Go look for yourself it isn't there. Some say it is Origin related and I think that is really stupid. It's shame I wanted to snatch it up on sale some day.

Still not going to sign up for Origin and I think it is in EA's best interest to work out another deal with valve.

Wasn't it the same type of thing with Dragon Age: Origins, being able to buy DLC through the game? Seems like piss taking to me if that's correct.

I think I heard valve having some dispute about DLC and how EA is making some of it exclusive to their service. Therefore valve is pulling their games. Which really sucks, but I am gonna make take the gamble that is Origin thing fails and these games make their way back to Steam.

I'm not signing up for another account and I don't need my e-mail tied to some arbitrary system I'm never going to check.

I happen to already use Origin because of Bad Company 2 so this matters 0% to me. All I care about is if it's dirt cheap and when.

DLC cannot be purchased *through* a game, it must pass through Steam like all other purchases, Valve asks from games.

EA is working desperately to maximize their earnings. They fussed up Crysis 2 in this way. This was next in line.

@eroticfishcake: The Legacy DLC isn't being sold through Steam (its available via an in-game store) and therefore violates their terms of service .

And yet I still don't care, since a game's availability on Steam does not impact whether or not I decide to buy it. Still, Valve's latest ToS seems to have some pretty strict guidelines about DLC availability. As far as I know Legacy was offered through an in-game store, so it more or less just sounds like Valve wants a cut of the DLC sales.

I think I heard valve having some dispute about DLC and how EA is making some of it exclusive to their service. Therefore valve is pulling their games. Which really sucks, but I am gonna make take the gamble that is Origin thing fails and these games make their way back to Steam.

I'm not signing up for another account and I don't need my e-mail tied to some arbitrary system I'm never going to check.

Now there's one less bad impulse buy choice someone browsing Steam can make.

You have to be able to purchase DLC or paid content through the steam service. That is the reason. Stop with the dumb theories.

It is a new regulation implemented with the allowance of free to play games. Apple has done similar things where you can't be linked outside of the 'app store' to buy content that will work within said app, like a kindle or ebook.

This is all very weird because the Mass Effect games are on Steam, yet the DLC is not sold on Steam in any way.
 
Now that I've said that, they'll probably take those down next. Good thing I bought them.

Bwhahahaha! Wait, why am I laughing? I was totally waiting for it to drop in price on one of those crazy Steam sales. 
 
@SomeJerk said:

DLC cannot be purchased *through* a game, it must pass through Steam like all other purchases, Valve asks from games.

EA is working desperately to maximize their earnings. They fussed up Crysis 2 in this way. This was next in line.

I still love how people are blaming EA when Valve is the one responsible here. I bet you can still buy DA2 from Amazon Digital, Impulse, D2D, etc along with Origin yet people choose to close their eyes and point a finger at EA and call them greedy.

I buy my Bioware games in boxes so... I don't really care.

I still love how people are blaming EA when Valve is the one responsible here. I bet you can still buy DA2 from Amazon Digital, Impulse, D2D, etc along with Origin yet people choose to close their eyes and point a finger at EA and call them greedy.

@ajamafalous said:

@Enigma777 said:

I still love how people are blaming EA when Valve is the one responsible here. I bet you can still buy DA2 from Amazon Digital, Impulse, D2D, etc along with Origin yet people choose to close their eyes and point a finger at EA and call them greedy.

Isn't it kinda EA being greedy, though? Why not allow your DLC to be bought through the Steam store?

Maybe they don't want Steam to take a cut? If none of the other services have a problem with it, I don't see why Steam should... That's even greedier, if you ask me.

@Enigma777 said:

I still love how people are blaming EA when Valve is the one responsible here. I bet you can still buy DA2 from Amazon Digital, Impulse, D2D, etc along with Origin yet people choose to close their eyes and point a finger at EA and call them greedy.

Valve offers the content and they have a right to charge a percentage to host that content, including the DLC. EA doesn't want to pay that percentage. Those other companies don't host any content themselves beyond the basic game packages. Valve also has a much more successful, community driven approach than any of their competitors, they add a lot to the end user experience and that stuff costs money so they have a right to charge for it because it equates to better sales to a larger audience. EA aren't just being greedy, they are actually being foolish and cutting of their nose to spite their face in the hopes that BF3 and ToR will bring them an audience to equal that of Steam's collective bargaining power. It won't.

@Enigma777 said:

I still love how people are blaming EA when Valve is the one responsible here. I bet you can still buy DA2 from Amazon Digital, Impulse, D2D, etc along with Origin yet people choose to close their eyes and point a finger at EA and call them greedy.

The point is: Valve wants any DLC for a game to be available on Steam too. They don't want the DLC to be only available on steam. What they are trying to to is prevent retailer specific DLC and that is a good thing in my book.

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Enigma777 said:

I still love how people are blaming EA when Valve is the one responsible here. I bet you can still buy DA2 from Amazon Digital, Impulse, D2D, etc along with Origin yet people choose to close their eyes and point a finger at EA and call them greedy.

Valve offers the content and they have a right to charge a percentage to host that content, including the DLC. EA doesn't want to pay that percentage. Those other companies don't host any content themselves beyond the basic game packages. Valve also has a much more successful, community driven approach than any of their competitors, they add a lot to the end user experience and that stuff costs money so they have a right to charge for it because it equates to better sales to a larger audience. EA aren't just being greedy, they are actually being foolish and cutting of their nose to spite their face in the hopes that BF3 and ToR will bring them an audience to equal that of Steam's collective bargaining power. It won't.

But in this case Valve isn't hosting any of the content... EA is, so they have no right to charge for it. Therefore they choose to remove the entire game. Sounds like Valve is the bad guy to me on this one.

And are you honestly trying to use the "We are bigger so we can do what we want" excuse? There's a reason why we have laws against monopolies...

 It's shame I wanted to snatch it up on sale some day.

@ajamafalous said:

@Enigma777 said:

I still love how people are blaming EA when Valve is the one responsible here. I bet you can still buy DA2 from Amazon Digital, Impulse, D2D, etc along with Origin yet people choose to close their eyes and point a finger at EA and call them greedy.

Isn't it kinda EA being greedy, though? Why not allow your DLC to be bought through the Steam store?

Maybe they don't want Steam to take a cut? If none of the other services have a problem with it, I don't see why Steam should... That's even greedier, if you ask me.

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Enigma777 said:

I still love how people are blaming EA when Valve is the one responsible here. I bet you can still buy DA2 from Amazon Digital, Impulse, D2D, etc along with Origin yet people choose to close their eyes and point a finger at EA and call them greedy.

Valve offers the content and they have a right to charge a percentage to host that content, including the DLC. EA doesn't want to pay that percentage. Those other companies don't host any content themselves beyond the basic game packages. Valve also has a much more successful, community driven approach than any of their competitors, they add a lot to the end user experience and that stuff costs money so they have a right to charge for it because it equates to better sales to a larger audience. EA aren't just being greedy, they are actually being foolish and cutting of their nose to spite their face in the hopes that BF3 and ToR will bring them an audience to equal that of Steam's collective bargaining power. It won't.

But in this case Valve isn't hosting any of the content... EA is, so they have no right to charge for it. Therefore they choose to remove the entire game. Sounds like Valve is the bad guy to me on this one.

And are you honestly trying to use the "We are bigger so we can do what we want" excuse? There's a reason why we have laws against monopolies...

fuck Steam

long live Origin!

Ima twisting the blade deep into Jeff's heart.

OH-REE-GENESSSSSSSSSSSSSS~

@Enigma777 said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Enigma777 said:

I still love how people are blaming EA when Valve is the one responsible here. I bet you can still buy DA2 from Amazon Digital, Impulse, D2D, etc along with Origin yet people choose to close their eyes and point a finger at EA and call them greedy.

Valve offers the content and they have a right to charge a percentage to host that content, including the DLC. EA doesn't want to pay that percentage. Those other companies don't host any content themselves beyond the basic game packages. Valve also has a much more successful, community driven approach than any of their competitors, they add a lot to the end user experience and that stuff costs money so they have a right to charge for it because it equates to better sales to a larger audience. EA aren't just being greedy, they are actually being foolish and cutting of their nose to spite their face in the hopes that BF3 and ToR will bring them an audience to equal that of Steam's collective bargaining power. It won't.

But in this case Valve isn't hosting any of the content... EA is, so they have no right to charge for it. Therefore they choose to remove the entire game. Sounds like Valve is the bad guy to me on this one.

And are you honestly trying to use the "We are bigger so we can do what we want" excuse? There's a reason why we have laws against monopolies...

You need to learn how VALVe's hosting service works - they host all the content, including the DLC. It's the reason why games with Steamworks support push you out to the Steam store to purchase DLC. Other companies seem quite happy with this arrangement, it's only EA who doesn't and that's because they don't want VALVe to share in the profits.

Monopoly? What? Are you trolling? Steam has a larger audience and that audience has been growing at a phenomenal rate and everyone knows that to be true.

@ajamafalous said:

@Enigma777 said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Enigma777 said:

I still love how people are blaming EA when Valve is the one responsible here. I bet you can still buy DA2 from Amazon Digital, Impulse, D2D, etc along with Origin yet people choose to close their eyes and point a finger at EA and call them greedy.

Valve offers the content and they have a right to charge a percentage to host that content, including the DLC. EA doesn't want to pay that percentage. Those other companies don't host any content themselves beyond the basic game packages. Valve also has a much more successful, community driven approach than any of their competitors, they add a lot to the end user experience and that stuff costs money so they have a right to charge for it because it equates to better sales to a larger audience. EA aren't just being greedy, they are actually being foolish and cutting of their nose to spite their face in the hopes that BF3 and ToR will bring them an audience to equal that of Steam's collective bargaining power. It won't.

But in this case Valve isn't hosting any of the content... EA is, so they have no right to charge for it. Therefore they choose to remove the entire game. Sounds like Valve is the bad guy to me on this one.

And are you honestly trying to use the "We are bigger so we can do what we want" excuse? There's a reason why we have laws against monopolies...

If it's in the ToS between Valve and EA it's fair game. You're acting as if Valve has no right to protect their investment. If EA is indeed breaching contract, then Valve is doing nothing wrong.


You really think it isn't the fact that EA thinks that BF3 and TOR will bring in enough people to Origin to negate having their shit removed from Steam? That's clearly what they're banking on.

No. If they wanted to compete with Steam it means they also want to compete with everyone else and from what Iv'e seen that's not the case. But hey, I get it. People have a hard-on for Valve and think it can do no wrong. I just choose not to see the world from rose-tinted glasses.

@SeriouslyNow: And that phenomenal growth is swiftly turning into a monopoly... I for one, want to see some competition in the marketplace, because... you know... it can only be a good thing. Also the only reason other companies seem to be "quite happy" is because they're not big enough to do otherwise. Just look at Blizzard. You don't see any of their games on Steam yet people aren't bitching about that. But then EA pulls out TOR and BF3 and suddenly the sky is falling.

@ajamafalous said:

@Enigma777 said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Enigma777 said:

I still love how people are blaming EA when Valve is the one responsible here. I bet you can still buy DA2 from Amazon Digital, Impulse, D2D, etc along with Origin yet people choose to close their eyes and point a finger at EA and call them greedy.

Valve offers the content and they have a right to charge a percentage to host that content, including the DLC. EA doesn't want to pay that percentage. Those other companies don't host any content themselves beyond the basic game packages. Valve also has a much more successful, community driven approach than any of their competitors, they add a lot to the end user experience and that stuff costs money so they have a right to charge for it because it equates to better sales to a larger audience. EA aren't just being greedy, they are actually being foolish and cutting of their nose to spite their face in the hopes that BF3 and ToR will bring them an audience to equal that of Steam's collective bargaining power. It won't.

But in this case Valve isn't hosting any of the content... EA is, so they have no right to charge for it. Therefore they choose to remove the entire game. Sounds like Valve is the bad guy to me on this one.

And are you honestly trying to use the "We are bigger so we can do what we want" excuse? There's a reason why we have laws against monopolies...

If it's in the ToS between Valve and EA it's fair game. You're acting as if Valve has no right to protect their investment. If EA is indeed breaching contract, then Valve is doing nothing wrong.


You really think it isn't the fact that EA thinks that BF3 and TOR will bring in enough people to Origin to negate having their shit removed from Steam? That's clearly what they're banking on.

No. If they wanted to compete with Steam it means they also want to compete with everyone else and from what Iv'e seen that's not the case. But hey, I get it. People have a hard-on for Valve and think it can do no wrong. I just choose not to see the world from rose-tinted glasses.

@Enigma777 said:

@ajamafalous said:

@Enigma777 said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Enigma777 said:

I still love how people are blaming EA when Valve is the one responsible here. I bet you can still buy DA2 from Amazon Digital, Impulse, D2D, etc along with Origin yet people choose to close their eyes and point a finger at EA and call them greedy.

Valve offers the content and they have a right to charge a percentage to host that content, including the DLC. EA doesn't want to pay that percentage. Those other companies don't host any content themselves beyond the basic game packages. Valve also has a much more successful, community driven approach than any of their competitors, they add a lot to the end user experience and that stuff costs money so they have a right to charge for it because it equates to better sales to a larger audience. EA aren't just being greedy, they are actually being foolish and cutting of their nose to spite their face in the hopes that BF3 and ToR will bring them an audience to equal that of Steam's collective bargaining power. It won't.

But in this case Valve isn't hosting any of the content... EA is, so they have no right to charge for it. Therefore they choose to remove the entire game. Sounds like Valve is the bad guy to me on this one.

And are you honestly trying to use the "We are bigger so we can do what we want" excuse? There's a reason why we have laws against monopolies...

If it's in the ToS between Valve and EA it's fair game. You're acting as if Valve has no right to protect their investment. If EA is indeed breaching contract, then Valve is doing nothing wrong.


You really think it isn't the fact that EA thinks that BF3 and TOR will bring in enough people to Origin to negate having their shit removed from Steam? That's clearly what they're banking on.

No. If they wanted to compete with Steam it means they also want to compete with everyone else and from what Iv'e seen that's not the case. But hey, I get it. People have a hard-on for Valve and think it can do no wrong. I just choose not to see the world from rose-tinted glasses.

You mean you choose to make some utterly unrelated statement when you can't argue your case with facts because, in your mind, you've painted those on the other side of the argument as idealistic fools.

A fool is someone who is ignorant and clings to said ignorance, despite being otherwise informed.

@SeriouslyNow: You and your facts. I make my own facts! Also go see my edit, you big baby you.

@ajamafalous said:

@Enigma777 said:

I still love how people are blaming EA when Valve is the one responsible here. I bet you can still buy DA2 from Amazon Digital, Impulse, D2D, etc along with Origin yet people choose to close their eyes and point a finger at EA and call them greedy.

Isn't it kinda EA being greedy, though? Why not allow your DLC to be bought through the Steam store?

Isn't Valve being greedy for not letting them do it via the game? They already get a cut on the initial game sales, and if the DLC is going through the EA service, it's not like it's costing Valve any money to host the content or giving up their bandwidth.

I don't think either company is going about this in the right way but I don't understand why EA is getting so much more flak than Valve considering some of the more shady practices the latter are occasionally rapped up in. It's Valve's new ToS that are causing the issue and that's something EA may not have known about when they were constructing the infrastructure to provide post-launch DLC for games like ME2, DA and Crysis.

The whole BF3 and SW:TOR is an entirely different matter altogether and is EA stepping away from a massive potential userbase just to not have to give away a percentage to Steam and I could see backfiring. Valve's new TOS (which was the only way they could monetize F2P model games) seems like the main issue to me here.

got it in the summer sale even with the shitty 40% off because i thought "i bet they will start taking more games off soon..."
 
I almost feel like getting bulletstorm now and get that out of the way, its pretty much the only (released) EA game i want that i dont have. And yes, im one of "those" people (the ones that if its not on steam, i dont buy you people... dont ask me to justify/explain it, i cant be arsed anymore :P)

@Enigma777 said:

@SeriouslyNow: You and your facts. I make my own facts! Also go see my edit, you big baby you.

Calling me names now? How mature of you. If you can't talk as an adult why even bother to engage with adults? Your edit is meaningless as is the entirety of your argument. You keep misusing the word monopoly and that's the central basis for your argument. Ugh. Children on the internet - how I wish it truely was the information Superhighway - maybe some drivers licensing context would prevent idiocy like yours, at least for a little while.

Stop monopolizing stupidity.

And yet Mass Effect 1 & 2 and Dragon Age Origins are both still available, all three titles have paid DLC that cannot be purchased through Steam - maybe Origins catches a break because Ultimate is available. Something here doesn't add up.

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Enigma777 said:

@SeriouslyNow: You and your facts. I make my own facts! Also go see my edit, you big baby you.

Calling me names now? How mature of you. If you can't talk as an adult why even bother to engage with adults? Your edit is meaningless as is the entirety of your argument. You keep misusing the word monopoly and that's the central basis for your argument. Ugh. Children on the internet - how I wish it truely was the information Superhighway - maybe some drivers licensing context would prevent idiocy like yours, at least for a little while.

Stop monopolizing stupidity.

Oh relax. I only meant it as a jest. If I wanted to insult you, you'd know it. But since you like your facts so much, here's a couple for you:

1. Steam is the closest thing to a monopoly in the PC game market

2. Most PC gamers have a hard-on for Valve

3. Steam engages in anti-competitive practices like a monopoly (can't be arsed to look for the links but you're a big boy that knows how to use google. There's plenty of dev testimonials out there. Use that big, mature, driver-licensed brain of yours to find some).

Bonus: Why do you turn everything into an argument? It's not good for your complexion, you know...

P.S. I'd be very interested to read even more of your hard-hitting theories on Internet literacy. A smaller man would probably tell you to try out your own medicine for change, but luckily I'm a great man.. er, child, so I welcome them all with open arms! <3

And yet Mass Effect 1 & 2 and Dragon Age Origins are both still available, all three titles have paid DLC that cannot be purchased through Steam - maybe Origins catches a break because Ultimate is available. Something here doesn't add up.

@Enigma777: No, Games for Windows Live is the closest thing to a monopoly in the PC retail games market, while EA's Origin comes a close second - they both offer price fixed products which aren't available anywhere else but used to be. Size doesn't predicate the definition of a monopoly - non competitive practices such as a singular supply chain and price fixing are what define a monopoly.

@Enigma777 said:

@ajamafalous said:

@Enigma777 said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Enigma777 said:

I still love how people are blaming EA when Valve is the one responsible here. I bet you can still buy DA2 from Amazon Digital, Impulse, D2D, etc along with Origin yet people choose to close their eyes and point a finger at EA and call them greedy.

Valve offers the content and they have a right to charge a percentage to host that content, including the DLC. EA doesn't want to pay that percentage. Those other companies don't host any content themselves beyond the basic game packages. Valve also has a much more successful, community driven approach than any of their competitors, they add a lot to the end user experience and that stuff costs money so they have a right to charge for it because it equates to better sales to a larger audience. EA aren't just being greedy, they are actually being foolish and cutting of their nose to spite their face in the hopes that BF3 and ToR will bring them an audience to equal that of Steam's collective bargaining power. It won't.

But in this case Valve isn't hosting any of the content... EA is, so they have no right to charge for it. Therefore they choose to remove the entire game. Sounds like Valve is the bad guy to me on this one.

And are you honestly trying to use the "We are bigger so we can do what we want" excuse? There's a reason why we have laws against monopolies...

If it's in the ToS between Valve and EA it's fair game. You're acting as if Valve has no right to protect their investment. If EA is indeed breaching contract, then Valve is doing nothing wrong.


You really think it isn't the fact that EA thinks that BF3 and TOR will bring in enough people to Origin to negate having their shit removed from Steam? That's clearly what they're banking on.

No. If they wanted to compete with Steam it means they also want to compete with everyone else and from what Iv'e seen that's not the case. But hey, I get it. People have a hard-on for Valve and think it can do no wrong. I just choose not to see the world from rose-tinted glasses.

@SeriouslyNow: And that phenomenal growth is swiftly turning into a monopoly... I for one, want to see some competition in the marketplace, because... you know... it can only be a good thing. Also the only reason other companies seem to be "quite happy" is because they're not big enough to do otherwise. Just look at Blizzard. You don't see any of their games on Steam yet people aren't bitching about that. But then EA pulls out TOR and BF3 and suddenly the sky is falling.

You've it backwards. EA is the monopoly here.

Steam isn't even trying to beone. It hosts numerous games with DLC that are also hosted on competing downloadable services and independent sites. The problem here is EA and their refusal to allow Steam access to host their DLC content. Refusal to share resources and products with others is the very basis of monopoly. Maybe it is justified by the fact that they created the content but it is still, by definition, a monopoly on that content.

If you are so much against monopoly, then why are you against Valve's attempt to fight EA's attempts at monopolizing their DLC content?

Blizzard also monopolizes its games in the digital download space. No one raises any questions because Battle.net functions better than Steam. It's deeply integrated into each of their games (WoW & SC2); it's trying something more than just being SteamLite for Blizzard games. If you use Battle.net, you know how much easier it is to manage your community interactions between SC2 and WoW.

Origin,on the other hand, IS SteamLite for EA games at the moment. Maybe they will integrate it into Battlefield 3 and The Old Republic but until then, it's just playing a losing game. EA also has a rich history of cutting off online access to games after 2 years. Given that we're talking online distribution here, it raises some serious questions about their long term commitment to the Origin experiment.

full of sadness.  

EA can suck it, I signed up for origin to play some Bf3 testing.. in about a week itll be deleted and in 2 years so will the account thx to their awesome user agreement crap. FYI who cares about dragonage 2 being pulled? It sucked compared to the first and if you have it then you can still play it and buy the dlc.

@Enigma777 said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Enigma777 said:

@SeriouslyNow: You and your facts. I make my own facts! Also go see my edit, you big baby you.

Calling me names now? How mature of you. If you can't talk as an adult why even bother to engage with adults? Your edit is meaningless as is the entirety of your argument. You keep misusing the word monopoly and that's the central basis for your argument. Ugh. Children on the internet - how I wish it truely was the information Superhighway - maybe some drivers licensing context would prevent idiocy like yours, at least for a little while.

Stop monopolizing stupidity.

Oh relax. I only meant it as a jest. If I wanted to insult you, you'd know it. But since you like your facts so much, here's a couple for you:

1. Steam is the closest thing to a monopoly in the PC game market

2. Most PC gamers have a hard-on for Valve

3. Steam engages in anti-competitive practices like a monopoly (can't be arsed to look for the links but you're a big boy that knows how to use google. There's plenty of dev testimonials out there. Use that big, mature, driver-licensed brain of yours to find some).

Bonus: Why do you turn everything into an argument? It's not good for your complexion, you know...

P.S. I'd be very interested to read even more of your hard-hitting theories on Internet literacy. A smaller man would probably tell you to try out your own medicine for change, but luckily I'm a great man.. er, child, so I welcome them all with open arms! <3

1. Battle.net is the closest thing to a monopoly in the PC game market. GFWL is a close 2nd, with Origin clicking at its heels in 3rd.
2. True. I keep Kleenex handy everytime I boot up Steam.
3. No. You should do some searching yourself. Frictionalgames praised Steam sales for Amnesia's sales. Ars Technica even interviewed various indie devs, asking them about Steam sales impact on their business - not a single complaint. Introversion is still making awesome games like Darwinia because of Steam.

Bonus: I'm dark skinned - what are you insinuating Mr. Hitler-mustache? :p

Fuck me, I am not going to Origin, they can take down their entire library for all I care

This is just dumb. EA are just going to lose potential sales by making their games exclusive to Origin.
 
As long as Steam exists, I have less than no interest in even looking at Origin.

@eroticfishcake: 
The Legacy DLC isn't being sold through Steam (its available via an in-game store) and therefore violates their terms of service . 
 
@Vonocourt:  Apparently the change in Steams terms of service only occurred when they introduced F2P games so games like DA and ME2 have been grandfathered in.

What a retarded ass move by EA. Dragon Age 2 wasnt exactly a great game, do they REALLY think people will go to fucking Origin to play a mediocre game like DA2?

And yet I still don't care, since a game's availability on Steam does not impact whether or not I decide to buy it.

Now there's one less bad impulse buy choice someone browsing Steam can make.

I wonder why the Mass Effect games haven't been pulled yet.

EA are like one of those screaming entitled children flailing on the ground because they aren't allowed to have what they want.  Valve is like the calm collected parent telling the child; "if you're good maybe you'll get that thing you wanted, and hey maybe even more if you continue to behave"   But nope, EA just keeps on flailing and crying, demanding their way or nothing. 
 
I've rarely bought EA games on steam over the last few years simply because the prices have always been too high and the support minimal at best but now I have absolutely no reason to not go to retail and in that scenario I'm definitely not buying anything but absolute must haves like Mass Effect 3 brand new because retail prices, especially in my country where $120 is the normal price for a new game is just fucked up.