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How Smart Uncharted Fans Changed Naughty Dog's Game

The community was riled up about changes in Uncharted 3, articulated their problems, and were invited to the studio to help Naughty Dog fix them.

Uncharted 2 introduced the series to multiplayer, and like Assassin's Creed, it worked surprisingly well.
Uncharted 2 introduced the series to multiplayer, and like Assassin's Creed, it worked surprisingly well.

The video game industry sits still for no man, and developers are constantly asked to shift, evolve, and innovate to remain on top. Fans do not accept every change with open arms, and the increased connectivity of communities, fostered by the sharp increase of community managers who try to keep their fingers on the pulse, means developers are listening more than ever.

Arne Meyer is the liaison at Naughty Dog between the community who adores the games coming from the Sony-owned studio and the developers who spend years creating these lavish, spectacle-laden video games.

One of the strange disconnects was the gunplay feeling different between single and multiplayer.
One of the strange disconnects was the gunplay feeling different between single and multiplayer.

It’s up to Meyer to figure out when the community is making a serious point and pass it on. He started to suspect they were in the last few weeks, immediately following the launch of Uncharted 3: Drake’s Deception. The community started to raise concerns about changes made to the gunplay since the release of 2009’s Uncharted 2: Among Thieves.

The debate started on their own forums at naughtydog.com, and quickly spread to the popular gaming message board NeoGAF.

“They felt that Uncharted 2 really had the aiming down, had the gunplay down correctly, so they were trying to dissect what was happening there,” he said.

The key word here is “dissect.” It’s one thing to complain, it’s another to structurally break down what makes the game tick, ripping apart the design logic, and attempting to understand what was causing the feeling of disconnect between Uncharted 2 and Uncharted 3. Players were looking at dead zone, velocity and stick aiming changes without any first-hand knowledge.

“A lot of what we were seeing was people driving themselves nuts trying to figure out what it was, and a lot of theories were coming out, so we wanted to make sure that we clarified that,” said Meyer.

Players were uploading videos with commentary, drawing up graphs explaining their theories--clearly, a scale had been tipped.

Meyer sat down with game director Justin Richmond and multiplayer programmer Travis McIntosh to sketch out the changes made for Uncharted 3. He pulled people from both sides because the community was saying the issue was specifically related to singleplayer. The result was a blog post on Naughty Dog's site that Meyer hoped would help fans settle to Uncharted 3.

It didn’t work, so it was back to the drawing board.

“We took some time to investigate that internally because, again, we knew we’d made changes, but in all of our focus testing--probably about three months of straight focus testing--we never got any feedback the aiming was unsatisfactory to those people,” he said. “And for us, it’s very hard. I mean, obviously because we’ve played around with this, so whatever we had internally we’d get used to very quickly.”

Both Naughty Dog and Naughty Dog’s fans were banging their heads against the wall at this point. Meyer threw out the idea of bringing some fans into the actual studio to better articulate the issue, but the idea came and went.

“Justin came by later and said ‘Well, can you do that?’ And I’m like ‘sure.’” he said. “So, I posted on the NeoGAF forum where people were going through it in a very eloquent fashion, really explaining their gripes very clearly, and I said ‘Well, is anyone local that can come in and explain it to us?’”

Two users showed up, each bringing with them another person also versed in Uncharted, and all four were members of NeoGAF. Everyone sat down with Richmond and McIntosh, and plead their case regarding the issues within Uncharted 3 with the very same people responsible for making them.

In order to make sure Naughty Dog was getting the right feedback, the team employed a variation of the Pepsi Challenge.

“We showed them a before and after without telling them which one was changed to see how they liked these alternate settings that our programmer had come up with,” said Meyer. “As part of that process, we iterated on what the feedback was and we were making changes on the fly, and changing different things from what we originally changed to get the right feel for the aiming.”

When the patch launches in the coming weeks, a tweak will reflect the community's response.
When the patch launches in the coming weeks, a tweak will reflect the community's response.

It's not hard to imagine how a fan might become easily starstruck. Here you are, chatting with the creators of one of your favorite games, telling them what you think about that game, and having one of the developers implement your changes in real-time. That’s really something else.

The traditional problem with incorporating fans is the inability to get properly articulated feedback, or to have players who are so wrapped up in the idea of coming behind the curtain that everyone's sidetracked.

“They definitely weren’t here ‘blinded by the light.’” said Meyer. “These are our fans, so I don’t want to say they came in with a massively critical chip on their shoulder over it, but the two guys that we brought in, I think they were really sharp in terms of being analytical and being able upfront with what the changes were, and they were very clear and direct about what it was, and it was actually super helpful for us.”

Naughty Dog is currently working on a patch for Uncharted 3 that will address, among other things, the gunplay concerns. There’s no date for the patch, but when it goes live, there will be an aiming toggle that brings the settings closer to Uncharted 2. This is merely an option, though, and anyone who’s just happy with how Uncharted 3 plays won’t have to make the switch.

Meyer said Naughty Dog didn’t have a policy for bringing fans to the studio, but that may change.

“Justin and I always talk about, when we’re on our press tours, that one of the awesomest things when we’re doing press is when we have the opportunity to meet with our fans,” he said. “For Justin, it was great to actually have somebody come in and have actionable changes happen in front of them.”

Patrick Klepek on Google+

199 Comments

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sage3k

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Edited By sage3k

I would love to see Naughty Dog take on a super hero License. their games have been amazing marvels to date and since they are not working on the Jak and Daxter Series.. I would love to see them take on a complex license like RockSteady did with Batman.

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billyhoush

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Edited By billyhoush

So was this game ever patched?

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Hopskotch

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Edited By Hopskotch

Awesome to see a company taking the opinion of its users to mind

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coldman

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Edited By coldman

Their response time was very impressive. Go GAF! :P

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mewarmo990

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Edited By mewarmo990

This is a good story, it reminds me of the E3 2011 Bombcasts. 
 
Some fans might not care too much about the actual details of what goes into making a game, but I'm glad Patrick is covering it.

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Antiimony

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Edited By Antiimony

Great story Patrick

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BlaineFromMaine

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Edited By BlaineFromMaine

I'm just impressed that they listened to the community and something "positive" came out, even if it's fixing something that many believe shouldn't have been a problem to begin with. Still, a good outcome.

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metal_mad

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Edited By metal_mad

i want uncharted 3

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Sooty

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Edited By Sooty

The shooting is still pretty bad in Uncharted unfortunately

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NaCl

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Edited By NaCl

@Soap said:

As a tester their is a huge difference between saying, this causes the game to crash and your design is wrong, the later of which you just don't do and in this case is what needed to be said,

I doubt ND game designers are so "closed" and easily offended when it comes to feedback about their work. They would not have survived in the industry this long if they were.

I have no idea why you have such a negative impression of ND's game designers, testers, programmers etc ... just about everyone really.

I have seen the behind the scene videos of their games, they are a pretty damn smart bunch of people. You don't make games of Uncharted's calibre by being a bunch of dumbasses.

also it doesn't take psychic to tell that it was broken, all they had to do was play the game themselves or have focus testing.
Anyway, I'm done.

They have, and they found nothing wrong! That's what I'm trying to tell you!!!!

Game design is subjective. Either you like it or you don't - there is no "broken". But ND decided to add an different gunplay system anyway, post-launch at that, for people who don't like the new one.

To be honest, they don't really have to "fix" the game. They can design the gunplay however they like - it's their game. As a customer, you have 2 choice, either you buy their game or you don't. That's the it.

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Soap

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Edited By Soap

@NaCl said:

@Soap said:

Right, well as someone who did play the game I can say that in my opinion it wasn't minor, the aiming made the combat a nightmare to play and sucked any joy out of fighting, and when it made up a good 70% of the gameplay it left me really disappointed.

Well, they see it as a problem too and are trying to fix it now. Don't see what some of you people are complaining about.

I sure they would have "fixed it before release", but the feedback from their internal testing show no issues and they can't fix what they didn't know was a problem. They aren't psychic you know.

PS: And what I meant by "minor" is, Uncharted is an adventure game, combat isn't exactly the "main course" unlike in say Gears of War. And it still works doesn't it? You can shoot bad guys. Bad guys die.

I imagine the reason it wasn't picked up upon was because testers usually don't want to say anything to negative about the game, after all, offend someone about their work and you could lose your job.

Also the aiming in multiplayer is different to singleplayer, so the beta wouldn't of picked up on it anyway.

I doubt that.

QA testers have send "worse" reports than "the gunplay doesn't feel right" - like "when you pick up item A followed by item B, the game crashes".

Tuning the gameplay is much easier (just a matter of changing a few variable in memory or at most a recode of the controlling code) than fixing major bugs that in theory shouldn't exist thus the programmers (for the moment) don't have a clue what is wrong.

And from what I heard ND is a remarkably "open" company, QA probably chats with the gameplay designers on a regular basis.

As mentioned in the article, it's more probable that the QA testers just "got used to it", as the changes to the gunplay was most likely implemented incrementally.

As a tester their is a huge difference between saying, this causes the game to crash and your design is wrong, the later of which you just don't do and in this case is what needed to be said, also it doesn't take psychic to tell that it was broken, all they had to do was play the game themselves or have focus testing.

Anyway, I'm done.

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TheDudeOfGaming

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Edited By TheDudeOfGaming

That's it, I'm buying a PS3 because of Naughty Dog.

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NaCl

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Edited By NaCl

@Soap said:

Right, well as someone who did play the game I can say that in my opinion it wasn't minor, the aiming made the combat a nightmare to play and sucked any joy out of fighting, and when it made up a good 70% of the gameplay it left me really disappointed.

Well, they see it as a problem too and are trying to fix it now. Don't see what some of you people are complaining about.

I sure they would have "fixed it before release", but the feedback from their internal testing show no issues and they can't fix what they didn't know was a problem. They aren't psychic you know.

PS: And what I meant by "minor" is, Uncharted is an adventure game, combat isn't exactly the "main course" unlike in say Gears of War. And it still works doesn't it? You can shoot bad guys. Bad guys die.

I imagine the reason it wasn't picked up upon was because testers usually don't want to say anything to negative about the game, after all, offend someone about their work and you could lose your job.

Also the aiming in multiplayer is different to singleplayer, so the beta wouldn't of picked up on it anyway.

I doubt that.

QA testers have send "worse" reports than "the gunplay doesn't feel right" - like "when you pick up item A followed by item B, the game crashes".

Tuning the gameplay is much easier (just a matter of changing a few variable in memory or at most a recode of the controlling code) than fixing major bugs that in theory shouldn't exist thus the programmers (for the moment) don't have a clue what is wrong.

And from what I heard ND is a remarkably "open" company, QA probably chats with the gameplay designers on a regular basis.

As mentioned in the article, it's more probable that the QA testers just "got used to it", as the changes to the gunplay was most likely implemented incrementally.

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NaCl

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Edited By NaCl

@kollay said:

@NaCl: Aiming is a 'minor' problem? Really?

Does it work? Can you hit the bad guys? Do the bad guys die?

If yes. Then it's fine.

What people are complaining about is the "feel" of the gunplay. Otherwise it's more or less functional.

Not to mention Uncharted is mostly an adventure game. Gunplay is a relatively small part of it. Unlike say in Gears of War where shooting is the "main course" and practically all you do.

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Havok

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Edited By Havok

Customer crowd sourcing their problem is brilliant.

"You think our game is busted? Fine, come on down and fix it with us!"

More companies should do this.

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Freefall1025

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Edited By Freefall1025

It's great to see the developer listen to the fans and address issues in a timely manner. U3 is a great game.

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tomance

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Edited By tomance

I think what Naught Dog did was great. I'm still waiting for the patch to come out before I play through the game a second time.

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kollay

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Edited By kollay

@NaCl: Aiming is a 'minor' problem? Really?

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Jasoncourt

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Edited By Jasoncourt

The fact that they ' give a crap' enough to listen to the community post-release... and then go to the effort to bring in players for feedback is pretty awesome.

I also agree with some people here that this kind of thing doesn't give some complainers too much more if an ego that is already inflated. But if it helps the games, I can live with it :)

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Robo

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Edited By Robo

Great. Whoever buys my used copy of this game might enjoy playing through the campaign slightly more than I did.

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Thompson820

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Edited By Thompson820

To insane commenters: When there is an apparent problem with your product you absolutely should be open to the idea of getting people who experience the problem to come and explain it, but this by no means means that you are going to start seeing people become involved in the actual development process. This was a great thing for Naughty Dog to do to resolve this specific problem, no more no less. Calm down.

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Baal_Sagoth

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Edited By Baal_Sagoth

Really shady story. If they want the community to give feedback they should go to them, not invite random people from fucking NeoGAF. Being a good little bitch and not stepping on anyone's toes does not equal real knowledge about problems with video games. Eloquence is a nice to have feature not a tell-tale sign of being smart, helpful or anything like that. They want to seem like they are being 'democratic' about their balancing process (which is a silly idea to begin with) and try to prove it by giving four random internet forum nerds a tour of the studio - it seems like exceptionally dumb viral marketing.

Then again, what do I know, I'm not even that interested in Uncharted and always hated the shooting parts. I just really hope this nonsense doesn't spread and not many developers start listening to a crowd that is as anonymous, diverse and random as the legions of fans of mainstream bestsellers. BAD fucking Gothic 3 flashback, a case where the developer also used starstruck random fanboys to keep up the illusion they were giving a fuck about their customers a little longer. You already fucked up your game despite obscene financial success and budget Naughty Dog, get over it and try again.

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Soap

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Edited By Soap

@NaCl said:

@Soap said:

Well if it had been an issue that wasn't obvious from the beginning then I would be applauding them,

That's the thing. It wasn't obvious.

They receive no complains during internal testing, nothing that I know of during beta either.

if it wasn't that they had rushed it to meet a deadline rather than actually shipping the game with a working aiming system I wouldn't be blaming them, if they had admitted to it when first caught out rather than posting a bitchy blog about how the entire community was wrong I wouldn't have a problem either.
So yeah, I'm bitching, but it's perfectly justified.

The aiming system from what I have heard works just fine. Just not to the liking of some who are kicking up a fuss.

ND decided to address it anyway.

Can't believe people are bitching at them for going out of their way to address what is in the grand scheme of things a relatively minor problem.

Right, well as someone who did play the game I can say that in my opinion it wasn't minor, the aiming made the combat a nightmare to play and sucked any joy out of fighting, and when it made up a good 70% of the gameplay it left me really dissapointed.

I imagine the reason it wasn't picked up upon was because testers usually don't want to say anything to negative about the game, after all, offend someone about their work and you could lose your job.

Also the aiming in multiplayer is different to singleplayer, so the beta wouldn't of picked up on it anyway.

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will_m

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Edited By will_m

I bet there's a bronze statue of Crash Bandicoot in the ND lobby. At least i would hope so. Anyways, good on them to going to these lengths to try and fix their game. And to everyone saying "it should've been fixed at release"... well thanks for that, you can go to sleep peacefully knowing you've made yet another comments section all the more painful to read.

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NaCl

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Edited By NaCl

@Soap said:

Well if it had been an issue that wasn't obvious from the beginning then I would be applauding them,

That's the thing. It wasn't obvious.

They receive no complains during internal testing, nothing that I know of during beta either.

if it wasn't that they had rushed it to meet a deadline rather than actually shipping the game with a working aiming system I wouldn't be blaming them, if they had admitted to it when first caught out rather than posting a bitchy blog about how the entire community was wrong I wouldn't have a problem either.
So yeah, I'm bitching, but it's perfectly justified.

The aiming system from what I have heard works just fine. Just not to the liking of some who are kicking up a fuss.

ND decided to address it anyway.

Can't believe people are bitching at them for going out of their way to address what is in the grand scheme of things a relatively minor problem.

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Soap

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Edited By Soap

@NaCl said:

@BitterAlmond said:

@Soap said:

Only Naughty Dog could spin fixing their broken ass aiming into something positive.

Game developer try to fix issue with game. Even invited gamers to their offices to air their "grievances" and help out pin-point what they are unhappy about, so the developers can tuned it to exactly how they would like it.

Only bitching GiantBomb commenters could spin what is a positive response to feedback into something negative.

Well if it had been an issue that wasn't obvious from the beginning then I would be applauding them, if it wasn't that they had rushed it to meet a deadline rather than actually shipping the game with a working aiming system I wouldn't be blaming them, if they had admitted to it when first caught out rather than posting a bitchy blog about how the entire community was wrong I wouldn't have a problem either.

So yeah, I'm bitching, but it's perfectly justified.

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Eyz

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Edited By Eyz

Using fan feedback is always for the best!

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NaCl

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Edited By NaCl

@BitterAlmond said:

@Soap said:

Only Naughty Dog could spin fixing their broken ass aiming into something positive.

Game developer try to fix issue with game. Even invited gamers to their offices to air their "grievances" and help out pin-point what they are unhappy about, so the developers can tuned it to exactly how they would like it.

Only bitching GiantBomb commenters could spin what is a positive response to feedback into something negative.

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KamasamaK

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Edited By KamasamaK

@Delta_Ass said:

Well played Naughty Dog. Now if you'd just let me come in for the next 2-3 weeks to take you through the issues with Elena's face.

Oh yea, I'd issue all over Elena's face. Wait, what were we talking about?

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SheBites

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Edited By SheBites

Well it's good to see that they care enough to listen to the fans and bring in some people to try to fix stuff that most people found wrong with the game. I'm only like 5 chapters or so in so I think I'll wait to continue when they patch it up but really didn't notice much of the problems they did. Skyrim and Saints Row 3 should keep me busy till then anyways :).

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BitterAlmond

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Edited By BitterAlmond

@Soap said:

Only Naughty Dog could spin fixing their broken ass aiming into something positive.

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akira_22

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Edited By akira_22

This is cool. Well done ND for being open, and well done to the Neogaf guys for being constructive, we need more of this kind of thing.

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Stubert73

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Edited By Stubert73

Given the very nature of forums, it's very hard to sit down and articulate what you think is wrong with a game and so much simpler to say something sucks and leave it at that. Good on the fans for taking the time to provide useful critiques.

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tweetspot

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Edited By tweetspot

i loved uc2 mp, but played the subtober multiplayer once and couldn't stand the aiming. didn't buy the game. i'm glad i wasn't the only one that had a problem with it. i thought i may have gone crazy.

i'll probably buy the game whenever the hell i can get done/tired of skyrim. awesome they took criticism well and made appropriate changes.

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Yadilie

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Edited By Yadilie

So, are they also changing how terrible the multiplayer is?

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hemmelight

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Edited By hemmelight

I bought U3 and immediately after being given a gun I felt something was wrong. I really hope this change is reflected in single player as well because I had no problem with the shooting mechanic in Uncharted 1 and 2 but I had to turn off the game this time out of frustration with the shitty controls.

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Indefatigable

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Edited By Indefatigable

I had just completed an Uncharted 2 Crushing run a couple weeks before 3 came out, and it had gone notably smoother than my UC1 Crushing run, in part because I'm a lot better at console shooters now than in 2007. Then comes UC3 which I start on Normal because I kinda wanted a simpler experience after UC2 Crushing, and I was continually perplexed by why it was so hard the aim. Like many others, I have a tough time explaining it. I still don't completely understand why, but I'm hoping ND and the fans that dropped into their studio have figured out.

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Roomrunner

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Edited By Roomrunner

@RsistncE said:

@Roomrunner said:

@RsistncE said:

...people actually give that much of a shit about a $60 video game that they would spend that amount of time and effort just to have aiming in the game changed? I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Well, they got something out of it. Which is more than we can say about your post.

The concept of opportunity cost clearly evades you. My post took approximately 10 seconds to type up and wasn't meant to "get me something". At the end of the day these guys spent hours upon hours of their time to have a feature in a $60 product changed.

Or to take advantage of a rare opportunity to have first hand contribution to the hobby they love, and developer they respect. These people like games. They like discussing games. This wasn't a petition or campaign. They literally worked along side Naughty Dog (who reached out to them, mind you) and deliberated mechanics, because they are into that stuff. No concept evaded me. You're just carelessly judging what time well spent is. Which brings me back to what my point was in the first place - stop busting, you buster.

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MormonWarrior

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Edited By MormonWarrior

Now can somebody get them to fix the obnoxious, cheap enemy AI? It was a problem in 2 and it's even worse this time with enemies being WAY too good at flanking you and perfectly lobbing grenade launcher shots at you...and trying to use stealth is pointless because they can randomly see you even when you're in cover around a corner...there were a lot of really frustrating parts in this game.

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Grognard66

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Edited By Grognard66

@zoozilla said:

@Grognard66 said:

What I find most surprising is that this didn't come up in any of the reviews for the game and that this game had an even higher average rating that Uncharted 2. Shooting is the game mechanic used most often in this series (I had almost 500 enemies shot and the time spent shooting greatly outweighed the platforming, puzzles, etc.) so how could it rate better than the last one when the most basic game mechanic was demonstrably worse than the previous release?

The shooting mechanic was only "demonstrably worse" to those that had been playing Uncharted 2 religiously and were had intimate knowledge of the gunplay's intricacies. Most reviewers (and the focus group testers) didn't have that, so the gunplay seemed fine. It wasn't about the gunplay being "better" or "worse," just more or less like Uncharted 2.

I hadn't played Uncharted 2 in over a year and never played it religiously, but I knew in the first few minutes of Uncharted 3 that something had changed for the worse with the shooting mechanic.

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Shaunage

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I finished the game without noticing it was any different. To be fair I hadn't played 2 since it came out, but 3 worked just fine. The difficulty spikes unreasonably in a few areas, and became super frustrating, but I never had a problem htting what I was shooting at.

It's a great approach by Naughty Dog. Weird that this didn't get done during the beta and actually ship with the game, though.

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They were bitching on a message board which ND's community manager happened to use too. I guess that makes them 'smart'.

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cowswithguns

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Cool! And well written article.

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RsistncE

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@Roomrunner said:

@RsistncE said:

...people actually give that much of a shit about a $60 video game that they would spend that amount of time and effort just to have aiming in the game changed? I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Well, they got something out of it. Which is more than we can say about your post.

The concept of opportunity cost clearly evades you. My post took approximately 10 seconds to type up and wasn't meant to "get me something". At the end of the day these guys spent hours upon hours of their time to have a feature in a $60 product changed.

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@LP3 said:

"gunplay"

A real word?

Damn right it is. Or at least it has been for the past decade I've used the term.

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@Grognard66 said:

What I find most surprising is that this didn't come up in any of the reviews for the game and that this game had an even higher average rating that Uncharted 2. Shooting is the game mechanic used most often in this series (I had almost 500 enemies shot and the time spent shooting greatly outweighed the platforming, puzzles, etc.) so how could it rate better than the last one when the most basic game mechanic was demonstrably worse than the previous release?

The shooting mechanic was only "demonstrably worse" to those that had been playing Uncharted 2 religiously and were had intimate knowledge of the gunplay's intricacies. Most reviewers (and the focus group testers) didn't have that, so the gunplay seemed fine. It wasn't about the gunplay being "better" or "worse," just more or less like Uncharted 2.

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kollay

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@Mkrtich said:

For some reason I felt like the enemies were also different in Uncharted 3. Unlike in Uncharted 2, they don't seem to react to getting hit with bullets. Was that frustrating for any of you? I hated it and haven't felt like finishing the game due to that and the aiming.

You're not alone. I found the hitboxes of the enemy as weird and deceiving.

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"gunplay"

A real word?

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@KillaWolf13 said:
@habibyjohnson: I think you can somehow, as in the stats it says times switched shoulder or something along those lines. I'm not sure myself how to do it and never actually found myself needing to, but I think it is there somewhere.
You have to turn it on in the options menu.  I think they call it "camera swap" or something like that.  It's off by default for some ridiculous reason.