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The Slippery Slope of Video Game Sales

Passage and The Castle Doctrine designer Jason Rohrer believes our newfound culture of video game sales is hurting players and developers at the same time.

(UPDATE: You can now listen to our whole interview on the Interview Dumptruck.)

Can you remember the last time there wasn't a video game sale going on? This only happened recently, but the culture of perpetual sales caught fire quickly, and it's only getting bigger. The upside of sales are clear: cheaper games. But Passage, Inside a Star-filled Sky, and and Diamond Trust of London developer Jason Rohrer has a new game, and isn't so sure sales always benefit for developers and players.

Rohrer has been independently making games for years. In 2013, he had a Kickstarter to produce a set of DS cartridges.
Rohrer has been independently making games for years. In 2013, he had a Kickstarter to produce a set of DS cartridges.

Rohrer recently published an essay on the website called "Why Rampant Sales are Bad for Players" for his next release, The Castle Doctrine. When the game is released later this month, the current price, $8, will have a temporary launch price of $12. After a week, however, the price will become $16--forever. There will be no sales for The Castle Doctrine. Period. Basically, Rohrer wants to reward early adopters, not punish them with having to pay more money.

The Castle Doctrine has already seen its fair share of controversies over its development, ranging from its very premise (a man, not a woman, protecting their family) to Rohrer's reaction to his life experiences that have informed the game's development (being attacked by dogs).

Rohrer's stance on the game's relationship with sales is the latest development, albeit one with somewhat less moral messiness alongside it. Nonetheless, broaching the topic resulted in the most web traffic Rohrer has seen on his website since the game was announced last year.

Clearly, Rohrer has touched a sensitive subject for all parties involved.

"There’s a rush among game developers," he told me. "All of my friends that I know that are multimillionaires, they made more than half of their money in these Steam sales. Over the past couple of years, I’ve just been hearing all these stories from people. 'Oh, yeah, the sales are where you’re going to make your money, man! I did a midweek madness, and that doubled my money right there!” [laughs] 'I was deal of the day a few weeks later--and again! I doubled!' And they just act like this is the way it is and this is amazing. If you stop and ask one of them, 'you realize that most of those people who bought it, when it was midweek madness or whatever, don’t actually play it?' And they just shrug. 'Who cares, as long as I get their money, right?'"

To be clear, Rohrer doesn't really begrudge his friends for cashing in on what seems to make sense. But he does wonder if there's unintended consequences to this movement, as is the case with any "rush." On the App Store, the rush resulted in a race to the bottom on price, as more games decided the best way to make money was to charge less, hoping to make up for the lack of initial investment with volume.

(If you'll remember, this is what Nintendo president Satoru Iwata famously criticized in his keynote at the Game Developers Conference in 2011. He felt it devalued the quality of games.)

And furthermore, it's not like Rohrer hasn't benefited from the very practice he's now questioning. His last game, Inside a Star-filled Sky, was the benefit of many Steam sales before Rohrer pulled the plug. Rohrer said he made a "substantial amount of money" from these Steam sales.

But he started to notice a pattern when Inside a Star-filled Sky wasn't on sale: no one bought it. Almost no one, anyway. Sales were flat in-between sales, and garnering a new level of interest on the next sale meant offering deeper and deeper discounts. As other developers offered bigger discounts, he felt compelled to do the same thing. In his essay, Rohrer offered this sales graph to illustrate the point:

No Caption Provided

There was a surprising counterpoint within Rohrer's own library of work, too. Another one of his games, Sleep Is Death, was simultaneously available on his website during the same period. During the times when Inside a Star-filled Sky wasn't on sale and Sleep Is Death was full price, Sleep Is Death was making more money. What Rohrer discovered was that our new culture of games sales, something he’d benefited from and supported himself, had conditioned people to avoid full price.

"A lot of people use the term 'trained.' [laughs]" he said. "[It's uncomfortable] having any of these kinds of discussions about marketing and 'should you price your game at $1 or $0.99? Or should it be $9.99 or $10?' All these psychological tricks that marketers have learned over the years. 'Have the price high, so you can discount it later!' All these kinds of things [are] because of psychology. I feel a little slimy dealing with it and thinking in these terms. I especially feel a little slimy about thinking about how we’ve 'trained' our customers. They’re just clapping their fins together and throwing money at us!"

"As a developer, being turned from a millionaire into a multi-millionaire, by effectively tricking a bunch of people into wasting money on something they’ll never use? I, personally, don’t feel good about that."

There's a reason Rohrer titled his essay "Why Rampant Sales are Bad for Players." The culture of sales seems to be eroding his ability to sell games over the longterm, and it impacts early adopters. Rohrer hypothesized the poor soul who purchased one of his games a few minutes before an unannounced sale kicks in. What does that person think? Do they feel okay having spent anywhere from 50-to-75% more than the next person?

This situation wasn't a hypothetical when it came to a Sleep Is Death customer, though. For a period, Sleep Is Death adopted a pay-what-you-want pricing model. The game had been $12, but pay-what-you-want means you pay the developer whatever you think the game is worth. Not long after the change, he received an email from a player purchased the game just prior to the pay-what-you-want change, and he was upset.

"This person’s argument was [that] 'I only have $12 in my bank account, and I just spent it on your game and I won’t be able to buy another game.'" he said. "Some of these people are kids. They get allowance or have a birthday present [where] they get $20 from their grandma or something. 'It’s a game we’re all playing with money' is not true for a lot of people. A lot of people really have to think very hard about what game they spend their money on."

Rohrer asked the player what he wanted to pay. The player's response? $3. So Rohrer refunded him $9.

It's not entirely about the money, either. It's also about how he design games. Rohrer said The Castle Doctrine is not a game that takes five minutes to "click." He suspects it will take players a week before the systems really make sense. That's quite a bit of time, but Rohrer doesn't have a way of making the big payoff in the opening moments--it's not that type of game. He needs players willing to invest.

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When Inside Star-filled Sky went on sale, Rohrer searched through the comments and reviews from players. Steam profiles list the time someone has spent playing a game, and Rohrer noticed a crucial detail with players who didn't like Inside a Star-filled Sky: they weren't spending much time with it.

"Every single person who’s giving it a negative review played it for less than an hour, which means they didn’t even get through the tutorial, the part where the cool stuff is explained," he said. "The people who paid full price for it, whatever the full price was at the time that they bought it, gave it a chance. Some of them played it for hundreds of hours. I really think that if you want to make a more subtle game, one that’s not necessarily going to beat you over the head with what’s cool about it right from the first screen. [If] you want to make a game that takes longer and lingers more and is more about the long term experience, then, yeah, pricing the game higher really will help you have almost all the players who come in be willing to get to that point."

Rohrer's suggestion that the larger investment we have in something, the more we're willing to give it a chance, doesn't sound too crazy, if a bit counterintuitive. Look at it a different way. When you were a kid, did your parents ever buy you a totally crappy game? I remember getting some awful licensed games as a kid, and while I would have preferred Chrono Trigger, I didn't have a choice, so I sucked it up and played through what was in front of me and tried to find enjoyment in that. If I spent $20 on a game, I want to know what it's about. If I spend $2 on a game, I might be inclined to turn it off after my initial reaction.

As he researched his essay, Rohrer came across the idea of a "shame list." Players were posting all of the games picked up in a Steam sale, games they knew they would never have time to play. But when a potentially interesting game is available for $2, why not buy it? Isn't it a win-win? The developer is being rewarded with money and the player suddenly has cheap access to a game.

The days and weeks leading up to a season Steam sale often pushes players into a fever pitch of anticipation.
The days and weeks leading up to a season Steam sale often pushes players into a fever pitch of anticipation.

"When a player comes along and does a shame list," he said, "where they have 300 games in the library, of which they’ve only played 30--that’s bad for players! They wasted their money. And people say 'they don’t need to be babysat, they’re adults or people who can make their own choices, we don’t need to hold their hands as developers and make sure they don’t make bad choice.' But at the same time, me, as a developer, being turned from a millionaire into a multimillionaire, by effectively tricking a bunch of people into wasting money on something they’ll never use? I, personally, don’t feel good about that. I don’t think that’s good for those people. I don’t necessarily think it’s McDonalds’ job to make sure we all eat healthy, but at the same time, I wouldn’t want to be running a fast food restaurant myself."

Right now, the plan is for The Castle Doctrine to never have a sale. Rohrer believes it make sense right now, but it's hard to anticipate the future, and nothing applies to every developer's situation. But it's started an interesting conversation.

When asked, he didn't have a good answer as to why The Castle Doctrine will be priced at $16. He just sort of settled on it. It's certainly more expensive than games his friends have made, though.

"It was kind of scary saying 'The Castle Doctrine will be $16 dollars,'" he said. " [...] Should it only be $6 and then go up to $12? Should it be $5 and go up to $10? You don’t know what effect this is going to have. It’s scary to make your price higher than everybody else. The Castle Doctrine will be more than Fez. [laughs] The Castle Doctrine will be more than Braid ever was. The Castle Doctrine will be more than Super Meat Boy. Yeah, I don’t know. It seems scary, but on the other hand, it very well may be the right thing to do, and maybe even got it set too low."

Patrick Klepek on Google+

455 Comments

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HiCZoK

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@smokyexe said:

@somejerk: That's cute, how much do you make a month?

I make 300 euro and that's normal to a bit on the lower end salary here, a game is 60 euro. Yeah, I'll wait for a sale, thanks.

true. I make 400 euro and spending 60 on a game is just not possible. I am in a situation where I have to think for is it worth spending 10euro on a game but thanks to steam sales my library have 150 games in it

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smokyexe

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@somejerk: That's cute, how much do you make a month?

I make 300 euro and that's normal to a bit on the lower end salary here, a game is 60 euro. Yeah, I'll wait for a sale, thanks.

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teapoted

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Well this is one way to promote your game.

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Rebel_Scum

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I missed the Fez sale for Xbox's countdown to New Year Sale where it was $2+. I didn't care really. I bought it for the full price offered a few days later by Xbox anyways just because its worth playing forr that price.

There are people out there that appreciate value is what I'm trying to say.

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jasondesante

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Edited By jasondesante

1. Jason is a genius

2. The Castle Doctrine is probably his best game. The gameplay is half level/puzzle design half solving other people's puzzles. How many other games have designing puzzles be the most essential part of the gameplay? And what an amazing thing full of creativity that is asking from players, turning the game into its own form of expression. To be good at The Castle Doctrine is to be good at designing puzzles, and to understand the game is to understand how to make your own puzzles.

3. Seriously The Castle Doctrine is his best game. That thing challenges the limits of what you are capable of doing and thinking. You can't just die a few times and then get that jump right the next time, as if you were playing Mario. If you want to hit the next level in this game, you have to do some deep philosophical thinking, some trial and error, everything that is required to get better at anything creative. Except the best thing about The Castle Doctrine, is that you get to see how others did trying to rob your house, and its gameplay + feedback to make you smarter + hilarious replays of people getting eaten by your dogs!

4. The game is more tense than DayZ and Rust.

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north6

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@atepsflame said:

"But at the same time, me, as a developer, being turned from a millionaire into a multimillionaire, by effectively tricking a bunch of people into wasting money on something they’ll never use? I, personally, don’t feel good about that."

No one whines more about having money than a millionaire. Its just such a burden.

Yeah, this seems really gross.

I can *kind* of see where he is coming from, but at the same time it's not like people are going homeless because they are addicted to Steam sales.

He is saying he wants to be proud of how he makes his money. He takes pride in the people who bought his game actually playing it.

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matchles

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I've never really been concerned with what other people pay for games. There are a number of indie games that I'll pick up at release for full price because they look great to me (Rogue Legacy, Terraria and Binding of Isaac come to mind). There are others that I wouldn't give a second glance at full price but will pick up in a sale and often they are great games too. Do I care that my day 1 purchases go on sale a month, 3 months, 6 months down the road? No, I've had my fun with the game and it was worth it to me.

Best of luck to him on selling that game. But remove the indie label and imagine the same format for a AAA title. Pre-orders get the game for $30, day 1 purchases for $45 and then $60 forever. It's not going to work out well.

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north6

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@hailinel said:

@treetrunk said:

"I remember getting some awful licensed games as a kid, and while I would have preferred Chrono Trigger, I didn't have a choice, so I sucked it up and played through what was in front of me and tried to find enjoyment in that."

So he'd rather we go back to the days where gamers had to make do with whatever game they had whether they liked it or not, rather than the present days where gamers can easily get the kind of games they like relatively conveniently and for cheap?

No, he's stating that he would prefer it if the people that buy his game buy it and feel compelled to play it for the amount of money they paid rather than buy it as part of a bulk Steam sale and then just sit on it forever in a mountain of likewise purchased games that have either barely or never been played.

No, that's what Jason is saying about games. So far as I can tell, the licensed games part is Patrick's musings and it is guilty of romanticising 'making the best of it' as @treetrunk is claiming. Patrick could have meant something else but that's not what that part is actually saying and in such event would mean that he has expressed it poorly.

I'm not really sure how you could read that in any other way without some very wishful thinking.

Patrick likely understands this is a difficult concept to grasp, so he is asking you to step back, put yourself into your child self and think about what gaming was like then. The scenario many people find themselves in, myself included, is playing through the games you *own*, good or bad.

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DarkeyeHails

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Edited By DarkeyeHails

@hailinel said:

@treetrunk said:

"I remember getting some awful licensed games as a kid, and while I would have preferred Chrono Trigger, I didn't have a choice, so I sucked it up and played through what was in front of me and tried to find enjoyment in that."

So he'd rather we go back to the days where gamers had to make do with whatever game they had whether they liked it or not, rather than the present days where gamers can easily get the kind of games they like relatively conveniently and for cheap?

No, he's stating that he would prefer it if the people that buy his game buy it and feel compelled to play it for the amount of money they paid rather than buy it as part of a bulk Steam sale and then just sit on it forever in a mountain of likewise purchased games that have either barely or never been played.

No, that's what Jason is saying about games. So far as I can tell, the licensed games part is Patrick's musings and it is guilty of romanticising 'making the best of it' as @treetrunk is claiming. Patrick could have meant something else but that's not what that part is actually saying and in such an event would mean that he has expressed it poorly.

I'm not really sure how you could read that in any other way without some very wishful thinking.

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north6

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Edited By north6

I get what he is saying. I was thinking the whole time reading this that Nintendo agrees too. Good or bad, people know to buy first party Nintendo games at launch because you don't often see them take a nose dive in price.

Its good for him to write that essay, because it would take a long, consistent track record of not putting games on sale to hit home with his fans otherwise, which obviously hasn't been the case thus far in his career. What will be interesting to see is if he continues this with future games.

To the people who don't get it, Patrick summed it up pretty well towards the end. Unless you were a spoiled shit as a child, you likely didn't receive every game you wanted, and had to play through some trash. He wants people who buy his games to actually play them, and this pricing structure is the scenario that is most likely to bring about that outcome.

At the end of the day, this is a developer by developer (publisher?) choice that is made more effective when the ecosystem you're operating on agrees with you. This seems tough on Steam, as I'm not aware of any other developers going that route there.

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deactivated-5ee7f60143c81

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Great article, I would have to agree with the main point that a lot of us; as gamer's have a pile of shame that we continually add to. I have thought about it a lot and I actively try to restrict myself from buying games that I know I am only buying because they are cheap.

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Turambar

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@hailinel said:

@turambar said:

@hailinel said:

I'm just amazed at both the number of people that took Jason's viewpoint as a personal attack on their own spending habits.

Why? Society utilizes this form of implicit blame all the time, as I've stated earlier.

Yeah, you're right. Doesn't make it any less disappointing to see it in action, though.

Except we often want to see it happen more than it currently does in the world. Implicit blame has been used by many, many various social movements fighting for things that we would consider good, as a way to remove support from, isolate, and pressure those that expresses views of racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. It is by no means disappointing, and is in fact vital to changing mass opinion in a society where speech cannot be legally censored.

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Edited By tardigrade

Then again he also made Passage which has the most hilarious internet basement goony perspective on the world ever so I guess it's not surprising.

:) :) :)

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Edited By Hailinel

@turambar said:

@hailinel said:

I'm just amazed at both the number of people that took Jason's viewpoint as a personal attack on their own spending habits.

Why? Society utilizes this form of implicit blame all the time, as I've stated earlier.

Yeah, you're right. Doesn't make it any less disappointing to see it in action, though.

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@patrickklepek: I think there are some poor design choices regarding Spelunky's tutorial and more specifically it's ice-slick-cliff-face-of-maddening-heights-like difficulty level. I can say that as a lover of that game -- I rarely if ever recommend it to others. It's just too *clears throat* hardcore. Which is why there are quite a number of people who bought it, had their asses kicked by it, and never booted it up again.

As a game designer -- job one is ALWAYS make sure the player is engaged and having fun. It's a tough fucking job. Just ask any Dungeon Master.

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@hailinel said:

I'm just amazed at both the number of people that took Jason's viewpoint as a personal attack on their own spending habits.

Why? Society utilizes this form of implicit blame all the time, as I've stated earlier.

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Edited By LikeaSsur

I just don't get where this guy is coming from.

We buy games, developers get money. How does that make him feel icky? Because he feels bad that people won't play it? That will always happen.

I'm willing to bet the people who didn't spend a lot of time with his game would have done so regardless of the price. The people who will buy a game just to have it will be there no matter what.

And as for buying a game and seeing it go on sale a day later; that's a non-issue. That's how every capitalist system works, and sometimes you get the short straw.

Also,

The Castle Doctrine has already seen its fair share of controversies over its development, ranging from its very premise (a man, not a woman, protecting their family)

What exactly makes this controversial?

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Edited By SpudBug

Sales make sense for games that have been on the market a long time or performed poorly at release.

If you're not selling copies then people aren't playing it at all. It doesn't matter if they don't play it much when its on sale. At least they play it or have a chance to play it. And you make some money vs no money.

It also works the opposite way - if I missed out on some early discount and need to pay more now to experience the game i probably wont bother. It feels like a "bad deal" to pay more than someone else did.

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I honestly could not care less. I'm unemployed, and finding a job is a bitch, especially where I live. I rely on sales for my games. If I had more money to throw around, I wouldn't mind paying full price for some games, but when it comes to money, I need to worry about being smart with my own.

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@bartz said:

Steam games are also intangible. For each game that Mr. Rohrer sells on steam, his marginal cost is exactly 0(since Steam pays for the bandwidth). Therefore he can theoretically produce and sell an infinite amount of the product since it costs nothing to produce(I'm not counting any contracts he's made to profit share since those are certainly percentage shares and therefore not applicable to this argument). So economically speaking, the world will best be served should he sell his product for as little as possible, generating the maximum amount of total surplus.

But the market for video games is not a ideal "perfect market" like you learn in Econ 101. Specifically, two of the perfect market assumptions are broken because the publisher has a monopoly for the specific game - for which there are only imperfect substitutes - and there are barriers to entry due to the significant sunk costs necessary for game development.

Rohrer (or any content-owner with a zero marginal cost good like a game) would indeed maximize the utility extracted from a given game by giving it away for free but it would not be rational economic behavior for them to do so. Unless, of course, Rohrer were artistically or philanthropically motivated and derived more personal utility from having the maximum number of people enjoy his game than he would from the money to be made from selling it to a fraction of them.

He's not giving it away but he is (ostensibly, at least) trading money for artistic satisfaction by refusing to engage in the profit-maximizing behavior that is typical of the way games are sold. A good in a perfectly competitive market is priced lower than what almost all consumers would be willing to pay. The difference is called "consumer surplus" and is the area below the demand curve and above the price on the left side of the supply and demand chart. The typical behavior in the game market is for the publisher to try to capture as much of that surplus as possible by selling the game for exactly what each consumer is willing to pay for it by gradually lowering the price in ways that the consumers cannot really anticipate - i.e. sales.

No Caption Provided

In this example, if the price is permanently fixed at $10 with the green supply curve (flat due to zero marginal costs), the blue rectangle is the money made by the merchant ($10 * 250,000 = $2.5 million), the maximum for the given blue OnePriceDemand curve. The red is the consumer surplus - happy consumers who (assuming perfect information, due to informative reviews and demos and such) knew they would enjoy the game more than the $10 they spent.

But when consumers believe that the game will eventually go on sale, the demand curve bows in. The extreme consumers - those who don't really care how much it costs and those who would only really play it for free don't change, but the ones in the middle are not willing to pay as much because they are willing to wait for a sale. The orange SalesDemand curve assumes (unrealistically) that the merchant can perfectly set a price for every single consumer. This gives the entire area under the orange curve to the merchant (about $3 million instead of $2.5 million) and leaves the consumers with zero surplus. No consumer is truly happy because they are each only marginally more happy than they would have been if they had kept their money - not ripped off but just barely worth it.

As always in economics, the real answer depends on details that are difficult to measure in reality. No one can perfectly capture the entire consumer surplus and in reality there would be a bunch of green lines at various sale price points with little red triangles above them. Depending on the shape of the lines it is possible for both consumers and the merchant to get more value by taking advantage of the white space under the orange line, giving the consumers a smaller share of a bigger pie. But even if that is true, the people who like the game the most are getting less utility in the sales model - it's just made up for by allowing a bunch of people who sort of like the game to sort of enjoy it because they got it on sale.

Assuming Rohrer is honest about his motivations (and this isn't just a PR scheme or a plan to maximize profits by trying to make the launch of a multi-player game bigger), I think he should be commended for wanting the people who like his game the best to get the most value out of it and being willing to leave money on the table to make it happen.

tl;dr

Pricing models with anticipated sales are good for some consumers and bad for others. The economics of a no-sales pricing model are likely bad for the publisher but good for the consumers who are most enthusiastic about a product, so good for Rohrer.

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churrific

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Edited By churrific

He brings up some interesting points. Of course, there's no evidence presented, but he doesn't claim that what he's stating is hard truth. It's just his ideas. That's what this new game is for. I'd be interested in seeing how this little experiment turns out, and seeing some hard #s to back up or disprove some of his theories. It's worthwhile experiment. Geez no need to take it personally.

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Edited By hippocrit

@mumrik: what's wrong with paying for something you like? And you're willing to pay, why shouldn't you get special content? The DLC comparison is poor.

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wallee321

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I don't agree with this guy at all. This isn't the PS2/NGC/Xbox era, or the first couple years of last gen where their where a handful AAA developers, some AA and then an organized indie scene on PC.

Now in the present we have tons of different developers releasing games (of varying scope and size) every single month of the year. Finding indie games is pretty easy now with social media and a handful headline sites that can be checked to see what's new. (Steam, gog, kickstarter, humblebundle, desura)

Simply, put unless: I was really looking forward to a game, a whole a lot of people whose opinion I trust and have similar tastes, or is a well made game and in one of my favorite genres, then I'll probably wait for it to go on sale. Then, I'll give it 30 minutes to 2 hours to 'grab' me, but shit man they are just too many good games nowadays to waste my free time with games that mediocre or so-so.

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newmoneytrash

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"But at the same time, me, as a developer, being turned from a millionaire into a multimillionaire, by effectively tricking a bunch of people into wasting money on something they’ll never use? I, personally, don’t feel good about that."

No one whines more about having money than a millionaire. Its just such a burden.

Yeah, this seems really gross.

I can *kind* of see where he is coming from, but at the same time it's not like people are going homeless because they are addicted to Steam sales.

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ch3burashka

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But I got Blackguards at 50%!

We don't call them that anymore.

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DriveupLife

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This guy is too much of a hipster to enjoy profit.

Good article Patrick.

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ICF_19XX

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Those embedded videos do not work for me.

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Slag

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@hailinel said:

I'm just amazed at both the number of people that took Jason's viewpoint as a personal attack on their own spending habits.

Can't say I am.

It comes down to guilty consciences. He's saying something a lot of people have not been trying to think about. People know instinctively know that getting games at 50-80% continually is likely too good to be true in some way and that somebody is getting exploited. In this case it's coming at the developer and publishers's expense as it severely negatively the perceived value of their work as well as the Pre-order crowd, who is arguably the very best customers a game company has.

But if you're partaking in those sales, you don't want to hear it since it forces you to face an ugly truth, that maybe you are ripping off the developer even if it's with their permission. So you take a swing at the messenger. It's emotionally easier to blame him than admit you may be doing something wrong.

I know I'm as guilty as anyone of waiting for steep discounts on titles. With Steam Sales it's becoming increasingly hard to rationalize dropping $60+ on a new title, when I can get the same enjoyment for less than ten bucks if I'm patient. I have a massive backlog anyway, it's not like I'll play more than a few games a year immediately after I buy them. They really are transformative on a purchaser's psyche. That's good for me in the short term, but it doesn't do much good for the game makers, which is ultimately probably going to be bad for me in the long term since the games I like may no longer get made (or made in a way that doesn't appeal to me). But like a lot of people, I have a strong desire to game, but a limited budget to make it happen. So it makes for some tough choices.

I imagine the big pubs are going to have to eventually pull all their single player games off Steam onto their own Origin type services to stop the out of control discounting. I don't see what choice they have. There's no natural self correcting price floor on a digital distribution service. You never run out of copies of anything. It's a race to the bottom.

I do think there are ways to do the sales properly so they don't race so low too quickly, but I'm not sure unless there is some sort of collusion (which is probably illegal) that someone else won't just instantly undercut the guy doing that way.

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cthomer5000

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Geez. It's honestly hard to know where to start with this one.

1. A metric assload of reasearch shows us people are more likely to buy things on sale. No one should ever, ever draw the conclucsion that games bought when heavily discounted are "lost" full price purchases.

2. He's comparing the sales of two different games to each other, so not exactly a clinical study.

3. If you find most people are putting your game down after less than an hour and never coming back to it, you might want to spend more time thinking about how to engage the player up-front. Many solid games lose players because of awful intros, bad/non-existent tutorials, excessive tutorials, etc. It's a delicate balancing act. But even a very nuanced game that takes dozens of hours to fully understand should have some sort of hook to grab you up front.

4. I think one thing he isn't considering at all is the justification of a "shotgun approach" to purchasing. If I buy 10 games at 2 bucks, i only need to hit on 2 of those to justify my purchaes IMHO. I can love 2 games, dislike 3, never even play 5, and that 20 bucks was still well spent in my opinion.

Skyrim woud have easily been worth 200 dollars for me. I would hand Derek Yu another 50 bucks right now for my time with Spelunky. Saints Row 3 was a total waste of my time even at 15 bucks.

5. This is commerce. See point 1 about economic studies. If you aren't interesting in maximizing your profit, maybe you should look for a salary job at a larger gaming company. Or hire someone to run the business aspect.

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ajroo

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My take:

If i unquestionably want a game from day one, i will pay full price. Otherwise there are a hundred different scenarios which impact what i am willing to pay for a title. A sale increases the chance i pick up a game i would not have bought otherwise, and in that case, necessarily never played. If i own it, the chances i play go above zero which seems like a positive direction if your the developer.

Whether i play it or not wouldnt be known to a developer, generally. It seems the problem is people rating a game poorly because the didnt give it a chance. Those people, not giving it a chance because the low price afforded them low opportunity cost. I tend to think its more about the thousands of options gamers have these days. If a game doesnt grab you in an hour, the unplayed stack becomes the more enticing. The ADD world we live in has trained people to want instant gratification or move on to the next toy.

An interesting discussion but only one you are having if you are a multimillionaire developer, otherwise you are thankful for every dollar, i bet.

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dr_mantas

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Mmmm... nope. I play the games I buy that interest me at all.

I also buy on sale a bunch of simple indie games that all seem the same, save for an interesting design choice or two. And if they catch me, I play through them.

If they don't, well, they do sit in my Steam pile, but hey - I supported someone making video games, hooray for me.

Games on sale for three bucks are worth as much of your time as any activity that costs three bucks - play it once, try it out, move on.

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Authorman

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Honestly, this news makes me not want to buy the game at all and I was actually going to get it day 1. No sales in a competitive online only multiplayer game screams tiny userbase of super minmax experts who are no fun to play with.

I think there is a point to be made with the devaluing of games through constant sales, but this is the exact wrong type of game to take a stand on.

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Hailinel

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Edited By Hailinel

I'm just amazed at both the number of people that took Jason's viewpoint as a personal attack on their own spending habits.

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BlazeHedgehog

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Edited By BlazeHedgehog
Loading Video...

With all due respect to Jason Rohrer, I can kind of see why sales for this game languish when it's not being discounted. I'm not sure if this is an officially endorsed trailer or not, but it seems to do a good enough job extolling what's unique about the game.

And... while it's an interesting twist, it's also really ugly to look at and doesn't seem especially fun to play. Watching some other gameplay videos, it also seems to have extremely flat sound design on top of everything else.

While I don't entirely disagree with everything he says about Steam's sales having a long-term negative impact, I think it's worth stating that Inside A Star-Filled Sky just might not be a very good game. It's great that he thinks it has worth, and from what he has said it's found some fans, but pretending like its price is the thing holding it back from having larger appeal is ignoring the fact that, at a glance, it looks like a bad freeware roguelike crossed with a super-tepid version of Geometry Wars. He did not make an appealing game.

It's great that he wants to encourage players to find the "hidden depth", but even just watching that trailer, I don't think I care. If just your trailer can't sell me on your game, then the way its priced becomes irrelevant. These are all cold things to say, but sometimes that's the way its gotta be.

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LarryDavis

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@elpork: Yeah, this. It's not that hard to understand.

That said, considering how garbage Steam sales have been over the past year or so, I've increasingly just been buying games as they come out so I can keep up and not have a huge backlog. It's not worth waiting months for a paltry 33% off or some shit.

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beard_of_zeus

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@peanut said:

I like getting cheap games, but the amount of times I've played a really incredible game that absolutely bombed, then looked up discussion about it to see nothing but "I'll wait for a Steam sale" from 99% of people is fucking infuriating.

The only games anyone support out of the gate anymore are the ones that don't need it. If it's not a huge release it's apparently not worth buying immediately, because "It'll be $20 in a month" and fuck that line of thinking, because it has absolutely destroyed those medium size games that I've always loved.

I think this is/was a big part in the death of the B-tier studio / games. Stuff like your Darksiders, your Prototype(s), Binary Domain, Enslaved,etc. I worry are all going to go the way of the dodo.

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Mirado

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I do not agree with his assumptions. I use sales and the time leading up to them as a way to lower my opportunity cost and learn more about the product; by allowing early adopters to pull their hair out with broken, busted launches and compiling information from trusted opinions online, I'm maximizing my chance of finding a game that I'll enjoy (in a stable state). And if it turns out I don't like it anyway, I'm out $X instead of $3X.

By making sure that the early adopters are the ones who will only ever get a price cut, I'm much less likely to buy your game. I refuse to pay before I have a courted at least a few opinions about a game (both in terms of reviews for the title, and how stable it currently is), and reducing the time I have to do that before your game ticks over to full price isn't making that process any easier. While I understand buying a game just before it goes on sale is a pain, you're just moving that anger around. Not eliminating it.

Now, "sales make for less invested players" might be something worth looking into, but I'd argue that sales allow people to try more games. The more people you have trying something, the more likely you are to hook one of them. I don't feel more determined to stick with a game just because I paid more; a $60 game that bores me will end up with two hours (or less) of playtime regardless.

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deactivated-5fb7c57ae2335

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Nope!

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The games I buy on sale are the ones I have little interest in. They often go unplayed and forgotten. The games I am interested in I'll buy at the full retail price when they are released. I have numerous games on Steam that I've purchased on sale that are either not installed or are installed and I've never launched them. So if he wants his game to always be $16 that's up to him. But as a game I know nothing about and have no interest in anyway, there's a near zero chance I'll ever buy it.

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Slag

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Ultimately it's a race to the bottom that's going to devalue consumer perception of a fair pricing for games to a point where nobody makes money unless something changes. Or worse it heavily incentivizes game designs none of us are going to like.

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PulledaBrad

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"(a man, not a woman, protecting their family)"

I don't like that this is suggested as the thing wrong with the premise as though there isn't a bunch of other stuff to criticise too.

I was going to say the same thing. WTF does this comment have to do with the premise of the interview/article?

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Hailinel

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yes people may be wasting money on games they may never play, BUT people waste their money on so many things in life too.

"I remember getting some awful licensed games as a kid, and while I would have preferred Chrono Trigger, I didn't have a choice, so I sucked it up and played through what was in front of me and tried to find enjoyment in that."

So he'd rather we go back to the days where gamers had to make do with whatever game they had whether they liked it or not, rather than the present days where gamers can easily get the kind of games they like relatively conveniently and for cheap?

"Every single person who’s giving it a negative review played it for less than an hour, which means they didn’t even get through the tutorial, the part where the cool stuff is explained," he said.

Why should someone play a game they don't like for more than an hour? Perhaps by tricking consumers to pay full price, you have tricked them into forcing themselves to find value in your lackluster game?

I once saw a negative review for "Shadow Warrior" on steam, all it said was "THIS IS DOG ****", I checked out his profile and he only played the game for 10 minutes. All games have such reviews and I don't think many people take them seriously.

No, he's stating that he would prefer it if the people that buy his game buy it and feel compelled to play it for the amount of money they paid rather than buy it as part of a bulk Steam sale and then just sit on it forever in a mountain of likewise purchased games that have either barely or never been played.

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Laksa

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Edited By Laksa

@onan said:

The reason sales are such a big thing now is the industry has reached the point where ease of access made content so ubiquitous that sales are necessary to stand out in the crowd. You're not going to fight that by saying you'll never have a sale, you're going to end up selling a fraction of what you could have sold instead.

The next step isn't raising the price of games and doing away with sales for a new golden age of game appreciation, the next step is Netflix. The next step is a subscription-based service. (Sorry Gametap, you were ahead of your time.) We'll see what happens with Playstation Now.

The most intelligent post in this click bait article.

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alwaysbebombing

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I hope people don't try to compare this to deflation. That is a very very different topic. It occurs on a large scale to the power of a currency over time both macro and micro economically speaking. And that is a way to simplified explanation.

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sergeantz

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Some of these sales have allowed me to take a chance on a game I otherwise might not have played. I bought Just Cause 2 and Jamestown for 5 bucks each and played both extensively. I also bought Sanctum for the same price and decided I was done after two levels. I was happy having purchased all three games, even though I didn't like one of them.

For me, price drops affect how likely I am to take a chance on a game that I'm interested in, but not quite sold on. I currently have 30 games on my wishlist, so I can keep an eye on them. I still buy games at the 60 dollar price point, but I have to be sure that I'll really like the game to invest that much in it.

I'm still mulling around a few of the points he made. My gut says that while some of the people who buy a game on impulse won't play it, all of the people who don't buy the game won't play it. I also think that there's a flaw in never lowering the price of the game. All items depreciate in value, even digital ones. Movies, music, shows, and the like all eventually become at least a little cheaper down the line because the distributors realize that the original price is no longer one that the market will bear. I also have trouble with the idea that the industry is being hurt by the sales. I understand the desire for your game to be played and enjoyed, but I also see the desire to have your work financially compensated. Video games are art, like movies, but also like movies, they are a business, with a goal of making money. Also, I understand that the game on his site had higher baseline sales than the one on Steam, but which one generated more total revenue? Maybe I missed it when I read the article.

I think that there are flaws in his reasoning, but only time will tell.

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sweetz

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Edited By sweetz

No sales ever (or permanent price drop with age) is extreme, however I do tend to agree that extremely frequent sales are creating a "I'll wait for the sale" mentality among many people for pretty much every game coming out - even those that are more than deserving of their debut MSRP.

What I'm worried about is that as developers and publishers find they can no longer sell high budget games at $50-60, they will rely more and more on microtransactions, which are extremely detrimental to balanced game design.

Regarding people buying games and not playing them, if I were a developer I would just look at it as those sales offsetting the people who play the game without buying it...

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DrDarkStryfe

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One of the biggest problems that the industry has is a lack of second market sales that other entertainment mediums have. The vast majority of revenue that a title will receive is still heavily in the first couple months after release. DLC is something that can add to that, but even that is still in its infancy, and used sales go straight into the pocket of retailers.

Movies, for example, have the initial release, budget theater run, DVD, and television deals to earn revenue.

Steam sales have been the biggest in-road into getting these titles a second shot at significant revenue. It is not always the best strategy, as I do agree with points made Jason that pricing can lead to a misconception of value, but it is the first step into finding a viable revenue source that is not entirely dependent on the title's launch.

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Palaeomerus

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Edited By Palaeomerus

@somejerk said:

Still cannot believe those people are intelligent enough to post on the internet either.

Sounds like your understanding of the meaning of the word "intelligence" is a bit faulty then. People do not disagree with you or hold opinions you find distasteful because they lack intelligence.