaining about something that doesn't cost you a cent you filthy free loaders.

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bunnyfiend

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Edited By bunnyfiend

Now I can chat... with my 3 'followers' on the site

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GioVANNI

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Edited By GioVANNI

I honestly prefer the YouTube player, so I'm not too bummed about this decision. It does kind of make the site look less "professional", I guess.

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Mumrik

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Edited By Mumrik

Get fucking going on producing more merchandise and making the store more visible (top bar link). That way we'll actually be able to put some money your way without paying a laughable amount for a subscription. It also wouldn't be alienating the "free" users even more than the in-your-face premium content already does...

I simply can't fathom why you aren't doing that when other sites with strong brands get it and make money from it.

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downloaded

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Edited By downloaded

I won't lie, I understand why you guys are doing such things but it always makes me a bit sad when I'm forced to think of GB as a business rather than a community...it makes you guys seem like bag, nasty CEO types. I've been a user for years...WAS I NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU!? :'(

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Mattf2312

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Edited By Mattf2312

@ReyGitano said:

Great? Not really sure how to feel about this news; I'm happy Whiskey is trying to expand, but I also fear what the future will have in store. I have no idea what Meebo is but use the words phrase but all I can picture is Yahoo... mostly because of the word IM I guess. I just hope that not too much of the site gets outsourced, I love the cozy feeling of a singular design vision.

Amen to that. It's great to see these guys have success and grow their business, I just hope they don't forget one of the most appealing aspects of the sight is its intimacy and small group feel.

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rorie

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Edited By rorie

@bunnyfiend said:

Now I can chat... with my 3 'followers' on the site

I followed you. How you like them apples?

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cstrang

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Edited By cstrang

I imagine the Youtube thing will be unpopular for many. Good thing I'm a premium member! Peace!

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vortextk

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Edited By vortextk

Oh...that's andy right? He looks like Tom Selleck.

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oblique_

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Edited By oblique_

The Meebo bar looks really trashy. I'm a subscriber and will continue to be for a very long time, probably, but I really hate that the Meebo bar is now one of the first things people new to Whiskey Media sites will see.

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olhadossight

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Edited By olhadossight

I totally understand that the Whiskey needs to grow as a business, but sometimes it makes me a little nervous to think of the sites expanding further. The thing I like best about the Whiskey sites is the sense of community and "small-ness" that they have, and I hope that that stays a part of them. I wish you guys the absolute best of luck, and just have to trust that you understand what we as users want not just in terms of content but of overall feel.

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Daveyo520

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Edited By Daveyo520

Guys, what the hell. I felt bad enough for not being a subscriber and now you make it even worse. Even though some of us have been with you since the start. Not cool guys, not cool. This little bar is like something you would see on a porn site or some other site of ill repute.

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Mumrik

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Edited By Mumrik

@snide said:

@onimonkii said:

as a free member i'm kinda concerned about the youtube change because one of the things people pay for is 720p video, but youtube gives it out for free. are you only going to upload lower res versions to youtube to solve this?

Yes, we're only uploading the 360p versions of our videos to YT. We may upload higher rez trailers though eventually.

Wait what? Not even the only semi-decent 480p!?

Are you really telling us that that Youtube's 360p is the same as your current "high" quality, or are you downgrading non-subscriber video quality?

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and333

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Edited By and333

@l3illyl3ob: So far all video on youtube from giantbomb has all been max resolution 360p...Doesn't matter to me cause i am a subscriber!

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Thejugglingbum

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Edited By Thejugglingbum

You guys are like an indie band who are becoming popular.

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sloppyjoe

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Edited By sloppyjoe

I'm happy to pay a reasonable amount of money for the amount of content I get out of Whiskey (along with a free t shirt or whatever). Keep up the good work!

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ky326

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Edited By ky326

I'm cool with this Dave. :)

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Brendan

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Edited By Brendan

@MrChaz said:

As a premium member i know this doesn't effect me but such blatent money moves make me nervous. I pay to support you guys because youre honest funny people who seem to be in it for the content not to 'grow the business'.

I guess we'll see how it shakes out.

Also my isp seems to throttle youtube...

Is "growing a business" an inherently evil thing? It doesn't look like they're taking anything away from non-users, and by running the site more effectively they're making more money and saving on unnecessary costs. I'm trying to see what's wrong here, but I honestly can't.

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Nomin

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Edited By Nomin

So you're excited about shilling more advertisement crap toward the users while removing features or potentially degrading the quality of features from the website? How about at least heeding to some real feedback and fix this website of yours first, like the ear busting sound levels of your Dead Island adverts?

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Osaladin

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Edited By Osaladin

@Mumrik said:

@snide said:

@onimonkii said:

as a free member i'm kinda concerned about the youtube change because one of the things people pay for is 720p video, but youtube gives it out for free. are you only going to upload lower res versions to youtube to solve this?

Yes, we're only uploading the 360p versions of our videos to YT. We may upload higher rez trailers though eventually.

Wait what? Not even the only semi-decent 480p!?

Wow, that does not sound like a good idea. Forced to watch 360p videos is a big oversight.

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Godot

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Edited By Godot

@This_Dude said:

Sweet. Now the one free site where I didn't have to watch ads before every video is going to make me watch ads before every video. I quit watching videos on IGN when they started running ads before their videos. Frankly this is sad news.

Gosh darn video game sites trying to make money! Where do they get off on that kind of thing?!

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Edited By dvorak

@suprspecialawsm said:

I totally understand that the Whiskey needs to grow as a business, but sometimes it makes me a little nervous to think of the sites expanding further. The thing I like best about the Whiskey sites is the sense of community and "small-ness" that they have, and I hope that that stays a part of them. I wish you guys the absolute best of luck, and just have to trust that you understand what we as users want not just in terms of content but of overall feel.

The problem is that at this point they have laid out so much infrastructure, with tons of professional talent and equipment they need to have the revenue stream catch up to that, and at some point turn an actual profit.

For good or for bad, it had to happen at some point if these sites are to continue.

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TehJedicake

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Edited By TehJedicake

Fuckin sweet news! If you're still not subscribed to whiskey media then you're crazy.

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Edited By sully

I'm all for the changes. Save money where you can and where it doesn't immensely impact the user experience; put that money and time to better use elsewhere.