Something went wrong. Try again later

Giant Bomb News

567 Comments

Sticking the Landing

Patrick's lengthy conversation with Entertainment Weekly writer Jeff Jensen on that ending, the concept of fan entitlement, and the perils of player agency.

No Caption Provided

UPDATE: Make sure you read my story from last week, too: "When It's Over, It's Over." I consider this a compliment to that.

--

[Note: This story does contain spoilers about the ending to Mass Effect 3 and TV show The Sopranos.]

The conversation about Mass Effect 3 continues, albeit one that's died down in the past week. That's unsurprising, as players wait to hear about BioWare's next move.

Will the studio change the ending? I'm betting not. Will the studio release downloadable content that provides more context and closure, and will that probably have been the plan all along? I'd say that's likely, but remains unclear.

As part of my story last week about the intense, polarizing, and government-filled reaction to the ending, I spent 30 minutes on the phone with Entertainment Weekly senior writer Jeff Jensen, himself a fellow Mass Effect fan, devotee at the shrine of Lost, and a frequent commentator on pop culture. Much of our conversation did not make it into my piece, but it felt worth sharing, especially the discussions about the concept of fan "entitlement," the precarious nature of endings, and the design struggles of player agency.

Let's contextualize this a bit, too.

This chat happened just as BioWare made its first public statement to fans, and Jensen had not finished the game, though he had read about the endings. As such, we didn't dive much into the narrative misgivings players with the final moments of Mass Effect 3 (which, believe me, I'm with you on), and focuses on the bigger picture.

Hope you enjoy it. It's a bit talky.

-

Mass Effect 3 was the culmination of hundreds of hours of playing in a universe for many people.
Mass Effect 3 was the culmination of hundreds of hours of playing in a universe for many people.

Jeff Jensen: I’ll be honest with you, I only began playing Mass Effect 3 about a week and a half ago. I actually wasn’t really into it in the beginning, and I got distracted by other things, so I have to return to it, but catching up to the controversy is fascinating.

Giant Bomb: It’s interesting because, unlike other mediums, when there’s a television show, when theres’s a finale, or there’s a movie that’s a conclusion to some multi-part series, you can consume that in an hour-and-a-half, two hours. Mass Effect 3 took me 40 hours to finish. It’s not as simple as just booting it up one night so you can catch up, and find out what happened.

Jensen: You felt burned? Were you burned, personally?

GB: Not really. I was disappointed. They were going for something a little more audacious and bittersweet, and I do think a lot of the reaction has stemmed from that. A lot of people play these games to be the good guy that accomplishes everything, and video game endings, as a whole, the trope is that you’re the hero that’s unbeatable and everything turns out alright in the end. They went for something a little more mixed: things are out of your control. Bad things are going to happen no matter what you do, what choice you make. People have some real trouble processing that. Some wanted this “you saved the princess” ending that games have always have. Personally, as a player, it’s really important that they’re having this reaction. You don’t see that very often with a video game.

Jensen: A couple things about that. To prepare for this interview and other things that I’m working on, I actually went and read some sites and actually spoiled everything.

What I find interesting about what you're saying is that...it’s an interesting nuance that you’re talking about. It sounds like whatever scenario you choose, Earth blows up, right?

GB: Earth doesn’t necessarily get destroyed, but the mass relays do get destroyed. The thing that has allowed the universe to be unified, that goes away. In some sense, it’s the universe starting over. Some of them, Shepard dies, some of them, Shepard lives, but as far as I can tell, none of the endings I saw, and none of the endings I’ve read about, involve you saving the day in every capacity. There is no way, no matter what you do, that everything’s going to be alright for everybody. Bad shit happens at the end of Mass Effect 3, and there are consequences for that. I do think that’s part of the reaction--it’s an interesting reaction for BioWare to purposely provoke, but I think it’s an important one. In some way, it’s a commentary on the fact that these games are largely about player choice, and at the end, there’s a subversion of that. Part of this is out of your hands. Maybe that’s looking into it too much, but I do get a sense that there’s a purposeful subversion of the player to reflect that no matter what you do, bad things are going to happen.

Jensen: I really like what you’re saying. It sounds like what BioWare really wanted exactly the kind of dialogue that we are having here, which is, I think, they hoped we could get to the end and everyone that plays this game...it’s having exactly the kind of emotional experience that you’re having but also the kind of reflective experience that you’re having, which seems really worthwhile, and pretty quality. But instead, it gets unfortunately minimized into just the simple issue of satisfaction and catharsis and all that.

No Caption Provided

GB: Specifically, Lost was the first analogy that came to mind. I’m sure, as someone that writes a lot about TV and movies, you witness fan entitlement, or the sense of entitlement that fans feel when they’re on this long journey. Whether it’s a series of movies over several years or a TV show over several years, fans come to expect certain things. I’m curious what you’ve perceived over the years, whether from Lost or other shows and movies, how creators in those mediums deal with that sense of entitlement from fans, given the creators themselves have a vision in mind for how they want things to play out.

Jensen: What I would say that the controversies around the finales of Lost and Mass Effect and other examples, too, that we see in pop culture, like for example last year with the television show The Killing, which also kind of flummoxed a lot of people with how they ended the first season. What we are reminded of is that in entertainment, and especially in the mediums of television and video games, they are ultimately service industries. Which is to say the customer is always right, and that’s going to be frustrating for storytellers to hear because ultimately you exist, your product exists, at the whims and desire of your consumer base. If they’re happy, if they’re unhappy, they’re right. Even if they’re wrong, they’re right. You have to deal with it, right? You have to deal with it.

You look at BioWare’s response to this, the Facebook post last [week], and they are basically out there saying “We hear you, we understand your complaints, we’re looking at some possibilities about what to do, but we want you to know that we hear you.” This just goes to show that even if, behind the scenes, the creators at BioWare are like “Damnit, they didn’t get our story! To address the complaints represent a compromise of our artistic vision.” That sucks, but they’re right. You just have to deal with it.

The similarities between Lost and Mass Effect--there’s another similarity, too. Over the past decade in television, we’ve seen a creative medium come into its own and take some bold leaps forward, but there’s still some room to grow. I think after The Sopranos--or, more specifically, after Twin Peaks--I think a lot of TV storytellers became enamored with this notion that TV writing can be an art and I can be an artist, and I can have my own show and tell my own story and it’s my story, my world, my rules, and I’m going to tell you a story and you’re going to listen to it, and you’re going to follow it, and if I bring you to a certain end that is maybe not necessarily a happy ending or the ending that you want, it’s still my story. It has to be my story if it has any artistic integrity.

The audience push back is “no.” As much as the viewer benefits in this era of artist auteur television, in which the most interesting television is being made by singular creators with singular visions that are just telling their own story, viewers who become fans and who immerse themselves and give themselves over to it and devote so much time to thinking about it and talking about it and dreaming into it, they get a sense of ownership. Their agenda becomes projected onto your agenda. If you’re a writer, if you’re a television network, you benefit from that and you can’t run away from that because they’re keeping you in business. When you get to the end, sometimes what you have is this effect, this clash between shows that the artist, the writer, was creating and the show that the viewer, the fan, thought they were watching. When there’s no sync-up, there’s profound dissatisfaction. For the creators of Lost or the creator of The Sopranos, David Chase, that kind of sticks. At the very least, what you hope for is “Well, okay, you didn’t like my ending, but can you appreciate it? Or can we talk about it?” But, instead, that hopeful conversation gets swallowed up by the vitriol that comes with a more consumer orientation that’s more “I expected one thing and instead you gave me a lemon,” if that makes sense.

When The Sopranos faded to black without absolute resolution, not everyone was happy.
When The Sopranos faded to black without absolute resolution, not everyone was happy.

With video games, it’s interesting because I think video games are on a similar creative trajectory. Video games, the art of video games, has grown by leaps and bounds, I mean, ever since its introduction. The entire history of this medium is defined by radical innovation every other year, it seems. The exhilarating part of watching this industry is watching a medium of entertainment grow and blossom before its eyes, and there’s another aspect to it, too, which is very different from watching any other entertainment medium blossom over the past, you know, 100 years of pop culture, which is...I don’t know if people who were fans of movies or fans of rock music during the golden age of those periods said things like “it’s really cool now, but just wait 10 years from now, because we can all be where it’s going.” Video games are different. The best video games not only are really, really good, but as of right now, they capture your imagination for what they could be 10 to 15 years from now. We have this weird dilemma where we’re exulting what the medium can do, even as we’re bucking up against its limitations here and now. And that brings me to Mass Effect.

The interesting thing about Mass Effect is that it’s on the cutting edge of this whole idea of player choice. There’s a sort of choose your own adventure kind of thing. My dilemma playing Mass Effect is usually, as much as I really appreciate the idea and I understand what they go for and I understand how it affects the story, at the same time, I’m always keenly aware that it never really does what I really want it to do. There’s some kind of creative, artificial intelligence within the game that is constantly changing the game in robust, profound ways in response to your choices, instead of just shunting you to one, two or three other options that don’t feel dramatically different from each other. They’re not choose your own adventure games, it’s choose your own nuance games. It seems like Mass Effect 3 butts up against that, especially with its ending, and also butts up against something else, too, which is...hearing about the controversy about Mass Effect 3, it makes me wonder if the artist creators of the game over at BioWare, how much control over their storytelling do these artists really want to seed to the player?

At the end of the day, one of the exciting storylines that is emerging out of the past 10 years of video games are these creators who see video games as a means of artistic expression, a way of telling a story that expresses ideas that they want to challenge people with, that they want to get people talking to. And the most impactful way to do that is to limit potential interpretations and choices in a story, instead of opening it up open source like and making it everything you want it to be.

It seems to me that these possible endings that Mass Effect 3 gives us at the end of the game are like “Yeah, your choices throughout the game have affected your fate in terms of whether you live or die, they affect, to some degree, your character, but we still want a certain [set] of pre-determined endings that are designed to facilitate the certain point that we have about the world, certain ideas that we want you consider, certain conventions that we want to debunk, and pursuing an artistic agenda like that is tricky when you also want to create a game in which the player, in some ways, is being lead to believe they are the defining artistic decision maker in the game, if that makes sense.

No Caption Provided

GB: There’s definitely that rub between the player and the creator. An unintended consequence of BioWare’s player choice model was an end where players felt like they were gonna have more agency over that conclusion. And maybe it's not so much that they had written their own ending in their mind, but they’d made all these decisions along the way. Knowing game development, a lot of this is largely just a function of they have 18 months to produce a thing, so there’s only so many outcomes they can produce in X amount of time, but my large takeaway from all of this is that it’s a positive thing, showing how much players can care about a story.

But you’re right, once you’ve handed over the keys of the kingdom to the player, they also expect certain things. You can fall back to the passive entertainment experience excuse with TV and movies because the interactive part happens on the periphery and the creators can always retreat back to saying “at the end of the day, what matters is what’s canonical in the television series--that’s a passive experience that we’re writing and presenting.” But games aren’t that way. Mass Effect is definitely totally separate from that--it’s not just you shooting from the beginning of the level to the end of the level. You’re choosing which characters live and die, which races live and die, which planets survive and don’t. Once you’ve given people that power, you’ve opened the box, the genie is out of the bottle. Players feel like they should have this unique impact on this world and how it plays out, and it’s what makes the world "entitlement" feel...it doesn’t seem to work as well for the reaction. Entitlement’s a really easy word to apply to it, but in some sense, players should feel entitled when they’ve been told they’re the ones who are entitled to make these decisions.

When they get to an end that isn’t satisfying, an end where BioWare says they want to make a statement, that goes directly contrary to the player and the agency they had during that experience. I imagine, as a developer, that’s really tough, especially as games try to embrace this whole cinematic appeal and trying to take what lessons they can from other mediums. Games are inherently interactive, and when you start to take steps further to involving player in the story, you’re going to have consequences for the player’s emotional reaction when you take that away from them.

Jensen: There’s something that you’re also touching on here that I really like, which is a really good point. Regardless of your story, whatever medium you’re experiencing a story, what do we want from endings is a really big picture topic here. Some of the themes that you talked about at the beginning of our conversation here come into play, things like the video game experience offers you the chance to be a hero, and hero stories are all about taking their fate into their own hands and are able to impose their will on a world. They may succeed, they may fail, a lot of that depends on skill, but they get to impose their will on the world for better or worse. You go into a very long journey in which you are executing this kind of heroic function--you expect the opportunity to save the day. You think that should be an option that’s available to you, and, in this case, that’s not. In that way, a traditional ending, or what we want from an ending to that kind of story, is subverted. In other ways, just in general, what we want from endings is catharsis, especially a series finale.

When BioWare opened the box with players choices, it opened itself to this kind of reaction.
When BioWare opened the box with players choices, it opened itself to this kind of reaction.

Even though my guess is we may not see the Mass Effect the franchise, it seems to me what was being presented to us was that this is the end, this is the last game at least with this character, in a really involving, immersive, creative endeavor. Here, we really do see analogs to things like Lost or The Sopranos, where a fan base that’s large and rabid and loyal and passionate and really, really invested--they’re not only getting what the final game or final episode, the end of a story, they’re getting the door slammed on a huge part of their lives, a significant thing in their lives. To that end, an ending, then, must give you something more. There’s an expectation of something more. There’s something like a massive emotional catharsis. The ending of Lost really tried to go for that, they tried to win on emotion. “This is the end for all of us, my friends, and we’re all going away, in more ways than one. It’s been a long journey--bittersweet, sad, wonderful, joyous.” And they send us out with tears and a surge fo emotion. Lost completely triumphed int hat regard, but in other areas that people were expecting, the more intellectual areas, payoffs of certain storylines that people were invested in and mysteries that they were really invested in, the storytellers never said “We’re not necessarily as interested in that.” For a lot of people, that was a huge part of that entertainment experience, and they didn’t get it. The catharsis was incomplete.

There seems to be a similarity here with Mass Effect 3, with a fan base that has gone through these games and come to the end, and they want the full meal catharsis--they want everything. They want a heroic end, or the possibility of a heroic end. They want an emotional send-off, they want resolution of certain mysteries, and they all want it to be coherent and skillfully done, and all that. It sounds like Mass Effect just didn’t nail that landing.

GB: When I watched the end of Lost, the emotional arc worked perfectly fine. Yes, I was there for the mysteries and that was the fun of the week-to-week nature of that show, but at the end, I got the emotional closure with each of the characters. It’s different from player to player, just as with each viewer of Lost or any other television show. But with Mass Effect, what they brought to the end was, yes, the mysteries were important, and, yes, the resolution of the conflict with the Reapers was important, but it was the player’s agency. People talk about it in terms of the ending, but it was really just about these very binary choices presented in front of you that didn’t seem to reflect the agency that players had brought in throughout this entire adventure. As a result, they didn’t get get closure through their own agency, which was the motivational factor for these three games, which is why they brought their saved games from one game to the next. It’s interesting to see BioWare run into that as they start to contemplate how they address the reaction.

Jensen: I’m reminded of that whole idea of the observer effect, as well as schrodinger's cat. There’s a world of possibilities inside that box, until you get to the end and you get to the action of opening that box, and looking at it, and in that moment, then, all possibilities collapse and one remains, and only that option remains. Ultimately, then, this experience that was defined by the romance of mystery and possibility suddenly now becomes only defined by this one concrete resolution.

I’m reminded that with Lost--this is a show, week after week, captured your imagination and allowed you to dream into it an infinite number of possibilities and they were really good and clever about it. “What is going on? What is going on?” The interesting thing that happened about the end of Lost is that I honestly think the ending of Lost was an attempt by the show runners to actually communicate a specific point that they had, but while retaining, for the viewer, the quality that they identified as the defining characteristic of Lost, which was mystery, which was should the legacy of this show be one in which we’re still debating and still wondering and theorizing and still speculating years afterwards. I think they thought that by not being clear and concrete and definitive on many of the mysteries that people wanted resolved, they felt they were remaining thematically and artistically true to their creative enterprise and the entertainment experience that we had, which was the conversation about it, the debating about it, the comparison of theories about it, the arguing over it. They tried to thread that needle right at the end with an ending about, “how can we give closure and how can we end the story on our terms that is also satisfying to the audience but is true to the greater whole of this show?” Tricky, tricky. Because it makes you aware that you fundamentally usually watch something and endings usually come to us.

When we get an ending to a story or a final chapter of a story or a final shot, you realize that they’re fundamnetally different animals than the entertainment experience that preceeded it as a whole. The entertainment experience that preceeds an ending is all about sustained tension and sustained mystery, and that final thing is just resolution.

Colored endings may have seemed clever on paper, but players did not respond very well.
Colored endings may have seemed clever on paper, but players did not respond very well.

Endings often just can’t win. Most screenwriters will tell you the hardest part of any movie, any story to tell, is just the end. It’s the thing that changes the most, it’s the endings that are the most fought over among collaborators, they’re the things that are just the hardest to land. Some people get it really, really right, some people get it really, really wrong, and some people land anywhere in-between and our attitudes about them can change. The thing about controversial endings, though, is this: five years from now, my friend, we will all say that the ending of Mass Effect 3 was genius! We’ll catch up to it.

I’m not going to say that people feel that way about Lost, but I would say that people feel that way about The Sopranos. Many, many years after the ending of The Sopranos, The Sopranos just ignited a storm of “oh, that was genius! Genius!” “Genius? Are you kidding me? They wimped out! They didn’t have the guts to tell us what they wanted!” Which is the final fate of Tony Soprano. Defenders of that finale said “Yes, they did. Don’t you get it?” and the people who hate it go “Wait, you’re saying that I’m stupid?” And you go into that downward spiral. Years later, the truth of the matter is, the people who hated it then are probably no greater fans of it now, but in the cooling of it all, the cooling of the vitriol, there is some appreciation. There is grudging appreciation in that camp of “I get what he was saying. I get what he was going for.” And, ultimately, what you remember is that “I defined my enjoyment of that series not by that final moment, but by seven, eight seasons of the greatest television show even written.” That’s how we remember The Sopranos. I think that’s how that’s the fans of Lost are going to remember that show. I think that, for better or worse, the final season of that show will be remembered as something of a cautionary tale. I happen to love it. Do I love it as much as the five seasons before? No, but I really respect and like and was moved by what they did. I think, the further we get away from Lost, it will get more defined by the things that it did right and revolutionary versus the issue of audience satisfaction.

I think Mass Effect as a franchise, these three games taken together, I just can’t see how it’s not regarded as anything less than a landmark. There’s so many things to enjoy about these games and this world and the creative accomplishment of this series than just those final moments. When I played those first two games, the narrative arc of it is maybe one of the things I like the least. I love the way it looks, I love the character design, I love these worlds--there’s so much to really enjoy and love about it. Given some time, people will remember all of what they loved about this thing and now the resolution of it all.

Patrick Klepek on Google+

567 Comments

Avatar image for trucksimulator
trucksimulator

623

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By trucksimulator
@LiquidPrince said:

@purplethoughnotquite: @mutha3: Uh yes I did... Are you guys not hearing something that I am... "The pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom. Organic civilizations rise, evolve, advance. And at the apex of their glory, they are extinguished." "Your civilizations is based on the technologies of the Mass Relays, our technologies. By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire." "You exist because we allow it, and you shall end because we demand it."

How are those lines not the base seeds for what the starchild says...? Obviously they aren't going to reveal the whole of the plot in the first game, and maybe the plan evolved slightly as the third game went into development, but for the most part these are very clear seeds that culminate in the end of Mass Effect 3...

You are confusing foreshadowing with revelation. I am done with this convo if you keep refusing to understand how that works. Stop moving the goal posts.
Avatar image for liquidprince
LiquidPrince

17073

Forum Posts

-1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 5

Edited By LiquidPrince

@purplethoughnotquite said:

@LiquidPrince said:

@purplethoughnotquite: @mutha3: Uh yes I did... Are you guys not hearing something that I am... "The pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom. Organic civilizations rise, evolve, advance. And at the apex of their glory, they are extinguished." "Your civilizations is based on the technologies of the Mass Relays, our technologies. By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire." "You exist because we allow it, and you shall end because we demand it."

How are those lines not the base seeds for what the starchild says...? Obviously they aren't going to reveal the whole of the plot in the first game, and maybe the plan evolved slightly as the third game went into development, but for the most part these are very clear seeds that culminate in the end of Mass Effect 3...

You are confusing foreshadowing with revelation. I am done with this convo if you keep refusing to understand how that works. Stop moving the goal posts.

I am not confusing anything with anything. You are attempting to find an issue where none exists. If people want to criticize the games ending with valid points, such as the lack of closure with regards to your crew mates then fine, but don't create random issues with it. Through bits of foreshadowing, the plot of the Reapers was revealed through until the third game. Foreshadowing leads to revelation.

Avatar image for pyrodactyl
pyrodactyl

4223

Forum Posts

4

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By pyrodactyl

@purplethoughnotquite said:

@LiquidPrince said:

@purplethoughnotquite: @mutha3: Uh yes I did... Are you guys not hearing something that I am... "The pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom. Organic civilizations rise, evolve, advance. And at the apex of their glory, they are extinguished." "Your civilizations is based on the technologies of the Mass Relays, our technologies. By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire." "You exist because we allow it, and you shall end because we demand it."

How are those lines not the base seeds for what the starchild says...? Obviously they aren't going to reveal the whole of the plot in the first game, and maybe the plan evolved slightly as the third game went into development, but for the most part these are very clear seeds that culminate in the end of Mass Effect 3...

You are confusing foreshadowing with revelation. I am done with this convo if you keep refusing to understand how that works. Stop moving the goal posts.

and it can be foreshadowing for 10 million different storylines. 1 of those storylines is the one we got.

from those 10 million, they could have chose 1 that's actually good or makes sense or fits with the themes of the series.

But no

That's the whole point of the video and if you refuse to see it than we can't convince you

Avatar image for majkiboy
Majkiboy

1104

Forum Posts

5

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 8

Edited By Majkiboy

I love what they did to the ending, because look at how the sheep are reacting!

Avatar image for luthorcrow
luthorcrow

195

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By luthorcrow

@pyrodactyl said:

@Distrato: I think you meant to do that

I think that video was actually better than the interview above. It was the most thoughtful breakdown of what didn't work and what would that have seen on the next since this whole thing blew up.

Avatar image for kuddles
kuddles

100

Forum Posts

78

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

Edited By kuddles

@XNaphryz said:

From what I understand, people are upset about the ending because:

- It gives no sense of closure to anything in the game

- It ignores all of your previous choices and essentially gives you one ending

- It forces characters to break from their personalities in a very contrived manner

- It raises numerous questions and creates serious plot holes

- It does not fit with the themes and ideas from the rest of the game and series

I don't think a lot of people would've minded a depressing ending or whatever, as long as it was presented well and provided closure. They just want a well produced ending, not necessarily a "happy" one.

The entire game is closure. Right before the final ending sequence, there is actually a lot of long, drawn out material where they let you talk to every main character in the game.

The ending fits perfectly with the themes of the game. I don't know why people are arguing otherwise. Everything involved with who created the Reapers was foreshadowed constantly throughout the series.

A good ending to a long series does raise numerous questions. I thought that was interesting. I have yet to see a single plot hole that isn't a person who clearly has no idea what a "plot hole" actually is making false claims.

The people complaining about the ending want a "happy" one, and everything they are arguing otherwise is a convoluted mess trying desperately to explain otherwise.

Funny thing: I didn't like the ending because I felt it was too hamfisted, but apparently it wasn't simplistic enough for some people.

Avatar image for mutha3
mutha3

5052

Forum Posts

459

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

Edited By mutha3
@kuddles said:


The ending fits perfectly with the themes of the game. I don't know why people are arguing otherwise.


Nah. Mass Effect has never been about the dangers of AI/the singularity. This concept is very briefly explored in the Quarian/Geth conflict.....and then promptly disproven by having the Geth turn out to be harmless butler robots who's ultimate goal is to upload themselves into a Dyson sphere.
 
Introducing a character in the last 5 minutes to shove this non-existent problem down our throats using only vague, nonsensical buzzword-filled phrases like "synthetics are order, organics are chaos" is shitty storytelling. Dealwithit.jpg
Avatar image for tadthuggish
TadThuggish

1073

Forum Posts

334

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 41

Edited By TadThuggish

@Majkiboy said:

I love what they did to the ending, because look at how the sheep are reacting!

No Caption Provided
Avatar image for toxeia
Toxeia

792

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By Toxeia

Love how people are even upset about the analysis of the ending. Guarantee that with how central DLC is these days you'll just have to pay the extra 15 dollars for all that closure you've all got your blue balls about. That was the plan from the beginning, Bioware just realizes it's gauche to come right out and say "We know, the REAL ending is $15. Watch for that DLC announcement." Also, typing this from the toilet.

Avatar image for mike76x
Mike76x

559

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Mike76x

@kuddles said:

@XNaphryz said:

From what I understand, people are upset about the ending because:

- It gives no sense of closure to anything in the game

- It ignores all of your previous choices and essentially gives you one ending

- It forces characters to break from their personalities in a very contrived manner

- It raises numerous questions and creates serious plot holes

- It does not fit with the themes and ideas from the rest of the game and series

I don't think a lot of people would've minded a depressing ending or whatever, as long as it was presented well and provided closure. They just want a well produced ending, not necessarily a "happy" one.

The entire game is closure. Right before the final ending sequence, there is actually a lot of long, drawn out material where they let you talk to every main character in the game.

The ending fits perfectly with the themes of the game. I don't know why people are arguing otherwise. Everything involved with who created the Reapers was foreshadowed constantly throughout the series.

A good ending to a long series does raise numerous questions. I thought that was interesting. I have yet to see a single plot hole that isn't a person who clearly has no idea what a "plot hole" actually is making false claims.

The people complaining about the ending want a "happy" one, and everything they are arguing otherwise is a convoluted mess trying desperately to explain otherwise.

Funny thing: I didn't like the ending because I felt it was too hamfisted, but apparently it wasn't simplistic enough for some people.

Please explain to us how destroying a mass relay kills a solar system in Arrival, yet in the ME3 ending it just shoots Skittles.

How did Anderson get ahead of Shepard when there was only one entrance?

The hologram kid made the Reapers...who in the fuck made him?

Are all the races that came to Earth going to die because they are trapped there with no gateway home, and have very specific dietary needs?

Avatar image for bakaneko
Bakaneko

87

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

Edited By Bakaneko

Not a great article, BTW... It really was too long in the sense that it expended a lot of words on exploring very few concepts or concerns. Also, in that it was essentially two people talking about what they thought other people were talking about about a game/movie... I try to avoid conversations like that since my college days 20 years ago.

I'll summarize my issue with the ending here. I played 2 7/8 games that were strictly space opera: gun fights, humanoid aliens that largely mirrored narrow aspects of the human condition, space battles, action action action... Then at the end, they thought they were writing something high concept akin to 2001 A Space Odyssey and went for a massive tonal shift, and the dilemma they proposed wasn't particular thought provoking OR "bittersweet". It largely was just "puzzling," a non-sequitur there mainly just there to unsettle you. That's a problem with a lot of modern drama writing, that they think that's clever. High Concept Sci-Fi is hard to do, and they didn't succeed.

Oh hell, who am I kidding? I didn't like the ending because it essentially made me realize I'd invested 3 games and 120+ hours into what was essentially Mannequin 3: Seth Green Gets Some.

Avatar image for dreamfall31
Dreamfall31

2036

Forum Posts

391

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 8

Edited By Dreamfall31

@Mike76x said:

Please explain to us how destroying a mass relay kills a solar system in Arrival, yet in the ME3 ending it just shoots Skittles.

How did Anderson get ahead of Shepard when there was only one entrance?

The hologram kid made the Reapers...who in the fuck made him?

Are all the races that came to Earth going to die because they are trapped there with no gateway home, and have very specific dietary needs?

I'm sure the difference between the Arrival's Mass Relay destruction and the ME3 ending's destruction of them is simply the fact that the CItadel and Catalyst are made to destroy them without the solar system destruction part....simple as that.

As for Anderson getting ahead of Shepard...he was teleported to another room which could have been closer to the center, or simply he just wasn't as slow as Shepard...either way it doesn't matter

As far as I understand it the Reapers are a culmination of hundres of thousands of years of technological advancement. For all we know they could have been the first sentient life in the universe that eventually advanced so far that they became only the huge synthetic Reapers present in the trilogy. They got strong enough to a point that they would harvest technology of other species who had advanced as well and then killed them all so none ever got stronger than them. The hologram kid is probably just some A.I. that appeared for Shepard so it could explain the catalyst and what his/her choices were. It probably just took the form of the boy from the beginning since Shepard had an emotional attachment to him. I'm guessing the Reapers are similar to the Geth as to where they share a linked consciousness as they are super advance A.I., but this is just my guess. Maybe bioware never thought they would have to explain the ending and left it to our interpretation.

As for your last point, that is probably true, but maybe there is some way for them to eventually make some sort of Mass Effect similar to the relays so they could return home.

Avatar image for tds418
tds418

658

Forum Posts

166

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

Edited By tds418

Interesting article, thanks Patrick.

Avatar image for presidentofjellybeans
PresidentOfJellybeans

348

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Sooo.... this is what, 3 stories Patrick has done on the ending of ME3? And why the hell would anyone care what a writer from Entertainment Weekly thinks of the game? Yeah, Entertainment Weekly, that's where people who want to know about games go for their gaming info.

Stay tuned next week as Patrick interviews Barb from a local hair salon on how the ending of ME3 has affected the life of her and her family, and listen for Patrick's new weekly segment on the Bombcast, "The ME3 Ending and You". Twenty minutes every week beating this same dead horse over and over again.

Seriously though, Patrick is awesome, but these stories are starting to seem like filler.

Avatar image for mike76x
Mike76x

559

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Mike76x

@FoxMulder said:

@Mike76x said:

Please explain to us how destroying a mass relay kills a solar system in Arrival, yet in the ME3 ending it just shoots Skittles.

How did Anderson get ahead of Shepard when there was only one entrance?

The hologram kid made the Reapers...who in the fuck made him?

Are all the races that came to Earth going to die because they are trapped there with no gateway home, and have very specific dietary needs?

I'm sure the difference between the Arrival's Mass Relay destruction and the ME3 ending's destruction of them is simply the fact that the CItadel and Catalyst are made to destroy them without the solar system destruction part....simple as that.

As for Anderson getting ahead of Shepard...he was teleported to another room which could have been closer to the center, or simply he just wasn't as slow as Shepard...either way it doesn't matter

As far as I understand it the Reapers are a culmination of hundres of thousands of years of technological advancement. For all we know they could have been the first sentient life in the universe that eventually advanced so far that they became only the huge synthetic Reapers present in the trilogy. They got strong enough to a point that they would harvest technology of other species who had advanced as well and then killed them all so none ever got stronger than them. The hologram kid is probably just some A.I. that appeared for Shepard so it could explain the catalyst and what his/her choices were. It probably just took the form of the boy from the beginning since Shepard had an emotional attachment to him. I'm guessing the Reapers are similar to the Geth as to where they share a linked consciousness as they are super advance A.I., but this is just my guess. Maybe bioware never thought they would have to explain the ending and left it to our interpretation.

As for your last point, that is probably true, but maybe there is some way for them to eventually make some sort of Mass Effect similar to the relays so they could return home.

It's not simple as that you don't turn a destructive explosion into a friendly one, the relays exploded and the energy was released throughout each solar system. But it was nice energy?

There was no other room, they would have had to be in the same room at the same time.

The Reapers would be far older than a few hundred thousand years if what they said was correct.

The catalyst said it created the reapers to kill organics, so organics wouldn't be killed by synthetics....like the reapers. IT'S STUPID.

Who created the catalyst?

The only ppossible thing about the ending that makes sense is that Shepard was indoctrinated, and all this B.S. was in his head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ythY_GkEBck

It all fits too well to be an accident, and Bioware is quite capable of this type of plot-line deception.

The only issue is charging for a real DLC ending, but at this point I'd welcome the hell outta it.

Avatar image for driftspace
DriftSPace

137

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By DriftSPace

Fire your editor, GiantBomb.

Corrections:

  1. "We have this weird dilemma where we’re exulting what the medium can do..." (The correct word is "exalting")
  2. "...how much control over their storytelling do these artists really want to seed to the player?" (Change to "cede")
  3. "...as well as schrodinger's cat." (Proper nouns, like "Schrodinger" should receive capitalization)

It's a shame that a thought-provoking discussion like this should be plagued with grade-school grammatical errors. There are more, but I realized that someone is actually getting paid to allegedly do what I'm doing, but I'm doing a better job for free. Let's not let this turn into IGN, shall we?

Avatar image for algertman
algertman

871

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By algertman

@DriftSPace said:

Fire your editor, GiantBomb.

Corrections:

  1. "We have this weird dilemma where we’re exulting what the medium can do..." (The correct word is "exalting")
  2. "...how much control over their storytelling do these artists really want to seed to the player?" (Change to "cede")
  3. "...as well as schrodinger's cat." (Proper nouns, like "Schrodinger" should receive capitalization)

It's a shame that a thought-provoking discussion like this should be plagued with grade-school grammatical errors. There are more, but I realized that someone is actually getting paid to allegedly do what I'm doing, but I'm going a better job for free. Let's not let this turn into IGN, shall we?

Doing.

Avatar image for spacepenguin
SpacePenguin

497

Forum Posts

425

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

Edited By SpacePenguin
@pyrodactyl: Wow that video was great, thanks for sharing. It seemed to hit every piont that most game journilsts just dont seem to understand. I think people who have finnished the game should watch this.
 @pyrodactyl: said:

Since this video is the most thought out, intelligent analysis of the ending and game journalists/reviewers seem to be totally ignoring what the discussion is even about I'll post it once again


 

Avatar image for mordukai
mordukai

8516

Forum Posts

398

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By mordukai

@algertman said:

@DriftSPace said:

Fire your editor, GiantBomb.

Corrections:

  1. "We have this weird dilemma where we’re exulting what the medium can do..." (The correct word is "exalting")
  2. "...how much control over their storytelling do these artists really want to seed to the player?" (Change to "cede")
  3. "...as well as schrodinger's cat." (Proper nouns, like "Schrodinger" should receive capitalization)

It's a shame that a thought-provoking discussion like this should be plagued with grade-school grammatical errors. There are more, but I realized that someone is actually getting paid to allegedly do what I'm doing, but I'm going a better job for free. Let's not let this turn into IGN, shall we?

Doing.

LOL

Avatar image for driftspace
DriftSPace

137

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By DriftSPace

@algertman:

Ha! Touche ... nice catch. Thanks.

(I guess they're not hiring me instead.)

Avatar image for mike76x
Mike76x

559

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Mike76x

@DriftSPace said:

@algertman:

Ha! Touche ... nice catch. Thanks.

(I guess they're not hiring me instead.)

Touché.

Avatar image for zor
zor

822

Forum Posts

10

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 18

Edited By zor

I have to say, all this drama over the ME3 ending has made me want to skip over this game (which so far, i have). I don't have any plans to get a game just so that a designer can play at being an 'artist' during the ending of the game, since that isn't what I want out of a ME game.

I know that sound odd, but it seem like a bit of a bait and switch move. If they wanted to go down that road that fine, but they should have done that at the start. There are a lot of games that do that, and their great (some of them), but switching to it at the end of a game seem greedy (in the sense that they knew that if they did it all along it wouldn't sell, so they change it, but now that they feel that they have made enough off it, they are switching back and claiming it is 'art').

Avatar image for saudade
Saudade

5

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Saudade

Anyone going to mention that movies, television series, and video games are 3 different categories, and that they are NOT the same thing? Most likely this is what Bioware intended, but guess what? Bioware, word of mouth travels, and I played your game without buying it at a friend's house. To me, ME3 doesn't exist, and I beat the reapers at the end of ME2.

Their should have been, at least, 6 endings; a good/bad for each path (yes, I recognized there are 3 paths). 1 of the good and bad endings should have been the fairy tale/supreme ruler ending. Why? Because most people don't want to play themselves in a video game.

"Well, why would Shepard be immune to reapers?" Why are some people immune to certain diseases you idiots. Genetics made them that way, and almost everyone wants to be that person. They want to feel more than human. Like something is different in them that puts them ahead the game.

"Well Shepard wasn't. Sorry." Well Shepard technically was after ME2! You could have covered your ass there!

"We were under time constraint." Not my fault. I'm sorry you set your sights high, then when you were asked how long you needed for the ending, you didn't ask for more. I'm not going to pretend I know how the game industry works inside, but I'm sure you have at least an iota of say in your time to complete a game.

I am negative publicity. You didn't have to pay for me, and you got no money from me. As long as I'm around, the people I know will also not give you any money, because there are other ways to see for themselves the product without buying it.

Avatar image for tds418
tds418

658

Forum Posts

166

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

Edited By tds418

I think BioWare should release DLC and additional content. Just because you were a bit disappointed with the ending doesn't mean there is not more to discover in the same universe.

Edit: Think how cool it would be if BioWare and the fans worked together? Maybe something truly epic would be the result.

Avatar image for driftspace
DriftSPace

137

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By DriftSPace

@Mike76x: We don't use them accents in 'Merica.

Avatar image for paulwade1984
paulwade1984

493

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By paulwade1984

Nice Job missing the point Patrick.

Avatar image for tds418
tds418

658

Forum Posts

166

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

Edited By tds418

@paulwade1984 said:

Nice Job missing the point Patrick.

But what is the point? It's a discussion.

Avatar image for patchouli
Patchouli

31

Forum Posts

418

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Patchouli

The ending to ME3 was a joke, ME2 showed that done well it can be great. Fans are "Entitled" when they spend full price for a game + all the day 1 DLC.

Avatar image for 2kings
2kings

167

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By 2kings

I'm sure everyone remembers the ending to Shadow of The Collossus. That was a bittersweet ending that is praised by the majority, to this day.

On almost every gaming site and podcast, I'm hearing enthusiast press call the disappointed fan-base, "entitled" or "ignorant". As stated in soooo many comments preceding mine, this is simply NOT the case. ME3 breaks it's own lore in more ways than one. Even if the indoctrination theory holds, that means they meant to either charge or give DLC for the ending. This is also disgusting and counter to everything ME is.

Sorry Patrick, your article reeks of "journalist" navel gazing. I still love ya though.

Avatar image for kentor
Kentor

24

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Kentor

Patrick, I have a really hard time believing you're with us on why the ending is broken when you clearly attribute our collective ire to aspects we don't really care about and have no qualms with.

I find it particularly alarming that you've given so much credence to Jensen's opinion, which is based solely on second hand information. Consider that for a moment. You went into a discussion with someone who had a preconceived notion of the issues at hand based solely on second hand information at best. Regardless of whether his conclusions align with your own, does that sound like reasonable journalism?

Avatar image for mordeaniischaos
MordeaniisChaos

5904

Forum Posts

-1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 5

Edited By MordeaniisChaos

And it's not entitlement until you ask for something, you have every right to be critical of the game you paid for. It's what everyone on the editorial staff does, though they don't even always pay for the review copy. While I agree that asking for a change is dumb, critical statements are if anything something that should be celebrated. Contrary to the popular phrase, you have and should use more than just your money.

Avatar image for pyrodactyl
pyrodactyl

4223

Forum Posts

4

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By pyrodactyl

@tds418 said:

@paulwade1984 said:

Nice Job missing the point Patrick.

But what is the point? It's a discussion.

The point of what the discussion is even about.

At first it was people whining that the ending was to short or about the fact that Bioware didn't care about previous choices. In the first week some (stupid) people were even asking for an ending full of rainbows and unicorns.

Now, most of these people have left and here's the reason we're still talking about this:

The ending was BAD. It doesn't make sense, it abandons Mass Effect's core themes and is full of plot holes.

I would break it down for you but this guy does a better job than me anyway

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MlatxLP-xs&context=C416bcb1ADvjVQa1PpcFPoWlnsQhMUSCF7ekb-pvTZXLGE6k3y1GA=

And I don't have to type an essay every time someone asks ''why do people still bitch about the ending to a videogame after 3 weeks''

Also that:

@Kentor said:

Patrick, I have a really hard time believing you're with us on why the ending is broken when you clearly attribute our collective ire to aspects we don't really care about and have no qualms with.

I find it particularly alarming that you've given so much credence to Jensen's opinion, which is based solely on second hand information. Consider that for a moment. You went into a discussion with someone who had a preconceived notion of the issues at hand based solely on second hand information at best. Regardless of whether his conclusions align with your own, does that sound like reasonable journalism?

Avatar image for spaceinsomniac
SpaceInsomniac

6353

Forum Posts

42

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

Edited By SpaceInsomniac
@kuddles said:

The people complaining about the ending want a "happy" one, and everything they are arguing otherwise is a convoluted mess trying desperately to explain otherwise.

Vague spoilers for some older games: 
 
I loved the endings to SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.
  To say I can't enjoy a sad ending is blatantly false, and I HATED the ending to Mass Effect 3. 
 
This has nothing to do with a happy ending:  http://www.giantbomb.com/mass-effect-3/61-29935/what-did-you-think-of-the-mass-effect-3-ending-poll/35-540016/?  
 You can believe otherwise if you want, but you'll be wrong.
Avatar image for curufinwe
Curufinwe

1723

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

Edited By Curufinwe

@mordukai said:

@algertman said:

@DriftSPace said:

Fire your editor, GiantBomb.

Corrections:

  1. "We have this weird dilemma where we’re exulting what the medium can do..." (The correct word is "exalting")
  2. "...how much control over their storytelling do these artists really want to seed to the player?" (Change to "cede")
  3. "...as well as schrodinger's cat." (Proper nouns, like "Schrodinger" should receive capitalization)

It's a shame that a thought-provoking discussion like this should be plagued with grade-school grammatical errors. There are more, but I realized that someone is actually getting paid to allegedly do what I'm doing, but I'm going a better job for free. Let's not let this turn into IGN, shall we?

Doing.

LOL

I don't think they have copy editors.

Avatar image for tds418
tds418

658

Forum Posts

166

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

Edited By tds418

Discussions don't need to be about anything to yield interesting results.

Avatar image for sonicboyster
SonicBoyster

508

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By SonicBoyster

When your discussion is founded in ignorance or a misunderstanding, whether that be with regards to the industry or the community at large, it loses all value as a topical discussion. It can then only be taken in by someone who is informed and up to date as a sort of thought-exercise where two journalists wax philosophical over what the world might be like if the suppositions of the piece's author were actually grounded in reality. As interesting as it is, it just doesn't provide any insight of value on a website that prides itself on giving us coverage of actual events and having discussions about what is really going on in the industry. I think Patrick is a great writer, and if he wanted to write a crazy article discussing what the sense of entitlement in gamers might be like in a world where the fans were fighting to change the ending of Drake's Uncharted series I'm sure that would be a fascinating read. Unfortunately, it wouldn't be grounded deep enough in reality to hold my interest, as is the case in this article as it is written. I want to hear more about what is actually going on today than about what gaming journalists choose to believe without performing any meaningful research on the topics at hand.

Actually I'd love to see an article about just why exactly it is that there's such a huge logical disconnect between the gaming community and gaming journalists, and I think Patrick would be absolutely perfect for that article if he were willing to look into it for us.

Avatar image for sharkman
SharkMan

1117

Forum Posts

26

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

Edited By SharkMan

i like this article more than i like the discussion, is that wrong?

Avatar image for bbqbram
BBQBram

2497

Forum Posts

88

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By BBQBram

But Sopranos ended with definite closure, it was just hidden in the direction.

Avatar image for clonedzero
Clonedzero

4206

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Clonedzero

@SonicBoyster: i respectfully disagree. i'm constantly losing respect for patrick with every article he posts. it seems irrelevant. he's making news that interests HIM instead of reporting on the news like he should. this entire article is based on him not even having the slightest clue why people were angry about the endings, instead he just assumed people were angry for different reasons then used it as an excuse to talk to a high profile writer about his favorite TV shows instead of video games.

its kind of sickening honestly. you'd expect a journalist to actually do some research....but nope! patrick wants to talk about LOST and the sopranos!

Avatar image for mormonwarrior
MormonWarrior

2945

Forum Posts

577

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 15

User Lists: 21

Edited By MormonWarrior

@babblinmule said:

The comments on this page give me more justification as to why I try and hide that I'm a gamer in real life. You people are embarrassing.

It's embarrassing that people want to have an intellectual discussion about the failings of the ending of a trilogy and how it can be fixed, or even if it should be? Sure, some people are hyperbolic but I've seen most of the comments on here are level-headed and coming from fans that otherwise loved the game but don't feel heard. The fighting game tournament comments are embarrassing. This is thought-provoking.

Avatar image for klei
Klei

1798

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 4

Edited By Klei

People shouldn't bitch about the ending. You don't like it, fine, but it's not yours to change. Want to write a better story? Write a fucking book.

Avatar image for christoffer
Christoffer

2409

Forum Posts

58

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By Christoffer

I wich I had time to read all these comments, but it's just too many. I just wanted to say that I liked the ending (my ending at least) to ME3 and wouldn't want them to change it. I think both the second and third game had huge problems keeping everything together. Neither of the sequels felt as epic and grande as the first game (though it had it's problems aswell). But the ending felt perfect for the cold hearted Jennifer Shepard (my Shepard). Her journey was always self sacrificing to the extreme, and even if I felt doubt in some choices, it felt so damn justified in the end.

My ME story is done. Don't change the ending!!

Avatar image for humanity
Humanity

21858

Forum Posts

5738

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 40

User Lists: 16

Edited By Humanity

@Clonedzero: @SonicBoyster: I wouldn't say sickening but I share the opinion that Patricks articles are overall pretty lackluster. Instead of straight forward reporting on what is happening in the world of gaming I feel as if more often than not I'm reading someones blog. The style doesn't work great either as instead of dry facts that I want to read I have to deal with Patrick trying to wax poetic on seemingly every line of text. Every time I think about that awful title "When Passions Flare.." I just groan.

Avatar image for mike76x
Mike76x

559

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Mike76x

@Christoffer said:

I wich I had time to read all these comments, but it's just too many. I just wanted to say that I liked the ending (my ending at least) to ME3 and wouldn't want them to change it. I think both the second and third game had huge problems keeping everything together. Neither of the sequels felt as epic and grande as the first game (though it had it's problems aswell). But the ending felt perfect for the cold hearted Jennifer Shepard (my Shepard). Her journey was always self sacrificing to the extreme, and even if I felt doubt in some choices, it felt so damn justified in the end.

My ME story is done. Don't change the ending!!

Everyone got your ending. All the relays were destroyed, and according to Mass Effect lore the destroying a mass relay kills the solar system it's in.

So you potentially murdered all life in the galaxy except (somehow) for the planet the Normandy landed on.

In my game Liara was next to me when my Shepard was blasted so hard half my armor was blown off and I was left for dead.

Then somehow she was on the Normandy running away from the fight. The woman who fought Cerberus for Shepard's scorched chunks left my Shepard's living, intact body to run off and have sex with Joker on an unknown planet.

Avatar image for drebin_893
Drebin_893

3332

Forum Posts

1124

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 3

Edited By Drebin_893

@Humanity said:

@Clonedzero: @SonicBoyster: I wouldn't say sickening but I share the opinion that Patricks articles are overall pretty lackluster. Instead of straight forward reporting on what is happening in the world of gaming I feel as if more often than not I'm reading someones blog. The style doesn't work great either as instead of dry facts that I want to read I have to deal with Patrick trying to wax poetic on seemingly every line of text. Every time I think about that awful title "When Passions Flare.." I just groan.

Avatar image for gildermershina
Gildermershina

411

Forum Posts

361

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

Edited By Gildermershina

@Aegeri said:

@mutha3 Not to mention, that ME3 and ME2 actually spend a good chunk of their story SUBVERTING the concept that AI will always destroy their creators - especially for a Paragon Shepard. This makes the final part of the game even more pants on head stupid.

I hear people making this point by saying "oh, but we solved the conflict between the Geth and the Quarians FOREVER, therefore it follows that it is not inevitable that synthetics will rise against their masters." I get what people are saying, but it seems to me a bit like saying "My kid got sick but now he's better, so I guess that means he'll not get sick ever again."

I can see all the gaping logical holes in "the ending", but I take issue with the idea that three way choice at the end in away negates the many big and small choices made throughout the series that built a unique path for each player. I don't really care that the fact Miranda survived didn't play into the end, or the fact that the Salarians hadn't joined the battle against the Reapers didn't mean that eight more ships blew up in a battle. I quite like the idea that no matter how you get there, you still have to make the exact same difficult decision as the only way out of what is pretty much the end of everything. And I like that when you get there as a player you make that choice, based on how you feel about what you have experienced, not on whether it's going to show the "best", "good", "average", "bad" or "worst" endings.

I hope in time those who are angry can take a different perspective on it and come to appreciate it, if not enjoy or agree with it.

Avatar image for faustyn
faustyn

659

Forum Posts

2002

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

Edited By faustyn

@Kentor said:

Patrick, I have a really hard time believing you're with us on why the ending is broken when you clearly attribute our collective ire to aspects we don't really care about and have no qualms with.

I find it particularly alarming that you've given so much credence to Jensen's opinion, which is based solely on second hand information. Consider that for a moment. You went into a discussion with someone who had a preconceived notion of the issues at hand based solely on second hand information at best. Regardless of whether his conclusions align with your own, does that sound like reasonable journalism?

this.

@2kings said:

I'm sure everyone remembers the ending to Shadow of The Collossus. That was a bittersweet ending that is praised by the majority, to this day.

On almost every gaming site and podcast, I'm hearing enthusiast press call the disappointed fan-base, "entitled" or "ignorant". As stated in soooo many comments preceding mine, this is simply NOT the case. ME3 breaks it's own lore in more ways than one. Even if the indoctrination theory holds, that means they meant to either charge or give DLC for the ending. This is also disgusting and counter to everything ME is.

Sorry Patrick, your article reeks of "journalist" navel gazing. I still love ya though.

and this.

thanks guys for writing down everything that i was thinking :) cheers.

Avatar image for christoffer
Christoffer

2409

Forum Posts

58

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By Christoffer

@Mike76x said:

@Christoffer said:

I wich I had time to read all these comments, but it's just too many. I just wanted to say that I liked the ending (my ending at least) to ME3 and wouldn't want them to change it. I think both the second and third game had huge problems keeping everything together. Neither of the sequels felt as epic and grande as the first game (though it had it's problems aswell). But the ending felt perfect for the cold hearted Jennifer Shepard (my Shepard). Her journey was always self sacrificing to the extreme, and even if I felt doubt in some choices, it felt so damn justified in the end.

My ME story is done. Don't change the ending!!

Everyone got your ending. All the relays were destroyed, and according to Mass Effect lore the destroying a mass relay kills the solar system it's in.

So you potentially murdered all life in the galaxy except (somehow) for the planet the Normandy landed on.

In my game Liara was next to me when my Shepard was blasted so hard half my armor was blown off and I was left for dead.

Then somehow she was on the Normandy running away from the fight. The woman who fought Cerberus for Shepard's scorched chunks left my Shepard's living, intact body to run off and have sex with Joker on an unknown planet.

I really don't care what ending anyone else got. If it just happened to fit my character perfectly by chance, so be it. No one who couldn't be on the Normandy was on the Normandy (Liara wasn't actually shown in the end. Just Joker, Garrus and James). So no plot holes for me, guess I was lucky.

Avatar image for mike76x
Mike76x

559

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Mike76x

@Gildermershina said:

@Aegeri said:

@mutha3 Not to mention, that ME3 and ME2 actually spend a good chunk of their story SUBVERTING the concept that AI will always destroy their creators - especially for a Paragon Shepard. This makes the final part of the game even more pants on head stupid.

I hear people making this point by saying "oh, but we solved the conflict between the Geth and the Quarians FOREVER, therefore it follows that it is not inevitable that synthetics will rise against their masters." I get what people are saying, but it seems to me a bit like saying "My kid got sick but now he's better, so I guess that means he'll not get sick ever again."

I can see all the gaping logical holes in "the ending", but I take issue with the idea that three way choice at the end in away negates the many big and small choices made throughout the series that built a unique path for each player. I don't really care that the fact Miranda survived didn't play into the end, or the fact that the Salarians hadn't joined the battle against the Reapers didn't mean that eight more ships blew up in a battle. I quite like the idea that no matter how you get there, you still have to make the exact same difficult decision as the only way out of what is pretty much the end of everything. And I like that when you get there as a player you make that choice, based on how you feel about what you have experienced, not on whether it's going to show the "best", "good", "average", "bad" or "worst" endings.

I hope in time those who are angry can take a different perspective on it and come to appreciate it, if not enjoy or agree with it.

The Geth never attacked anyone, they only ever defended themselves. The Geth are only interested in their personal growth and respecting their creators.

The Reapers convinced the heretics to attack people, the Reapers caused a faction of the Geth to attack organics. The Reapers indoctrinated the Rachni and caused the Rachni war.

The Reapers are the only synthetics in this cycle that preemptively attacked anyone.

The Reapers are synthetics made to kill organics, so organics don't get killed by synthetics made by organics. Yeah organics will always be killed by synthetics...the Reapers.

Lets say the Reapers win and preserve humans for all eternity as a human-reaper. What happens in the next cycle if that human reaper gets destroyed in the fight to destroy that cycles dominant race?

Oopsies?

Avatar image for mike76x
Mike76x

559

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Mike76x

@Christoffer said:

@Mike76x said:

@Christoffer said:

I wich I had time to read all these comments, but it's just too many. I just wanted to say that I liked the ending (my ending at least) to ME3 and wouldn't want them to change it. I think both the second and third game had huge problems keeping everything together. Neither of the sequels felt as epic and grande as the first game (though it had it's problems aswell). But the ending felt perfect for the cold hearted Jennifer Shepard (my Shepard). Her journey was always self sacrificing to the extreme, and even if I felt doubt in some choices, it felt so damn justified in the end.

My ME story is done. Don't change the ending!!

Everyone got your ending. All the relays were destroyed, and according to Mass Effect lore the destroying a mass relay kills the solar system it's in.

So you potentially murdered all life in the galaxy except (somehow) for the planet the Normandy landed on.

In my game Liara was next to me when my Shepard was blasted so hard half my armor was blown off and I was left for dead.

Then somehow she was on the Normandy running away from the fight. The woman who fought Cerberus for Shepard's scorched chunks left my Shepard's living, intact body to run off and have sex with Joker on an unknown planet.

I really don't care what ending anyone else got. If it just happened to fit my character perfectly by chance, so be it. No one who couldn't be on the Normandy was on the Normandy (Liara wasn't actually shown in the end. Just Joker, Garrus and James). So no plot holes for me, guess I was lucky.

Well thank you for not caring about my completely illogical ending because yours was fine.

So in your ending the planet the Normandy landed on, is also the planet the Stargazer and the boy are on.

The possibly only world to survive the Mass Relay explosions, possibly only inhabited by Joker, Garrus and James.

Who is the boy's mother? James?