So I have been checking out a lot of the feedback (backlash?) about the Diablo: Immortal. It's pretty clear that many people are pissed off about this (I am kind of interested in DI). Are people over reacting to the announcement? is the rage unjustified? does Blizzard owe them?

This is the line of thinking that those who are mad at Blizzard-Activision seem to be following.

People are complaining about Diablo Immortal, because they paid for Blizzcon and didn't get the announcement they wanted. It's like ordering "soup of the day" delivered, without finding out what the soup is. Then getting mad because they wanted pumpkin soup, but the soup of the day was pea and ham. They might not like it but it's still soup, and they got what they paid for.

They might have paid for previous Diablo titles, but that doesn't give them control over any future products the company puts out. Especially when talking about a company that supports it's players for many years after many other would. Diablo II kept getting patches until 2016, people didn't like the auction house in Diablo III, they took it out. Nobody has paid for any unannounced Diablo related properties. As far as future Diablo releases go Blizzard doesn't owe anyone anything.

Blizzard has specifically said there are multiple Diablo projects in the works, they're not gonna miss out on more core Diablo.

People are allowed to be angry about anything they want, heck one could be mad that the sky is blue, that doesn't mean their anger isn't misdirected. Those who paid for Blizzcon should be mad at themselves for buying something sight unseen, for their own speculation. They got what they paid for, it just turns out it wasn't what they wanted. As Kellen Beck over at Mashable put it:

Grow up... You are entitled to nothing. Game companies owe you nothing. You don't just get to have whatever you want and then throw a tantrum when your own personal dreams don't come true. Blizzard hasn't abandoned the core Diablo franchise just because it created a mobile game.

Boogie is the fucking worst, full stop.

Having said that, I agree with you. I'm mad about a lot of things regularly (especially today considering it's election day in America) but being a jerk about it online ESPECIALLY WHEN THE GAME YOU WANT IS GOING TO COME OUT is just a brain-breaking level of crappy entitlement to me.

There's just so very much room to be like.. Wow Blizzcon sure did suck this year! without deteriorating into a terrible goblin child.

I think this is a weird situation. On the one hand, I agree that the people claiming Blizzard owes them an announcement is completely unwarranted; sure, they kind of fumbled the Diablo Immortal reveal, and definitely over-hyped it by putting it at the end of the presentation, but that doesn't mean they owe anyone a Diablo 4 announcement. The people who paid for Blizzcon did so knowing that there may not be any reveal related to Diablo at all; the only promise there is that some things would be announced, and some things were (Warcraft 3 remaster, Wow Classic, etc.).

That said, I think it's counterproductive to tell these people to grow up. People are allowed to be disappointed, and a lot of people are definitely disappointed by the Diablo: Immortal reveal; the only problem is that some people go from "disappointment" to "entitlement." Condescending to these people isn't going to fix anything, it's just going to reignite their anger. Further, as much as Blizzard doesn't owe their players any specific announcements, they did allow and even foster that sense of entitlement in their players over the years. As discussed on the Bombcast, Blizzard has put a lot of work into treating their fans, hardcore fans in particular, as "family"; those fans are frequently catered to and, in a way, spoiled by Blizzard. It's kind of like having a kid, giving them whatever they want without hesitation for 16 years, then being surprised when they're angry that you didn't buy them a new Ferrari. Are they justified in acting this way? No. Is the parent blameless in this situation? Absolutely not.

In the end, I think both sides need to change; players demanding a Diablo 4 reveal do need to realize that they aren't part of the company, and aren't owed something that was never promised to them. At the same time, if Blizzard isn't prepared to deal with that sense of entitlement, they shouldn't be willing to encourage it.

I'll give this guy the benefit of the doubt and assume he's talking about games he actually did buy, and not Diablo Immortal... a game that no one has bought yet.

But yes, even in that case, unless we're talking about things like blatantly false advertising or game-breaking bugs, I don't think spending money on a game entitles you to very much. We've all bought bad games or paid to see a disappointing movie, and hey, we moved on. For the most part, a game's quality is subjective and comparing it to wanting food to be edible is ridiculous.

I think most people are angry because:

1. It was the last thing they showed, and it was pretty hyped up beforehand.
2. Mobile games are notorious for microtransactions.
3. They put the core story into it.
4. It looks like a complete reskin from the company they contracted to develop it.
5. It was the completely wrong audience to market a mobile game to, without at least a follow-up teaser or something.

I know I was totally burned by Diablo 3 in regards of the auction house - again with Blizzard trying to milk money from people, and now they're trying it again (I'm assuming). I mean, I know I'd be pissed. Especially with some gaming outlets trying to put down the customers? Are they serious?

There was always going to be this kind of backlash against a mobile Diablo game, especially when it's placed at the end of the presentation as the big announcement. What put gas on the fire was the tone-deaf phone comment the guy on stage made, and the deletion of the dislikes on their Youtube trailer. I think a lot of their fan base is scared that Blizzard is going to be going in the mobile direction under Activision, which I don't think is entirely misplaced. That being said, they can just not play the game when it's released and vote with their wallet.

@acharlie1377: While I definitely agree with you in a perfect world, this situation honestly just feels like people are being dicks for the sake of it and that is such familiar territory for "gamers".

This is a great point, I really hadn't thought of it like that

Buying anything based on unknown expectations is inherently risky. As adults, we take that risk and accept the consequences. Are the angry people going to buy Immortal, or wait for Diablo 4 and buy that like they were going to anyway? What does it change? Being confrontational and rude when a casual game in a series you like but aren't going to buy is announced instead of the big one, you've crossed over into yob-like territory. That's like throwing the bread sticks at the chef because he didn't tell you your pasta was coming. Maybe sit the fuck down and wait?

Still, the show was pretty bad. Disappointment and being a bit, "Well . . . fuck," is understandable. I lost my shit when Silent Hills was cancelled. Saltiness makes everyone look like a moron, though.

If anyone is entitled it activison/ blizzard who think they entitled to applause or a good reception for some free to play, microtrasaction filled tat.

@sethmode: Yeah, that's true; I also don't want to make it seem like the two sides are equally blameworthy. The fans' terrible behavior towards Blizzard is far less acceptable than Blizzard's behavior toward their fans.

The real question here is what on earth is this mystery soup shop that doesn't tell you what the soup of the day is before you order it?

@thegame983: Man, I hate to do this but seriously: username checks out.

I don't want to know these idiots who would be so easily appeased by a single logo screen drop. Not that I would want to identify with their frothing likes in the first place...

1. They shouldn't have hyped this or ended the panel on it.

2. If you're being incredibly hateful about this towards blizzards or developers not involved with the game then you should stop.

3. Not everything is for you but the other side of the coin is, "Blizzard, don't try to subtly tell people they're wrong for not being excited for a mobile game that looks like 1000 others".

4. Game industry people need to not answer legitimate trolls by being equal or worse trolls in kind. For instance, check out this totally legitimate hot take...

I also don't see anything wrong with 2 the guys who asked questions at the panel. People like Jason Schreier went after them pretty nastily on Twitter for their questions but just 6 months ago he had this to say...

The reality of it is this: Diablo 4 is clearly in production but too early to even have a CG trailer for, apparently. If Diablo Immortal was the best they could come to this, pitiful, show with...maybe they shouldn't have ended on Diablo at all. The stock prices dropping as quickly, and low, as they have shows its more than just a few "basement neck beards" who saw this announcement as negative. Overwatch slides along fine, the latest WoW expansion is heavily looked down upon, the next big WoW announcement is playing a version that's like 14 years old, the "new" Warcraft game is old, there's no Starcraft announcements, Hearthstone slides along, and Heroes of the Storm slides along...oh and they are still making waifus in Overwatch (which Kotaku is upset because of her skin color, apparently). This might just be a slump, transitional year for Blizzard with the amount of leadership shifting they are doing. I do think this is maybe the most dull time I've had watching the live streams with my wife, something we generally enjoy. Hopefully 2019 is a better year for Blizzard because in terms of quality 2018 has been a downturn.

Also, for anyone saying Diablo Immortal is "Blizzard making a mobile game"...they aren't...they are outsourcing the development to a Chinese company who already made a Diablo clone on mobile and the MTX inclusions are horrible. Hopefully that's not a taste of what D:I will have.

@sethmode I don't subscribe to Boogie's channel anymore but why is he "the worst"?

@sammo21: I mean, this is just my perspective but excusing the Nazi's was enough to qualify him as "the worst" and then this shit doesn't help. He has a very loud voice and it feels like (again, to me) he never uses it the way that he should.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm being hyperbolic and I understand that, there are worse people than Boogie. I just mean within the context of this thread on top of his other bad takes.

Blizzard literally said that they have multiple teams working on different Diablo projects. Paying for a ticket to a show entitles you to a show. If you don't like it, that's fine. You're free to criticize it. But the level of entitlement shown here is fucking embarrassing. People in their 20s and 30s acting like petulant children over a video game they don't have to play is embarrassing for the hobby as a whole.

On one side I feel Blizzard completely deserved everything they got. This is some straight up Activision shit they pulled. If they would have had something else besides a phone game it would have been much more understandable. On the other side some gamers take it way to far, Blizzard doesn't owe them anything. Purchasing past Diablo titles doesn't mean you get a say so in what games come next. It's pretty crazy to think that way.

@jaalmo: I see what you mean but I don't think anyone here is saying every gamer sucks, just that the vocal ones in this aspect do. And they do, with evidence. I don't think calling a spade a spade is a bad thing, especially within a hobby that seems to have trouble differentiating between what they are owed and what are just announcements.

@jaalmo: I dunno duder, just because people are always going to suck doesn't mean that they shouldn't be called out for it. And this is all made moot anyway considering all they're complaining about at this point is that a different game (that is coming out) wasn't announced. At some point, enough has to be enough for the rational folks, regardless of how consistent crappy gamers are. They might not stop, sure, but they DEFINITELY won't stop if they're allowed to keep doing it and (in some cases) they especially have to be told "no" if it means potentially pressuring for people to lose their jobs. Not saying that that has happened here (I honestly don't know) but the gulf between entitled gamers just being dicks and influencing real world people and jobs is clearly closer than you think (just look at something like Guild Wars 2).

@jaalmo: Fair enough, my friend. I just think with the history of this hobby, you give an inch, they take a lot, and I have a very low tolerance for people being dicks to others when no one has been hurt by it. Either way, I see where you're coming from so let's just agree to disagree.

@quirkwood: Entitled to what? It's this kind of ambiguity that is made to be misinterpreted. Throwing around the pejorative term "entitled" is just an excuse to be rude, it's an argumentative trap!

People entering a Blizzard convention are entitled to be able to leave when they want, they are entitled to be safe from physical harm. People actually have rights.

The guy asking, if it was an out of Season April Fools' Joke, didn't claim any right, he didn't demand to speak to a lawyer or talk to a superior.

He was right to ask the question, too. Because this embarrassing reveal sort of implies the following message from Blizzard:

Because of your great enthusiasm and thousands of hours you spent with our franchises and because of your trust and loyalty to our company as a whole, we at Blizzard are confident that you, our fans, will engage with anything we put in front of you.

or in short "You all got phones, right?"

IF you read it like that it is kind of presumptuous from Blizzard, don't you think? It shows a disregard for the fans and a willingness to take advantage of them to conquer a new market. Already the fans/fiends generated more notoriety and word of mouth, than any game on IOS/Android deserves.

The phone comment read to me as an attempt to lighten the tense mood in the room. Maybe it was misguided, but it was an off-the-cuff moment, and I don't think there was any winning in that situation.

i dunno- i realize i'm being reductive- but i feel like a large part of this 'controversy' is a bunch of people suddenly realizing they've invested their personhood into a business, and now feel betrayed when the business acted like business at a business event. it might be dressed up as a 'fan event,' but it should be clear that whatever you want to call it, blizzcon is ultimately a sales pitch.

i know it's more complicated and nuanced than that- and blizzard has (on some level) taken advantage of goodwill in a crass, irresponsible and gross way- but at the end of the day, there's an awful lot of commerce surrounding this controversy (pricing models, product delays, digital and physical ticket sales, etc.) and i can't help but feel most of this is people realizing they're in too deep, and they don't know where to put that anger.

I'm not sure if this is in response to the fiasco, but Destiny 2 is free on PC until the 18th if anyone is interested. I was oddly drawn into it when I got it through Humble Bundle. Great game.

To me this seems like a weird double standard. Yes, in a world where all humans are completely adult, rational actors with no emotional investment in their media consumption, this announcement happens and nobody reacts negatively. They say "Well, I don't think that game appeals to me." sit down, and wait.

But that's not how humans are and it's not what Activision-Blizzard WANTS them to be. They have spent decades ENCOURAGING fans to excessively hype out their games. They ride that wave of Irrational and childish attachment to their games, that's what Blizzcon is all about! If it was just "Here are our new projects, see you next year" it wouldn't be an event it would be a press release they send out by email.

So yeah, when you spend all this time and energy keeping your fans exciting for you and your properties, when you go agienst those expectations, the fans are going to react negatively. That's just the other side of this coin that Activision-Blizzard has been spending for years.

I agree that people are entitled to leave when they want and they are entitled to be safe from harm. Blizzard employees are required to stay as per their contracts, however they too should be safe from harm. Both physical, psychological.

The words of the April Fools Guy were potentially harmful. I don't know who the presenters were in relation to Blizzard. That experience could impact any of those presenters, in a way that could cause injury (financial, physical, psychological). His comment was cruel unnecessary misplaced anger, direct the anger at the company not the individuals charged with making a presentation.

I know from experience the harm a few words can cause.

I like that people are actually surprised at how passionate and important people make these franchises when this convention is literally...only about Blizzard, its fans, and its franchises. The opposite end of this spectrum is the fans who only imagine having sex with Overwatch characters and like a character only by who they can ship them with. Blizzard encourages all sides of this fandom. They also setup the expectations and this has been a year of Blizzard failing to meet any positive expectations and so they are falling back on warcraft 3 and a version of wow that's 14 years old. Just saying. Do they deserve literal hatred, harassment, or abuse? Absolutely not. Do they deserve praise of stuff people don't want? Nope. I don't remember anyone defending Activision when they put out the last Tony Hawk game. Sometimes I do think many people, especially in the "game's press" are too close to some of these companies and you suddenly find out who you aren't allowed to criticize. Much like Voltaire, once you find that out you know who runs things.

Are you sure that the Overwatch sex story crowd and the Blizzard fans aren't in the same group? :D

I do still think that there is a pretty huge difference between disappointment and being a twat on Twitter. I feel like this has only become an issue because of the latter (but I've made that point known already so no need to rehash it).

This is one of the most embarrassing situations in gaming in recent memory.

Also, I can't stand Boogie now.

Yes, how dare he make a comment that can cause Financial harm to a blizzard employee. What? Is this really somthing a fan has to be concerned about? If his comments at a convention might cause a blizzard employee to suffer an issue at his job?

His comment was clearly directed AT the company, not the presenter. HE didn't ask the presenter why HE made Diablo Immortal. It was only attacking the "Employee" insofar as the employee was on the stage representing the company he worked for.

This all seemed so very unnecessary.

Like first you decide to have a fan event with 200$ tickets after saying that Diablo fans will have an exciting year to look forward to. Then you have to temper excitement with a press release that 1. confirms that diablo 4 is a game and 2. that it won't be at blizzcon. But at least there will be diablo-related news! Then you have a very uninspiring stage show where hardly anything exciting gets announced, but you keep the diablo segment as last. And then they ended it with a Diablo mobile game that uses the same tech as previous Netease games. They knew beforehand that people would not like this and powered through.

It would have been nice if everyone was prepared for the dissapointment of not hearing anything about Diablo 4. For instance, the host could have reiterated the information that they released in the blogpost. Just to make sure that everyone in the room knows what's up. Apparently not all those Diablo fans were up to date on the fact that the new Diablo 4 is in some form of production. Very strange!! I can see how putting a logo up & changing the workflow to deal with possible angry fans is not something you want to do as Diablo 4 team, but they could have had someone say that the new Diablo game is in production at least. After all, they already spoiled the announcement with that blogpost.

Now i don't know all the different ways in which people have been angry, but booing & asking sarcastic questions at the panel doesn't sound all too bad. I'm getting tired from all the pearlclutching from gamers that a dev made an off the cuff remark about phones like if that was the most hostile shit he could've come up with. Imagine if he walked off stage after getting asked if it was an aprils fool joke. Everyone would have ridiculed him for being so thin skinned. Why doesn't that work the other way around? Additionally , I heard about some petition that got started to cancel the Diablo mobile game and that just seems dumb.

All that could have been avoided if Blizzard thought critically about what they were going to offer to the people they sold their 200$ tickets to. Now i heard that they were planning to show something Diablo 4 related at the end, but the team didn't feel comfortable about that. So they cut it, but decided to leave the mobile game in. At that point, if you have any feeling with the community, it should raise an alarm to you that this is a real shitty way to treat your hardcore diablo fans. But they didn't! That's on Blizzard.

Honestly, if i was CEO at blizzard, i would put all the IP's on mobile in the upcoming years. I've seen how successful PUBG & Fortnite are. I've seen Diablo-type games on mobile get recommended by actual humans that enjoy it. There are plenty of ways to make the act of building stuff & sending units around, a thing you can play on mobile. The Warcraft & Starcraft brands are strong and all those games would sell boatloads. After all, people are nowadays okay with the idea that they get to play a game on a phone that gives a subpar experience to PC's or consoles. Diablo on mobile is a no-brainer.

But you don't want that to be the message you tell your hardened fans. You want them to focus on the big mainline games and position the mobile games to those hardcore fans as the revenue streams that enable them to focus more resources on the big games that the true fans love. And assure them that the mobile games doesn't contain exclusive canon storybeats. Just side stories & rehashes of stories they've seen in the mainline games already. Some of the Final Fantasy mobile games pretty much work like that and that community seems to be totally fine with that. We all know that putting these IP on mobile will be a financial success, the hardcore blizzard fans just don't want them to 'stoop to that level'. A few years ago those fans would hate to see Blizzard use lootboxes and here we are. The business is not going to keep money on the table because certain fans won't like it. They will only refrain from doing it if they feel like it will negatively impact their financial situation in the future. As long as their mainline games are good, which is something they control themselves, there's no reason why having mobile games will steer people away from their big titles. So it makes complete sense why they are doing this.

So yeah, i guess that Blizzard did put themselves in a dumb position and people getting mad at that is understandable. But at the same time, i feel like it must be nearly impossible for a room of blizzard fans to not be up to date with a blogpost that i, as someone that hasn't even played Diablo 3, did hear about. And them then getting real upset about an off the cuff remark to a sarcastic question and starting a rediculous petition to cancel the game is just silly.

Oh by the way, those blizzard folk enabling that anger by calling it out as PASSION, drives me up the wall though. You know, you can have passionate fans that are passionate in a positive way too right? Why are you trying to downplay that people being angry at you might be concerning? I certainly don't hope they play videoclips of this kerfuffle to show the diablo 4 team how passionate their fans are, with the intent to inspire the team. There is a difference between passion that's positive and this negative passion. A company shouldn't just handwave it away and treat it like a good thing.

Boogies paid for Diablo 4 has he?

it's so weird to me people care this much. a Diablo iPhone game seems like a no brainer, also making a Diablo 4 now seems insane to me. Like, Diablo 3 was cool because it was forever since Diablo 2. I hope that trend continues. I don't think we aren't getting Warcraft 4 because they did the card game. That being said I've been there fan of "x" company ever, I've always found that to be incredibly shallow and lame. No creator(s) are that sacred, except maybe when they're long done and dead.

@dan_citi: Sure but maybe they should team with a company that hasn't made some pretty terrible games full of some of the most awful, cliche MTX practices...

Tbh I just don't understand... I can play Diablo III on consoles and pc. Can I play Diablo III On mobile, no. But I can play Diablo III already when I want. And that's until Diablo IV comes out.. I just don't see the big deal..

All in all, Blizzard could have handled it like wayy better. Allegedly deleting comments on YouTube is just sad, dumb, and sad.

Oh my god I hate this word entitled. It's like the new word the internet justice brigade has latched on to. I didn't watch the blizzard show. I did see the twitch clip of that guy asking if it was an April fool's joke and I saw absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. How can people not see that this was a bad move to end the show with this without teasing something bigger? What did blizzard actually expect to happen? Serious question. Did they think people would be hype as fuck standing up clapping chanting "Diablo on phones!"?

The "you guys have phones, don't you?" response is egregious stupidity. Patronize your audience like that and then call them "entitled", alright then. By the way, I do have a phone, but it's a simple cheap cellphone, not a smartphone. It can call people, send text messages and tell time, which is enough for me. I'm not into ruining my vision, my neck or my wallet by wasting time on mobile games.

@frodobaggins: I don't think you'll find many people arguing that what Blizzard did was a good move. That's not the point.

@gunflame88: to be clear, Blizzard didn't call the people entitled. They applauded the PASSION they displayed.

People shouldn't be making death threats but Blizzard brought it on themselves, really. I'm not going to waste time trying to defend them, their bottom line likely won't be effected. Mobile game could be good or bad but a huge portion of their core audience won't play it because of the platform, and its healthy to express some amount of disappointment by venting on the internet.

That said, Boogie sucks and his argument doesn't make any sense. If someone bought the game and it was riddled with bugs and unplayable, that would be more a case to get entitled or indignant about purchasing a faulty product. This is just a case of not being obliged to enjoy everything a studio makes and getting impatient for something new to be made for you. Get mad, but be reasonable about it if that makes sense. I'm still pissed its taken this long for a new Armored Core game to be formally announced, but I'm not sending the fine folks at FromSoft hate mail and threats.

@spunkyhepanda: it's the point I just made. Also, I spoke on "the point" in my first two sentences

@onemanarmyy: Yes, I know, I should have phrased that better. Get patronized and then get called entitled by games media. The people who payed 200 bucks for attendance are especially in the right to be pissed.

But I wanna ride Dumbo.

Shit always gets cray cray when people wrap up their entire identity as a person into their hobby / entertainment sources. Gaming is, unfortunately, ground zero for this kind of reaction. Most of the reaction seems to take place on the internet, so it does not really bother me until it gets to the point of people making threats / death threats and other such massive over reactions.

There has been a ton of tension building among diablo fans, since even before diablo 3's release. First, it took 12 years for a sequel for a game which many people would put on their top of all time list. Then it comes out and has a wide range of both mechanical and meta decisions that are widely criticized, and many of which had to be changed post release. And then post release support was pretty abysmal, especially when you consider its competition.

So, basically, its been 6 years since the last game. Tensions are still rising, and then they decide to announce the next entry into the franchise as a game not at all targeted towards its core audience. Diablo 3 already felt like it wasn't really targeting the diablo 2 fans. And then this game is announced, and its like they turned that dial to 11.

And they announce it at their convention, during the prime slot, with an audience (both online and the actual crowd) entirely composed of the fans they are not targeting with this game. Of course it explode in their faces.

The worst part about this is that it is completely predictable. The fact that Blizzard couldn't see it is, I think, part of the reason people are so upset. It further cements in peoples minds that Blizzard is not in-sync with the desires of their core. They were already apart from it, and despite massive amounts of negative feedback, they continue to move away from it. And while I am not a diablo fan personally, I can certainly empathize that that fucking sucks.

ActiBlizzard are entitled to sell a game, and i'm entitled to not buy it, the two cancel each other out so we should stop using that word, not buying a game you don't want is not unusual, what is unusual is them acting like this was their best plan.
I really want to know how the people on stage at BlizzCon actually feel about it, they have to be positive and promote it that's their job, or do some developers really not care as long as they've got work.