Oh, right. I created this thread mainly to demonstrate the unique contrast between review scores themselves and not the actual criticisms or praises in the reviews. I haven't actually read any myself and I won't until I finish the game.

Interestingly, all of my "Oh my gosh I give this game a 10 because I love it!" games score about 7.5-8.5 in reviews.

That being said, I hate David Cage's whole perspective on gaming and I think the games industry is worse for him being in it.

I think the same about Nintendo but they have a right to exist just like Cage does.

I think Alex's review summed it up when he said that it is a David Cage game. That's really all you need to know beyond how is the acting and how are the animations. The answer to both of those questions seems to be that they are great. So if you like David Cage's brand of heavy handed story telling and lack of compelling gameplay then this is a game for you. In the end, there are moments in every David Cage game that are really incredible and then there are a ton of moments that really aren't. A lot of the time, though, the moments that aren't are ruined because of poor animation/acting so knowing they nailed both of those things this time I would assume this is really the best expression of a David Cage game yet. The question you have to ask yourself is do you dislike his style in general, or do you just feel like it hadn't been fully realized up to this point? If it's the former then you won't like it. If it's the latter then you will.

So you're saying that the games industry is worse for David Cage simply working in it? I'm sorry but what the fuck does that even mean? I'd understand your point if suddenly all games currently in development were story driven mo-capped interactive movies but they're not. This year we've had sequels from yearly sports titles, shooters such as CoD and BF, another AC and a whole bunch of sequels coming to the next gen systems. Oh yeah, David Cage is really the problem with the games industry not the likes of Activision and EA who milk a franchise until the teat is dry. Nope, this one fucking guy.

Because it matches my keen sense of taste.

I think Alex explained this best, and it seems like an understandable disparity amongst different players.

You are quite correct, HOW DARE David Cage try and put an artistic, story first setting to games.

Why do people hate this guy and his games? I have enjoyed both IP and HR, why does everyone need to be a gigantic plot critic these days? I went to Pacific Rim to see giant robots beating the shit out of giant monsters, I got what I wanted. I will play this to see some psychic like powers and expect some type of twist at the end.

How the hell do people even watch movies now days? Unless you cover up every single plot hole with titanium people complain about it and even if you DO cover every hole, they complain about something else. Everyone is just trying to be a damn TV critic on forums, its gotten to the point where people just miss the whole point of a movie.

::EDIT:: Yes I did turn this into a movie rant but this game is more of an interactive movie that anything else, nothing wrong with that.

The low scores are from the critics who didn't get payed.

Played Indigo Prophecy, thought it was pretty good. But if I want to watch a movie, I'll go watch a movie. Don't want to play an interactive one (Walking Dead being the exception).

Still, in this industry where the focus is on the $ which means constant regurgitation of modern military shooters, zombie games and MMORPGs, is it really a bad thing we see attempts at telling a great story with interesting characters? Even if the attempt fails? I think not.

No matter what the critics say about this game, I think it will do just fine! There is a lot of interest surrounding the game that will get people to play this game.

EA and Activision are a problem with the game industry in the corporate sense. David Cage issues lie purely on the creative side. He aspires to help shepherd video games into becoming a grand storytelling medium, but he is terrible at the actual storytelling part. Indigo Prophecy falls headlong into insane Mayan alien Matrix nonsense. Heavy Rain has gaping plotholes that are impossible to ignore (and some that exist because of a cut subplot that would have only included Indigo Prophecy-like psychic connection nonsense). Beyond is, if reviews are accurate, much the same. High production values and bombast used to mask the fact that the writing is poor. And not in the "Michael Bay-turn-your-brain-off-because-this-is-intentionally-stupid" manner of a dumb summer blockbuster, but the sort of high school-level creative writing that aspires for a higher level with deeper meaning and comes off as hackneyed.

Don't get me wrong, because I do think that what Cage aspires for is admirable. He has a vision and he wants to see it through. But he's blind to his weaknesses as a writer and has yet to truly address them. It's like handing a Creative Writing 101 student millions of dollars to turn his nonsensical, self-indulgent short-story into a narrative-driven video game.

@thedudeofgaming: yes dude, that's totally how it works

I really liked Heavy Rain. I'll probably play this game.

This seems like a game I wanna rent. Too bad it's impossible to rent games anymore where I am. :|

Also, I have to say, it may seem really dumb, but I really hate the fact that " ELLEN PAGE " and " WILLEM DAFOE " are plastered on the box art.

If the story and characters end up poorly written or fall flat, then the flaws should be called out. Fawning over Cage's work as some sort of creative video game genius won't do anything to encourage him to improve.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion but why is the gaming industry worse off by having Cage or anyone else for that matter in it? in the end its all down to the sales figures and noone is forcing you to buy it.

From the bombing cast it didn't seem like Alex fell into the middle, but i am not surprised, as with most if not all Cage games, it splits people into two groups, either you hate the game or you love it, there are no middle ground.

Except for when you're in the middle ground. ;)

I'll only play this if the average score is above 7.300. I hear it's more like a 7.298. I'm out.

One of those games where I just need to try it myself. Too many opinions!

I've yet to even play this game (not out until Friday here) so I have no opinion on the quality of the writing but for Jazgalaxy to single out and label David Cage as the problem with the game industry is just plain wrong.

i guess i'd like to say this is garbage based on weak gameplay mechanics alone but i'd be a hypocrite considering i loved The Walking Dead. still even story-wise that game blew Heavy Rain out of the water (lol). it would help if Quantic Dream's stories were at least as compelling, i would be able to more easily overlook the paper-thin gameplay.

I really like it so far

If David Cage could take his storytelling and put it into a game that didn't involve an endless dumping ground of QTE's and shitty gameplay mechanics, I might start to care about his games...

until then, I'll watch an LP, because while the story seems interesting [based on a half-hour vertical slice i saw a few months back] don't feel like playing it, you know?

Yeah, I'm glad I've fallen on the spectrum of people who really enjoy this game. It was okay for me until I hit the chapter "Homeless" and now it's great.

I thought that the Homeless chapter was the best one. Its not a great game, but some moments make it worth experiencing.

That's what I want to hear. I'll check it out whenever I get the chance.

This is exactly the reception I was hoping for. If it was loved across the board it wouldn't be a David Cage game. I can't wait to find out how I feel about it.

I'm convinced that the emotion Cage is shooting for is ambivalence.

I had a chance to read two of the reviews posted yesterday, but first I wanted to actually link to the topic I had mentioned earlier. It was in this topic here that I had seen much of the community express disappointment with Heavy Rain http://www.giantbomb.com/heavy-rain/3030-21304/forums/apparently-microsoft-rejected-this-game-1451620/#52 ... Probably good to have here since I mentioned it and helps put our perspective of Cage in a bit of context.

The first review I read was the one posted by Video Gamer , I honestly felt like I knew nothing about the game or where such a low score was merited after reading it, the review was shorter than most metacritic user reviews. It seemed to be proceeding with the concept that most people reading it may have had familiarity with the demo of the game, but I was disappointed that it didn't provide more context.

Next, I had read the Destructoid review , I'll admit that I am a fan of Jim Sterling for the most part, some of his recent rants on sexism and women in gaming are running a bit thin for me. As the topics surrounding that issue has grown a bit repetitive around here also. But, concerning the review I felt it gave me a much clearer picture of some of the gameplay problems surrounding this game, I had to re-read certain parts of his review, particularly when he had stated that many of the key points in the game can proceed without any type of player interaction and only having small impact to the proceeding story. I look forward to seeing what the rest of the community thinks after having some quality time with the game and if they end up agreeing or challenging these various reviews.

Because what David Cage is promoting and calling it "videogames" aren't games at all. He is trying to make movies and his route to doing so is by putting them out on videogame consoles.

The reason he earns my ire is the same reason anyone hates anything in the games space. It's the same reason there are "console wars" and there are "fanboys". It's because resources are limited. There can only be so many video games. Sony will only develop and publish so many games. And David Cage getting however many million dollars to produce his non-game means that somebody, somewhere didn't get to make their vision that could have been much, much, much better (of course, in my opinion). It's even more egregious in the case of Cage, because the resources he's taking up, he's using to, in a sense, wage war against videogames. I absolutely feel that the momentum he gains with his terrible non-games inspires games like Tomb Raider to be LESS games and more "interactive movies" with little to no actual interaction.

I mean, you are absolutely right. The sales will tell the story, but I'm really tired of people heralding him as some kind of genius for saying "you know what has always sold games? graphics. So why don't we start making games that are ALL GRAPHICS!" It's like calling processed food magnates a bunch of geniuses because they figured out that they can sell "Lunchables" to kids if they package in nothing but sugar, salt and carbohydrates.

That's exactly what I'll do. I imagine that many people will. And eventually word will get back to Sony that, hey, people are only going to pay for videogames they want PLAY.

"Rap isn't music."

In a way it's not.

I mean, I'm sick of people constantly trying to do things like argue "videogames are art! They're art because anything can be art! So if I say it's art, then it's art!"

Well, okay, but that's a completely circular argument. You're saying that a subject fits into a category, and then saying that anything can fit into that category, which then renders the entire category meaningless.

Products like Cage's "games" do nothing but dilute the category of video games. It makes something that should be very specific, so broad that it loses all meaning.

It's not even an adventure game. Don't insult the good old genre of my youth. It's an interactive movie, an updated version of Dragon's Lair, if you will.

The problem with that label is that Gage's games aren't even that interactive. Interactivity is a give and take. It tends to function two ways. You give the game input and it gives you output in return, which is the case with most strategy games. or the game gives you input you and you output a response. THis is the case in games like platformers or baseball games where the computer pitches you a ball and you try to hit it. Modern "interactive movie" games, where there is one predetermined course and they allow you to press up on the controller while the game goes forward aren't interactive at all. Calling it an interactive movie would require calling those old cameras where you had to crank the handle to make it progress "interactive movies".

From what I played of Beyond... you're actually not that far off (despite the obvious exaggeration), but I'm gonna guess you never played Heavy Rain or Fahrenheit.

Also, why do you think categorizing everything is so important? If you don't think Quantic Dream makes video games, that's fine, but that doesn't change the fact that some people like what they do, and a lot of people loved a little game called The Walking Dead, which is exactly the same thing (a game completely devoid of any sort of challenge in which dialogue options and story choices are the only interactions). What does it matter if The Walking Dead or Beyond are a video games or not? We could call them ludo-narrative-interactive-drama-series or something dumb like that, but what purpose would that serve?

Fuck 'em all and let the gamers sort it out.

easily game of the year for me. i love games like this. such a breath of fresh air after the constant FPS type of games. just shoot em up. this is how its done. graphics off the charts. emotion and story is off the charts. game play is simply breathtaking, and there is just no way you can not like this game. but, if you didnt like heavy rain and expect a FPS/ adventure game dont even play it. it is like an interactive movie. anyone that would score this under 9.5 is a moron in my book. we NEED more games like this. also this is not a linear story. in almost every action and cut scene you have many different options on what you say and how you act. each drastically effecting the game. some parts if you get 'caught' you dont die, you have a whole new scene to work with. and there is many endings.... i just have to laugh at some reviewers. its like they just go with the flow. typical mob mentality. TY for this game! keep it up, pls!

@klei said:

I knew the combat sequences reminded me of something; if they'd had a flashing light it would have been complete.

This is what I have enjoyed most about the game so far. I love that there is never an absolute FAIL or YOU LOSE or RETRY? screen.

I'm not done with the game, but so far, I think it would be better if it was more linear. After the 2nd or 3rd time the game jumps back to being a little girl, I feel like I already know pretty much what's going to happen, and I mostly can't wait for it to actually go ahead and trigger whatever the cutscene is, so I can move on. Not only does it make large portions of the game feel like an abilitease, which is ok once, but gets old very fast after that...but it's horribly jarring to the overall story.

I expect I'll finish it, since the story and characters are interesting so far, I'm just really hoping it doesn't re-use that jump back to early childhood too many more times.

Oh no a 7,3. WORST GAME EVER. Really now, it might not be the best game of the year but it is also not the worst. I'll probably enjoy it as much as Heavy Rain which is quite a bit.

I am not sure what you are trying to say but one thing you sure have misunderstood is Cage games, there are plenty of interactive elements in all his games, they might be railgames, but they are still games.

Are we getting a quick look of this game/not-game (depending on your religion)? Haven't seen it in the upcoming list.

as far as the game jumping around a lot she explains in the first scene that her power messes with her mind and memory and she is just trying to pick up the pieces. she explains it later 2. this story took cage about 1year and is about 1,000 pages long. as far as video game stories go i think its epic.

SLIGHT SPOILER ahead beware. it has elements from a lot of the great stories in there. there is some from Carey by stephen king, (the party) some from m.night shalaman (peers calling her a witch, parents terrified of her powers, she sees dead poeple 6th sense) poltergiest from spielberg, with the whole navajo scene, things like being the homeless hero or sorts reminds me of spawn the comic classic. and tons of other content that is just packed in there. this is a game that needs to be played from start to finish and enjoyed for what it is. even the action game play is great. no arrows or HUD hints you just have to follow her body language with a very well thought out training section. i dont think we will see the likes of this type again for another 5 years or so. enjoy.

It serves the purpose of making firm divisions and not wasting people's time.

When I was in college, there was a local dancing place in town. It was a small town and this was the closest thing to a "club" that existed. There were two different crowds who showed up, the country people (I live in texas) and the hip hop people. Since it was the only place in town for dancing, they would basically solve the problem by playing one country song and then playing one hip hop song. The club was literally segregated in half, and half the people would get up and dance to their song and then go sit down. Then the other half of the people would get up and dance to their song and go sit down. Nobody liked it.

That's what's happening to me and people like me. The difference between videogames and "interactive entertainment" is the difference between golf and miniature golf. Sure they have some of the same trappings, but they're completely different things and for completely different audiences. There may be some overlap, but for the most part, golfers don't want to watch miniature golf on the golf channel or read about miniature golf in their golfing magazines.

I liken the disturbing shift away from gameplay into "interactive entertainment" quicktime events to the days when MTV was suddenly showing videos for 2 hours a day and reality shows for the rest.

But that's not what's happening in the games industry. With games like Uncharted, Tomb Raider, and things like Beyond, we're seeing more and more of the reality shows taking over MTV.

"Pushing the industry forward" is why MTV doesn't have music anymore.

"Pushing the industry forward" is why TechTV became G4.

"Pushing the industry forward" is why Cartoon Network won't have cartoons in a few years.

LOL uncharted and tomb raider? you mean the games where you have to take on droves and droves of bad guys with guns and um its a cover based shooter? not sure what your talking about man, i dont think you even do. this game has NOTHING in common with those 2 games. MTV? G4? Cartoon Network? man i remember back in the day when new cinematic driven story games started popping up like FF7 the dream was for an interactive movie type game. You get the great graphics of the cut scenes yet its the entire game, and you get the freedom of choice and game play. anyways fair to say it appeals to a certain demographic, its not the end of the constant drove of rehashes and mindless FPS KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL have no worries my good chap. with people like you cool games like this are still a rare treat for a true gamer.

@lusence: Just because something is different doesn't mean its good or that you should just overlook its faults. I like the game but like Alex I fall in the middle here. There is a lot to like but the script itself has a ton of very un-earned moments and general hamfisted storytelling.

You can't just throw me into a scene where I have no context to care about the characters yet and expect me to give any shits when something bad happens to them. Silly silly shit like giving you inexplicable Romance options with every single guy Jodi comes across is just fucking goofy. And so many of the other emotional haymakers he throws at you are entirely cliche a.k.a The end of Salim's arc on "the mission. The main thing that saves this for me is the pretty great acting and presentation.

lol okay man you win. i think its a good game, period. and hey it different, even better. blah blah blah.