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The Slippery Slope of Video Game Sales

Passage and The Castle Doctrine designer Jason Rohrer believes our newfound culture of video game sales is hurting players and developers at the same time.

(UPDATE: You can now listen to our whole interview on the Interview Dumptruck.)

Can you remember the last time there wasn't a video game sale going on? This only happened recently, but the culture of perpetual sales caught fire quickly, and it's only getting bigger. The upside of sales are clear: cheaper games. But Passage, Inside a Star-filled Sky, and and Diamond Trust of London developer Jason Rohrer has a new game, and isn't so sure sales always benefit for developers and players.

Rohrer has been independently making games for years. In 2013, he had a Kickstarter to produce a set of DS cartridges.
Rohrer has been independently making games for years. In 2013, he had a Kickstarter to produce a set of DS cartridges.

Rohrer recently published an essay on the website called "Why Rampant Sales are Bad for Players" for his next release, The Castle Doctrine. When the game is released later this month, the current price, $8, will have a temporary launch price of $12. After a week, however, the price will become $16--forever. There will be no sales for The Castle Doctrine. Period. Basically, Rohrer wants to reward early adopters, not punish them with having to pay more money.

The Castle Doctrine has already seen its fair share of controversies over its development, ranging from its very premise (a man, not a woman, protecting their family) to Rohrer's reaction to his life experiences that have informed the game's development (being attacked by dogs).

Rohrer's stance on the game's relationship with sales is the latest development, albeit one with somewhat less moral messiness alongside it. Nonetheless, broaching the topic resulted in the most web traffic Rohrer has seen on his website since the game was announced last year.

Clearly, Rohrer has touched a sensitive subject for all parties involved.

"There’s a rush among game developers," he told me. "All of my friends that I know that are multimillionaires, they made more than half of their money in these Steam sales. Over the past couple of years, I’ve just been hearing all these stories from people. 'Oh, yeah, the sales are where you’re going to make your money, man! I did a midweek madness, and that doubled my money right there!” [laughs] 'I was deal of the day a few weeks later--and again! I doubled!' And they just act like this is the way it is and this is amazing. If you stop and ask one of them, 'you realize that most of those people who bought it, when it was midweek madness or whatever, don’t actually play it?' And they just shrug. 'Who cares, as long as I get their money, right?'"

To be clear, Rohrer doesn't really begrudge his friends for cashing in on what seems to make sense. But he does wonder if there's unintended consequences to this movement, as is the case with any "rush." On the App Store, the rush resulted in a race to the bottom on price, as more games decided the best way to make money was to charge less, hoping to make up for the lack of initial investment with volume.

(If you'll remember, this is what Nintendo president Satoru Iwata famously criticized in his keynote at the Game Developers Conference in 2011. He felt it devalued the quality of games.)

And furthermore, it's not like Rohrer hasn't benefited from the very practice he's now questioning. His last game, Inside a Star-filled Sky, was the benefit of many Steam sales before Rohrer pulled the plug. Rohrer said he made a "substantial amount of money" from these Steam sales.

But he started to notice a pattern when Inside a Star-filled Sky wasn't on sale: no one bought it. Almost no one, anyway. Sales were flat in-between sales, and garnering a new level of interest on the next sale meant offering deeper and deeper discounts. As other developers offered bigger discounts, he felt compelled to do the same thing. In his essay, Rohrer offered this sales graph to illustrate the point:

No Caption Provided

There was a surprising counterpoint within Rohrer's own library of work, too. Another one of his games, Sleep Is Death, was simultaneously available on his website during the same period. During the times when Inside a Star-filled Sky wasn't on sale and Sleep Is Death was full price, Sleep Is Death was making more money. What Rohrer discovered was that our new culture of games sales, something he’d benefited from and supported himself, had conditioned people to avoid full price.

"A lot of people use the term 'trained.' [laughs]" he said. "[It's uncomfortable] having any of these kinds of discussions about marketing and 'should you price your game at $1 or $0.99? Or should it be $9.99 or $10?' All these psychological tricks that marketers have learned over the years. 'Have the price high, so you can discount it later!' All these kinds of things [are] because of psychology. I feel a little slimy dealing with it and thinking in these terms. I especially feel a little slimy about thinking about how we’ve 'trained' our customers. They’re just clapping their fins together and throwing money at us!"

"As a developer, being turned from a millionaire into a multi-millionaire, by effectively tricking a bunch of people into wasting money on something they’ll never use? I, personally, don’t feel good about that."

There's a reason Rohrer titled his essay "Why Rampant Sales are Bad for Players." The culture of sales seems to be eroding his ability to sell games over the longterm, and it impacts early adopters. Rohrer hypothesized the poor soul who purchased one of his games a few minutes before an unannounced sale kicks in. What does that person think? Do they feel okay having spent anywhere from 50-to-75% more than the next person?

This situation wasn't a hypothetical when it came to a Sleep Is Death customer, though. For a period, Sleep Is Death adopted a pay-what-you-want pricing model. The game had been $12, but pay-what-you-want means you pay the developer whatever you think the game is worth. Not long after the change, he received an email from a player purchased the game just prior to the pay-what-you-want change, and he was upset.

"This person’s argument was [that] 'I only have $12 in my bank account, and I just spent it on your game and I won’t be able to buy another game.'" he said. "Some of these people are kids. They get allowance or have a birthday present [where] they get $20 from their grandma or something. 'It’s a game we’re all playing with money' is not true for a lot of people. A lot of people really have to think very hard about what game they spend their money on."

Rohrer asked the player what he wanted to pay. The player's response? $3. So Rohrer refunded him $9.

It's not entirely about the money, either. It's also about how he design games. Rohrer said The Castle Doctrine is not a game that takes five minutes to "click." He suspects it will take players a week before the systems really make sense. That's quite a bit of time, but Rohrer doesn't have a way of making the big payoff in the opening moments--it's not that type of game. He needs players willing to invest.

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When Inside Star-filled Sky went on sale, Rohrer searched through the comments and reviews from players. Steam profiles list the time someone has spent playing a game, and Rohrer noticed a crucial detail with players who didn't like Inside a Star-filled Sky: they weren't spending much time with it.

"Every single person who’s giving it a negative review played it for less than an hour, which means they didn’t even get through the tutorial, the part where the cool stuff is explained," he said. "The people who paid full price for it, whatever the full price was at the time that they bought it, gave it a chance. Some of them played it for hundreds of hours. I really think that if you want to make a more subtle game, one that’s not necessarily going to beat you over the head with what’s cool about it right from the first screen. [If] you want to make a game that takes longer and lingers more and is more about the long term experience, then, yeah, pricing the game higher really will help you have almost all the players who come in be willing to get to that point."

Rohrer's suggestion that the larger investment we have in something, the more we're willing to give it a chance, doesn't sound too crazy, if a bit counterintuitive. Look at it a different way. When you were a kid, did your parents ever buy you a totally crappy game? I remember getting some awful licensed games as a kid, and while I would have preferred Chrono Trigger, I didn't have a choice, so I sucked it up and played through what was in front of me and tried to find enjoyment in that. If I spent $20 on a game, I want to know what it's about. If I spend $2 on a game, I might be inclined to turn it off after my initial reaction.

As he researched his essay, Rohrer came across the idea of a "shame list." Players were posting all of the games picked up in a Steam sale, games they knew they would never have time to play. But when a potentially interesting game is available for $2, why not buy it? Isn't it a win-win? The developer is being rewarded with money and the player suddenly has cheap access to a game.

The days and weeks leading up to a season Steam sale often pushes players into a fever pitch of anticipation.
The days and weeks leading up to a season Steam sale often pushes players into a fever pitch of anticipation.

"When a player comes along and does a shame list," he said, "where they have 300 games in the library, of which they’ve only played 30--that’s bad for players! They wasted their money. And people say 'they don’t need to be babysat, they’re adults or people who can make their own choices, we don’t need to hold their hands as developers and make sure they don’t make bad choice.' But at the same time, me, as a developer, being turned from a millionaire into a multimillionaire, by effectively tricking a bunch of people into wasting money on something they’ll never use? I, personally, don’t feel good about that. I don’t think that’s good for those people. I don’t necessarily think it’s McDonalds’ job to make sure we all eat healthy, but at the same time, I wouldn’t want to be running a fast food restaurant myself."

Right now, the plan is for The Castle Doctrine to never have a sale. Rohrer believes it make sense right now, but it's hard to anticipate the future, and nothing applies to every developer's situation. But it's started an interesting conversation.

When asked, he didn't have a good answer as to why The Castle Doctrine will be priced at $16. He just sort of settled on it. It's certainly more expensive than games his friends have made, though.

"It was kind of scary saying 'The Castle Doctrine will be $16 dollars,'" he said. " [...] Should it only be $6 and then go up to $12? Should it be $5 and go up to $10? You don’t know what effect this is going to have. It’s scary to make your price higher than everybody else. The Castle Doctrine will be more than Fez. [laughs] The Castle Doctrine will be more than Braid ever was. The Castle Doctrine will be more than Super Meat Boy. Yeah, I don’t know. It seems scary, but on the other hand, it very well may be the right thing to do, and maybe even got it set too low."

Patrick Klepek on Google+

455 Comments

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jaycrockett

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Edited By jaycrockett

The developer is free to sell his game at whatever price he wants, and to participate in sales or not. I'm free to buy games on sale or at full price (I do both). So we're all good.

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Budwyzer

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@joshwent said:

His other point, that getting games for cheap makes you less invested, just seems obviously wrong. No matter what you spend on a game, if you dislike it, that's all that matters. And if you spent more money on a game, it only follows that you'll dislike it... more.

I wish I could find it but actually there was a study that shows that the more expensive something is, the higher your opinion of it is likely to be. It has something to do with your brain trying to reconcile two conflicting ideas: "I spent a lot of money on this thing" and "this thing sucks". Since the cost is a fixed point of data, the only flex room your brain has is in your opinion, so your brain tricks you into thinking it's better than it actually is.

Nope.

I bought FTL for about $2. Loved the hell out of it. STILL love it.

I bought The Bureau for about $25. Was pissed at myself for it, because I expected a higher quality than I got.

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pyromagnestir

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Okay, let me put this question to you all then.

Since a cheaper price allows more people to try games they wouldn't normally try, why have sales then? Shouldn't all games just be cheaper? This will allow us all to have the games we want with minimal risk of spending money on a bad game?

Because some people are willing to spend more and you need/want all the money you can get? And there's nothing wrong with that.

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FaPaThY

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Okay, let me put this question to you all then.

Since a cheaper price allows more people to try games they wouldn't normally try, why have sales then? Shouldn't all games just be cheaper? This will allow us all to have the games we want with minimal risk of spending money on a bad game?

It's pretty simple, because it's a business and businesses want to make money. Going straight to 75% off, day one makes no sense, when there are plenty of people who'll pay full or near-full price to be an early adopter.

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gbrading

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Edited By gbrading

I'm afraid I don't find his argument convincing at all. As a purely moral argument it's fine, but the world is not just morality. The world runs on Capitalism, and the rules of supply and demand. Items are charged at the prices people are likely to pay for them. The reason we have sales is because old, backlist items do not sell, because they're not new. First adopters are willing to pay the premium higher price to get the game right off the bat and enjoy it from the start. I work in books publishing and it's exactly the same here. By temporarily cutting the price of backlist items you offer the consumer a new incentive for purchasing something they might not otherwise try. You get the on the fence people, and you get a lot of them. Thus you make profit. The idea that sales are somehow preventing the sale of games is patently absurd.

I take my hat off to Jason Rohrer for his highly principled and moralistic approach, but I hope he's prepared to get zero backlist sales years down the line if he never offers his game for a discounted price. His argument is that a lower sale price somehow makes the early adopters who paid a higher price and tried the game earlier feel disenfranchised and I just don't think that's the case. Because they're you're fans, they WANT to pay a premium. They want to show they're the first in the door. It's the reason hordes of people rush out to buy ridiculously priced Apple products on the day of release. Conspicuous Consumption.

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bacongames

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Edited By bacongames

Better article than I expected given how somewhat retread the subject matter has been. I can see Rohrer's side on this but I think even he realizes it's something likely to be more of a personal thing for him rather than lead to any meaningful change which I respect. If he can make it work, I'm not going to begrudge him at all. Doesn't make me inherently interested in his next game but I wish him the best of luck out there.

It's plain to everyone how much new players and vital revenue these sales bring and they often enable playing games for more people who would otherwise be unable to afford it. I happened to be young right around the time just before Steam and while I appreciated it a lot when my parents would spring for a console or a game, I saw the retail market side of things for a number of years because I had to and there's no way it's worth going back to that. PC games at most discounted to 30 or 20 dollars and employing the model of console games in pricing without any of the return and trade policy benefits was a hard sell in retrospect. You had none of the price elasticity, small game exposure, and convenience of current digital storefronts we have now.

I think to Rohrer's point about being conditioned, I would actually say my conditioning was more determined by facing the isles of PC games too expensive for my blood as a kid for years before I could actually start buying PC games myself on Steam.

For what it's worth though, over the years on Steam I'm closing the gap on 300 games and I must say I've played over half of them and enjoyed a majority despite the variations in pricing. Some games I bought because indeed that was just below my threshold in price but others I did buy on a whim and enjoyed as well. The point though is that my threshold has and will change as I continue to get older and earn more money as a professional out in the world. I've had to tell myself not to be a cheapskate so much and just pay the good people their $7.49 even if sometimes I didn't enjoy the game. In the end I thought it was worth it to support the medium.

I think the true unspoken "slippery slope" that makes more sense to me is that once someone owns a certain amount of games, specifically that they have not played, on Steam then it's probably that much easier to wait for the sale and not overextend yourself to get a new game. Imagine someone with 150 games on Steam and has played about 50 or 60, what's the incentive to buy a game new at full price unless they make an exception for a certain franchise? In this case it's always easier to wait and burn through the back catalog. Even so I still see plenty of people buy games relatively new despite a huge back catalog so without data it's hard to generalize.

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@veektarius said:

I do not feel his argument is strong enough to warrant press. Is any indy developer who wants to raise a petty grievance entitled to an article?

Only if that indy wants some free advertisement for his/her soon to be released game through articles like this one.

Hmm, I wonder if you guys can be more passive aggressive.

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JermainJuniorMartinez

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I do not know what to make of his article. I am a grown adult with a very good job and I refuse to purchase a game early or at full price it just does not make sense to me. Today you are almost guaranteed to purchase a game that is super buggy and damn near unplayable. This is a known problem and yet it is sold to the consumer at full price, that to me is unacceptable. I purchased Fallout New Vegas at full price day one for my PS3, the damn thing crashed constantly on me, I repurchased the game on steam at half the price and played on my laptop and had a great time with it. I should not have had to purchase that game twice, and if the PC was the definitive version of the game they should have said so in some sort of disclaimer. I am not asking for my money back all I want is something that says hey this 60 dollar game is unplayable on this platform go play it on the PC. And yet that is never done the game is sold broken at full price and we wait an unspecified time for a patch that may or may not fix it.

I am an adult with a family, job, and in school at night full time, there is no way I can ever finish massive games like Fallout, GTA, or Skyrim in any comparable time to a dude with no kids, job, or responsibilities. So when I finally do get around to the next huge game that I tend to gravitate towards, they have depreciated in value and I purchase them, that does not make me any less dedicated to the hobby than an early adopter who gets it day one.

I do not know if my rant has anything to do with this gentleman's feelings, or the point he was trying to get across, but man it felt good getting this off my chest LOL.

Thanks Patrick, great article as always, and thank you Giantbomb for Existing LOL.

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deactivated-5ff27cb4e1513

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The real question here is, "is your game worth playing?" And if your sales only come during sales, then maybe, frighteningly, the answer to that question is "no."

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pyromagnestir

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@hermes said:

@internetdetective said:

This sounds a lot like the piracy argument, where 1 pirated game equals 1 lost sale. It's bullshit.

The truth is that I have bought lots of games for 3 to 6 dollars that I would have NEVER bought at full price. So instead of getting $0 from me the developer got a few bucks from me just for curiosity.

That's good for me and the game maker.

Exactly.

This guy seems to be making the wrong conclusions out of the sales data, and wishing he could combine the sales numbers with the no-sales prices.

But it doesn't work that way. Sales numbers are bigger because people pay attention to games they would not pay attention otherwise...

That doesn't seem to be what he's saying at all... He readily admits he and others make more money and have way more people buy their games when sales come into play, but only a small percentage of them play the game for any significant amount of time. He's saying if people pay more money for his game then a higher percentage of them are likely to actually play it and that's what he wants.

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lategordon

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Okay, let me put this question to you all then.

Since a cheaper price allows more people to try games they wouldn't normally try, why have sales then? Shouldn't all games just be cheaper? This will allow us all to have the games we want with minimal risk of spending money on a bad game?


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AlexanderSheen

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I do not feel his argument is strong enough to warrant press. Is any indy developer who wants to raise a petty grievance entitled to an article?

Only if that indy wants some free advertisement for his/her soon to be released game through articles like this one.

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Nomin

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The game doesn't even look worth pirating.

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riptide0

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Here's where his uninformed argument breaks down: I have no idea who this guy is or his game. Unless I watch a quick look and get blown away or his game receives universal praise I'm probably not going to spend $16 on it. If the quick look presents the game as sort of interesting but not amazing I'll pass at full price, there's lots of other games out there. Same for critical reviews. I'm not anticipating this game, it's coming from a developer I've never heard of, sites like Giant Bomb are my gateway to see if it's any good and if doesn't come across well then I forget the game and he ends up with no money and no word of mouth. Unless his game is THAT GOOD that everyone is saying buy it now I'll pass. I don't get to play his game, he gets no money and I don't get excited for his next game. Lose-lose.

Now, if, say, six months down the line, his sales have tapered off (which they will, they always do for every game) it goes on sale, half price, $8. I remember thinking it was just okay in that quick look I decide to get it, because what the hell, it's on sale and I want a new game to play. If I like it there'll be anticipation for his next game and he made some money on a purchase I never would've made. Win-win. If I don't, well, make better games. If it never goes on sale I never remember it and he doesn't get any money and no word of mouth. Lose-lose.

For instance: Hotline Miami was crazy hyped up and everyone was saying "must buy game!" It was only $10 and I bought it at full price due to hype. They made a great game, I paid full price. Same with Kentucky Route Zero, Cart Life and Monaco. Hype was high and my interest was piqued so I bought them.

On the other hand I got Thomas Was Alone in a humble bundle. I had zero interest in it but bought the bundle on a whim. Would I have paid $10 for a game I'd never heard of before normally? No. However I got the bundle, played the game and loved it and now I'm excited for Mike Bithell's new game whereas I'd never care before. Same with Orcs Must Die 2 (just recently!), Audiosurf ($1!) and my new favourite game Chivalry. I never would've bought Chiv at full price because I'd heard of bugs and the fact it was multiplayer only turned me off. I saw it for $8.49 and decided what the hell. I've since played it more than any other game I think and bought their expansion early to play in the beta at full price and whatever they bring out next (Chivalry 2?!?!) I'll have to get.

Even big games like Civilization V. I'd never played a 4X game before and had no idea if I'd like it. I'd seen quick looks and seen reviews but I'd never been good at RTS games let alone games like Civ and never would've spent the $60 entry fee (plus $30 for Gods and Kings + ~$20? for the standalone civs) to try my hand at a game like this, even with a demo. ~$100 is a big price for a game. But it went on sale, I picked it up and loved it and spent hours and hours in it. Also bought Brave New World at the preorder price when it came out day one and there's a good chance I'll get Civ VI at full or near full price ($60 is still a lot for some people!) Same with GTA IV, I'd never got into them before and my brother bought GTA IV which I eventually played and loved and led me to buy GTA V at full price.

Based on my own buying habits there's tons of indie games I'm never, ever going to look at unless they're in a bundle or on sale because there's SO MANY of them. I can't buy every game at full price even if I wanted to. Like I said, he won't be getting any money from me unless his game looks so good I have to have it like Kentucky Route Zero/Hotline Miami did. If it gets average reviews and it goes on sale I'd consider getting it, otherwise I'll probably never play it, he won't get any money from me and I won't have any interest in his next game. And based on things like this: http://hitboxteam.com/dustforce-sales-figures there's a lot of extra cash to be made in sales and humble bundles he's only hurting himself by not taking part in. I also remember the Baldur's Gate: EE guys saying their game would never go on sale and look what happened, it went on sale. Hopefully he makes enough over the first month to justify never putting it on sale, good luck.

That's too many words :(

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mmslayer

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I am fully ok that I may never play a game I bought on sale. The point is, it's a value to me at the sale price. If I play the game at all, it makes me more likely to trust the developer to make a good game next time. And it buys the developer brand recognition, even if I don't play the game. There are plenty of games I buy on sale that I would never buy at full price. Also, I hate it when any entity wants to protect me from myself, or presume to know what's in my best interest.

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Edited By Nigglenummy

Congrats to him for deciding to reward early adopters with a lower price. This is a totally fair and understandable business practice, in my opinion. But to assume that the games that people buy on Steam during sales are due to their getting "tricked into wasting money" on games they'll never play is completely and utterly ridiculous. That is basically his entire argument. So because some Steam users have un-played games, these discounts are inherently ruining things? And that's the basis of his decision to not offer his game for sale? I completely disagree, and I kind of feel sorry he feels that way.

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Unfortunately, more and more games are being released within each month. What does this mean as a consumer? That I only have time to play a fraction of those games.

Meaning this idea from Rohrer is stupid. People are going to look for best deal no matter what, so either:

  • I, as a consumer, will stockpile games as they launch to get them cheaper his way. Or I will wait for them to hit a sale or release in a HumbleBundle.

OR

  • I will be more selective of my games, meaning I would probably skip over games from small developers like him in order to be sure that my investment of time and money is well directed toward a complete and well polished product. ( I just pronounced polished as "Pole-ished" in my head and now I can't stop)

So now, following Rohrer's idea, I won't have the opportunity to ever come around to some obscure indie game that didn't come into my little world until 4 years after its release. I will look at it and its $16 price-tag, say "WTF" and my eyes will immediately wonder over to a new release that is 50% off and buy that instead.

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FaPaThY

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Edited By FaPaThY

Don't agree with anything this guy said. He acts like this is all for our benefit, when it's obvious he's just trying to trick people into accepting his backwards ass thinking, as if it'll suddenly get people who aren't at all interested in his games to buy them at full or only slightly discounted prices. It's pretty laughable that this guy thinks he can price his game the way Notch does, as if his game will be some miracle phenomenon like MC is.

When I buy a game day one and immediately play it for 12hrs straight and everyday after, it's not because I dropped $60 on it. It's because I REALLY wanted to fucking play it, and had been anticipating it for months or something. Then there's the other side, where I've enjoyed hundreds of hours of playtime in games I got on sale or from a bundle. Games I probably wouldn't have even tried if they were forever full-price.

This guy's game, I don't give a shit about so, personally, I won't even give it a second glance, assuming he actually sticks to his 'no sales' plan.

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patrickklepek

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Edited By patrickklepek

@da_anguiano said:

If it takes me an hour to begin enjoying and understanding your indie video game then you've made some really poor design choices (usually in favor of aesthetic).

Would anyone play a board game where no one was having any fun for the first hour. No, obviously.

To a certain extent the low price of indie games in general has devalued video games as a whole for me personally and I in no way think that's a bad thing.

If I'm going to pay sixty dollars for your "AAA" title, then it better damn well be a great game or else fuck you cause I spent ten dollars on Hotline Miami and that game phenomenal.

I wouldn't agree with that at all. I didn't enjoy Spelunky in my first hour because it's not meant to be enjoyed--it's meant to be studied through failure. The game doesn't communicate that in its tutorial, nor does it beat you over the head with it at any other point. It's for you to discover. The reason I put the game down on XBLA was because I didn't get what the game was about.

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Applekid

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Awesome. He guaranteed that I will never even look at his game. Good job.

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Edited By loller432

It probably would have been better for Rohrer to just keep quiet on this opinion. He isn't Blizzard or Call of Duty who have the staying power to keep their games at full price for years. He isn't helping the consumer even if he tries to convince us he is. I have almost 400 games on steam, I don't call it a shame list. He honestly just seems like he wants to be both rich and for people to love his game and while there is nothing wrong with that he is doing it on his terms rather than the peoples who are going to be buying playing and judging his product and now him too. I think I will pass on his products until the guy steps off his high horse.

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Swervbot

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(a man, not a woman, protecting their family)

This is a problem now. Male protagonists are now a problem.

Remember kids, a woman in a video game should neither be the protagonist nor a side character or antagonist. She can't be weak, but can't be strong either. Heaven forbid she be attractive, but those be damned who make her ugly. She's never to be the victim, though if she's in any other role she's just a simulated male, and therefore should not be in the video game.

In fact, if you have characters with gender in your game, you shouldn't be allowed to make your game. This is an age of freedom, after all. Why would anybody be allowed to produce anything that doesn't cater to everybody's feelings?

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pr1mus

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Edited By pr1mus

I think broken games and games that launch with 100$ in DLC are a more slippery slope. I feel pretty good about saying fuck that and buying these games for 5$.

If the game is solid, not loaded with bullshit DLC or micro transaction that are very obviously content cut from the main game then i have no problem paying full price.

Sadly those games are fewer every year.

Also his proposed business model is the stupidest thing i've heard in a long time and not worth of any consideration.

This is not rewarding early adopters, this is tricking people in buying something you know next to nothing about that may or may not be any good or even functional at launch. Yeah no thank you.

Seriously, i read his whole "essay" a couple weeks ago and now being reminded about it and this is all so stupid. His game will fail. It will be quickly forgotten. No sales? Ever? No one will ever pay any attention to it after a couple days if only because it will be buried and never again brought on the storefront of any company who will have it on offer. Seems to me he doesn't want to be successful or have people play his game so mission accomplished i guess.

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koolaid

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This seems strangely similar to game press writers saying that you should turn off ad-block so they get paid for the ads they sell on their website. Do something completely inconvenient so we get paid more. Nonsense.

I'm pretty sure he said the opposite. He makes tons of money from steam sales. But he'd rather less people play and enjoy the game then have 10x people buy it for 90% off and never play it. He also feels like he is ripping off the early adopters who pay full price by going on sale.

Also, I think you mean "Do something completely inconvenient so we get paid."

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davidwitten22

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Edited By davidwitten22

@davidwitten22:

And something has just now come to mind: the guy in the article whose name I am far too lazy to look up feels sorry for people who pay more because they bought just before a sale. What about the inverse, though? What's his opinion on somebody who just now found out about this game and has to pay a higher price because they were a day late?

You should tweet that question or something to him. Honestly, I don't think he actually cares about any of this. It's got him a TON of free publicity for his game.

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Edited By BluPotato

I really don't see how it's a sale's fault for a consumer's poor habits.

Also, no matter what price point something is purchased at, what does it say about your product if nobody wants to play it after purchasing it. His whole 'tricked a bunch of people into wasting their money' comes off as a real insult towards other developers.

People will pay what they think a product is worth. I have a sneaking suspicion that increased sales during a discount can be explained alot by the sudden visibility of the game in the marketplace. I also seem to remember someone else saying that a sale can revitalize non-discount sales by word of mouth. If he's seeing the opposite in his own data, maybe he is just not making an engaging enough product to get people talking.

Now excuse me, but I must get back to wasting money buying games I'll never play as I've been trained to do.

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hockeymask27

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Edited By hockeymask27

If being a dick means I wait for sales to spend less money then I'm a dick.

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Edited By vigorousjammer

I feel like I agree about this, but only partially.

A large-scale, temporary sale invites more people to buy, but it also invites more competition.

Many people (myself included) don't want to buy anything during a Steam sale unless it's on the "Daily Deal" because that's when all of the best deals are.

However, I also think games should go down to rock-bottom prices once people naturally stop buying it. I just don't think those prices should be temporary. I'm not always willing to spend $15 or $30 on some games if I don't feel there's value there, but many times, I would gladly spend $5 on it.

However, waiting for a temporary sale and then missing it creates this notion of "Well, I COULD have gotten it on sale, but I missed it, and now I have to wait for the next one". Where, If the price dropped permanently, I wouldn't have to wait for the next one, I could simply buy it.

Steam sales also pressure people to spend a BUNCH of money within a small timeframe. If I was able to spread out game purchases over a long period of time, it would lead to me spending more money in the long run... because I could spend it in smaller, more manageable chunks.

Picture it this way; there's a steam sale and I end up buying $200 worth of games in one week. I end up draining my bank account, but it gives me a stockpile of games to play over the rest of the year. However, if there weren't any sales, and prices simply dropped with the trends, I would probably be spending an average of $5-15 per-week, which is much more manageable for the average consumer. Tally that up, and it could range anywhere between $280-780 for an entire year from a single consumer.

Both low cost, and low stakes provide a healthy environment for consumers to comfortably spend their money, and when they don't feel pressured to spend a bunch of it at the same time, they likely will end up spending more of it.

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umbaglo

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Can you remember the last time there wasn't a video game sale going on?

Could be better stated as "Can you remember the last time there wasn't a sale going on?" There's nothing unique about video game sales, compared to sales of other products.

While I do personally disagree with the bundle model, as I feel those DO devalue the worth of games, I believe that Jason Rohrer is discounting the main benefit developers get from sales. Sales, in general, are a way to attract some new customers in a product well after initial interest has waned. In physical goods, it also has the benefit of helping to get rid of stock, but that's a situation that isn't as true in modern gaming.

Developers see huge benefits from Steam sales (among others) because it's relative to their sales up to that point. If they had their large initial purchase period a few months ago, then they may not be seeing very many sales now, and thus a sale entices new clients, which should make for good will (and hopefully people who enjoy the game!), which might mean higher sales for the next release.

Is he wrong in that there's people who can get "burned" when it comes to buying just before a sale? Sure. This is true in any market, as well, and those markets tend to respond in the same way that Jason did with that one gentleman; if you went to Best Buy and bought something that went on sale the following week, they will reimburse you the difference.

Sales also help the exact kind of person he was talking about, too. If he keeps Castle Doctrine at 16$ forever after release, then if the person he was talking about would not be able to buy it. Not everyone can afford to pay full price, and while it means that you'll get early adopters subsidizing later purchasers, would you rather not have as many people playing your game as possible? Especially when you're talking about multiplayer-oriented ones?

In any case, I'm interested in seeing how this experiment turns out for him, and wish him the best of luck.

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If it takes me an hour to begin enjoying and understanding your indie video game then you've made some really poor design choices (usually in favor of aesthetic).

Would anyone play a board game where no one was having any fun for the first hour. No, obviously.

To a certain extent the low price of indie games in general has devalued video games as a whole for me personally and I in no way think that's a bad thing.

If I'm going to pay sixty dollars for your "AAA" title, then it better damn well be a great game or else fuck you cause I spent ten dollars on Hotline Miami and that game phenomenal.

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Really this is what we have become. Now developers and reporters telling us we are terrible human beings because people wait for sales, discounts and bundles to get games at better price. This was silly when nintendo said this, it was silly when Kotaku had an article like this earlier and it is stilly now. But hey, we will get to read next year, "You are a terrible person because you are not buying every game that comes out! Think of the lost revenue that is happening because you are not buying every single game that comes out."

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pyromagnestir

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@joshwent said:

His other point, that getting games for cheap makes you less invested, just seems obviously wrong. No matter what you spend on a game, if you dislike it, that's all that matters. And if you spent more money on a game, it only follows that you'll dislike it... more.

I wish I could find it but actually there was a study that shows that the more expensive something is, the higher your opinion of it is likely to be. It has something to do with your brain trying to reconcile two conflicting ideas: "I spent a lot of money on this thing" and "this thing sucks". Since the cost is a fixed point of data, the only flex room your brain has is in your opinion, so your brain tricks you into thinking it's better than it actually is.

Which obviously doesn't mean it always works like that. I've spent a lot of money on stuff that has disappointed and spent very little or even nothing on other stuff that I thought was great. I spent 240 bucks to essentially play Fire Emblem Awakening, buying a 3DS and the game, but I don't automatically believe it's the best game ever made. It isn't even my favorite Fire Emblem game. That title belongs to Path of Radiance, a game I was given as a gift and thus got for free.

It also then calls into question if making people pay more for his game then conflicts with his desire not to trick them. Though I guess tricking them into playing his game by making them pay more is a more acceptable way of tricking them in his mind.

But when talking about games he has to realize that there are two resources at play, money and time. One is far more trivial then the other, people might gladly pay a couple bucks for a game but justifying the time to play that game is the real issue. When a person doesn't use their time to play the game it's a choice they make and it doesn't make their decision to spend a couple bucks on something a waste. By doing this he is tricking the people out of their time, which is much more valuable than the few dollars they might have spent.

...Does any of what I said make sense? It seems to, to me.

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w1n5t0n

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@towersixteen said:

@lategordon said:

This is my first comment on Giantbomb so go easy on me.

It seems like a lot of folks gloss over one of the points Rohrer is making. He and fellow developers benefit from steam sales monetarily, which can help the developer make more games and keep them in business. However, it seems that Rohrer not only would like money (obviously) but equally values people playing his game. I believe what he wants are people to both buy his games and play his games. As he looked at the reviews of his games from players he sees that many people aren't putting time in his games before the gamer decides to quit.

A game bought cheaply can lead a player to say to themself; "I bought this game I never would have bought anyway so the developer should be happy that they get this found money from me".

What Rohrer wants is for the player to both buy his game and play his game a lot. What he is seeing is a trend that games bought cheaply might be causing people to stop playing or never play his game.

Not sure how much that is true, but I think it is a definitely an interesting point to make.

I think where that perspective annoys me is that it assumes that, if someone buys his game and doesn't play it immediately or even within the year, something bad has happened. I do that occasionally. I buy things I normally wouldn't buy on sale, and then don't play them for awhile. But it's not because I'm tricked, and I don't need him to nanny my spending habits. I buy those games because, being outside my usual interest zones, it's not a good investment at full price. Because, again, outside usual interest zones, it might take me awhile to be in the proper mood to try it. When I try it, I may quickly decide I don't like it - it happens. But if it was like 3 bucks, who cares? And whether I liked it or not, either way I've broadened my horizons.

He doesn't like that people buy his game and than don't play it, or don't play it much, but I don't think people need to be saved from their own buying habits, in this case. It really isn't super manipulative, and it's really their own business. He's offering a product, and shouldn't dictate how people use it (or don't).

I don't think that's exactly his argument. He isn't talking about people NOT playing his game. He's specifically commenting that the people who bought his game on sale, and spent very little time on it, rated it poorly. He then notes that people who paid MORE for the game spent more time with it and thus gave it a higher review.

I'm not saying he's right or wrong, but he's drawing parallels between 'spend more money = spend more time = fully understand the game' as opposed to 'spend 3 bucks = spend 30 minutes = this game is trash'.

The mentality he's fighting against it games being priced lower and thus being treated as throw away affairs. It reminds me of a story I heard when I was a bartender. A man was tasked with importing and marketing a vodka to the American market. Pricing the vodka lower in order to have the broadest access and appeal wasn't working. Sales were going anywhere and the vodka was considered inferior in quality. The man's solution? Rebranding and repricing. He massively raised the price of the vodka and marketed it as high quality. The result? Sales increased because the vodka was considered a high class liquor. But it was the same drink in the bottle.

I'm not saying that bad games will be reviewed better or appreciated more if they have a higher price tag; we've seen our fair share of bad games at full price. But he is drawing a correllation between how players view the money they spend on a game versus the perception of quality they have before they even go into the game. I've done that myself. There are times were I go into a 60 dollar game and feel as if the product wasn't up to snuff. But there are also times were I've paid bargain bin prices for a game and felt it was worth much much more.

Would I have felt the same way if I bought the game at full retail price? I couldn't say. But there is some expectation of quality/enjoyment associated with how much you pay for a game. And I think that's the point Rohrer's driving at.

I think the "mentality" he's fighting against is based on a flawed idea. It isn't simply the low price that makes a game treated as a throw away affair. It's probably that the games wasn't one they were very interested in, but given a low price there willing to take the risk. It's silly to think that's the reason someone would't play his game very much or give it a high review.

Also cry me a river on the whole If I pay more I may perceive more value. I think I'm fine paying less if it comes to that. I don't think anyone turns up their nose at a $5 game because it's bargain bin. I think most people look at what the game has to offer then makes a decision on how much it's worth to them.

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@internetdetective said:

This sounds a lot like the piracy argument, where 1 pirated game equals 1 lost sale. It's bullshit.

The truth is that I have bought lots of games for 3 to 6 dollars that I would have NEVER bought at full price. So instead of getting $0 from me the developer got a few bucks from me just for curiosity.

That's good for me and the game maker.

Exactly.

This guy seems to be making the wrong conclusions out of the sales data, and wishing he could combine the sales numbers with the no-sales prices.

But it doesn't work that way. Sales numbers are bigger because people pay attention to games they would not pay attention otherwise...

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Johnyliltoe

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I would question the cause and effect on the "People who pay less are less likely to give a game a chance".

Jason seems to be inferring that by paying less the person is less likely to invest time into the game, but is it not just as likely that the type of person who waits for a sale is the type of person that would invest less time? I mean, morality of selling the game to a person who doesn't want it aside, I figure it's more likely that the people that would ever give the game a chance are still doing so. There are just a bunch of other people buying it as well because it's on sale, even if they'd never play it in the first place.

I get the fact that it can feel sleezy, and I support Jason on making the moral choice to buck the trend, but I don't think it's a problem as a whole.

That said, it does take me back to a video I watched awhile back about how paying creative people more makes them less creative, so there is likely a risk of that. I can't remember the series name... it's where they draw out ideas on a whiteboard.

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deactivated-5e49e9175da37

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So instead of psychologically training gamers to be patient, he'd rather they're trained to make impulse purchasing decisions under a limited time frame..? Is that an uncharitable interpretation?

I know it makes economic sense, but at the point when I'm creating business structures designed to force players to play the game how I see fit rather than how they see fit, I would expect them to revolt. I'm a neurotic and controlling person and that's why no one likes me, and if you act neurotic and controlling with the thing you are trying to get people to purchase, that'll turn them off.

Whoever was attacking him because he decided the protagonist of his game is a man protecting a woman... I doubt those are very reasonable people.

Edit: related to price/enjoyment, I bought Electronic Super Joy for like 87 cents and IT'S FUCKING INCREDIBLE.

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xbob42

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I do not have unlimited income, so no argument this man ever makes would convince me to pay his full price for his game. Sales allow me to buy more games. A temporary minor price reduction when the game is new is fine, but the rhetoric of "not punishing early adopters," is silly. Their reward for early adopting is getting the game sooner.

The reward for patient gamers is a lower price. This is how things like games work. Something 5 years old should not cost as much as something that came out today, for so many reasons. Less demand, the fact that game design doesn't age well a lot of the time, interest in other products, etc.

This man is taking a hard-line stance that really makes no sense, based on a flawed concept of what it means to be an early adopter or what a sale is for. "You know most of those people never play your game, right?" That's great. I play the games I buy on sale, so what, exactly, does he say about me?

It's just silly.

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rjpelonia

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I can definitely get behind what Jason Rohrer is saying. I suppose I'm certainly not as against his argument as I've never been one to jump one the sale wagon and purchase every little thing because "why not". Not saying there's anything wrong with that action, it's your money, go as crazy as you want. But to know that there are people out there who are excited about a game (especially an indie game) would rather give less money to the developer is a kind of a bummer. Maybe in some cases they do in fact make up for it with the quantity of sales, but as Rohrer pointed out with the other cases of just getting flat-lined between each sale, that seems a lot more hurtful having people go with the idea, "Hey, this was a lot less a few days ago, I'll just wait for the next sale".

In any case, another great article, Scoops.

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deactivated-5e60061752a57

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Maybe games are too expensive.

Maybe devs should feel lucky they're able to make money off of a nonessential form of entertainment. In many countries the norm is to not pay for them at all.

No one has to play games.

Maybe selling a large number of copies at a lower/low price is a good thing.

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I get the games i really care about on through pre order or on release, but there are soo many games coming out on Steam these days, eventually there's going to be a few i end up grabbing due to sales.

I feel good about that because i'm going to put time into something i otherwise may not have, and i feel good because the discount is an added bonus, if it's good for the developer too, who is losing?

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InternetDetective

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This sounds a lot like the piracy argument, where 1 pirated game equals 1 lost sale. It's bullshit.

The truth is that I have bought lots of games for 3 to 6 dollars that I would have NEVER bought at full price. So instead of getting $0 from me the developer got a few bucks from me just for curiosity.

That's good for me and the game maker.

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Edited By Owennerd

The DayZ standalone was the highest selling game on Steam during the winter sale, and it never went on sale.

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Wow is this gentleman ever off base. Castle Doctrine is a multi-player game, it lives and dies by its player count. Which means that the first month after launch will be the best time to own that game (player decay is the rule for all but the stickiest multi-player games). that is to say, the greatest value a person can get for the game is in the first few weeks. Folks who wait to pick it up for $2.99 in a year are NOT getting that value! Why does he expect them to pay for it? If CD happens to be the next DOTA, I can see paying full price next year. In the more likely scenario, I would be paying $16 to participate in a dead game with only a few other hardcore players who are not welcoming to new players.

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@hailinel said:

@tmthomsen: That's the point. He sees Humble/Steam sales as hurting the early adopters that buy at full price.

Early adopters will always be manipulated and later express regret. The value of anything is derived by how much you need/want it now or can wait for it at a "potentially cheaper" amount later. It's the basic principle of hype and zeitgeist that keeps consumers buying things and the capitalist market alive.

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I think that "it's bad for consumers to have a backlog" is kinda shortsighted, the vast majority of those probably don't spend more than they can afford on those games, and since people's personal economy may rapidly change, often for the worse. It could be good to have bought the games you are vaguely interested in when you could afford them, instead of waiting until you may not be able to afford it anymore.

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Hmmm. I've been thinking about this for a few weeks now. I'm impressed. Good reporting, Patrick. Lots to think about.

I like sales, they can do a lot for a game. Problem is, there are countless times when someone on a review or article comments, there's a good chance there will be at least one person who says: I'll wait for it to go on sale.

which is fine if it weren't so common. Because of the nature of sales, it's like coke or something at a supermarket. People rarely will pay full price. They know it'll go on sale. Whether it's next week or the week after. Those are constants. Just like games have become. It's sad that it affects games like this and it seems it's not just a thing of money.

Difference between say coke sales and game sales is this: with coke, it doesn't matter which week they sell it. It doesn't have a community that changes when people enjoy it.

with games, it does. Especially with online games.

I'm a big supporter of buying games new and paying full price. If the game is good and warrants it, I want to make sure I support it. Not just write off a game and say, meh. Maybe when it's on sale. That's what's become of things like Steam Sales. They're good but they've created a dark side. But then you look at it from the consumers side. They have every right to wait for a cheaper price. Not everyone can afford a full price game. And they're a lot of pros to sales.

I really like the idea of rewarding early adopters by selling it cheaper early on. It's a good move. I'd probably buy a lot more games if that were the case. It's smart. I like it.

Like I said, lot to think about. As I see right now, there are already 3 pages to this article. I'm sure they're are also a lot of "it's the consumers right"

it's a interesting topic. I'm curious to see what happens with game prices as digital becomes bigger on consoles. I think the basic business philosophy is: sell it to as many people at full price, then we'll get the rest on sale. I'm still happy to pay full price, whether that's 10, 20, or 60 bucks for a game. As long as it's worth it. I want to support developers. But I also like the idea of lower prices. Can't argue with paying less money.

Great article Patrick. Thumbs way up. Very thought provoking.

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hermes

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The issue is, Rohrer seems to believe the sales number are closer to the expected performance of his games than the no-sales number, when the reality is the other way around. Its the same fallacy publishers use when they count pirated numbers as potential lost sales numbers.

I don't want this to sound overaggressive but I don't think Inside Star-filled Sky would have sold well at all, if it were not for the sales. That does not speak about the quality of the game, but the quality of his PR and marketing work. The market of indie games with experimental gimmicks is overrun, there are literally hundreds of such games, and a few dozens are released every month... if he does not work (a lot) to advertise the game, there is little he can do just watching at the sales and expecting them to rise. In fact, I would argue that his game being listed in the sale did more for him than what he could do in his limited reach.

Checking at his game on steam, I saw that its a low budget dual shooter costing about $10. Even discounting sales, how many indie games out there are competing with his game? How does he expect people to jump at his game if there is not even a demo of it? Sure, he has his own page, but that has a very limited reach; its the equivalent of using a personal facebook account to promote the game. Case in point, if it wasn't for this article, I wouldn't have noticed that game, and I consider myself decently versed in the subject.

Let me be clear about this: I have several friends that never spent a dime in PC games (legally, that is), before steam sales and humble bundle. Most of the games I have bought on PC, I bought during sales. I have adhered to the "wait until its on sale" strategy. However, I should not consider myself being a part of the lost sales, because I would not have consider buying those games under most circumstances...

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Video_Game_King

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@abendlaender:

I think @davidwitten22 already addressed the point. Now I want people to tackle that other one (although they might have already).