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Letter from the Editor - 07/02/2014

Hey, hi. Let's talk for a sec, OK?

In the last few days there's been a lot of talk about what Giant Bomb is and isn't. What it stands for and what it won't stand for. A lot of people have made a lot of assumptions about what we do and how we act, and what we tolerate or even condone on our message boards and live chats. Most of this isn't new, but it's well past time to come out and say what this staff and this site stands for.

Giant Bomb is, by design, an inclusionary place. When we originally built the site back in 2008, it was originally thought of as a place where our audience could contribute in meaningful ways. Or, if they like, they can just sit back and enjoy our various productions. When I say "inclusionary," I mean exactly that. No person should be excluded from our site. The fact that some people have been resistant to people based on their gender, religion, race, creed, or anything else like that is not acceptable. Even less acceptable are people who make their exclusionary beliefs known (repeatedly and often aggressively) and then attempt to say that those viewpoints are valid and, thus, must be allowed for us to remain inclusionary. That is bad logic. That is a bullying tactic, and that style of intimidation will not be tolerated.

We moderate our live chats, message boards, and comment threads. And we do it rather viciously. Some things certainly do slip through the cracks and you may see some garbage on our site before we get to it. To those of you who help by reporting things to our moderation team, you have my thanks. We're certainly not perfect. When we launched the site, we launched it with one simple rule: "don't be a dick." This may have gotten by in an age when we were a fraction of our current size. These days, we've grown to a point where small community rules aren't enough. We'll be implementing new moderation policies and adjusting a few things behind-the-scenes to enhance our ability to moderate the boards. We'll have more to say about those policy changes as they come.

We felt the need to come forward and state our position after some individuals decided to speak out about how we're conducting business and were promptly attacked and abused on Twitter and other social media platforms. Whether one agrees with our critics or not, it certainly doesn't warrant the response they've received.

I feel absolutely horrible that people have been harassed for simply expressing their views about what we do.

The people attacking our critics do not represent our views and they never have, whether they're doing it in our name or not. I appreciate that people enjoy our work and that they often care enough about it to criticize it.

I would like to apologize to everyone that has seen any bit of unpleasantness this week, whether it is directly associated with our message boards or not. We will continue to work to make the site a better place for everyone to enjoy.

Thanks for using our site. It's been a very bumpy ride over these last couple of years and it just now feels like we're getting our feet underneath us and getting to a point where we can move forward. There's still a very active, wonderful, and beloved community at the core of this site, and their reputation has been tarnished alongside ours. We simply cannot and will not allow negative elements to ruin what we've built together.

-Jeff

Jeff Gerstmann on Google+

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conmulligan

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Edited By conmulligan

@rm082e said:

From your link:

"The tone argument is a form of derailment, or a red herring, because the tone of a statement is independent of the content of the statement in question, and calling attention to it distracts from the issue at hand."

The problem I have is that the tone is distracting from the issue at hand. I have a hard time taking someone's argument for equality and diversity seriously when I see them posting things like "I hate men". If the trolls have driven them to that level of anger and frustration, then we need to remove the trolls from the equation first so we can have a civil discussion without the tone having an impact on the issues. That's not going to happen on Twitter, so let's not have that conversation there. Let's find or build a safe place to talk.

I mean, tone can always be perceived as a distraction from the issue at hand, but I don't think that's a valid excuse for ignoring what someone has to say. We both know the point that the women being abused were trying to make, regardless of how it was delivered. As for building a safe place to talk, I hope Giant Bomb can be one of those places.

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chet_rippo

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Well said. I really love this site and what you guys do.

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rorie

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@sarisa: I can tell you're passionate about this, but language like "this is a terrible post and you should feel terrible" does little to keep this conversation calm. Even if you think incivility shouldn't necessarily be met with civility, please try to keep it that way here.

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rorie

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@ultrapeanut: If you are going to be sarcastic in your responses in this thread, please don't comment in it at all.

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sarisa

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@rorie Fair enough, but if saying "your opinion is terrible" is a bigger deal for moderators than someone saying "girls make up rape claims to get back at innocent guys," this is kind of a sign of something!

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Shingro

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@rorie: Good luck man, I know these waters are murky, and it's gotta be rough to call out both sides for bad behavior when it arises.

Regardless, know that your efforts are appreciated. Don't let it get you to down, people will find their peace some day. "Arc of history is long..." and all that.

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rorie

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Edited By rorie

@sarisa said:

@rorie Fair enough, but if saying "your opinion is terrible" is a bigger deal for moderators than someone saying "girls make up rape claims to get back at innocent guys,"

this is kind of a sign of something!

I don't disagree. The mods and I are discussing how we're going to be approaching these kinds of threads in the future and we're going to do our best to tighten up how we police, as was mentioned in the very article that you're replying to. But those changes will take some time to come about.

Also, don't assume that you see all moderation actions. I have commented on many comments here directly, but there's also plenty of warnings, timeouts, and bans being given out behind the scenes.

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rm082e

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@rm082e said:

From your link:

"The tone argument is a form of derailment, or a red herring, because the tone of a statement is independent of the content of the statement in question, and calling attention to it distracts from the issue at hand."

The problem I have is that the tone is distracting from the issue at hand. I have a hard time taking someone's argument for equality and diversity seriously when I see them posting things like "I hate men". If the trolls have driven them to that level of anger and frustration, then we need to remove the trolls from the equation first so we can have a civil discussion without the tone having an impact on the issues. That's not going to happen on Twitter, so let's not have that conversation there. Let's find or build a safe place to talk.

I mean, tone can always be perceived as a distraction from the issue at hand, but I don't think that's a valid excuse for ignoring what someone has to say. We both know the point that the women being abused were trying to make, regardless of how it was delivered. As for building a safe place to talk, I hope Giant Bomb can be one of those places.

Me too.

Rorie, I really appreciate the time you are taking right now to watch this thread.

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Legion_

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I would be so happy if people would just chill out a bit more. Don't make a big deal about everything, be positive, don't hate.

Let's just be more like our main man Ryan Davis.

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rm082e

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@legion_ said:

I would be so happy if people would just chill out a bit more. Don't make a big deal about everything, be positive, don't hate.

Let's just be more like our main man Ryan Davis.

But Ryan HATED pennies!

Loading Video...

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ultrapeanut

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@rm082e@shingro: If you're both actually interested in helping out, please read up on concern trolling and how what you're both doing is a perfect example of it. Or, failing that, please try to understand why it's not reasonable or fair to criticize marginalized people subjected to abuse the moment they express a 'political' opinion (as though defending the status quo is a neutral thing in itself) for not engaging dishonest and cruel people in any way other than to tell them their comments aren't wanted.

The invocation and incessant focus on the occasional expression of anger by people like Samantha Allen and Leigh Alexander who spend hours upon hours writing lengthy pieces about their experiences and the faults they see in the industry is -- how to put this politely -- misguided at best. Ignoring the context their words exist in -- brief expressions of frustration during the course of weeks/months/years of dealing with these exhausting issues and the people who oppose their input -- is... less good than that.

Just, man. Try to empathize a little? Please?

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Clonedzero

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@sarisa said:

@rorie Fair enough, but if saying "your opinion is terrible" is a bigger deal for moderators than someone saying "girls make up rape claims to get back at innocent guys,"

this is kind of a sign of something!

Well saying a documented fact that it does happen occasionally isn't wrong. It absolutely has happened before, granted i have no idea what that dudes point was, but regardless.

And you were insulting the guy. So yeah, i think the mods paying attention to hostility rather than censoring someone from saying something that actually does happen occasionally is pretty reasonable.

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deactivated-5e49e9175da37

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@rorie: Sorry this response took a while. I understand you haven't been unbusy by the looks of the last 30 posts.

I am capable of discussing these issues in a completely calm manner. The only time I ever upset is when I'm insulted which has not happened.

Samantha Allen's statements (or some of them) fit the definition of sexism, I will quite rightly call her a sexist. It would be no different if Jeff suddenly made some sexist remarks, or if I did.

When same person acts in a manner that fits the definition of hypocrisy, I will quite rightly call her a hypocrite. It would be no different if Patrick failed to practice what he preaches, or if I did.

When numerous anonymous people send threats and financial harassment towards people they don't like, I will quite rightly call them thugs. It would be no different it Dan tried to use mob mentality and criminal harassment to get his way, or if I behaved in that manner.

I understand that tone is difficult to judge through pure text, and I credit you attempting to protect or defend unpopular people like the aforementioned thugs who threaten Samantha Allen (or Samantha Allen herself), but I'm speaking in this manner to communicate my opinion. What helps me in no way to communicate is imputations of malice and 'rage' designed to emotionally lead others to ignoring my perspective. I speak resolutely and directly; that does not mean I am 'shouting'.

Sad. Whole thing is just sad.

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rorie

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@sarisa said:

@rorie Fair enough, but if saying "your opinion is terrible" is a bigger deal for moderators than someone saying "girls make up rape claims to get back at innocent guys,"

this is kind of a sign of something!

Well saying a documented fact that it does happen occasionally isn't wrong. It absolutely has happened before, granted i have no idea what that dudes point was, but regardless.

And you were insulting the guy. So yeah, i think the mods paying attention to hostility rather than censoring someone from saying something that actually does happen occasionally is pretty reasonable.

Bringing up false rape allegations, in this thread of all places, when we're discussing an issue where many women who have commented on Giant Bomb this week have received threats of rape and worse, is supremely misguided. Any and all such comments from that angle are going to be deleted from this point on and I'll be giving those people some time off.

It seriously depresses me that I have to say this. Have a modicum of empathy if you're going to comment in this thread or you will be leaving it.

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I wasn't around to see what happened but honestly don't care. All I want is to enjoy what the crew produces and, once in a while, interact with the community. Thank you Jeff. Thank you all of you guys. You always make my worst days feel the best days of my life.

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rorie

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@sarisa: I addressed the issue in my post below and would prefer that we not start this argument here. If you'd like to communicate about it in a PM to a user, feel free, but it is not a discussion I want to permit in this thread, of all places.

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sarisa

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@rorie Didn't see your post until after i posted, sorry.

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@sarisa: I figured that was the case; no worries.

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Edited By chilipeppersman

agreed. BUT do you think there is any way video reviews could return in the near future? I really miss those.

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@rm082e@shingro: If you're both actually interested in helping out, please read up on concern trolling and how what you're both doing is a perfect example of it. Or, failing that, please try to understand why it's not reasonable or fair to criticize marginalized people subjected to abuse the moment they express a 'political' opinion (as though defending the status quo is a neutral thing in itself) for not engaging dishonest and cruel people in any way other than to tell them their comments aren't wanted.

The invocation and incessant focus on the occasional expression of anger by people like Samantha Allen and Leigh Alexander who spend hours upon hours writing lengthy pieces about their experiences and the faults they see in the industry is -- how to put this politely -- misguided at best. Ignoring the context their words exist in -- brief expressions of frustration during the course of weeks/months/years of dealing with these exhausting issues and the people who oppose their input -- is... less good than that.

Just, man. Try to empathize a little? Please?

I do empathize. If I didn't empathize, I wouldn't have spent hours of my time over the last few days following, reading, trying to understand all sides, and then discussing this issue with you all here today. If I didn't care, I would just be ignoring this issue and going on about my day.

When you claim I am "concern trolling" you're saying I'm a troll. I think I've made it pretty clear I am not a troll. If you genuinely think I'm lying just to be a troll, fine. I can't convince you otherwise. But I'll say it again - I am not trolling anyone here. I want to be a part of a better internet, and I can only do that by expressing my opinion.

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Trision

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Soooo when's the next endurance run? Just joshing. Thanks for calling out the madness on both sides and being a great mod, Rorie.

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TheHBK

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I would do whatever Giant Bomb asks of me.

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@rorie said:

@sarisa said:

@rorie Fair enough, but if saying "your opinion is terrible" is a bigger deal for moderators than someone saying "girls make up rape claims to get back at innocent guys,"

this is kind of a sign of something!

I don't disagree. The mods and I are discussing how we're going to be approaching these kinds of threads in the future and we're going to do our best to tighten up how we police, as was mentioned in the very article that you're replying to. But those changes will take some time to come about.

Also, don't assume that you see all moderation actions. I have commented on many comments here directly, but there's also plenty of warnings, timeouts, and bans being given out behind the scenes.

Also, about this....I definitely don't wanna presume that I SEE ALL (moderation) or tell y'all how to do your job or anything, but...the best way to show that things are changing is not to go "shhh we got this there are things you might not see" but to be overt about it. Call people out, delete awful sexist (or w/e) posts, *ban* people, et cetera.

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chaser324

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chaser324  Moderator

@sarisa: While I think we can be clearer about the sort of behavior that we won't tolerate, we're never going to start publicly calling out specific people. Specific moderator actions against people are going to remain private.

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rorie

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@sarisa: While I think we can be clearer about the sort of behavior that we won't tolerate, we're never going to start publicly calling out specific people. Specific moderator actions against people are going to remain private.

To clarify here: I reserve the right to speak directly to people in threads if I feel like a warning or pointing out language that they're using is inapproriate will help a conversation get back on track. But if a comment becomes worthy of moderation, that is and has always been handled in private, even if I choose to respond to that comment with a condemnation (as I have many times over the past few days).

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rorie

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@nitrocore: This really isn't the place for meme posts.

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ultrapeanut

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@rm082e: I'm not calling you a troll. I'm saying that a thing you're doing is, willfully or not, a thing people seeking to derail conversations do. I'm saying that your point is heard and understood but needn't be focused on to the seeming exclusion of all other factors.

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Hey guys! How's it going?

What I miss?

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rorie

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@rm082e: I'm not calling you a troll. I'm saying that a thing you're doing is, willfully or not, a thing people seeking to derail conversations do. I'm saying that your point is heard and understood but needn't be focused on to the seeming exclusion of all other factors.

While I don't want either of you to feel like I'm attempting to silence you, I will say that your discussion feels like it is becoming circular. If you can't come to some kind of resolution to that discussion soon, it'd perhaps be best to take it to a PM or revisit it another day.

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Clonedzero

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@rorie: Uh, why the threat and accusation that i lack empathy? I wasn't even the one talking about it. I was merely saying open hostility towards other posters is a bigger deal than irrelevant pointless facts. I said nothing about the relevance or point of it. In fact i even said i had no idea what the guy was getting at.

But you're right, i totally lack empathy because i didn't want people to be hostile towards each other. Makes sense?

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rorie

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@clonedzero: If you don't feel like my comment pertains to what you said, then perhaps it wasn't. I know someone brought it up earlier in this thread, to which Sarisa objected, and I wanted to reiterate that it wasn't going to be permitted.

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Kept to myself this week, knew what would come of it. So glad I did. The core of this community is delicious.

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@rorie: My apologies, I couldn't seem to find the words to express the frustration I felt, that picture summed it up pretty well, so I went with it. But judging by the speed in which you deleted it, I guess this is no laughing matter, and I should stay away from posting things until all the fighting's over.

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Edited By Ronnzi

This is the first I have heard of this, but thanks for all of your hard work in keeping everything under control.

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Matterless

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Thank you, @jeff. In light of recent events I have been encouraged to become an even more active member of our community and to help keep it the fun and inclusive place I know that it is at its core.

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Cerebus

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I love Giant Bomb.

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cabbagesensei

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Edited By cabbagesensei

@brodehouse said:

...

Samantha Allen's statements (or some of them) fit the definition of sexism, I will quite rightly call her a sexist. It would be no different if Jeff suddenly made some sexist remarks, or if I did.

When same person acts in a manner that fits the definition of hypocrisy, I will quite rightly call her a hypocrite. It would be no different if Patrick failed to practice what he preaches, or if I did.

...

One of the things that me and many others are hoping is for people to not just "call out" others as sexists or bigots in a vacuum. Everything has a context, and if the people "calling out" don't first take the time to understand the context (especially when they are not a part of the underrepresented group they are "calling out"), then yes, it does sound like they are lacking some empathy.

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crazylittle

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@rm082e: You're talking sense.

@rangers517 said:

@crazylittle said:

These are both examples of "tone arguments" and they add nothing other than shifting the blame to the victims. @crushed posted an excellent allegory a page ago which demonstrates why the posts above do more harm, even if unintentional.

Calling a troll a troll does not slight the character of the person calling out the troll.

Having a topical avatar of the Macklemore controversy does not automatically make that person a troll. She didn't even bring up the avatar until a while after, anyway.

That also isn't the only person she told to fuck themselves. If you think Samantha Allen was justified in saying that because the person with the Macklemore avatar could have been a troll, please tell me what this person did wrong: https://twitter.com/Niko_of_Death/status/483893981265543168

If we're only talking about the argument for diversity at GB, I think Allen has done a poor job at getting people on her side. But, from reading her "I am a misandrist" post that's since been deleted, I don't think that was ever her intention.

Some of tranphobic slurs people have tweeted at her that are still up. I can still disagree with the way she presents her arguments and say that no one deserves that kind of abuse.

Re: the Macklemore avatar that Samantha Allen pointed out... A person defending themselves from twitter trolls does not need to identify, build evidence against, point out that evidence, and then show proof that a troll is a troll. Just having a racist caricature as one's twitter avatar should be an obvious "this person is a troll" flag. Are people seriously suggesting that victims treat their attackers with a generous heap of civility? That's kind of absurd, which is why I call such lines of argumentation "concern trolling."

Twitter user, "Niko_of_Death" similarly asked a stupid question:

And while the origin of the question may have been sincere it misses the point of the criticism that Samantha Allen was making. She said she was disappointed that -nobody- other than a "single/white/male" was hired... not specifically herself. It's driven home concretely when Allen points out that she didn't even apply for the position. This was readily apparent in previous tweets in context such that Niko's question probably shouldn't have been asked in the first place. Niko gives up the ghost and waves the troll flag in a later tweet that's not worth posting here.

So by focusing the conversation on Samantha Allen's tone, or behavior, it's 100% diverting the conversation toward a red herring that does more harm to the victims of these institutionalized problem. I'm simply asking people to stop marginalizing the gravity of their complaints by blame-shifting, concern-trolling, or asking questions: that are readily apparent, or questions that are already answered, or questions where the asker simply doesn't care to read the answer.

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GnaTSoL

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Edited By GnaTSoL

What is Jeff referencing here? What issues?

I haven't been browsing the message boards lately....

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Hailinel

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Re: the Macklemore avatar that Samantha Allen pointed out... A person defending themselves from twitter trolls does not need to identify, build evidence against, point out that evidence, and then show proof that a troll is a troll. Just having a racist caricature as one's twitter avatar should be an obvious "this person is a troll" flag.


Wait, what? Racist caricatures as avatars can be a sign of a troll, but not necessarily. An avatar of Macklemore's amazingly ill-thought Jewish caricature costume isn't necessarily a sign that the person is trying to be an asshole. They could be well aware of how utterly stupid that costume was and use the avatar out of irony. Or maybe he is a troll douchebag. I don't know. I really don't know anything about that particular poster other than his choice of avatar and the question he posed.

That is not a defense of the guy. I'm just saying this because judging by avatars alone is a ridiculous practice that Giant Bomb is far from immune to. I can't count the number of times that someone on these forums have had their opinions discounted because they have, quote-unquote "anime avatars." That sort of "judge a book by its cover" attitude has got to stop.

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smallville123

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@zornack said:

@smallville123 said:

I feel like i'm missing something here. What was this in regards to exactly?

There was genuine, valid discussion occurring regarding diversity in game journalism, which was promptly swept away by assholes on the internet and death/rape threats.

Jeeze

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weevils

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Keep up the great work guys. Best gaming / info resource around.

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deactivated-6050ef4074a17

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Once again, the reason we're unable to make any headway in this "discussion" is because some people are insistent on declaring themselves the referees and obsessing more on arguing rules and what's allowed and not allowed rather than just talking about the issue in direct terms.

The reason people here are saying stuff like "I hate men" and "Go fuck yourself" isn't helpful to the conversation is because it's not helpful to the conversation. That's what people keep getting told in these threads and comments sections over and over again. "Changes happens through this important conversation that we all must have with each other."

But then people want to be able to hurl insults and have it excused because they've suffered discrimination in the past, so it's okay. And you can't ask for a more civil tone, because you're obviously trying to silence them. And if anyone else goes overboard and does something insane like hurl death or rape threats, it's now all our collective faults and they have no obligation to respond to anyone else who is being civil. It's no wonder we're not having a "conversation" here. The actions of a minority of crazies are being held up as why people like Samantha Allen are justified in controlling all of the rules of the conversation.

I've seen a lot of debates in my time. I follow politics pretty closely and have witnessed a lot of religious and scientific debates too. Usually those conversations happen by two people coming to the table and agreeing to not go ballistic on each other. This subject seems to be the only one I can ever think of where one side is actively arguing that they reserve the right to say and do whatever they want, and if anyone disagrees, they're trying to silence them, or have no empathy.

I've been bullied a lot because of my sexuality. I don't think for a second that affords me the right to talk about how much I hate straight people.

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soulmanim3

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Well said!

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cabbagesensei

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@hailinel said:
@cabbagesensei said:

@hailinel: What about the rest of the points that @crazylittle made?

I'm not obligated to respond to every point.

Yes, you are not obligated. So then you pick and choose what points to respond to in order to "support" your opinion? Toss the rest to the side?