Valve Making Big Push Towards Linux Support

@predator said:

I thought RMS was surprisingly lenient on this subject. I would have said we don't want Steam on GNU/Linux at all, but he makes a good point.

Why do you think all software should be free?

I'm legitimately curious, what is the advantage of using Linux over the other platforms? I can't imagine it's good for gamers, as even Mac users currently have more access to game titles, and program compatibility has to be terrible all across the board. I think it's mostly used for server-based stuff?

Either way, nothing wrong with more people able to play vidgames on more stuff.

@iAmJohn said:

@predator said:

I thought RMS was surprisingly lenient on this subject. I would have said we don't want Steam on GNU/Linux at all, but he makes a good point.

Why do you think all software should be free?

Because they're so blindingly selfish, that they'd rather everyone give them stuff for free than actually work for it, or even steal for it. They just sit there grotesque maw agape sucking in anything that's been made available to them for free. Feeding off of everyone else's hard labor. Whilst exhaling, they spit nonsensical complaints about things they cannot even fathom or presume to understand.

@peterh: I get what it means, but I've never seen it put that way. "Free as in beer" seems like a silly way to put it for anyone who doesn't already understand it...

@Insectecutor said:

Looks to me like this severs Valve's dependence on Microsoft and opens the door to Steam everywhere and, along with the 10' interface, is grist to the Steam console rumour-mill.

I don't think so. I think Valve is mighty happy with being on Windows and the rest is just to please their consumers, to keep them loyal. Valve doesn't hate Windows, or Microsoft. They aren't trying to escape them.

It's very strange to me that Valve is pursuing this, considering that most hardcore Linux users are running it on crappy little netbooks that won't be able to handle modern games. Everyone else has it partitioned and will continue playing on Windows *shrugs*

I saw that linux picture before I read the title of the article, so I immediately thought this would was an announcement for an X-Files game. Needless to say, I am a little disappointed.

@Draxyle said:

I'm legitimately curious, what is the advantage of using Linux over the other platforms? I can't imagine it's good for gamers, as even Mac users currently have more access to game titles, and program compatibility has to be terrible all across the board. I think it's mostly used for server-based stuff?

Either way, nothing wrong with more people able to play vidgames on more stuff.

I've been using Linux on both the desktop and the server side for about a decade now. For 99% of what most people do in the run of a day (web browsing, email, etc), most Linux distributions are completely capable of meeting their needs. A large part of what I think keeps people away is the support structure (Everybody around you uses Windows, and the people who you ask for help are mostly likely to be able to do so in Windows, so that's what you use). In terms of functionality, it's more like OSX than it is like Windows. OSX is, under the hood, based on a heavily modified version of another OS called BSD, which is a cousin to Linux. The relation between OSX and desktop Linux is kind of similar to that between iOS and Android.... except Linux on the PC has had about 5 times as long to mature, and the hardware environment isn't nearly as volatile.

@MordeaniisChaos:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratis_versus_libre

@Draxyle said:

I'm legitimately curious, what is the advantage of using Linux over the other platforms? I can't imagine it's good for gamers, as even Mac users currently have more access to game titles, and program compatibility has to be terrible all across the board. I think it's mostly used for server-based stuff?

Either way, nothing wrong with more people able to play vidgames on more stuff.

My original reason for using linux was that I love customization which is far easier in linux. The common response to that is well you shouldn't need to customize anything, the defaults should be the best. That's fine for most people but I actually love changing everything about my system, it's actually fun for me.

Lately however the real reason is my development work is far easier in linux (I do mainly computational research, but other random dev stuff I do for fun I also find much better in linux). I think the linux repository system is far better than the update and software management features in windows and mac os, they are only catching up now by building desktop app stores, but I think there's still many advantages to the usual linux package system.

And I guess the final reason is that most of my non work and non game computer time is on the web, then there's really not much of a difference between any platform (ignoring flash which works but sucks on linux).

I don't know, I've been discolored on Linux because of the "I want my freedom and fuck Microsoft and Apple because they are spying on me" bullshit. Reads to me like the people who think we didn't land on the moon or that Jewish vampires run America. That said i guess this is good, hope not to many people are devoted to this task so that Valve will still make "timely" game releases

Edit: I also don't really see people developing for Linux as the stereotype for Linux users are the type of people who would pirate and feel great about it (not saying that is true at all but it is what big-wigs in America think, if they think at all about Linux.) Considering Apple still can't get a good number of people developing on their platform that has a bigger market, Linux would be a stretch at best.

@iAmJohn said:

@yoshimitz707 said:

@ccmdo: Except Steam on Mac is still awful and it makes no business sense to not release half life 3 on everything.

I wouldn't call it awful, but Steam on Mac is definitely the equivalent of Windows iTunes to be sure.

Which is also Garbage. Half the time I can't even click most things on the mac version of steam. They just don't respond.

Nice to see the corporate masochists are perverting free ideals into tin-foil paranoia, and even greed.

Keep drinking the coolaid.

@Puddlesworth said:

(ignoring flash which works but sucks on linux).

Fixed that for you.

@yoshimitz707 said:

@iAmJohn said:

@yoshimitz707 said:

@ccmdo: Except Steam on Mac is still awful and it makes no business sense to not release half life 3 on everything.

I wouldn't call it awful, but Steam on Mac is definitely the equivalent of Windows iTunes to be sure.

Which is also Garbage. Half the time I can't even click most things on the mac version of steam. They just don't respond.

Only issue I sometimes get is that the store will randomly decide not to work sometimes, and restarting Steam doesn't always fix it. It's pretty dumb.

@yoshimitz707 said:

@iAmJohn said:

@yoshimitz707 said:

@ccmdo: Except Steam on Mac is still awful and it makes no business sense to not release half life 3 on everything.

I wouldn't call it awful, but Steam on Mac is definitely the equivalent of Windows iTunes to be sure.

Which is also Garbage. Half the time I can't even click most things on the mac version of steam. They just don't respond.

That's nothing to do with Steam. The higher ups at Apple came to the conclusion that people found the need to click on things to be too complex of a task, so they went ahead and removed all clicking functionality on a Mac OS to keep it simple. It's going to be the wave of the future.

Good! One less reason for me to continue using Windows.

Valve wins this generation.

One step closer to the Steam Box.

@ThievingJacob said:

Nice to see the corporate masochists are perverting free ideals into tin-foil paranoia, and even greed.

Keep drinking the coolaid.

Heya RMS how is the faraday cage surrounding your entire house working for you.

Call me crazy but I think(and hope) in 20-25 years Linux will be the main platform for PC games.

@mbr2: Why? What's the reason for wanting huge corporations that help our country to be gone? Go buy stuff.

@mbr2: You crazy. In 20-25 years I want PC games to run when I buy them because I just bought myself a new game labelled "PC" and the specs on the back matched/were lower than the PC I own...

alternatively, I want STEAM to be the platform PC developers work on because it's the best platform and Publisher specific channels like Origin and Blizzard close down because Steam makes Developing for PC so much more profitable.

That X isn't like the X-files logo.... it IS the X-files logo.

Great news. I look forward to seeing what they do with it.

@predator said:

As I said in the earlier forum thread, RMS explains the good and bad effects of Steam on GNU/Linux well.

Not a shot against you, predator, but that article is beyond dumb. It asserts "nonfree games" are "bad" without actually explaining why.

@mbr2: You're crazy. Crazy in the head.

@Axelhander said:

@predator said:

As I said in the earlier forum thread, RMS explains the good and bad effects of Steam on GNU/Linux well.

Not a shot against you, predator, but that article is beyond dumb. It asserts "nonfree games" are "bad" without actually explaining why.

It's RMS, the guy is nuts.

@Draxyle said:

I'm legitimately curious, what is the advantage of using Linux over the other platforms? I can't imagine it's good for gamers, as even Mac users currently have more access to game titles, and program compatibility has to be terrible all across the board. I think it's mostly used for server-based stuff?

Either way, nothing wrong with more people able to play vidgames on more stuff.

Keeping this short and without too much technical minutia, it depends on who you are and what you want to do with your computer. Linux and Windows are like night and day, they are completely different, so the way you think about Linux really isn't the same as the way you think about Windows. Windows is more or less the same no matter who you are or what your needs are. It can't be easily changed to fit your needs. Linux, in part because of it's fragmented, open-source nature and in part because of the traditional philosophy of Unix software engineering, is versatile. It can be changed to fit whatever problem you need to solve. Windows can only fit the needs of the lowest common denominator. Here's a quote that I think embodies the power of Linux (and other Unix-like operating systems):

UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things.

But Linux can just as easily be adapted to fit the needs of the average Desktop consumer. For someone buying a computer with the latest Ubuntu LTS, they'll be greeted with an attractive, easy-to-use interface to do their web-browsing, or whatever it is that average consumers do. Unfortunately, there aren't many games for Linux, but options do exist for gamers wanting to switch to Linux. Flash works on Linux, and I've played a lot of my favorite games through a program called WINE, though compatibility with Windows will never be 100% because Windows is a moving target.

@Axelhander: I thought Americans were supposed to love freedom and that it was an argument unto itself...

I tried Linux for a while on a Dell laptop and on my PS3 (Ubuntu), it was pretty cool, but nothing about it's unique stuff grabbed me whatsoever, and way more programs and other things worked on Windows or OS X so I just went back to those.

@slyspider said:

I don't know, I've been discolored on Linux because of the "I want my freedom and fuck Microsoft and Apple because they are spying on me" bullshit. Reads to me like the people who think we didn't land on the moon or that Jewish vampires run America. That said i guess this is good, hope not to many people are devoted to this task so that Valve will still make "timely" game releases

Edit: I also don't really see people developing for Linux as the stereotype for Linux users are the type of people who would pirate and feel great about it (not saying that is true at all but it is what big-wigs in America think, if they think at all about Linux.) Considering Apple still can't get a good number of people developing on their platform that has a bigger market, Linux would be a stretch at best.

I wouldn't agree with that. Just look at the numbers on every Humble Bundle. We're on par with the Mac people. And we pay more. We're just happy to have a game running on our system at all. Most desktop Linux users are nerds in the IT industry who are paid moderately well and spend money on games.

It's pretty obvious what is happening. Gabe sees the changes in Windows 8, with the Windows App Store and the locking down of the bootloader (and who knows what else (read: i have no idea, i haven't done the research)) as bad for gaming on an open platform, and bad for business. So he's trying to workaround that by supporting an open platform. So game developers can go to the one service that's running everywhere on everything blah blah blah open open open choice choice choice.

Plus Steam Box running Linux.

@TinyGrasshopper said:

@slyspider said:

I don't know, I've been discolored on Linux because of the "I want my freedom and fuck Microsoft and Apple because they are spying on me" bullshit. Reads to me like the people who think we didn't land on the moon or that Jewish vampires run America. That said i guess this is good, hope not to many people are devoted to this task so that Valve will still make "timely" game releases

Edit: I also don't really see people developing for Linux as the stereotype for Linux users are the type of people who would pirate and feel great about it (not saying that is true at all but it is what big-wigs in America think, if they think at all about Linux.) Considering Apple still can't get a good number of people developing on their platform that has a bigger market, Linux would be a stretch at best.

I wouldn't agree with that. Just look at the numbers on every Humble Bundle. We're on par with the Mac people. And we pay more. We're just happy to have a game running on our system at all. Most desktop Linux users are nerds in the IT industry who are paid moderately well and spend money on games.

It's pretty obvious what is happening. Gabe sees the changes in Windows 8, with the Windows App Store and the locking down of the bootloader (and who knows what else (read: i have no idea, i haven't done the research)) as bad for gaming on an open platform, and bad for business. So he's trying to workaround that by supporting an open platform. So game developers can go to the one service that's running everywhere on everything blah blah blah open open open choice choice choice.

Plus Steam Box running Linux.

Great example of why closed platforms are bad. Not for any philosophical neck-beard reasons, but because those platforms just aren't reliable, both for technical and business reasons.

...Though the same argument could be used against Valve so I wont explore that too thoroughly. :P

How big is the market share of Linux computers?

@darklighter009:

Depends on the market.

Gabe saw what Microsoft is doing to Windows 8. This is a great step towards Linux.

@darklighter009: Still about 1% if I remember correctly. I would bet about 85% of full time Linux users are excited about the prospect of AAA games running natively. There's a healthy community of Linux gamers though, Nexuiz comes to mind, I played a good amount of it in college.... now it's non-free and being built on Cry Engine 3.0

If you consider Android phones, tablets, and HTPCs the market gets to a pretty profitable size. I think that's where this might eventually be heading. I think about five years ago I read on Phoronix that Valve had a team on Linux support....so I guess they're finally making good on those rumors.

*Sees news photo*

DAMMIT PATRICK!

Reading the comments to this article have made me laugh so hard. All of the people not realizing what Linux is about, who Richard Stallman is, and what "free" can mean.

lolololololololololol

@Jams said:

@iAmJohn said:

@predator said:

I thought RMS was surprisingly lenient on this subject. I would have said we don't want Steam on GNU/Linux at all, but he makes a good point.

Why do you think all software should be free?

Because they're so blindingly selfish, that they'd rather everyone give them stuff for free than actually work for it, or even steal for it. They just sit there grotesque maw agape sucking in anything that's been made available to them for free. Feeding off of everyone else's hard labor. Whilst exhaling, they spit nonsensical complaints about things they cannot even fathom or presume to understand.

Free and open source software is about the spread of knowledge and information for all. It is the complete opposite of the retarded bullshit you just spewed.

My continual love and admiration for Valve knows no bounds. A company for gamers (especially those on a budget), no matter their OS creed ;). Just need this and big picture mode to fully come out and Valve can stick a big boot up MS and Sony arses.... i'd include Nintendo but seriously that company needs a f#cking shock paddle to the chest right now.

yay Linux!

Linux is the final frontier. All for gaming, and gaming for all!

@Tolkienfanatic said:

It's very strange to me that Valve is pursuing this, considering that most hardcore Linux users are running it on crappy little netbooks that won't be able to handle modern games. Everyone else has it partitioned and will continue playing on Windows *shrugs*

Steam is something of a leading distributor for indie games (most of which alrady have linux ports) though, and while not as many as GOG, there are plenty of DOS games running with platform independent DosBox too. We shouldn't expect the next Call of Duty to run natively on Linux (even though the Q3A engine runs perfectly fine), but stuff like Amnesia, DEFCON, Bastion and Legend of Grimrock already do.

@Maginnovision said:

@predator said:

As I said in the earlier forum thread, RMS explains the good and bad effects of Steam on GNU/Linux well.

Nonfree is a really weird term. Also the guy who wrote that seems a little paranoid. Steam coming to linux won't damage it, but actively telling people not to support this could. This makes me feel like the linux folks are getting to be like the apple folks.

The last part of the article, about how you shouldn't tell people about this, pisses me off to some degree.

@coribald said:

@Khann said:

@Jams said:

@iAmJohn said:

@predator said:

I thought RMS was surprisingly lenient on this subject. I would have said we don't want Steam on GNU/Linux at all, but he makes a good point.

Why do you think all software should be free?

Because they're so blindingly selfish, that they'd rather everyone give them stuff for free than actually work for it, or even steal for it. They just sit there grotesque maw agape sucking in anything that's been made available to them for free. Feeding off of everyone else's hard labor. Whilst exhaling, they spit nonsensical complaints about things they cannot even fathom or presume to understand.

Free and open source software is about the spread of knowledge and information for all. It is the complete opposite of the retarded bullshit you just spewed.

Oh. That's nice. So all the game developers and designers can go home to their free and open source houses, serve free and open source food to their families, and sleep in their free and open source bed.

Where does the money come from in this hippie commune of a world?

Something can be open-source and cost money.

I have no problem with this. I occaiontly experiment with Ubuntu, so woulden't mind having a few games to play :D

@Khann said:

@coribald said:

@Khann said:

@Jams said:

@iAmJohn said:

@predator said:

I thought RMS was surprisingly lenient on this subject. I would have said we don't want Steam on GNU/Linux at all, but he makes a good point.

Why do you think all software should be free?

Because they're so blindingly selfish, that they'd rather everyone give them stuff for free than actually work for it, or even steal for it. They just sit there grotesque maw agape sucking in anything that's been made available to them for free. Feeding off of everyone else's hard labor. Whilst exhaling, they spit nonsensical complaints about things they cannot even fathom or presume to understand.

Free and open source software is about the spread of knowledge and information for all. It is the complete opposite of the retarded bullshit you just spewed.

Oh. That's nice. So all the game developers and designers can go home to their free and open source houses, serve free and open source food to their families, and sleep in their free and open source bed.

Where does the money come from in this hippie commune of a world?

Something can be open-source and cost money.

Although to be fair, when has that ever worked for anything other than enterprise software where there are fewer eyes that care to look at the code? If it's consumer software and a lot of eyes can see it, the free version will always sprout up and be good enough.

In the case of games, it's sort of doesn't matter though, because you can always open source the engine and keep the other creative assets copyrighted, so developers can still be secure.

OSS and open-standards are about preventing things like vendor lock-in and monopolistic practices, which is sensible in a lot of cases.

@Pachydermic: yeah, I think he's a little off base. Sure open source is a great concept, don't get me wrong. I loved Ubuntu before Unity came along and now i am back with Fedora. The problem I have with him most of the times is he looks at things a bit too idealistically. The teams that work in the open source space are great, but he's talking about game developers who are companies with a drive to sell games on platforms other than linux. Games can't all be free, especially when the companies that make them aren't in the open source mind set. TF2 and Dota 2 will be free on linux just like they are free on Windows. That alone should shut him up in my opinion because that will be two major titles distributed through Steam, FOR FREE. I play Dota 2 everyday and wish I didn't have to boot into Windows to do so.

@coribald said:

@Khann said:

@Jams said:

@iAmJohn said:

@predator said:

I thought RMS was surprisingly lenient on this subject. I would have said we don't want Steam on GNU/Linux at all, but he makes a good point.

Why do you think all software should be free?

Because they're so blindingly selfish, that they'd rather everyone give them stuff for free than actually work for it, or even steal for it. They just sit there grotesque maw agape sucking in anything that's been made available to them for free. Feeding off of everyone else's hard labor. Whilst exhaling, they spit nonsensical complaints about things they cannot even fathom or presume to understand.

Free and open source software is about the spread of knowledge and information for all. It is the complete opposite of the retarded bullshit you just spewed.

Oh. That's nice. So all the game developers and designers can go home to their free and open source houses, serve free and open source food to their families, and sleep in their free and open source bed.

Where does the money come from in this hippie commune of a world?

The "Free Software" movement (that I disagree with very strongly. I believe in the sound usefulness of open source, but I don't believe granting people the privilege of using your copyrighted code is more ethical or grants more "freedom" than the alternatives) isn't about software that doesn't cost money, but software that can be modified and re-distributed by anyone. How you can make money off of a product when your neighbor can then repackage a slightly better version of your product is never quite made clear. :P

Many Linux companies get by selling corporate support contracts. I'm not sure how this benefits the average volunteer hacker, though.