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Sticking the Landing

Patrick's lengthy conversation with Entertainment Weekly writer Jeff Jensen on that ending, the concept of fan entitlement, and the perils of player agency.

No Caption Provided

UPDATE: Make sure you read my story from last week, too: "When It's Over, It's Over." I consider this a compliment to that.

--

[Note: This story does contain spoilers about the ending to Mass Effect 3 and TV show The Sopranos.]

The conversation about Mass Effect 3 continues, albeit one that's died down in the past week. That's unsurprising, as players wait to hear about BioWare's next move.

Will the studio change the ending? I'm betting not. Will the studio release downloadable content that provides more context and closure, and will that probably have been the plan all along? I'd say that's likely, but remains unclear.

As part of my story last week about the intense, polarizing, and government-filled reaction to the ending, I spent 30 minutes on the phone with Entertainment Weekly senior writer Jeff Jensen, himself a fellow Mass Effect fan, devotee at the shrine of Lost, and a frequent commentator on pop culture. Much of our conversation did not make it into my piece, but it felt worth sharing, especially the discussions about the concept of fan "entitlement," the precarious nature of endings, and the design struggles of player agency.

Let's contextualize this a bit, too.

This chat happened just as BioWare made its first public statement to fans, and Jensen had not finished the game, though he had read about the endings. As such, we didn't dive much into the narrative misgivings players with the final moments of Mass Effect 3 (which, believe me, I'm with you on), and focuses on the bigger picture.

Hope you enjoy it. It's a bit talky.

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Mass Effect 3 was the culmination of hundreds of hours of playing in a universe for many people.
Mass Effect 3 was the culmination of hundreds of hours of playing in a universe for many people.

Jeff Jensen: I’ll be honest with you, I only began playing Mass Effect 3 about a week and a half ago. I actually wasn’t really into it in the beginning, and I got distracted by other things, so I have to return to it, but catching up to the controversy is fascinating.

Giant Bomb: It’s interesting because, unlike other mediums, when there’s a television show, when theres’s a finale, or there’s a movie that’s a conclusion to some multi-part series, you can consume that in an hour-and-a-half, two hours. Mass Effect 3 took me 40 hours to finish. It’s not as simple as just booting it up one night so you can catch up, and find out what happened.

Jensen: You felt burned? Were you burned, personally?

GB: Not really. I was disappointed. They were going for something a little more audacious and bittersweet, and I do think a lot of the reaction has stemmed from that. A lot of people play these games to be the good guy that accomplishes everything, and video game endings, as a whole, the trope is that you’re the hero that’s unbeatable and everything turns out alright in the end. They went for something a little more mixed: things are out of your control. Bad things are going to happen no matter what you do, what choice you make. People have some real trouble processing that. Some wanted this “you saved the princess” ending that games have always have. Personally, as a player, it’s really important that they’re having this reaction. You don’t see that very often with a video game.

Jensen: A couple things about that. To prepare for this interview and other things that I’m working on, I actually went and read some sites and actually spoiled everything.

What I find interesting about what you're saying is that...it’s an interesting nuance that you’re talking about. It sounds like whatever scenario you choose, Earth blows up, right?

GB: Earth doesn’t necessarily get destroyed, but the mass relays do get destroyed. The thing that has allowed the universe to be unified, that goes away. In some sense, it’s the universe starting over. Some of them, Shepard dies, some of them, Shepard lives, but as far as I can tell, none of the endings I saw, and none of the endings I’ve read about, involve you saving the day in every capacity. There is no way, no matter what you do, that everything’s going to be alright for everybody. Bad shit happens at the end of Mass Effect 3, and there are consequences for that. I do think that’s part of the reaction--it’s an interesting reaction for BioWare to purposely provoke, but I think it’s an important one. In some way, it’s a commentary on the fact that these games are largely about player choice, and at the end, there’s a subversion of that. Part of this is out of your hands. Maybe that’s looking into it too much, but I do get a sense that there’s a purposeful subversion of the player to reflect that no matter what you do, bad things are going to happen.

Jensen: I really like what you’re saying. It sounds like what BioWare really wanted exactly the kind of dialogue that we are having here, which is, I think, they hoped we could get to the end and everyone that plays this game...it’s having exactly the kind of emotional experience that you’re having but also the kind of reflective experience that you’re having, which seems really worthwhile, and pretty quality. But instead, it gets unfortunately minimized into just the simple issue of satisfaction and catharsis and all that.

No Caption Provided

GB: Specifically, Lost was the first analogy that came to mind. I’m sure, as someone that writes a lot about TV and movies, you witness fan entitlement, or the sense of entitlement that fans feel when they’re on this long journey. Whether it’s a series of movies over several years or a TV show over several years, fans come to expect certain things. I’m curious what you’ve perceived over the years, whether from Lost or other shows and movies, how creators in those mediums deal with that sense of entitlement from fans, given the creators themselves have a vision in mind for how they want things to play out.

Jensen: What I would say that the controversies around the finales of Lost and Mass Effect and other examples, too, that we see in pop culture, like for example last year with the television show The Killing, which also kind of flummoxed a lot of people with how they ended the first season. What we are reminded of is that in entertainment, and especially in the mediums of television and video games, they are ultimately service industries. Which is to say the customer is always right, and that’s going to be frustrating for storytellers to hear because ultimately you exist, your product exists, at the whims and desire of your consumer base. If they’re happy, if they’re unhappy, they’re right. Even if they’re wrong, they’re right. You have to deal with it, right? You have to deal with it.

You look at BioWare’s response to this, the Facebook post last [week], and they are basically out there saying “We hear you, we understand your complaints, we’re looking at some possibilities about what to do, but we want you to know that we hear you.” This just goes to show that even if, behind the scenes, the creators at BioWare are like “Damnit, they didn’t get our story! To address the complaints represent a compromise of our artistic vision.” That sucks, but they’re right. You just have to deal with it.

The similarities between Lost and Mass Effect--there’s another similarity, too. Over the past decade in television, we’ve seen a creative medium come into its own and take some bold leaps forward, but there’s still some room to grow. I think after The Sopranos--or, more specifically, after Twin Peaks--I think a lot of TV storytellers became enamored with this notion that TV writing can be an art and I can be an artist, and I can have my own show and tell my own story and it’s my story, my world, my rules, and I’m going to tell you a story and you’re going to listen to it, and you’re going to follow it, and if I bring you to a certain end that is maybe not necessarily a happy ending or the ending that you want, it’s still my story. It has to be my story if it has any artistic integrity.

The audience push back is “no.” As much as the viewer benefits in this era of artist auteur television, in which the most interesting television is being made by singular creators with singular visions that are just telling their own story, viewers who become fans and who immerse themselves and give themselves over to it and devote so much time to thinking about it and talking about it and dreaming into it, they get a sense of ownership. Their agenda becomes projected onto your agenda. If you’re a writer, if you’re a television network, you benefit from that and you can’t run away from that because they’re keeping you in business. When you get to the end, sometimes what you have is this effect, this clash between shows that the artist, the writer, was creating and the show that the viewer, the fan, thought they were watching. When there’s no sync-up, there’s profound dissatisfaction. For the creators of Lost or the creator of The Sopranos, David Chase, that kind of sticks. At the very least, what you hope for is “Well, okay, you didn’t like my ending, but can you appreciate it? Or can we talk about it?” But, instead, that hopeful conversation gets swallowed up by the vitriol that comes with a more consumer orientation that’s more “I expected one thing and instead you gave me a lemon,” if that makes sense.

When The Sopranos faded to black without absolute resolution, not everyone was happy.
When The Sopranos faded to black without absolute resolution, not everyone was happy.

With video games, it’s interesting because I think video games are on a similar creative trajectory. Video games, the art of video games, has grown by leaps and bounds, I mean, ever since its introduction. The entire history of this medium is defined by radical innovation every other year, it seems. The exhilarating part of watching this industry is watching a medium of entertainment grow and blossom before its eyes, and there’s another aspect to it, too, which is very different from watching any other entertainment medium blossom over the past, you know, 100 years of pop culture, which is...I don’t know if people who were fans of movies or fans of rock music during the golden age of those periods said things like “it’s really cool now, but just wait 10 years from now, because we can all be where it’s going.” Video games are different. The best video games not only are really, really good, but as of right now, they capture your imagination for what they could be 10 to 15 years from now. We have this weird dilemma where we’re exulting what the medium can do, even as we’re bucking up against its limitations here and now. And that brings me to Mass Effect.

The interesting thing about Mass Effect is that it’s on the cutting edge of this whole idea of player choice. There’s a sort of choose your own adventure kind of thing. My dilemma playing Mass Effect is usually, as much as I really appreciate the idea and I understand what they go for and I understand how it affects the story, at the same time, I’m always keenly aware that it never really does what I really want it to do. There’s some kind of creative, artificial intelligence within the game that is constantly changing the game in robust, profound ways in response to your choices, instead of just shunting you to one, two or three other options that don’t feel dramatically different from each other. They’re not choose your own adventure games, it’s choose your own nuance games. It seems like Mass Effect 3 butts up against that, especially with its ending, and also butts up against something else, too, which is...hearing about the controversy about Mass Effect 3, it makes me wonder if the artist creators of the game over at BioWare, how much control over their storytelling do these artists really want to seed to the player?

At the end of the day, one of the exciting storylines that is emerging out of the past 10 years of video games are these creators who see video games as a means of artistic expression, a way of telling a story that expresses ideas that they want to challenge people with, that they want to get people talking to. And the most impactful way to do that is to limit potential interpretations and choices in a story, instead of opening it up open source like and making it everything you want it to be.

It seems to me that these possible endings that Mass Effect 3 gives us at the end of the game are like “Yeah, your choices throughout the game have affected your fate in terms of whether you live or die, they affect, to some degree, your character, but we still want a certain [set] of pre-determined endings that are designed to facilitate the certain point that we have about the world, certain ideas that we want you consider, certain conventions that we want to debunk, and pursuing an artistic agenda like that is tricky when you also want to create a game in which the player, in some ways, is being lead to believe they are the defining artistic decision maker in the game, if that makes sense.

No Caption Provided

GB: There’s definitely that rub between the player and the creator. An unintended consequence of BioWare’s player choice model was an end where players felt like they were gonna have more agency over that conclusion. And maybe it's not so much that they had written their own ending in their mind, but they’d made all these decisions along the way. Knowing game development, a lot of this is largely just a function of they have 18 months to produce a thing, so there’s only so many outcomes they can produce in X amount of time, but my large takeaway from all of this is that it’s a positive thing, showing how much players can care about a story.

But you’re right, once you’ve handed over the keys of the kingdom to the player, they also expect certain things. You can fall back to the passive entertainment experience excuse with TV and movies because the interactive part happens on the periphery and the creators can always retreat back to saying “at the end of the day, what matters is what’s canonical in the television series--that’s a passive experience that we’re writing and presenting.” But games aren’t that way. Mass Effect is definitely totally separate from that--it’s not just you shooting from the beginning of the level to the end of the level. You’re choosing which characters live and die, which races live and die, which planets survive and don’t. Once you’ve given people that power, you’ve opened the box, the genie is out of the bottle. Players feel like they should have this unique impact on this world and how it plays out, and it’s what makes the world "entitlement" feel...it doesn’t seem to work as well for the reaction. Entitlement’s a really easy word to apply to it, but in some sense, players should feel entitled when they’ve been told they’re the ones who are entitled to make these decisions.

When they get to an end that isn’t satisfying, an end where BioWare says they want to make a statement, that goes directly contrary to the player and the agency they had during that experience. I imagine, as a developer, that’s really tough, especially as games try to embrace this whole cinematic appeal and trying to take what lessons they can from other mediums. Games are inherently interactive, and when you start to take steps further to involving player in the story, you’re going to have consequences for the player’s emotional reaction when you take that away from them.

Jensen: There’s something that you’re also touching on here that I really like, which is a really good point. Regardless of your story, whatever medium you’re experiencing a story, what do we want from endings is a really big picture topic here. Some of the themes that you talked about at the beginning of our conversation here come into play, things like the video game experience offers you the chance to be a hero, and hero stories are all about taking their fate into their own hands and are able to impose their will on a world. They may succeed, they may fail, a lot of that depends on skill, but they get to impose their will on the world for better or worse. You go into a very long journey in which you are executing this kind of heroic function--you expect the opportunity to save the day. You think that should be an option that’s available to you, and, in this case, that’s not. In that way, a traditional ending, or what we want from an ending to that kind of story, is subverted. In other ways, just in general, what we want from endings is catharsis, especially a series finale.

When BioWare opened the box with players choices, it opened itself to this kind of reaction.
When BioWare opened the box with players choices, it opened itself to this kind of reaction.

Even though my guess is we may not see the Mass Effect the franchise, it seems to me what was being presented to us was that this is the end, this is the last game at least with this character, in a really involving, immersive, creative endeavor. Here, we really do see analogs to things like Lost or The Sopranos, where a fan base that’s large and rabid and loyal and passionate and really, really invested--they’re not only getting what the final game or final episode, the end of a story, they’re getting the door slammed on a huge part of their lives, a significant thing in their lives. To that end, an ending, then, must give you something more. There’s an expectation of something more. There’s something like a massive emotional catharsis. The ending of Lost really tried to go for that, they tried to win on emotion. “This is the end for all of us, my friends, and we’re all going away, in more ways than one. It’s been a long journey--bittersweet, sad, wonderful, joyous.” And they send us out with tears and a surge fo emotion. Lost completely triumphed int hat regard, but in other areas that people were expecting, the more intellectual areas, payoffs of certain storylines that people were invested in and mysteries that they were really invested in, the storytellers never said “We’re not necessarily as interested in that.” For a lot of people, that was a huge part of that entertainment experience, and they didn’t get it. The catharsis was incomplete.

There seems to be a similarity here with Mass Effect 3, with a fan base that has gone through these games and come to the end, and they want the full meal catharsis--they want everything. They want a heroic end, or the possibility of a heroic end. They want an emotional send-off, they want resolution of certain mysteries, and they all want it to be coherent and skillfully done, and all that. It sounds like Mass Effect just didn’t nail that landing.

GB: When I watched the end of Lost, the emotional arc worked perfectly fine. Yes, I was there for the mysteries and that was the fun of the week-to-week nature of that show, but at the end, I got the emotional closure with each of the characters. It’s different from player to player, just as with each viewer of Lost or any other television show. But with Mass Effect, what they brought to the end was, yes, the mysteries were important, and, yes, the resolution of the conflict with the Reapers was important, but it was the player’s agency. People talk about it in terms of the ending, but it was really just about these very binary choices presented in front of you that didn’t seem to reflect the agency that players had brought in throughout this entire adventure. As a result, they didn’t get get closure through their own agency, which was the motivational factor for these three games, which is why they brought their saved games from one game to the next. It’s interesting to see BioWare run into that as they start to contemplate how they address the reaction.

Jensen: I’m reminded of that whole idea of the observer effect, as well as schrodinger's cat. There’s a world of possibilities inside that box, until you get to the end and you get to the action of opening that box, and looking at it, and in that moment, then, all possibilities collapse and one remains, and only that option remains. Ultimately, then, this experience that was defined by the romance of mystery and possibility suddenly now becomes only defined by this one concrete resolution.

I’m reminded that with Lost--this is a show, week after week, captured your imagination and allowed you to dream into it an infinite number of possibilities and they were really good and clever about it. “What is going on? What is going on?” The interesting thing that happened about the end of Lost is that I honestly think the ending of Lost was an attempt by the show runners to actually communicate a specific point that they had, but while retaining, for the viewer, the quality that they identified as the defining characteristic of Lost, which was mystery, which was should the legacy of this show be one in which we’re still debating and still wondering and theorizing and still speculating years afterwards. I think they thought that by not being clear and concrete and definitive on many of the mysteries that people wanted resolved, they felt they were remaining thematically and artistically true to their creative enterprise and the entertainment experience that we had, which was the conversation about it, the debating about it, the comparison of theories about it, the arguing over it. They tried to thread that needle right at the end with an ending about, “how can we give closure and how can we end the story on our terms that is also satisfying to the audience but is true to the greater whole of this show?” Tricky, tricky. Because it makes you aware that you fundamentally usually watch something and endings usually come to us.

When we get an ending to a story or a final chapter of a story or a final shot, you realize that they’re fundamnetally different animals than the entertainment experience that preceeded it as a whole. The entertainment experience that preceeds an ending is all about sustained tension and sustained mystery, and that final thing is just resolution.

Colored endings may have seemed clever on paper, but players did not respond very well.
Colored endings may have seemed clever on paper, but players did not respond very well.

Endings often just can’t win. Most screenwriters will tell you the hardest part of any movie, any story to tell, is just the end. It’s the thing that changes the most, it’s the endings that are the most fought over among collaborators, they’re the things that are just the hardest to land. Some people get it really, really right, some people get it really, really wrong, and some people land anywhere in-between and our attitudes about them can change. The thing about controversial endings, though, is this: five years from now, my friend, we will all say that the ending of Mass Effect 3 was genius! We’ll catch up to it.

I’m not going to say that people feel that way about Lost, but I would say that people feel that way about The Sopranos. Many, many years after the ending of The Sopranos, The Sopranos just ignited a storm of “oh, that was genius! Genius!” “Genius? Are you kidding me? They wimped out! They didn’t have the guts to tell us what they wanted!” Which is the final fate of Tony Soprano. Defenders of that finale said “Yes, they did. Don’t you get it?” and the people who hate it go “Wait, you’re saying that I’m stupid?” And you go into that downward spiral. Years later, the truth of the matter is, the people who hated it then are probably no greater fans of it now, but in the cooling of it all, the cooling of the vitriol, there is some appreciation. There is grudging appreciation in that camp of “I get what he was saying. I get what he was going for.” And, ultimately, what you remember is that “I defined my enjoyment of that series not by that final moment, but by seven, eight seasons of the greatest television show even written.” That’s how we remember The Sopranos. I think that’s how that’s the fans of Lost are going to remember that show. I think that, for better or worse, the final season of that show will be remembered as something of a cautionary tale. I happen to love it. Do I love it as much as the five seasons before? No, but I really respect and like and was moved by what they did. I think, the further we get away from Lost, it will get more defined by the things that it did right and revolutionary versus the issue of audience satisfaction.

I think Mass Effect as a franchise, these three games taken together, I just can’t see how it’s not regarded as anything less than a landmark. There’s so many things to enjoy about these games and this world and the creative accomplishment of this series than just those final moments. When I played those first two games, the narrative arc of it is maybe one of the things I like the least. I love the way it looks, I love the character design, I love these worlds--there’s so much to really enjoy and love about it. Given some time, people will remember all of what they loved about this thing and now the resolution of it all.

Patrick Klepek on Google+

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Dezztroy

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@cavemantom: Actually, Drew Karpshyn had the end of the trilogy thought out before ME1 was done. This ending is foreshadowed in both ME1 and 2, but Casey Hudson thought it would be a good idea to scrap that for the third game and let Mac Walters write a complete new ending. Walters is a bad writer, hence why the ending is bad.

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AMonkey

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The Mass Effect 3 ending was terrible, end of. If you disagree you are a moron (yet I'm going to be that elitist). If you think the complaints about ME3 ending happen to be about it not being happy enough; you're a moron. If (like Brad Shoemaker unfortunately seemed to think in the podcast) you think its just fan whining and entitlement; you're a moron.

The ending shoved in a bunch of deus ex machina (LITERALLY), destroyed the plot of previous games, made nothing you did in over 70 hours of play matter, leaves the galaxy in peril and left a whole other bunch of questions. You're reward for picking different endings was the exact same cinematic. You never get closure on what happens to your crew or how their lives, even a portion, play out.

But should Bioware change the ending? I don't know.

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Ghostiet

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@AMonkey said:

The Mass Effect 3 ending was terrible, end of. If you disagree you are a moron (yet I'm going to be that elitist). If you think the complaints about ME3 ending happen to be about it not being happy enough; you're a moron. If (like Brad Shoemaker unfortunately seemed to think in the podcast) you think its just fan whining and entitlement; you're a moron.

The ending shoved in a bunch of deus ex machina (LITERALLY), destroyed the plot of previous games, made nothing you did in over 70 hours of play matter, leaves the galaxy in peril and left a whole other bunch of questions. You're reward for picking different endings was the exact same cinematic. You never get closure on what happens to your crew or how their lives, even a portion, play out.

But should Bioware change the ending? I don't know.

This.

And I feel the same way about changing it. It sucks and I felt insulted by it, but at the same time I don't want to feel like I'm part of a screen test. Expanding upon it seems the most sensible thing to do, but I am afraid how will they expand on it. Still, it will either be a) lazy or b) so detailed everyone will think it was part of a marketing strategy to sell us the ending, and that's going to be disgusting.

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@selbie said:

@LiquidPrince said:

@Dunchad said:

@selbie said:

@MrWizard6600 said:

@pyrodactyl, thanks for the video, 39 minutes well spent. You spend so much of your time online in flame wars its easy to lose perspective, props to this guy for not doing that.

Great video. This really explains why I had certain feelings towards the story but could never pinpoint what it was exactly.

Great video with some sound arguments. More people should watch that in order to gain some perspective (i.e. it's not just about wanting a happy ending).

@patrickklepek: Pretty interesting discussion, even though some of the assumptions that the premise was based on, are faulty. Keep it up!

The video has so much misinformation it's not funny. Not a good video at all...

Misinformation such as....?

Misinformation such as: They don't introduce the goal of the Reapers in the third game in the final moments... The discussion with Sovereign from the first game and then Harbinger in the second explains all the reasons the Reapers do what they do. To keep balance, to ensure that lower species have time to evolve etc... The reason they destroy advanced life is because they get so advanced they create synthetics, and cause war among themselves that affects the whole galaxy, limiting the growth of primitive species. Star child essentially says the same thing. I don't like misinformation or selective information...

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trucksimulator

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@LiquidPrince said:

Misinformation such as: They don't introduce the goal of the Reapers in the third game in the final moments... The discussion with Sovereign from the first game and then Harbinger in the second explains all the reasons the Reapers do what they do. To keep balance, to ensure that lower species have time to evolve etc... The reason they destroy advanced life is because they get so advanced they create synthetics, and cause war among themselves that affects the whole galaxy, limiting the growth of primitive species. Star child essentially says the same thing. I don't like misinformation or selective information...

What sort of revisionist silliness are you doing? Sovereign and Harbinger considered Shepard incapable of comprehending their intentions. They were a mystery up until the very end of the third game.
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deactivated-6050ef4074a17

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I came into this wanting to make a long post about how irritating it is that the fan outrage is getting so completely mischaracterized by people like Patrick and Brad, and plenty of others, but several people here have done it already. I'm so tired of hearing about how people are whining about the ending because it isn't happy enough, or some such nonsense. People are unhappy with the ending because it's just bad in a whole variety of ways. Such long and specific and comprehensive accounts as to why seem to get ignored in favor of a stupefying and reductive way of viewing the situation, apparently just so some people, including some in the bomb crew, can smugly dismiss the sentiment and feel better about themselves without having to expend the mental energy necessary to actually understand anything about it.
 
I'm divided on whether I think Bioware should change the ending, but I don't buy into any of this "artistic vision" garbage. I suppose I understand that there are some people that don't actually think the ending is as bad as most people seem to, but I've been spurned too many times by pseudo-spirital gobbledygook infecting great science fiction.

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Dezztroy

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@LiquidPrince said:

@selbie said:

@LiquidPrince said:

@Dunchad said:

@selbie said:

@MrWizard6600 said:

@ pyrodactyl, thanks for the video, 39 minutes well spent. You spend so much of your time online in flame wars its easy to lose perspective, props to this guy for not doing that.

Great video. This really explains why I had certain feelings towards the story but could never pinpoint what it was exactly.

Great video with some sound arguments. More people should watch that in order to gain some perspective (i.e. it's not just about wanting a happy ending).

@ patrickklepek: Pretty interesting discussion, even though some of the assumptions that the premise was based on, are faulty. Keep it up!

The video has so much misinformation it's not funny. Not a good video at all...

Misinformation such as....?

Misinformation such as: They don't introduce the goal of the Reapers in the third game in the final moments... The discussion with Sovereign from the first game and then Harbinger in the second explains all the reasons the Reapers do what they do. To keep balance, to ensure that lower species have time to evolve etc... The reason they destroy advanced life is because they get so advanced they create synthetics, and cause war among themselves that affects the whole galaxy, limiting the growth of primitive species. Star child essentially says the same thing. I don't like misinformation or selective information...

Huh? The goal of the Reapers is to save the galaxy, to put it simply. Their goal has always been to use advanced life to construct new reapers to find the one species that will be able to stop the expansion of dark energy in the galaxy, as was hinted throughout both ME1 and 2 (Remember how Harbinger says something along the lines of "Your doom will be your salvation"? Yeah, the human Reaper being built in ME2 was to be the one to actually stop the dark energy, therefore saving the galaxy).
 
Of course, that was before Casey Hudson and Mac Walters decided to throw out the old script and replace it with this garbage.
 
I'd recommend watching this video:   
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@purplethoughnotquite said:

@Gaff said:
An article that explores the difficulties of combining interactivity and storytelling, writing for an audience and how hard it is to finish a story "actually" is about how gamers are entitled and petulant children and how our gripes with the ending are completely ignored by the elitist press. Good job, GB community. Good job.
Your point is dismissing the fact that this article is IN CONTEXT of the ME3 ending. I'm like a broken record here. As much as you want to detach it from the focal topic, it's not going to change the fact this has ME3 in mind. Yes, people are focusing on the same two points, but that doesn't make their arguments invalid. A bit misguided, but not invalid in relation to to all the press and what's actually written in the article.

"Yeah, that's just like my ex-boyfriend, he always did this and this, cheated on me, lied to me and blah blah blah blah blah..." Sorry, terrible sense of deja vu.

I'm sure that people have valid gripes about their former lov... the ending to ME3 - lack of closure for the universe, inconsistent character behaviour, deus ex machina, etc - but bringing it up whenever the discussion turns to ME3, endings, BioWare, EA, videogames, or tomorrow's weather forecast doesn't do the argument any favours.

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benderunit22

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They really miss the point about the backlash at ME3's ending.

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Olqavtoras

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Great article Patrick!

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deactivated-6050ef4074a17

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@Distrato said:

This entire debacle has just caused me to stop taking gaming journalism seriously.

Here are two reasons why I'm upset.

1. Reviewers are blind to the fact that the game is riddled with horrid dialog, forced drama, and ridiculous plot. If you honestly wanted the medium to be considered "art" you would raise your standards. To even compare Mass Effect to truly masterful works is just insulting. I hate to say but I don't view that as an opinion. Mass Effect is on par with the Mona Lisa? No, its not and to say something like shows the people who you want to convince so much that we are all still immature and uncultured.

2. This whole thing has made me see that developers and reviewers are far too close to each other. As David Jaffe said, "you get paid by the advertisers, you get paid by actual salary, you don't get to be a fan. You are a journalist first." No one is critical in this industry. Gaming sites appear to be nothing more than a catalog for gamers to browse through. Its just unfortunate that no one but Erik Kain seems to understand the fundamental problems with the practices Bioware and EA are doing. I applaud actual journalist like Patrick Klepek who uncovered things like the Infinity Ward/Activision incident. Now it seems as though integrity is dead and nobody wants to question or call out any developers for their bullshit. No one speaks for the gamers.

http://www.forbes.com/games/

Do you see that? That is far more journalistic than anything I've seen since I've started going to video game websites. If you are a real journalist then find stories and be critical of the industry.

This deserves as much requoting as possible. This entire industry is incredibly incestuous. Reviewers pal around with developers for the social cashet, critics play nice with publishers for early review copies and exclusive coverage, "journalists" come off like public relations for game companies as if they're just super thrilled to be along for the ride. Even Giant Bomb is fast becoming part of this problem when, once upon a time, that wasn't as much the case. How crazy is it that the people coming off most serious and respectable in their jobs in this whole debacle are glorified bloggers working for Forbes? No game site like Giant Bomb, Gamespot, Destructoid, IGN, or others, no longstanding luminaries of the games press; Forbes.
 
The Batman DLC issue last fall made me really intensely bitter toward how close and buddy-buddy this industry is, but this issue has only brought the incestuous nature of games media to the forefront in a much bigger way. There is literally no one standing up for an incredibly large group of people that have very well thought out and fair explanations for their outrage. Nobody but Forbes, of all people. And there's absolutely no one in the games sites that I can think of that seems to be making any effort to oppose this trend. Nobody wants to actively oppose or risk getting kicked out of the clique, and even when they do, it seems like even sites like Giant Bomb eventually get sucked back in.
 
There is no one of any stature standing up for us. Literally no one. We are completely defenseless.
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WiqidBritt

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Edited By WiqidBritt

@Dezztroy: where are you getting the "stopping the expansion of dark energy" thing from? The only thing I remember that had something to do with a 'dark energy mystery' was on the planet Haestrom in ME2

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Dezztroy

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@WiqidBritt said:

@Dezztroy: where are you getting the "stopping the expansion of dark energy" thing from? The only thing I remember that had something to do with a 'dark energy mystery' was on the planet Haestrom in ME2

From Drew Karpshyn's script for ME3.
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morden2261

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BahamutZero

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I am a HUGE fan of the Mass Effect games, I love how I as the player can make decisions that make the story that unfolds from those choices unique to me, and the sole reason I play these games is because of the story, I never really played it just picking Paragon or Renegade, I made the choices I felt were necessary at the given situation, ME1 had the best story arc by far but the game-play was not great but alright, ME2 had a good story but felt smaller in scope when compared to the first one however the game-play was incredibly superior, ME3 felt disappointing when compared to ME1 & ME2, I felt that the story became more of an afterthought and that game-play became the focus, not all the decisions i had made seemed to matter only the "big" choices were taken into account, sure maybe a few of the minor ones but not all, I understand not everything made the cut but i had hoped that truly all my choices made an impact, still I really enjoyed the game, I felt even with all the plot holes and "are u fucking kidding me" moments i still liked it even took the day of from work to play the game all day, and although i felt it was the weakest of the 3 i loved it i couldn't stop playing. Then i got to the crucible and wow, i just couldn't believe it i was like WTF, i got three options and i picked one, i saw the ending movie, the credits, the after credits vid, and i felt empty inside, i was like oh shit, then i though oh man maybe it was just that all the decisions i made led to this, maybe i caused all of this, what i felt was a fucked up ending, but then i went online to see all the other endings to see how everyone else endings played out, and after i saw all 16 of those endings and i felt empty inside like i had been robbed of something great, those ending take nothing i did over the span of those 3 games into account, its like they ignored what had happen and said here pick one, it doesn't matter which one cuz they are all the same, basically eat this shit sandwich and like it, those "endings" are bullshit, i don't care if Shepard died in all of them, its just how they did it, i mean who the hell was that fucking kid, why couldn't i speak with him or shot him, if EDI had anti reaper tech why couldn't i hack the reapers and make them take swan dive into a black hole, even if Shepard had to die in every single outcome, the endings should have taken into account all of the choices i had made and the ending played out based on them, and each ending should have been unique to each player, instead we got one awful, plot hole filled, BS finally in 16 different colors

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Humanity

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It's fine if, as they debate in this over lengthy analysis of just a typical bad ending, the authors wanted to make a point with this specific conclusion to the series. Whats not fine, is that they built these three games around the notion of choice - only to strip that away in the end so they can tell you their story. When you're three games and neck-in-promises deep, maybe thats not the best time to suddenly lay down your creative vision on people. Further still they could have still went with whatever they felt the radical statement should be - just make it into one of the endings. I never understood the notion of baiting the audience with one thing only to give them something compeltely different. Thats why to this day I'll argue the Lost finale that Patrick things is so adequate was terrible - because the show was built on mysterious that people wanted to know the answers to. The TV network advertised every single episode of the final season as "All your answers will be answered next week!" - and they never were answered. You're left high and dry, six seasons later, still unclear about some mysteries from season one and you're supposed to feel good about it because the author has maintained the overall theme of mystery? The sense of entitlement is completely justified when people spent time and money vested in your product, based on your promises. Next time around when it comes time to promo your game have the developer sit on a couch in shorts and sandals and say "well were gonna do whatever so buy it or not we don't care" and then no one will have any illusions about what they're getting into.

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fistfulofmetal

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Edited By fistfulofmetal

It's disappointing to see a medium that is so close to it's fans completely no understand what the fans are saying. To focus on the idea that we all just wanted a "happy ending" is a bit insulting when there's literally dozens and dozens of videos/articles out there that go into detail how poor the ending is from a narrative point of view. And also to completely ignore the concept of Developer lies and how the misrepresent the end product as well.

I love Giantbomb.com but I never want to read another article, watch another video, or listen to another podcast where they discuss this backlash because it comes off as people closing their eyes and ears and ignoring what people are actually saying.

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Mike76x

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I would be happy with a simple explanation from Bioware.

Either:

"The ending you saw is it. We completely ignored every fact and all the lore we created throughout three games, suck it."

or:

"Shepard was indoctrinated, buy more DLC bitches!"

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algertman

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ME3 is the best example of the gaming press completely failing. Game as art? Sorry, but until reviewers can actually be critical you can forget that. The biggest thing holding gaming back at the moment is the game press and bloggers. These people are in the back pocket of the companies and ME3 proved it.

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dropabombonit

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Great article tricky, this is the most measured discussion you will read about the ME3 controversy on the internet

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deactivated-57f027c6197c3

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I think the gaming press' reaction to Mass Effect 3 really demonstrates how big the gap is between gaming journalists and gamers themselves. It's not something the gaming press can be blamed for: Gaming journalists don't have the same amount of time to dedicate to individual games as gamers do, or share the same investment in a series that a dedicated fan might have. On the one hand, this is a good thing, since it allows journalists to be objective in criticizing and reviewing a game. On the other hand, they aren't able to fully relate to the perspective of the audience for whom they write.

Journalists have had to endure complaints from gamers since the beginning of written reviews (For example, response to Jeff's 8.8 review of Twilight Princess back in '06). It's only natural that reviewers are willing to dismiss vocal groups within the gaming community as "angry fanboys," and dismiss their complaints entirely in their minds. The problem is, even when gamers can provide legitimate complaints regarding a game, or take issue with an actual issue, journalists may still write them off as "fanboys venting their anger."

I look at the IGN video by Colin Moriarty, and see a jaded gaming journalist venting his own anger. Nevermind the irony of him attempting to argue that "games are art" when it is his job to make a science out of playing and reviewing games: The bigger problem is that he is completely out of touch with his audience, and has the audacity to accuse everyone who might take any issue with ME3's ending of having "entitlement" issues.

I honestly believe Giant Bomb is one of the last safe havens of honest and critical game reviews. However, just because they're the best doesn't mean that they are completely and 100% in touch with their audience. Articles such as this (which manages to miss some of the biggest points and most obvious complaints) and the recent ME3 ending discussions on the podcast demonstrate this. But can the journalists really be blamed entirely? It's the fault of gamers that we are currently in this mess: The fault of the louder vocal minorities within broader vocal minorities, who have driven the press to this point and made them apathetic towards their audience.

tl;dr: It is man's lot in life to complain.

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deactivated-5b463a5162604

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missed the point.

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babblinmule

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The comments on this page give me more justification as to why I try and hide that I'm a gamer in real life. You people are embarassing.

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prestonhedges

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Oh, I get it now.

This article is just these two guys' way of defending the endings to Lost and the Sopranos. They barely even mention Mass Effect 3.

Wow. It's like when someone screams at someone else at work and you think, "Are they happy at home?"

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jasaldo_1

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Edited By jasaldo_1

if you don't like the ending of mass effect 3 just go play mass effect 2 and suicide yourself :D

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Mike76x

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@Aegeri said:

@mutha3 Not to mention, that ME3 and ME2 actually spend a good chunk of their story SUBVERTING the concept that AI will always destroy their creators - especially for a Paragon Shepard. This makes the final part of the game even more pants on head stupid.

ME1 mentions it too.

The Geth never turned on their creators, they only defended themselves until the Reapers got involved.

Plus the Catalyst is capable of turning the massively destructive force of an exploding relay (as learned in paid DLC) into rainbow love sprinkles.

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Edited By gbrading

I think dragging TV shows into this article was unwise. Television is nothing like video games whatsoever. In a TV show, the action continues irregardless of viewer interaction, and it will only ever end one way. In video games, we have the illusion of free will. I think people have reacted so badly to the end of ME3 because it exposed how controlled and per-determined the game really was. People don't like it when you take their free will away. To say "the ending is an artistic expression and once it's done it's done" is a mistake. If they were true artists, they would acknowledge their failure to create a masterpiece.

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Sooty

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@algertman said:

ME3 is the best example of the gaming press completely failing. Game as art? Sorry, but until reviewers can actually be critical you can forget that. The biggest thing holding gaming back at the moment is the game press and bloggers. These people are in the back pocket of the companies and ME3 proved it.

Yep.

I still don't understand how L.A. Noire reaped in 9/10s and so on from almost everywhere, but that's an entirely different matter.

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Vertrucio

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It's funny because a a few minutes before the botched ME3 end, there's a moment that would have been perfect to cut to credits, mission accomplished.

There still would have been ambiguity and plenty of plot holes left open for exploration, they would have kept the sense of closure that the rest of the game imparted, without arbitrarily destroying the story. If you want to talk about the courage to tell a story people don't want, Bioware should have had the courage to not put an arbitrary choice at the end of the game, and have the courage to play out all the decisions the plays made down to their really bittersweet ends.

I find it funny how they're trying to present this as some enlightened argument of creator artistic integrity versus fans. But we're talking here about a cliche crappy ending that is not only cliche in video games, it's cliche across so many forms of media. It's like trying to defend the artistic integrity of Dead or Alive extreme beach volleyball.

My response to all this talk from various media about gamer entitlement and artistic integrity is that maybe they should have given us a good ending that wasn't an intellectually bankrupt cliche in the first place.

Every creator that means to sell his product should rightly feel the pressure to create a good product from start to finish.

This is not gamer entitlement, not screaming masses, this is the real truth. If you sell poorly made stuff, you should get shafted. However, because of the medium, and the desire to experience the product fresh, we can't place the right kind of pressure on them early on, they have to do it themselves, or they have to get input from people that they allow to see it.

And this is coming from a creator as well. I've seen the damage that can happen when the creators work in a vacuum. I have had ideas I've written up only to have my critique group rightfully call me out on how bad the concept is, but also how I can change it to work and still keep artistic integrity. When I get my own studio, I would fire any writer that tried to lock himself in a room to write something alone. Sure, I would also empower a writer to make the hard decisions on how a story goes.

But, forget the talk of creator's rights and notions of changing the ending afterwards and let's get to the real issue.

The ending sucks. And yes, a lot of other game endings suck.

But, more importantly, it doesn't have to be that way.

I think we've reached a point where we're starting to get pretty fed up with how bad the endings are in our games. It's sad when Gears of War 3, a machismo laden action shooter, ends way better than the story and character spectacular of the year, Mass Effect 3.

Oh and don't give me that journey is the game and end argument. Because the game is the entire package, especially for someone who plays games primarily for story, as in the complete story. A good book that ends terribly is brought down by that ending. A gymnast that performs excellent but can't stick the landing is docked points. A car that's a smooth ride, but can't get you that last 5 miles home would be traded in.

Maybe if I was writing a work of fiction that really explores the human condition I would stand up for anything I wrote and be justified. But this is a scifi space opera that ends like a bad 2010 Space Odyssey fanfic. Which is even worse because 99% of the game is wonderful up to that point. But, since many players and I play for story, and story is ruined by the ending as presented to us, especially so for anyone who has kept track of the fiction over time.

I've noticed a lot of other creative types have been quick to jump in on Bioware's defense, especially in the plethora of news articles, and from game media writers. They often do this without having finished the game, as here. Not only that, these game reviewers are supposed to be the ones protecting us from botched endings like this. So instead of getting on Bioware's case, they get behind the paper shield of artistic integrity and creator's rights.

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Edited By therabidfrog

I'm not fond of the gaming as art hypothesis, but if you believe gaming is or can be art you have no right to complain. If gaming is art it has to transcend consumer demand in favor of intellectual or artistic value.

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jakonovski

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@therabidfrog said:

I'm not fond of the gaming as art hypothesis, but if you believe gaming is or can be art you have no right to complain. If gaming is art it has to transcend consumer demand in favor of intellectual or artistic value.

Like Mona Lisa right?

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MideonNViscera

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This is still going on? Get over it.

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Mike76x

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@gbrading said:

I think dragging TV shows into this article was unwise. Television is nothing like video games whatsoever. In a TV show, the action continues irregardless of viewer interaction, and it will only ever end one way. In video games, we have the illusion of free will. I think people have reacted so badly to the end of ME3 because it exposed how controlled and per-determined the game really was. People don't like it when you take their free will away. To say "the ending is an artistic expression and once it's done it's done" is a mistake. If they were true artists, they would acknowledge their failure to create a masterpiece.

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20094627,00.html

1985 Bobby Ewing was killed in the TV show "Dallas"

1986 He returned after fan boycotts

Firefly was cancelled, and thanks to fan demand we got the movie Serenity.

If anything TV shows are more interactive as they depend on regular ratings to gauge how a show will continue.

What people don't like is spending time with something and then finding not that your choices don't matter, but fundamental facts of the game world itself don't matter, or make any logical sense.

An ending that seems as if it were written by someone that knew nothing of the game it was meant for.

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jakonovski

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Edited By jakonovski

I am a tad disappointed. I'm sure Patrick's sentiment is honest (it's Giant Bomb after all), but the article so carefully avoids making direct criticisms of Bioware that I can't take it seriously.

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pyrodactyl

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Edited By pyrodactyl

Since this video is the most thought out, intelligent analysis of the ending and game journalists/reviewers seem to be totally ignoring what the discussion is even about I'll post it once again

@LiquidPrince said:

@selbie said:

@LiquidPrince said:

@Dunchad said:

@selbie said:

@MrWizard6600 said:

@pyrodactyl, thanks for the video, 39 minutes well spent. You spend so much of your time online in flame wars its easy to lose perspective, props to this guy for not doing that.

Great video. This really explains why I had certain feelings towards the story but could never pinpoint what it was exactly.

Great video with some sound arguments. More people should watch that in order to gain some perspective (i.e. it's not just about wanting a happy ending).

@patrickklepek: Pretty interesting discussion, even though some of the assumptions that the premise was based on, are faulty. Keep it up!

The video has so much misinformation it's not funny. Not a good video at all...

Misinformation such as....?

Misinformation such as: They don't introduce the goal of the Reapers in the third game in the final moments... The discussion with Sovereign from the first game and then Harbinger in the second explains all the reasons the Reapers do what they do. To keep balance, to ensure that lower species have time to evolve etc... The reason they destroy advanced life is because they get so advanced they create synthetics, and cause war among themselves that affects the whole galaxy, limiting the growth of primitive species. Star child essentially says the same thing. I don't like misinformation or selective information...

And you totally missed the point of the video @LiquidPrince

You also didn't even listened to what the guy said and are missremembering the events of the games yourself. Before the end of ME3 we know the motivation of the reapers is harvesting organic life forms as a evolution mechanism. Just rewatch the end sequence of ME2.

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shamanick

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Edited By shamanick

It's amazing how "journalists" like Klepek keep misrepresenting the main problem fans have with this ending. At this point it's really difficult to believe that it isn't willful ignorance.

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Mabui

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Edited By Mabui

I was sort of hoping this article would have a "Updated: Here's how his thoughts have changed since actually beating the game"  But there was none - seems like an article that should have waited. 
 
Aside from my dislike of how lazy Mass Effect 3 seems, especially at the ending, my biggest surprise is how I felt about the choices that were made, the consequences my character suffered from DLC that I never bought into/played. 
 
I went into Mass Effect 3 with lowered expectations, after having played, and been completely boggled by the choices of Dragon Age's sequel.

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LiquidPrince

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@pyrodactyl: @selbie: @purplethoughnotquite: @Dezztroy: Soveriegn essentially explains it in the first game...

Harbinger expands upon this.

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Vertrucio

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Edited By Vertrucio

There are some vocal radicals muddying up the waters. But honestly there are radicals on both sides in every argument. To pay attention to them as if they were the majority is an insult to any sort of discourse.

Also, Bioware, and some game writers talk about them having planned the ending to have this kind of response. That is utter BS. It's PR smoke screen talk to make it sound like they knew what they were doing. There's an actual skilled PR rep for various corporations who was also a ME fan going around breaking down exactly what all the stuff that Bioware was saying really meant, or calling them out on statements that were pretty much textbook PR smokescreen for bad decisions. That was one of them.

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trucksimulator

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Edited By trucksimulator
@LiquidPrince said:

@pyrodactyl: @selbie: @purplethoughnotquite: @Dezztroy: Soveriegn essentially explains it in the first game...

Harbinger expands upon this.

You are reaching for something that isn't there. What we learn from Sovereign and Harbinger is not nearly as revealing as the end of ME3 with the catalyst. Did you even watch your own video?
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vashstyle

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Edited By vashstyle

Where is all this talk of "artistic vision" coming from?? I don't understand. ME3's ending was vague, convoluted, jarring, and sudden. That doesn't make it "open to interpretation," it makes it lazy and half-assed. Mass Effect has always been about moral choices and their consequences, you can't end such a series open-ended and write it off as "art." If Bioware wants me to believe they have any artistic integrity, they should have displayed it in their finished product.

It's just so clear that this game was rushed to meet EA's financial needs and the ending suffered because of that. I think that's what's upsetting people more than anything. I just hope there's someone at Bioware yelling at some hapless EA executive right now because of this shit.

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Vertrucio

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Edited By Vertrucio

For all of Bioware's talk of wanting players to deal with ambiguity, just looking at those videos reminds me of how much they slammed the door in the face of the mystery and ambiguity of their own setting when they blurted out the final lines of ME3 that demoted reapers into nothing more than just that, stupid machines that go around killing all advanced life, just to kill all advanced life because some star baby told them to.

The previous video was trying to get the point across that Bioware itself has gone back and destroyed the very interesting, mysterious, and ambiguous essence of the Reapers.

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mutha3

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Edited By mutha3
@LiquidPrince said:

@pyrodactyl: @selbie: @purplethoughnotquite: @Dezztroy: Soveriegn essentially explains it in the first game...

Harbinger expands upon this.


"you exist because we allow it, and you shall end because we demand it" 
 
"We are the pinnacle of evolution. Before us, you are nothing. Your extincition is envitable. We are the end of everything"
 
uh
 
did you even watch your own video?
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jakonovski

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"you exist because ghost kid allows it, and you shall end because ghost kid demands it" "You are the pinnacle of evolution. Before us, you are pretty in-depth. Your extincition is easy to prevent. Just go talk to ghost kid."

FIFY

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trucksimulator

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@jakonovski said:

"you exist because ghost kid allows it, and you shall end because ghost kid demands it" "You are the pinnacle of evolution. Before us, you are pretty in-depth. Your extincition is easy to prevent. Just go talk to ghost kid."

FIFY

THIS HURTS ME
 
hah
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Pseudonymous

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I'm not angry with Bioware... just disappointed :o(

The ending may have been great for Bioware staff, but they didn't make the game for themselves to enjoy.

The Mass Effect Trilogy always belonged to US (The Players). They're (Bioware) not in this business to make art, they're in it for the money like any other business. Anyone can call themselves an artist as long as they are the sole creator of the art in question.

Example: I draw someone's face. Then I hand the picture to my girlfriend and she draws a lil bit more. She then takes the picture to her friend... who also adds to it. At this point the persons face I drew is not recognized and is not my creation or my "art", nor is it my g/f's art or her friends either. It's not art at all because the idea didn't come from just 1 persons vision.

Same as ME3, it's not art because it's not just 1 persons vision or interpretation. If Casey Hudson made the game all by his lonesome then it would be considered art. We the "Gamers" have all the power to destroy a Company like Bioware or make it thrive. That all depends on how happy we are with the products they sell, just like any other company.

I listened to a podcast interview with Casey Hudson before the release of ME3, at about half way into the interview he starts talking about the testers of the game and how happy they were with the finished product... well Casey you were lied to. Those "testers" either never played ME1/2 or were probably afraid to lose their jobs if they told you what they really thought of the game (The ending mainly).

My only complaint is the extreme lack of closure. Which seems they made it that way on purpose to not ruin the entire series for people who haven't played ME1/2 yet. In turn... it ruined the game for the dedicated Players who have put the time and money in the 2 previous games (DLC and all). I'm tired of companies trying to broaden their audiences only to ruin it for the " true fans" of the game. I don't need a happy ending with butterflies,unicorns, & rainbows... but why the hell not? The game revolves around choice... so why don't i have that choice? I would've been happier with a "Slide Show" Ending like Fallout, at least then I would have more closure and felt like my ME3 experience was 100%.

Epilogue :

a. is a piece of writing at the end of a work of literature or drama, usually used to bring closure to the work.

Closure :

a. A bringing to an end; a conclusion

b. A feeling of finality or resolution, especially after a traumatic experience.

None of this existed in ME3 sadly :(

You can't complete a story without these... So the question is ... Where are they?

The game is incomplete obviously. DLC Perhaps? Bioware better do something if they want to keep the company in business. I won't be pre-ordering anything from them until I read reviews after a game is released. They cannot be trusted with my money any longer.

Bioware forgets the golden rule of business... THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!

Lost and Sopranos are TV Shows that you didn't have to pay for. Sopranos required HBO but you were not just paying for the show... those are poor comparisons to an interactive video game you have to pay for in order to enjoy. No relevance beside the endings sucked.

Movies,Books, & Games are not art, They contain forms of art but are not art by themselves. They are simply products you buy for entertainment.

I just Finished Silent Hill 2 HD and all 7 endings were totally different and satisfying... a game that was made over a decade ago can hit the mark, Why can't the games of today follow suit??

This is just my opinion... so don't get all trolly on me.

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kbeaver818

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Most of LOST's mysteries were answered within the show. I don't know what Patrick was getting at.

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@Pseudonymous: While I kinda get your point, your view of art does preclude movies and a lot of music from being art as well, and I don't think Ebert would approve of the former. Literature and strictly visual art (sculptures, paintings, photographs) are pretty much the only things that have one sole person making them, most other art forms are team efforts.
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@purplethoughnotquite: @mutha3: Uh yes I did... Are you guys not hearing something that I am... "The pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom. Organic civilizations rise, evolve, advance. And at the apex of their glory, they are extinguished." "Your civilizations is based on the technologies of the Mass Relays, our technologies. By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire." "You exist because we allow it, and you shall end because we demand it."

How are those lines not the base seeds for what the starchild says...? Obviously they aren't going to reveal the whole of the plot in the first game, and maybe the plan evolved slightly as the third game went into development, but for the most part these are very clear seeds that culminate in the end of Mass Effect 3...