Obama Instructs CDC to Research Links Between Violent Media and Real-Life Violence

They can prise my videogames from my cold dead hands.

@Brendan said:

@GooieGreen said:

@billyhoush said:

What a waste of 10 million. I guess at the very least it will create some bullshit jobs in academia that may stimulate a bit of the economy.

No, you're right. We as a society know the impact of everything on everything.

As gamers, we know. We just do. Fuck you for using science to analyse something that my own personal experience as proven to be false, beyond all shadow of a doubt.

Yeah you know, like what the fuck are they saying that earth is round and the stars are other planets and other such rubbish! You see from my personal experience I don't see why I should believe anything that I can't experience myself.

For reals you should understand that even our most loved things can be absolutely biassed and we must accept that. If studies are done right, we can at least little bit minimize this illusion. I personally play violent video games and don't see that there is drastic changes with my attitude towards violence, but I understand that everything affects everything and it is very naive to say otherwise. I can't see any logical reason why we should not study this thing even through I don't personally think that there is straight causal link between videogame violence and irl violence.

I love how we'll entertain and investigate every potential cause of gun violence except for guns. 

I like how Gerstmann's picture in the IGN article is of the "sad cowboy" variety:

http://goo.gl/xsBlb

@sissylion: I am totally with you on the end goal. There has been limited time given to actual study of habitual reformation in the wake of violent media, as most of us only point to concurrent (and otherwise unrelated) data such as "Country X plays violent video games and has little crime, so it's obviously not the games."

As you say, there is merit in conducting these studies, even if to only prove that violent media isn't correlative enough to have a manageable effect. You are absolutely correct, and I'm sorry I was a dick about it. I'm studying Bio Anthropology, and my life currently entails hours of reading peer reviewed journals and detailing to professors why they might be full of shit. It's becoming a mere reflex. I should probably just avoid message boards...

@leejunfan83: It's Cathartic, a way of releasing tension and frustration. Last night my younger brother and I got on XBL and decided to play some Rainbow 6: Vegas 2 for the first time in forever. It's rated "M" for language and violence for sure, but it was a good way for us to blow off steam. I'm 29 and he's 26 so it's not really warping our brains or anything, but video games are an important part of our relationship as brothers who can use internet gaming to stay in touch as we go off, get married and have kids etc. Part of that process is overcoming a common enemy, and using teamwork and communication to get through levels.

@Phished0ne: I think the point about football is the more important one.

THEY'RE COMING FOR OUR VIDYA GAMEZ! GAAWWD!

I would prefer for them to do more to lessen the paranoid tone of the news media, stigmatise the appearance of the gun and actually enforce existing gun laws with a more well empowered ATF, may also help things.

Well, if the Government is so concerned about videogame violence, is it so hard to teach PARENTS to respect age restrictions and not buy CoD et similia for their 6-year-old kids? It's just that simple in my eyes.

this is not good for the future..

@HellBound said:

This is a joke.

First of all the CDC is a joke. They have a "Zombie Survival Guide". I mean really?

As a future scientist and researcher myself, in order to do good and ACTUAL research on this subject, they would have to spend years and years. Determining the developmental and mental affects something "violent" has on a person would take years. You would have to watch that person grow and develop. Not only are you straining ethics at that point, but also money.

The evidence is right in front of them. Millions of people play violent video games and movies. They have for years. The percentage of violent crimes based on that would show how it does not have an affect. The violent crimes that do happen can't necessarily be linked to violent media. Parental abuse is the biggest factor.

If someone can't tell the different from fake and reality, that is a mental issue. Research better ways to help the brain.

"I watched Django so killing White people who like Slaves must be good!" Am I doing it right?

Yeah, the institution that has overseen the elimination of some of the worst diseases in human history is a joke. Thanks for letting us know, internet scientist!

This really is the note that just keeps ringing throughout history. Why, I do believe there was a point a few hundred years ago when people said books were dangerous because they had the 'power' to change a person merely through interaction...and music...and movies...and plays...

Look world, forms of art give emotional reactions and, as video games actively encourage direct interaction in a way most other art forms do not (ex: you're not allowed to rush up on stage and start singing during a concert), it is generally easier to react to a strong emotional moment in a game (when it is done well) than in other mediums. Just what does this mean though? It means a person may become happy and cheer a bit during a triumphant moment, they may shed a few tears during a sad moment, they may start looking over their shoulder for a while after a horrifying moment, and, yes, they may get an adrenaline rush from an exciting action-packed moment. This does not mean a person will suddenly give all their stuff away to charity because they just beat the final boss, they won't commit suicide because Aeris just died, they won't become deathly afraid of the dark and ghosts for the rest of their life because they played Amnesia, and they won't become a mass murderer because they got a kill streak in Call of Duty; if any of these things happen, this is by no means normal behavior for a person and is certainly a sign of an underlying issue which had been building for years.

If you believe little Timmy will be 'scarred for life' if you let him watch The Exorcist and that he'll grow up to become a wonderful person if you bombard him with superheroes, then 1) you're not giving Timmy here much credit for his own ability to think and reason as a human being (yes, I know it's hard to believe for some people, but children think too) 2) you must have Timmy locked up in a closet if you think any media you give him is the only thing which will influence him while he's growing up and if so someone should really call the police for Timmy's sake and 3) if Timmy really is this impressionable why the hell are you giving him a game which is clearly marked as Teen or Mature when you hesitate to let him see any movie with so much as a PG rating?

This is a good thing. People keep calling for the government to do something about videogame violence because they believe there's a link between videogames and real world violence. Now (if the bill passes, which it probably won't) a federal agency will conduct the same studies we've been reading about for the past 10 years that show no link between videogames and real world violence, and none of these people crying for federal regulation of videogames will have a leg to stand on. They don't today, but at least now they'll be arguing with the very same studies they wanted conducted by the CDC.

It's sadly ironic (and maybe even good thing) that country that mongers war all over the planet is suddently seeing that there are problems with violent culture. You must remember that those violent games are just projection of this culture. Violent culture produces violent entertaintment.

Doing this (redundant) research is one thing but should it really be diverting resources away from the CDC's primary responsibility of preparing us for the zombie apocalypse?

as much as this is a waste of money for the government all other studies have concluded there is no link so i see no reason this one will. Then finally the stupid gun nuts can except that there needs to be gun control to reduce extreme violence.

If if the US decides that violent games are harmful, the game companies can continue to produce the games with all the violence they want, and just release a censured version on the US, like they already do in some countries like Germany and Australia. For the rest of the world we can continue to have our games unalreted with all the gore we like, and if some american wants the unaltered version they can buy some imported version.

@Sgtpierceface said:

Good. Now, hopefully this will stop getting brought up after every school shooting.

Maybe if there weren't so many school shootings...

When the ESA becomes more powerful than the NRA, then maybe we'll see a more balanced view of things. Until then, I expect every single politician to skirt gun control and make video games a scapegoat.

At first glance and without having a huge insight into the particulars of American politics this seems acceptable. Transparent appeasement, yes, but at least not a hasty move that's grasping at straws and throwing any sort of media under the bus as a scapegoat. Will be interesting to see what, if anything, ever comes off the research.

Since 1992--arguably right around the birth of sadistic video games--violent crime in the US has been cut in half.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooa98FHuaU0

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-1

10 million spent to tell us what we already know.

@Legion_ said:

@murisan said:

@Legion_: Vaporizing marijuana removes every single negative you listed, as does eating it.

EDIT: Also, half of your negatives are buuulllshiiiittt. source for depression, please.

"There are also links between marijuana and other mental health conditions. Marijuana use may trigger schizophrenia or detachment from reality (psychosis) in people who are at higher risk of psychosis. The symptoms of diagnosed psychotic illness and its course may be aggravated if marijuana use continues. There is also some evidence that teenagers who attempt suicide may be more likely to have used marijuana than those who have not made an attempt. As with marijuana use and depression, more research is needed to better understand these associations" - http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/marijuana-and-depression/AN01900

The key thing to latch onto is that more research is needed. I find that marijuana users (I have a lot of friends who use, and I've used before) tend to say that there are no side effects at all. That's just not true, and they're not interested in doing any research. So basically like smokers back in the day.

The problem with marijuana research(like a lot of drug research) is that it has vastly different effects on everyone who uses. It may cause depression, it may trigger schizophrenia. The key is MAY. Just like any prescription drug has a list the length of your arm of its side effects. You know, those depression meds that can cause certain people TO HAVE SUICIDAL THOUGHTS. But our government is happy to let companies peddle those pills to us, sometimes before the research is even in about their side-effects. Some drugs have no or negligible side effects for certain people. You say the smokers who you talk to say it has no side effects, well wouldn't that make sense? If you were taking a drug and it caused you massive stomach pain, wouldn't you stop using it? Of course the people you talk to that use would say that, because they are still using it arent they? Maybe they aren't trying to bullshit you, maybe they *actually* don't get side effects. Besides feeling sleepy sometimes and getting the munchies. Also, dont get me started about bullshit wording stuff "teenagers who attempt suicide are more likely to have used marijuana." Its just a bullshit connection they make to attempt to add strength to their argument.

@Stevemax said:

Re-posting from the other related thread.

My favorite Bullshit episode! i love the bit they do with taking the kid to the gun range, its the best way to end that episode. Such an impact, it really had an emotional effect on me, for how silly a show that is.

These research pieces are kind of pointless really, there are exceptions to every rule and statement but, there is one thing that is the same in every one of these incidents. That a human was the cause of such strife.

The human involved either felt shut off or was outcast, either physically or mentally (or both) from the world at large.

They're generally angry and seem incapable of emotion when they respond to questioning.

They also have difficulty in communicating.

It seems obvious that these study's have told us time and time again that games aren't the cause because people can distinguish reality from fiction.

Only people who either become disturbed or have always had a chemical imbalance will resort to games to feel a semblance of normalcy in their lives and then take it out onto the streets. But this points out something else. That this could done from most mediums of entertainment, be it books, movies, videogames, sport and many others.

It's not a thing's fault that humans go off the rails, it's either our fault as a societal species that no longer really has a society or community or the nutjob who needed treatment and friends but people wouldn't give him the time of day.

I do worry about this situation. I try to spread as much compassion as I can but general society has none. I mean look at London, New York or Paris, most people barely acknowledge each other on the streets going from work to home.

Most people don't a life outside of this cycle and it's sad.

I really hope this study helps more people realize this but I think I'm living in a fantasy world on this one.

Next time someone looks down engage them in cheering conversation, you may be stopping them from shooting everyone up at a school or hospital.

Isn't it disingenuous to blame video games instead of access to guns?

I mean, why not target the obvious & logically correlated root cause of the problem instead of disingenuously blaming something else?

Isn't it the responsible thing to do, in honoring the memory of many innocent victims, is to genuinely try to eliminate the root cause of the problem and eradicate its impact & suffering on society?

The exact same type of games are just as accessible in many parts of the world as it is in US. The only variable in the equation here seems to be access to guns, yet video games disingenuously end up the scapegoat everytime a random shooting event happen.

This is a joke.

First of all the CDC is a joke. They have a "Zombie Survival Guide". I mean really?

As a future scientist and researcher myself, in order to do good and ACTUAL research on this subject, they would have to spend years and years. Determining the developmental and mental affects something "violent" has on a person would take years. You would have to watch that person grow and develop. Not only are you straining ethics at that point, but also money.

The evidence is right in front of them. Millions of people play violent video games and movies. They have for years. The percentage of violent crimes based on that would show how it does not have an affect. The violent crimes that do happen can't necessarily be linked to violent media. Parental abuse is the biggest factor.

If someone can't tell the different from fake and reality, that is a mental issue. Research better ways to help the brain.

"I watched Django so killing White people who like Slaves must be good!" Am I doing it right?

@DeathsWind said:

Proven countless times before http://www.psychology.iastate.edu/faculty/caa/abstracts/2000-2004/02BApspb.pdf

A less than 20% increase in violent responses?

And not in action - the study was having them play games and then suggest possible next steps/endings to an ambiguous story. It didn't increase aggression but simply increased the expectation of violence from a fictional character.

Some of the "violent" responses cited in that study include "Call the guy an idiot", "Tell her how dumb her stereo is", and other such mundane things.

That is sort of a shit study, in regards to video games and violence, if you take the time to read it.

edit: Also, most of the references to other studies cited in that one? Other studies done by the authors - basically using their own studies to reinforce further studies to produce a desired outcome. They should have gone to more outside sources to verify their claims and findings.

How about movies?

@McGhee said:

@Superfriend said:

Wait, the guy who ordered more drone killings than any other president before him does that?

You´d think someone like that would have no problem with violence in games.. Well, if that will put his mind at ease. If this whole situation gets out of control and you guys end up with fucked up laws like Germany, I hope you fight it as much as possible.

For now: Nanny state: 1 - Any thinking individual: 0

Exactly. Isn't a drone attack the truest and realest definition of a "violent videogame?"

You're aware that this study is mainly a means to shut down people or congressmen sharing your political ideal right? This bill aims to reduce gun violence in the US and the reason that study is included in the package is to deflect any ''it's not the guns, it's the video games'' arguments. Necessary since, you know, right wing nutjobs will find any excuse to protect their rights to own a 50 clip military assault rifle and the Congress is now run by right wing nutjobs.

This has been researched countless times before, and nothing new will come from any further investigation.

Ugh, since when is a sensible mind not good enough anymore? Nowadays everything needs to be investigated. People that are already violent use violent games as an outlet for their ridiculousness, while people that aren't violent aren't suddenly becoming psychopaths because of a game.

If the research finally settles the debate, then I welcome it. I have a feeling that even if the research says there is no link, there would still be groups out there like the Australian Christian Lobby that will refuse to believe it.

This is much more an issue about ignoring mental health in this country, than it is about the tools they may use to carry out their twisted logic. I really don't know how we got to the point in this country of looking at everything else except the individual, but we need to back up the bus. If we don't, by this time tomorrow, Klepek is going to get hauled in for "Excessive Use of Video Game (Horror Genre)".

@HatKing said:

@Grixxel said:

All sorts of horrid shit has been happening since man learned to walk. Why would they think it has -anything- to do with media, period? Oh well, whatever pleases the idiotic masses I suppose.

Other countries do not have the gun violence problems that America has. Even countries without restrictive gun laws. There is something wrong here, and I think this is just a step to find out what. I mean, like he said, there is no benefit to not knowing if there is a link or not.

Some of us know, from experience, that in healthy-minded adults, there is no link between video games and gun violence, but this will be awesome for us to point to in reference whenever somebody tries to blame video games in the future. It will be pretty concrete evidence, and government supported precedence (this is super important!!), that there is no link. That's very, very valuable information for this medium.

I personally think it might have something to do with how limited our mental health care access is here. We have an awful healthcare system (both pre and post-Obamacare systems) and I think that it contributes heavily to these crazies going on shooting rampages.

They should take that 10 million out in quarters and distribute it to the county's youth for the express purpose of playing Ms. Pac-Man. That'd probably do more good.

First off, there are some rare cases linking violent media of any form to bad behavior resulting in injury or death but it's not as widespread as the government would like. If video games or what I have seen this debated on longer with horror movies/comics, just about anytime something new would be released whether it's GTA, Call of Duty or the new scary movie, we would start seeing riots the next day if not sooner from exposure to this media. Granted I loved the film 'In the Mouth of Madness' & maybe expecting this to happen like the government would like but since we are on the planet Earth, that's highly doubtful.

Secondly, while I'd trust the CDC to look in on biological matters they just don't seem like the right department for this so expecting this to result in vague answers.

Lastly, is one of my FAVORITE quotes related to this from a horror writing book but it applies here 100%. Sure it's on the idea of censorship & literature but points out that if there was violence from media, the censorship boards would be looking for new people constantly.

from Dark Thoughts on Writing
by Stanley Wiater

If there was any truth at all to what the censorship industry has been ramming down our throat for at least two centuries now, today's censors would be the first ones out there on water towers shooting us down with submachine guns! That's not the case. Which to me puts the lie to everything they have to tell us. These censors are not superheroes. These are not people graced with extraordinary powers of perception; they're just human beings who somehow claim they can digest this toxic material and then rescue us from its odious impact. While it has no impact whatsoever on them. I don't buy it. I never have, I never will. -Stephen R. Bissette

I've always wondered how people get selected for these types of studies. Also, I wonder how they test. Maybe they shouldn't look into violent video games, just frustrating shit games. Here's the study: Big Rigs - 5 hours.

Yep, the gun laws in your country are completely barbaric. It's just ridiculous

Video games are huge. Violent video games as well. Hundreds of thousands (and often millions) of people play them. If video games cause gun crime (or any type of violent behavior for that matter), wouldn't you see a ton more of it?

If it'll finally lay treating video games as a scapegoat to rest, power to em. (But I highly doubt it will, even if the findings are inconclusive as they always are with these studies.)

What a waste.

What's wrong with people these days. Why do you want to ban Mortal Kombat? It's a great video game and the violence doesn't cause any real crimes...

What a minute? I thought it was the early 90s all over again.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

- Albert Einstein

Pretty much.

--

Of course, I could go into a lengthy explanation on how I believe it's up to parents to actually parent their own child instead of relying on others to do it for them this includes the government and media of any form, or how news broadcasts are worse than any type of "violent media" because they outline to the very minute detail on how an actual murder happened so the next potential serial killer can easily do it themselves and get famous while they're at it or how correlation does not equal causation; the fact that because a serial killer owned a game console which is becoming as common as owning a television does not mean they where directly or indirectly influenced by said console or games played on it.

However, it would just be redundant due to the fact we already know all this because we are not close minded individuals here and also the fact that I have an actual paper to write on something completely unrelated due Monday.

Video Games

I think it's perfectly fair to study the link between violent media and gun violence, as long as it's conducted in a fair manner, and they aren't working backwards from a presumptive conclusion. Based on the statement given by the Obama Administration regarding this study, it sounds fine to me. It doesn't sound at all like the witch-hunt era in the 90s, with Tipper Gore and Hillary Clinton losing their minds about Mortal Kombat - and the industry has matured a lot since then. The ESRB is now a fact of gaming life, and just as legitimate of a rating system as the one used by the MPAA.

People hyperventilating about how terrible this is, need to chill the fuck out. Even Obama/Biden seem to be making clear that they aren't attempting to single out video games - which is also a marked change in tone from the 90s.

I hate the government, that is all.

There have already been studies into this and it is infact sports games that fire the most violent thoughts in the brain

Between the NRA, video game, and the other media industries, it just feels like representatives from each of these respective industries have been pointing their fingers at each other and saying, "nuh-uh, it isn't our fault! take away their freedoms, not ours!" since the shooting in Connecticut occurred last month.

Guns, video games, - it doesn't matter. Passing laws to restrict ownership or how products can be used won't solve the problem. Besides, we've all seen how well it goes when governments outlaw products and turn law-abiding citizens into criminals. I mean, no one bothers to try and get pot anymore, right? Guns that have been made illegal to own or sell are never used to commit crimes anymore. And let's not forget about the smashing success that was prohibition.

Rather then having the government encroach further upon our personal liberties, I'd like to see these industries exhibit some personal responsibility or the individuals who purchase or consume these products hold them responsible.

If there's one action I'd like to see the federal government take, its to increase the availability of mental health care and try to reduce the stigma associated with being diagnosed with a condition. Maybe then it won't be a mass shooting, stabbing, or some other hideous crime committed in public that reveals that an individual had a serious mental condition that went untreated.

Just remember, before video games the scapegoat was the Beatles and Elvis. Next generation it'll be something different. People need something to blame because our society is too damn stupid to realize that sometimes..it's JUST PEOPLE that are to blame. I'm smart enough to know that it's PEOPLE that are to blame. Not cars..guns..alcohol..hammers or drugs. PEOPLE. BUT..If I had to blame SOMETHING..I'd blame religion. There..I said it