You Must Agree to All of Xbox Live's New Terms of Service

@MangyForestCat: You, um... you don't really understand the British legal system, do you.

@mden2013: I understand that she doesn't have much power and is more symbolic. But that's not the fucking point. She's twice as useless now that she doesn't have any real fucking power so why keep that bitch and her brood around?

How about the bitch steps down since she's no fucking better than anybody else and the British people stop paying her to lay about doing fuck all? Oh wait that's too fucking rational so I'm the one who doesn't have a clue.

@NoelVeiga said:

@Buzzkill said:

@elko84 said:

@NoelVeiga said:

@Buzzkill said:

and this is why I don't support Microsoft or Sony.

Huh. You're in a very odd site for a man who does all his gaming on phones, macs and linux PCs. How do you manage? Lots of Wii games?

He's still playing his Sega Genesis!!

I do what any intelligent gamer would do. Mooch off my roommates consoles and stick to my PC.

God, I hate having to explain a joke, but would that PC have a Windows OS running in it by any chance?

lol the joke's on you. Needless to say, I do not support microsoft.. even if I also bum copies of windows from people who can get them from their work hassle and cost free. Microsoft set the industry back a decade by forcing every studio to include multiplayer. They deserve the lack of support, and PC gaming will always be where it's at.

So they are basically making so now matter what happens you can't sue them? How is this legal? That is BS.

@ValiantGoat said:

Some people get too worked up about this shit, granted it is a legitimate issue/concern.What people don't seem to get is that if your console explodes, burns your house down, and/or rapes your parent(s) you can still take legal action. Really these types of user agreements don't count for shit in court.

If you have a legitimate reason to take legal actions against these companys you are still in your right to do so. Largely these agreements are there to squash hokie class action suites that some shifty lawyer somewhere dreams up and somehow finds a bunch of people to hop on board.

If the legal system wasn't abused so badly with BS law suites we might never have gotten to this point. It sucks on principle, but in practise isn't the evil money making company conspiracy some people make it out to be.

Note: I really do enjoy these types of news posts, being informed is empowering. Some people just need to chill.

Yes, this is super reasonable. The company responsible for a service is never absolved of liability, no matter what you sign.

Is that sort of thing able to stand up in court? It's not like I'm signing a no compete contract when being employed by a company. Seems like this is bullshit.

Maybe the next console should be named Microsoft CAMBox (Come at me!)

Class action lawsuits only help lawyers get rich. When was the last time consumers got more than $50 each from a class action lawsuit? We still need to keep companies in line, but the current setup is unfortunate.

While this does suck I think most class action lawsuits are the devil. Because everyone I have been a part in or seen the people in the lawsuit get somewhere between a dime to a couple bucks to a free month of something. Then the lawyers get several million dollars to file the suit. Well guess who ends up paying for those suits the people that buy the service so in general I have learned to hate seeing most suits being filed. However I find it hard to believe this would stop a serious lawsuit from being filed because if it does it really seems like every company and agency would just start making you sign something like it before entering or using their product.

I really hope that someone does challenge this (and similar) in court. It just can't be left to that AT&T ruling to be the final word on the matter.

As far as I understand it this is exactly what class action suits are designed for - to provide a way of getting recompense for minor claims that would otherwise not have the momentum required if handed on an individual basis. It's the classic case of fighting the larger foe with raw numbers. I'd also argue that they are of particular importance in the entertainment industries because most claims consumers are likely to bring are just that - mostly of minor import financially but inevitably effecting a large number of people all at the same time.

People have a tendency to roll over when it comes to issues like this, particularly when not connected to 'life or death' activities. That is until the next time the NextGenXBox red rings or the PS4 gets hacked and all your details get stolen and it becomes _very_ important. At that point fighting a behemoth like MS or Sony on a one-to-one basis won't look quite so favourable, and class action suits not that bad an idea after all. Shame. By then it'll be too late.

Ya know, I think I'm okay never using Xbox Live ever again. Especially since I can get a better experience for free on my PC. Steam, rock on....

class action lawsuits = stupidity, punish them by stop using their product and go to a competitor or pc. That's the best punishment you can do, but as we know, gamer's can't really do that, to weak, to forgiving. A class action lawsuits do's nothing but take away a little money. if there is something you disagree with, don't buy the next product, don't buy games from them, and they lose a lot more money then any class action lawsuits can do to them.

So just agree to it, and punish them the right way, class action lawsuits never have anything good going for em anyways.

Will they be required to refund my 4 years of Xbox Live Gold cards at market prices? Because I got them for under $30 on sale, so $120 paycheck might be worth it.

It's crappy they don't give you the option, then again I was sent a legit notice of a CAL that I could actually benefit from and still chose to ignore it, because in the end the hassle just isn't worth it.

fuck em, im converting to PC gaming.

I am definitely not going to resubscribe to Xbox Live now! I know barely anyone will take this kind of measure, but I'm not going to buy into this if there is no way for all Xbox users to come together if MS fucked something up BIG time.

I already sent in my letter, so it'll be interesting to see what response I get, if any.

I really want to move to Canada.

Eh, file a suit in a foreign country and reap profit.

I'm not in the suing game, America is sue-crazy, it's no small wonder that the corps are doing what they can to prevent certain lawsuits. Some of them have obvious merit, but the vast majority that waste the court, the company and the user's time and money are really dumb lawsuits.

How is this legal? To take someones rights...its un-American.

So as consumers and people what do we do? How do we combat this? I guess the better question is where is "That Guy" the one that gives us our alternative?

@Ravenlock said:

I already sent in my letter, so it'll be interesting to see what response I get, if any.

Me too.

Remember guys, Microsoft is legally a person, and all of this criticism is just going to hurt her self-esteem.
 
...Ugly bitch, though.

@Dark_Lord_Spam said:

Remember guys, Microsoft is legally a person, and all of this criticism is just going to hurt her self-esteem. ...Ugly bitch, though.

True, lets go on Microsoft's forums and her she's a slut.

Looks like I'll be cancelling my subscription.

@avidwriter said:

So they are basically making so now matter what happens you can't sue them? How is this legal? That is BS.

Except that's not what it means at all.

I know that the majority in the world continue to use Xbox Live and don't worry about it (even more than the ones who are privy to this information), but it's refreshing to hear so many of my friends jumping ship to PC, or at least PS3.

This isn't about console wars or exclusive games, it's about companies treating their customers like shit.

I doubt this is going to affect me ever.

@MikkaQ said:

Eh, file a suit in a foreign country and reap profit.

I'm not in the suing game, America is sue-crazy, it's no small wonder that the corps are doing what they can to prevent certain lawsuits. Some of them have obvious merit, but the vast majority that waste the court, the company and the user's time and money are really dumb lawsuits.

hehe do have the rep of a sue-happy nation...:)

Anyways Class Action Lawsuits only make lawyers have to decide what colour they want there new Lamborghinis in where everyone else waits for their $20 dont see what people are jumping through hoops about. Can still sue them if your xbox knifes one of your kids,

Huh, I kind of don't know what to think of this

@c0l0nelp0c0rn1 said:

Ya know, I think I'm okay never using Xbox Live ever again. Especially since I can get a better experience for free on my PC. Steam, rock on....

I completely agree with you Patrick, I think most people will take the changes without complaint.

Afterall most credit card agreements adopted these practices a long time ago. So I think it sadly will go down with shrugs from 95% of Live users. I must admit I'm kind of surprised they didn't already have it.

I hate Class Action suits as much as the next guy, but I think the arbitration system is even worse for freedom in America in general. Every American has the right to a fair trial and the arbitration system should be declared unconstitutional.

I appreciate the use of Phoenix Wright. With the amount of money I've invested in Rock Band DLC alone there's no way I'll stop using Xbox Live. Very nasty move by Microsoft, though.

@Dany said:

I doubt this is going to affect me ever.

If your Xbox 360 ever Red-ringed, I would assume that would fall under this clause.

I remember calling Microsoft up in the early summer of 2005 and telling them of my situation (launch until...maybe 50-75 hours put on it total since launch... red-ring). They told me that they knew nothing of the problem and it would cost me $150 for them to even look at it. I said no because I had been hearing reports all over that the 360's had been breaking ever since people started playing Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion and were putting 100+ hours on their consoles after that which was causing them to red-ring just due to use... so I waited until someone sued MS to get a free repair.

I am now on my 4th or 5th xbox 360 this generation, and I play the darn thing maybe 2-3 hours each week... it is not like I am using it to any excessive amount.

@MikkaQ said:

Eh, file a suit in a foreign country and reap profit.

I'm not in the suing game, America is sue-crazy, it's no small wonder that the corps are doing what they can to prevent certain lawsuits. Some of them have obvious merit, but the vast majority that waste the court, the company and the user's time and money are really dumb lawsuits.

Ever heard of the red-ring of death, or say Xbox Live being down for a good month in 2007? I feel like that is a reason to sue them over, especially when they do nothing about it on their own good will. Get hacked because of microsofts servers or payment sequence/design might be flawed... well now there is nothing you can do about it... or at least what they say.

Patrick, please keep investigating... maybe ask them what would have happened if this would have been in effect before the red-ring of death outcries started to come out of the wood work? You can bet Bill Gates and all his money that they would have done nothing about it.

Distant laughter in the air. Foreign. European judges reading these ToS.

Guys, just accept and move on with your lives. I really don't understand why you Americans get upset over anything. I'm sorry I missed the point of this, it's just about the games! Unless there was some weird 'human centiPad' thing In there, I see no reason to worry.

Go be a real man and connect your PC to your TV.

Phoenix Wright makes everything better... including Giant Bomb News. Thank you Patrick :'D

Sometimes I'm really glad to live in the EU. At least I know my government is going after EA for their Origin Terms of Service and that any EULA/TOS I have to agree after buying the console is worthless (unless I knew about everything prior to paying the money).

Xbox Live may be a different thing but as soon as I need to upgrade to the new Dashboard in order to play Xbox 360 games, I know whatever I agree to is worthless. :)

@Th3_James said:

@c0l0nelp0c0rn1 said:

Ya know, I think I'm okay never using Xbox Live ever again. Especially since I can get a better experience for free on my PC. Steam, rock on....

A whole lot of wannabe lawyers up in here.

I don't really care to be perfectly honest.

Won't change a thing. If people have enough will-power then they would easily stop playing Xbox if things go wrong. I can do it easy peasy. We can break Microsoft if they decide to shaft us remember.

@LemonJoose: Well they need to specify these things so they can legally dish out the worst possible disciplinary action on a forum... Permaban. If they didn't have this in their contract, customers that are paying money for this service could sue when they get permabaned.

Also, the items pertaining to owning and removing content is important because this site is a wiki.

Microsoft however has no excuse to use the information we are agreeing to except to sell it to 3rd parties. Even thought they're the most powerful software cooporation, they are slowly turning into a shady spyware company.

Class action suits are designed to enrich lawyers, not the consumer. In the event of a class action suit, we'd get a couple bucks, and the lawyers would get millions. So I applaud Microsoft on this one. Class action suits are an abuse of the legal system 99% of the time.

So yeah, I talked to one of my Professors about this (who is a lawyer) and she said it is not that big of a deal. Just because you sign your name on something or agree to something doesnt mean it is forever binding or set in stone and in cases like this, agreeing to these terms of service doesn't technically take any rights away from you because they can be easily argued away by any lawyer.

@drakesfortune: An individual or group can always opt to have arbitration instead of a class action but to try and take away the right to use a class action or threaten it is an horrible act of a company trying to SCREW it's consumers.

@Mystic_11 said:

Can still sue them if your xbox knifes one of your kids,

Pheww, that's a relif. That just happened to me the other day.

@c0l0nelp0c0rn1 said:

Ya know, I think I'm okay never using Xbox Live ever again. Especially since I can get a better experience for free on my PC. Steam, rock on....

I came to the same conclusion months ago. There's nothing on XBL that I can't get somewhere else. And the somewhere else is usually better than the offering on XBL.

@WickedCobra03 said:

You can bet Bill Gates and all his money that they would have done nothing about it.

Bill Gates has absolutely nothing to do with Microsoft anymore. That's like thinking George Washington is still president of the US.

Whatev's