That does sound like a website I would like to frequent, do you have actual examples? (five, at least?)

The... side of people making rape and death threats to women for daring to create something in the industry of their choosing?

@branthog: How the hell is this article calling you a piece of shit? It's saying that harassment is fucking awful, and I do not see how anyone can disagree with that. GB has taken a "fuck harassment" stance a number of times, see Jeff's Letter From the Editor a few months back as another example of that. But oh well, if you don't want to continue supporting GB because they wrote an editorial condemning harassment then so be it I guess.

Except,

https://storify.com/MorganRamsay/how-often-do-video-game-journalists-write-about-fe

Less than 1% of articles are about these things. You're just perceiving there's a lot of it.

As are the gamergate babies.

Here's the problem with this mentality:

Yes, there are extremists in every group, but it is the responsibility of said group to weed those people out and distance themselves from the assholes. They can't just stick their fingers in their ears and pay lip service while screaming, "Those bad people don't represent us! Stop lumping us together! Lalalalalala!" They have to actually do something about it.

In this instance, GamerGaters lean on the former instead of the latter. Not only that, they start to hurl minor insults to the victims of these offenses by calling them "professional victims" etc. while also purporting that they faked the whole thing (re: Sarkeesian, the last person driven from her home). That doesn't help. In fact, that makes things worse.

Right now, GamerGate is binary. On one side, you have a small, but vocal and effective minority of monsters using it FROM THE BEGINNING to harass people. On the other, you have an awful lot of other people who just look the other way or stick their heads in the sand and go back to their fits and tantrums. I have yet to see anything respectful or intelligent come out of GamerGate. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough, but I try to read the hashtag every once and awhile as well as check out pro-GG articles. However, the only two things I see with any sort of consistency is immature stupidity and a depressing lack of empathy. They are not all be misogynists and sexists for sure, but there are an awful lot of all around assholes who just let bad things happen in their groups name and wonder why everyone keeps picking on them.

I wish Giant Bomb didn't delete posts and instead had them greyed out with a notice under the user's avatar saying "this user has been banned for this post", as it is on The Escapist. It's a good way to educate people on what to post and what not to post.

You should not tell people this info when you are being threatend like that. Let the police take that asshole down, if anything he/she is scared now of the attension and it is harder to find this person. Also there are more people getting serious threats in this, some guy even got mailed a syringe with liquid to his house. That's messed up.

You are so wrong it hurts. Do you really think the majority of people are for or against gamergate? I see the validity and the extremism in both sides of the discussion, and so does most everyone else.

Covering both sides do not result in clicks, acknowledgement of peers, or support of the readers.

Welcome to the state of world-wide journalism. No criticism allowed. Listen and believe. Our story is the right story. Our side is the morally superior side.

The internet has brought many people together, it has also polarized many people away from each other.

@kindgineer: I don't think you can hurt them that much, we are but a small part of their user-base.

@ockman: Twitter can also be kind of awesome. I've had some really cool exchanges with various people that I never would have been able to interact with otherwise because of Twitter.

That said, goddamn does Twitter need to get its shit together when it comes to moderating and eliminating harassment.

Validity of the extremism? There is only one side.

Show me the websites organising the anti-gg movement, much like the numerous pro-gg ones.

There isn't any.

@heftymadmonkey: Your opinion is fine, skip it, that doesn't mean that those of us who ACTIVELY ENJOY this content should be denied it just because you don't care for it. By this same logic Brad shouldn't be allowed to do Daily DOTA, Drew should cancel Alt+f1, and Jeff should stop the Powerbombcast because I don't want to have to see that stuff when I'm looking for my hard-hitting Partick articles.

This is where it all collides. There is clearly a BIG difference in opinion. As you say, you get shouted down for "SJW talk". THIS is a very clear point in Gamergates rhetoric. Even if you read that list of things they back up and stand against you can read "No agenda driven journalism". THAT is SJW talk for them. This is a clear liberal vs conservatism discussion and that not an easy thing. Some of us think that social issues, diversity and deeper meaning to our games is the future and we want games that make us think or feel different things. Others want to keep things as they were. Some of us also want everyone to be included. The problem is that feminism is SJW talk too, something that falls under agenda driven journalism to these people.

It's so clear that this is what the bigger part are shouting about. very little is about ethics except for they people say so. They don't interfere in your conversations about ethics but rather social issues. I'm honestly "scared" to even write the word on Twitter because I don't even have to write the hashtag, some people are so notorious that they make word searches, find the word and then harass you or disrupt a "private" conversation with there BS. Everything boils down to SJW talk and our view of a video game community/world in change. Some fear change and others want it. That's the crux of the problem. It's not an easy problem at all. Ethics is NOT what's been pissing people of the last 2-3 years.

Also...you can read my first post on page 2. Thanks for writing the right thing to "trigger me" :)

I said validity AND extremism. As in, both sides raise good points, and both sides have been doxxing and sending death threats.

regardless of whether gamergate is affiliated with these attacks, i find it crazy that people will continue to support it given how tarnished that whole shit is now, seriously. i still don't even understand what this gamergate stuff is even about, i guess corruption in the gaming industry? but so much of the messaging coming out of it is so fucking random or excessive and unclear, i mean at a certain point if you think a site is corrupt just stop visiting it... no need to start some friggin online movement about something you probably couldn't prove anyway...

We don't intend to have moderation become a referendum. I speak more about that in the comments here.

They talk about it all the time on Twitter and Tumblr. And Jeff wrote an Editorial on it a few months ago?

In what world do you think they don't give a shit? I'm sure they'd be insulted by your implication.

@ejc93: How would they exactly 'own up' to the negativity that ended up giving them a common space to discuss the worries they had on games journalism?

And you don't need a leader when you have the twitter tag. People posted on it asking for people to help report the death threats, people signal boosted it as it's common on the internet.

It is made of pockets of popularity like any other space that congregates enough different people on the internet, but to generalize it as a single hate group focused on harassment while people that want to talk about are getting waved off with a "you're all that is wrong with everything around here, blocked" doesn't achieve anything.

@freedo: I think your point is well-made, but I also think that this is a responsibility that is tough to complete.

We're talking about labels here, really. People can choose whatever labels they'd like to identify themselves with (maybe except for a couple of the ones we're born with, but even many of those can be changed). Short of physically beating someone until they agree to take off whatever label they've chosen that I think they sully, there's not much I can do in that regard.

What groups do have a responsibility to do is to speak out against what they see as a poor representation of their group and to give support to those whom have been harmed by the fringe nutcases out there. Beyond that, there's nothing I can do to stop people from associating themselves with me. I am: male, black, gamer, Christian, heterosexual, educator, Seattle-ite, etc. Not much I can do to stop people from taking any or all of those same labels as me; all I can do is to decry the bad behavior of people who claim to represent those labels, which I do my best to do.

Yup that sounds like the internet. such a lush and hostile place. Why cant we just all be friends ?

What good points does gamergate bring up? "Social justice is bad!" "Feminism is eeeevil!" "Only women who agree with us are welcome!" "Special snowflake genders, go back to tumblr!"

Those types of points?

I really don't know what the GG side is other than bumper sticker level statements about "social justice warriors" and something about not being an Nvidia Shield Tablet or something. Also something about sex. If you could find a spokesperson who doesn't make this about an individual woman, doesn't couch themselves in fascist rhetoric, or doesn't talk about journalistic integrity while also displaying an eighth grade understanding of what journalism and ethics are, maybe somebody will actually listen.

@torabi said:

I get that, but man... The more sensible you are the more you should realize how irredeemably tarnished the GG brand is. If you really want to champion freedom of creative expression there are way better ways then sticking with that name. Not your fault, I know, but it's real nonetheless.

But to your point, who's getting their game blacklisted and branded evil? I feel like I'm pretty deep into games, with my ear to the ground, but I've yet to been invited to blacklists. I mean, unless you count Modern Warfare 2, Mass Effect 3, Diablo 3, or EA in general. I'm sure that's not what you're talking about though.

Could you share some information about what types of games are being forced out of the industry, and what has led you to believe this?

I have some pretty strong opinions about the topic of sexism in video games, but that's not really relevant here.

The way that people respond to SJW and feminists and whatnot is gross no matter how you slice it and it kind of pisses me off that I agree with their beliefs on some level. To get so mad over the issue that you're threatening a person's life and well being is just crazy. It's insane. You are not a normal human being if that is your response.

what's the other side? what should there be to cover? that's one way of saying "yeah this bashing of women online is shitty but i also kinda like my games manly and for me". (don't take it personally.just: there is no other side to this bullshit.)

Yeah, lets blame a hash tag on twitter that anyone can use.

Good point, but it is their fault.

If they're truly sensible, they'd realise how horrible the GG "Brand" is and give it up.

That is a bad comparison. GG started out about misogyny and harassing women, and then the rest of the "movement" regarding vague ethics concerns sprung up around it to shroud the harassment. The hateful acts are at its origin and its core. Contrast that with what you're talking about with GiantBomb, which was founded on inclusiveness and ethics and occasionally has had people jump in later trying to stir shit up, who are quickly weeded out.

*Hugs*

You're the equivalent of the 4Chan users screaming at feminist journalists for being "white knight social justice warriors manginas", only you are on the other side. It's like I'm staring at a person punching a mirror.

The worst part is that you both think you are doing good and fair by shouting down anyone who doesn't see the issue in the exact shades of black and white as you. It's hopeless to try to argue with you so I'm not gonna bother. Have a good day.

Anonymity is a beautiful thing (I'm pro anonymity on the internet, but this is the dark side of that). Also, Twitter with its instant feedback, the ease of making troll accounts etc. is awful when it comes to shit like this.

It seems like the use of personal information is what really makes these horrible exchanges all the more dangerous. Honestly, I don't get how some people say that removing anonymity would stop or hinder online harassment. It would make it a billion times worse.

In the end I think we need to stop focusing on the offenders. Focus on the messages of the people who are being attacked. It seems like the more people draw attention to someone being harassed the more that person gets harassed.

A lot of discussion among gamers and press seems to amount to "look at all the bad things" instead of "how do we alleviate the stress caused by the bad things that come with equal opportunity platforms (everyone's voice can be heard) like Twitter?"

Not talking about it on the Bombcast doesn't mean anything. You're setting a random goal post to suit your argument. And considering this story is ABOUT threats being made, his Editorial is absolutely relevant.

How about the fact that Jeff INTENTIONALLY HIRED PATRICK? You act as if Patrick somehow just appeared on the site and nobody has any control over his work.

Does anyone else find it strange that some of these threats are almost word for word what Zoe and Anita had said to them, or what I've seen women on the Pro-GG side have had said to them? Also why is no one saying anything at all about the other side and the things happening to them? Is it just not a big deal because they aren't indie game devs? The point I'm trying to make is when it's only showing one side all of us, whether you claim to be a gamer or you are someone who just plays games, are being made to look like animals. I feel like you can see that in some of the responses here. It's not just GGers coming in and saying things, it's anti-GG as well and they seem to be the loudest and most hateful. This is making EVERYONE on all sides look terrible and as someone who purchases and plays video games I look like a monster because some assholes who I would never associate with have said horrible things to people. I can't see an end to this, because every time someone blames someone that didn't commit the act it's going to get worse. Start blaming the assholes doing the tweeting and threats, not a whole group. That goes both ways. The Pro-GG people have to quit blaming the "Social Justice Warriors" for the threats coming at them, and the Anti-GG people have to quit assuming that an account that has zero followers and was made 5 minutes before they tweet has anything to do with the GG side. There are really good people on both sides suffering and until everyone stops screaming like children no one can discuss what actually needs to be discussed and yes there are things that actually need discussed. I expected more from the GB community than to start screaming at each other and flinging shit. I'm really bummed about this comment section. I genuinely thought we would be able to have a real talk about the shit plaguing our gaming community and clearly no one actually wants to do that. That said I hope everyone involved is safe. There's no reason for any of this. None at all.

It bums me out that Brianna called out Giant Bomb because getting involved will only prolong this mob violence. No matter what you think of the ideals on either side when this many people start shouting it can only ever hurt people.

@sil3n7:

How about you start by being more specific than, "this liberal stuff," and, "this nonsense?"

Be aware that I'm going to assume that for you, those two phrases are synonymous and respond accordingly.

P.S. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I owe you footnotes - we're just some strangers on the internet, after all. Besides, I'm old enough to know that cranks like to demand proof, then make up excuses for ignoring it when they get it.

@sil3n7:

Sil3n7 speaks the truth, we only see Patrick with this stuff, if you guys like it so be it but I'm gonna avoid it. I'm coming to this site for fun gaming not a lecture in sociology.

Hi,

I log in to Giant Bomb infrequently, but I just wanted to say thank you for posting this news story.

Except that doesn't actually counter anything I've said. I even said it's correct to talk about some of the issues. But it's pretty nice to just dismiss the idea that there is bad writing that masquerades as positive, progressive writing.

And I did not suggest that. My post doesn't say that I wish users could vote to ban people. I'm not sure why you thought that; my post was pretty clear. :/

It never did. Please provide evidence that GG was "founded" as a misogynistic movement. Because I really haven't seen it that way. I saw Adam Baldwin create it. Granted I have... unkind things to say about his conservative beliefs. (He's kind of nuts). It took off from there.

I dunno. I'm sick of it. I'm sick of the media painting those supporting GG as "misogynist manbabies". I'm sick of a minority of GG supporters living up to those accusations and acting like human scum. TALK TO EACH OTHER. Stop labeling everyone as misogynist. Why is this moral superiority groupthink so prevalent that it prevents discussion? STOP. TALK. DISCUSS.

The reason this issue bothers me is the correlations between the so called "Social Justice Moralists" and Jack Thompson years ago. Didn't we laugh Jack Thompson all the way to his disbarment? What's changed? Was his fault not being a woman?

The similarities are there and alarming.

You're right. The GG name is gone for good. Better off leaving it.

Regarding the games bit, Kingdome Come Deliverance has been receiving a lot of flak for having a historically accurate game. In the dark ages, during this period in time women and men were sadly not viewed as equals, there's a reason for why it is called the dark ages. The game reflects this by not having female knights and whatnot because it is true to history. But still people are angry at them and telling them to change history for the sake of pleasing a crowd that will most likely not even play their game. There was another game developer talking to the Kingdome Come Deliverance developers on twitter mentioning a similar experience but sadly I do not remember the name. It is also worth mentioning that KC:D will have a story featuring a woman and how she apparently saves the male protagonist, but I guess that isn't good enough.

The whole risking to be blacklisted thing was a part of a ton of tweets from a month or so ago. It was already difficult to keep track of it while it was happening. So unfortunately I do not have any links. But who knows, maybe they were exaggerating a bit. But still, having to compromise what you want to do because of people who in the end, have no interest in what you are doing seems wrong.

@splodge: the timing wasn't great but we've actually been expecting this for a while. Mods to battle stations, etc

Ultimately the criticism was that silence was being interpreted as endorsement. People can decide for themselves if this was a response to that, but it clears things up nicely either way.

You've been doing a really bad job at avoiding it so far.

Because there are no two sides to this. A woman got harassed out of her house. How is there another side to this? Do you demand national news to report the "side" of criminals whenever a crime happens too?