So is this just another WoW wannabe

#1 Posted by Dizzyhippos (1489 posts) -

This game seems pretty good but I refuse to be first in on MMO's since TSW. Is it just another like WoW but game or does it seem different?

#2 Posted by fisk0 (4283 posts) -

Combat seemed pretty WOW-like I think, though I've only played a bit of the PS3 beta. The world was certainly the most intriguing part, not the gameplay.

#3 Edited by Vermisean (154 posts) -

In my opinion, it is quite different. It still maintains typical MMO tropes but holds some pretty neat mechanics as well.

Most exciting (to me) is the class system - you can level up multiple classes on the same character, and unlock advanced ones through this (ex. Dragoon is unlocked by levelling lancer to 30 and pugilist to 10, and acquiring an item).

Crafting seems pretty neat as well, as crafting classes level up separately as well.

The world is interesting and a main story can be followed that so far seems pretty neat.

The combat is typical for a game like WoW - pressing hotbar buttons activates abilities, spells, and moves. Spell animations are really pretty but don't really deviate from usual FF fare.

On the whole, I am really enjoying the game. Definitely a huge improvement over 1.0.

#4 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

From what I've played of it (Beta of the original non-Realm Reborn game), it didn't seem like a WoW-A-Like at all. More like a translation of the classic ATB-feel into the MMORPG space - meaning it felt a lot more indirect plodding and slow - as in kinda turnbased, but not really. It wasn't for me then, and I'm sure it isn't for me now.

Personally, I think upcoming games like Wildstar and Everquest Next are on the right track. In terms of combat, I guess The Elder Scrolls Online also goes in a more involved action combat direction. Though especially Everquest Next with its Minecraft-esque completely destructible and editable gameworld seems out-of-this-world promising. Check out Everquest Next Landmark to see the potential of its wholly editable world, where-in Sony and private creators will be able to monetize their creativity, and help each other breathe much more life into the MMO genre than we're used to.

Final Fantasy XIV seems like two steps back in comparison to its soon-to-be competitors, and even feels backwards in comparison to WoW (at least to me), in a time when the genre is in need of nothing short of a revolution. Check out Wildstar and Everquest Next to see what that might be. Everquest Next is still a while out, but Wildstar will launch early 2014, and I guess so will TESO. MMOs are inching their way back into the limelight, and eventually The MMO Renaissance will happen. Maybe even with help and on new gen consoles.

#5 Posted by Barrock (3545 posts) -

Feels more like Guild Wars to me.

#7 Edited by Karkarov (3178 posts) -

It has similarities to WoW (as does every other mmo that exists almost since WoW is the most derivative MMO there is) but is not the same. I could list the reasons why but I will just hit the highlights.... Multiple classes, ability to change classes as you see fit, combo/limit break skills with your party, an actual story worth caring about instead of a flimsy excuse to just go here and kill 10 "X", crafting system is excellent, smaller group numbers, faction choices that matter, blah blah.

That out of the way... I fail to see anything remotely revolutionary about Wildstar so far, it looks like WoW with some open world stuff from Guild Wars 2. ESO and Everquest Next have a chance to be "new" but I fear ESO has become too worried with looking like ES:6 than being a good MMO and EQ:N has not showing anything other than some neat video.

#8 Posted by Dizzyhippos (1489 posts) -

As much as I appreciate the response I asked about FFXIV not to recommend another mmo. on a side note how is FFXIV to play solo?

#9 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@karkarov said:

That out of the way... I fail to see anything remotely revolutionary about Wildstar so far, it looks like WoW with some open world stuff from Guild Wars 2.

The excellent DevSpeak series shows a lot of what I think are really neat touches in terms of mechanics. Combat looks especially promising, like the first time a developer gets action combat right, adding the execution side of active combat, whilst keeping classic MMO complexity and depth.

Guild Wars 2 kinda threw out the baby with the bathwater, by losing The Holy Trinity completely. Wildstar is even more action oriented, but keeps the depth that comes with the tried and true - and is as such the natural evolution to what is to me, the failed experiment that is GW2's combat mechanics.

In a way, getting action combat in a MMORPG right, is a revolution - simply because everybody who has tried their hand at it, has failed in some way or another.

WildStar: DevSpeak - Aiming [OFFICIAL]

WildStar: DevSpeak - Paths [OFFICIAL]

WildStar: DevSpeak - Movement [OFFICIAL]

WildStar: DevSpeak - Housing [OFFICIAL]

WildStar DevSpeak - Crowd Control [OFFICIAL]

#10 Edited by Scampbell (499 posts) -

Isn't WoW just another Ultima Online wannabe?

#11 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@scampbell said:

Isn't WoW just another Ultima Online wannabe?

Wasn't Ultimate Online quite different from the MMOs we play nowadays? The true progenitor of The Modern MMO is Everquest. Its progeny, World of Warcraft, is the current king and ruler of the subscription MMO space, whose offspring in turn never managed to step out of its shadow. Much to every MMO-players chagrin.

#12 Posted by dandead (171 posts) -

@seppli: Yes Ultima Online had a lot more freedom, it was way more sandboxy than your typical modern day MMO which is more like a "roller-coaster" these days.

#13 Posted by Juzie (168 posts) -

Isn't WoW just another Ultima Online wannabe?

Isn't Ultima Online just another Pacman wannabe? Like really pacman was like da first good game now everyone wants to make a game such a rip off there should only be 1 game damnit!

#14 Edited by Dizzyhippos (1489 posts) -

ok I can see asking if this was just another derivative mmo was a bad idea someone please lock this thread, I was asking if this was like TOR in that its just wow with a different tone of paint on it, wasnt trying to start a flame thread

#15 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@dizzyhippos said:

ok I can see asking if this was just another derivative mmo was a bad idea someone please lock this thread, I was asking if this was like TOR in that its just wow with a different tone of paint on it, wasnt trying to start a flame thread

What's wrong with talking about the broader MMO-market in the context of this thread? Who says you won't get more feedback on Final Fantasy? I don't think the broader discussion has been all that bad. No matter what, discussions on online forums very rarely stay within the narrow confines that the OP has set. As far as I can tell, there's nothing blatantly lock-worthy going on here. Oh well...

#16 Posted by Karkarov (3178 posts) -

ok I can see asking if this was just another derivative mmo was a bad idea someone please lock this thread, I was asking if this was like TOR in that its just wow with a different tone of paint on it, wasnt trying to start a flame thread

To answer your question, no it isn't. It is similar to wow in it's basic mechanics, but the gameplay and the overall tone and style of the game are different. Also it is perfectly easy to solo up until around level 15 or so when it starts asking you to run dungeons as part of your main story path missions. Fortunately there is a dungeon finder.

#17 Edited by Karkarov (3178 posts) -

ok I can see asking if this was just another derivative mmo was a bad idea someone please lock this thread, I was asking if this was like TOR in that its just wow with a different tone of paint on it, wasnt trying to start a flame thread

To answer your question, no it isn't. It is similar to wow in it's basic mechanics, but the gameplay and the overall tone and style of the game are different. Also it is perfectly easy to solo up until around level 15 or so when it starts asking you to run dungeons as part of your main story path missions. Fortunately there is a dungeon finder.

#18 Posted by bemusedchunk (700 posts) -

Isn't WoW just another Ultima Online wannabe?

Everquest developers would like a word with you...

Personally, and this is coming from someone who spent 7 years on and off WoW, I'm more excited for Camelot Unchained.

But thats because I miss Dark Age of Camelot so so much...

#19 Edited by Scampbell (499 posts) -

@bemusedchunk: I must confess I've never played neither WoW, Ultima Online or Everquest. It was just something I though I had heard somewhere, though the game mentioned was probably Everquest. A snarky comment based on my dislike of the word "wannabe". And the way games are often dismissed because of similarities to another game. There is no shame in borrowing great indeas, the world would be a terrible place if we didn't.

#20 Posted by JasonR86 (9742 posts) -

I'd say it's more like Asheron's Call.

#21 Edited by Wolfgame (814 posts) -

As much as I appreciate the response I asked about FFXIV not to recommend another mmo. on a side note how is FFXIV to play solo?

You are the one who drew a direct contrast in your original question by asking that the users here evaluate your question based on WoW so maybe you can stop being a dick.

#22 Posted by Verendus (348 posts) -

I wouldn't know. This is the first MMO game I've bothered to play.

#23 Posted by cbarnes86 (559 posts) -

Isn't every RPG just a Zork wannabe?

But seriously though, I think this game is pretty unique. I started playing MMOs when Everquest 1 starting getting big. Played that for about a year and a half then went to WoW. Played that for 2 years and took a long hiatus. Played a little Guild Wars 2 and SWTOR and enjoyed both, but wasn't feeling it as much as I used to feel WoW. Then this game came out and I have to say I'm back in! I have loved every minute of this game, including the multiple times I've had to do the starting areas. It is just such a different kind of pace and feel than other MMOs. It truly feels like an online Final Fantasy game. If you like Final Fantasy games (especially like 12), you should enjoy this quite thoroughly.

#24 Posted by Seikenfreak (515 posts) -

I haven't played WoW but I have at least tried most other modern MMOs and some stuff before WoW.

The only thing thats, IMO, clearly borrowed from other recent MMOs is the FATE events. Which is basically the sort of area events that I remember in Rift and GW2. The rest of just general new MMO stuff. Slick UI, Quest based progression system. Err.. Combat?

But the stuff that makes it unique is the class system (essentially the same as FF11), the Final Fantasy-like story, characters, and style. Fantastic quality music that's comparable to the single player games. Game looks amazing but I guess that's subjective. But I guess that's about all I can think of without flailing my arms and telling you the game is amazing (cause I want to).

General gist of it: If you like Final Fantasy games and MMOs then check this one out. If you liked Final Fantasy 11 but thought it was too hard or slow then check this out. If you just like playing new MMOs as they come out then check this out. If you are expecting gameplay that isn't like MMOs of the past decade then probably skip it.

Hope to see you in-game!

#25 Edited by Seikenfreak (515 posts) -

I haven't played WoW but I have at least tried most other modern MMOs and some stuff before WoW.

The only thing thats, IMO, clearly borrowed from other recent MMOs is the FATE events. Which is basically the sort of area events that I remember in Rift and GW2. The rest of just general new MMO stuff. Slick UI, Quest based story progression system. There are various ways to earn XP though. Err.. Combat?

But the stuff that makes it unique is the class system (essentially the same as FF11), the Final Fantasy-like story, characters, and style. Fantastic quality music that's comparable to the single player games. Game looks amazing but I guess that's subjective. I love playing with a gamepad so the game is much more leisure to be in IMO. But I guess that's about all I can think of without flailing my arms and telling you the game is amazing (cause I want to).

General gist of it: If you like Final Fantasy games and MMOs then check this one out. If you liked Final Fantasy 11 but thought it was too hard or slow then check this out. If you just like playing new MMOs as they come out then check this out. If you are expecting gameplay that isn't like MMOs of the past decade then probably skip it.

Hope to see you in-game!

#26 Posted by DeathTrap (255 posts) -

@seppli said:

From what I've played of it (Beta of the original non-Realm Reborn game), it didn't seem like a WoW-A-Like at all. More like a translation of the classic ATB-feel into the MMORPG space - meaning it felt a lot more indirect plodding and slow - as in kinda turnbased, but not really. It wasn't for me then, and I'm sure it isn't for me now.

Wait, are you judging FFXIV: ARR based on FFXIV 1.0? That doesn't seem particularly fair. From what I played at E3, the game has changed quite a bit.

#27 Edited by Belegorm (453 posts) -

@seppli said:

From what I've played of it (Beta of the original non-Realm Reborn game), it didn't seem like a WoW-A-Like at all. More like a translation of the classic ATB-feel into the MMORPG space - meaning it felt a lot more indirect plodding and slow - as in kinda turnbased, but not really. It wasn't for me then, and I'm sure it isn't for me now.

Wait, are you judging FFXIV: ARR based on FFXIV 1.0? That doesn't seem particularly fair. From what I played at E3, the game has changed quite a bit.

That's true. The game plays incredibly different, it looks incredibly different

#28 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@deathtrap said:

@seppli said:

From what I've played of it (Beta of the original non-Realm Reborn game), it didn't seem like a WoW-A-Like at all. More like a translation of the classic ATB-feel into the MMORPG space - meaning it felt a lot more indirect plodding and slow - as in kinda turnbased, but not really. It wasn't for me then, and I'm sure it isn't for me now.

Wait, are you judging FFXIV: ARR based on FFXIV 1.0? That doesn't seem particularly fair. From what I played at E3, the game has changed quite a bit.

No judgment. Just answering the question in the OP to the best of my knowledge. Specifically - it didn't play like a WoW-A-Like when I played it, all those years ago. Combat felt, for the lack of a better word, indirect - almost turnbased. Looking at some of the feedback here, like @seikenfreak's comment, it seems that still holds true now.

I never commented on the quality of game, other than that its combat not having been for me, and the unlikeliness of that aspect of the game having changed dramatically enough to make a difference - seeing how I'm eager to finally play a MMORPG that gets active combat right, and expressing the hope that such games might be on the horizon.

#29 Posted by Belegorm (453 posts) -

@seppli said:

From what I've played of it (Beta of the original non-Realm Reborn game), it didn't seem like a WoW-A-Like at all. More like a translation of the classic ATB-feel into the MMORPG space - meaning it felt a lot more indirect plodding and slow - as in kinda turnbased, but not really. It wasn't for me then, and I'm sure it isn't for me now.

Wait, are you judging FFXIV: ARR based on FFXIV 1.0? That doesn't seem particularly fair. From what I played at E3, the game has changed quite a bit.

That's true. The game plays incredibly different, it looks incredibly different

#30 Posted by GreggD (4507 posts) -

I had the perfect video response to this thread, but the user took it down. :(

#31 Edited by Seikenfreak (515 posts) -

@seppli said:

@deathtrap said:

@seppli said:

From what I've played of it (Beta of the original non-Realm Reborn game), it didn't seem like a WoW-A-Like at all. More like a translation of the classic ATB-feel into the MMORPG space - meaning it felt a lot more indirect plodding and slow - as in kinda turnbased, but not really. It wasn't for me then, and I'm sure it isn't for me now.

Wait, are you judging FFXIV: ARR based on FFXIV 1.0? That doesn't seem particularly fair. From what I played at E3, the game has changed quite a bit.

No judgment. Just answering the question in the OP to the best of my knowledge. Specifically - it didn't play like a WoW-A-Like when I played it, all those years ago. Combat felt, for the lack of a better word, indirect - almost turnbased. Looking at some of the feedback here, like @seikenfreak's comment, it seems that still holds true now.

I never commented on the quality of game, other than that its combat not having been for me, and the unlikeliness of that aspect of the game having changed dramatically enough to make a difference - seeing how I'm eager to finally play a MMORPG that gets active combat right, and expressing the hope, that such games might be on the horizon.

Did what I say come across as it being slow? Then I must say that I do not think the combat is slow. Its fast compared to FF11. It's hard for me to compare it to anything cause I barely remember those details of the other MMOs. Maaaybe its like the same pace as GW2? But without the dodging mechanics.

The combat in A Realm Reborn is much quicker then it was in FF14 1.0 when it launched. So turn based is not a word I would use to describe it. But I could see the combat in FF11 being described as turn-based ish. Only because it was slower and more deliberate.

But I haven't played WoW and from what I've seen of that its got millions of skills that take up your screen and you have to mash things quickly. So maybe for someone used to that this would seem slower?

#32 Posted by Marz (5658 posts) -

compared to what it used to be in 1.0, it's leaps and bounds better in ARR in terms of gameplay and content. With that said, it still a similar mmo to what is already out in the market so if you are expecting something drastically different, this isn't the game for you then.

#33 Posted by Belegorm (453 posts) -

It's similar to what's already in other MMOs, but it takes some of the best parts out of recent ones (like dynamic events from GW2) and puts them in an incredibly well-polished Final Fantasy-esque world. The game's running on a new engine, better than its old one and it feels like a different game.

#34 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -
@karkarov said:

I fail to see anything remotely revolutionary about Wildstar so far, it looks like WoW with some open world stuff from Guild Wars 2.

Sorry to derail the thread yet again. Just got the following Wildstar *raiding* video from my Gamespot youtube sub, and damn if it doesn't look and sound impressive. It really seems to manage bringing action and classic MMORPG complexity & depth together. Give it a look, if you please, and report back.

It sure seems like they'll be able to pull off tons of varied and inspired encounters with their combat mechanics. At the very least on the combat front, Wildstar seems to up the ante quite a bit. Turning it up to 11, so to speak.

#35 Posted by Zeik (2537 posts) -

I really like Wildstar in theory, but the limited time I got to play the beta left me rather unimpressed. Hopefully the final product is a lot better, because I would like it to be good.

I know FFXIV is fun though, so I'll continue to play this for now.

#36 Posted by Dizzyhippos (1489 posts) -

@wolfgame said:

@dizzyhippos said:

As much as I appreciate the response I asked about FFXIV not to recommend another mmo. on a side note how is FFXIV to play solo?

You are the one who drew a direct contrast in your original question by asking that the users here evaluate your question based on WoW so maybe you can stop being a dick.

ok I admittedly phrased my question poorly, thats on me

#37 Posted by WarlordPayne (701 posts) -

You spend the majority of your time in FFXIV, at least until 30 don't know about after that, playing solo. I've had to run 4 multiplayer dungeons and one group boss fight up to 30, everything else I've done by myself. And there's a cross server matchmaking system to get you into the group stuff with a minimum of effort.

#38 Posted by kagato (944 posts) -

Its not unlike WOW but all mmos have things in common so i wouldnt let that put you off playing the game. You can play solo for the majority of the game but the way it throws you into multiplayer instances is really fun and pretty well thought out. Fates for example are events that happen randomly on the map where either a swarm of monsters or one huge epic one will spawn and everyone who has a hand in fighting and defeating the monster gets some experiance and gold. You dont team up for this, its just a bunch of people who happend to be in the area all standing beating the living daylights of this unfortunate creature. The boss dungeons when you have to use duty finder are also fun, it automatically selects a varied mixture of folks, sticks you in a dungeon, its pretty great!

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