Deepish Look: Banjo Kazooie- The Platformer that Was Left Behind

Hey Duders,

Here is a Deepish Look! My usual Deep Look videos focus in on a cool gameplay mechanic or story element from a game I have played the heck out of, in the hopes that I can share what makes that mechanic so cool. This Deepish Look is a bit less critical and a bit more review-y or Quick Look-y. I still try to give some good insight into the game I'm playing, but this video is geared a little bit towards people who may not have played the game in question. Also I aim to keep the videos under 20 minutes.

In this Deepish Look I show off Banjo Kazooie and all of its olden charms. I try to articulate what keeps me coming back to this awesome game and what made this game so special. I also talk about how Banjo Kazooie carved out its own little niche in platformer history.

Great video. You definitely articulated as to why these games are so special. While I never really played Tooie, Kazooie holds a special place in my gaming memory.

Banjo-Kazooie was my favorite game for several years. I got way, way obsessed with that damn ice key and those weird eggs to the point that I would have dreams about discovering new secret stuff in the game. I think Banjo-Tooie made the worlds way too huge and confusing and collecting some of the jiggies got pretty convoluted and tedious. Also, Grunty stopped rhyming, and fuck that. I suspect the first game holds up better these days.

Watching that video reminded me of how great the sound design was in Banjo Kazooie, it has really satisfying noises whenever you collect something. Easily one of my favorite 3D platformers (a genre I dearly miss) of the N64/PS1 generation.

I love Banjo-Kazooie and I think you might have understated is how diverse its levels are. The levels are just FILLED with characters that add to the feel of them. Boggy the bear, the lovable robo-shark Clanker, the bird you raise through the seasons, the droopy camel, the many many ghosts in Mad Monster Mansion, the signing turtles, and lots of others just make the levels more than just an "ice level" or a "desert level". In the ice level alone, there is the shy walrus, Boggy the bear, his kids, the tree lights, those damn evil snowmen, and the infamous ice key. Super Mario 64 might do its platforming better but Banjo-Kazooies world was just so much more of a joy to explore and experience. The quiz show near the end of the game might be one of the greatest "boss levels" on the N64.

There is a new game being made that looks quite promising that I am looking forward to its release. It's called A Hat in Time and it got ten times its initial kickstarter funding goal so the interest in these games is out there. A big part of what made Banjo-Kazooie for me was its great music, and Grant Kirkhope is working on some music for this game too.

Banjo Kazooie was my childhood favorite game. I really need to start actually watching your videos because I apparently agree with you often enough :p

Banjo Kazooie is definitely holds a special place in my heart and your video expresses the why of that sentiment quite well. If anything I'd emphasize more on how just plain charming and goofy (and super British) that entire game is.

It also has likely held up the best of Rare's N64 offerings because of its more straightforward, concise nature. DK64 is wayyyyy too big and bloated for its own good, Banjo Tooie is still great but occasionally gets a tad convoluted and Conker suffers from having a bunch of dated pop culture references that have not gotten better with age.

here's a question I'd love to ask you. Did these platformers not die, but evolve into the open world games? You mention that in the exploration to open up new section aspect and I was reminded more how the Assassins Creed games are now.

By the way, great video game. On a side note, if you captured the N64 game..... the frame rate.... good thing you choose the 360 version. I'd gone with emulator, since the Rare games seemed to have better emulation then most N64 emulations.

@crithon: That's really weird, I had never considered the idea that other genres just took the whole "hub world" idea and ran with it until it just became open world, I mean hell they even have collectibles and secrets.

Isn't there some recently kickstarted game that's explicitly an homage to the N64/PS1 era hub world based platformers? Could have sworn people linked to it last time there was a similar discussion.

I wonder if I'd have played this game on the N64 I would feel differently about it. I'd say that Ratchet & Clank is my favourite series of games and I'm always on the lookout for a good 3D platformer. I was really excited to finally get around to play this game when it released on XBLA, but found myself really frustrated by some of its more confusing structure.

I got stuck so many times and had to look up what to do or where to go next. I remember not having a clue that you could break the windows to get into the ship as they don't look like something you'd interact with and that spiral tree with birds (?) popping in and out was a nightmare.I also vaguely remember getting confused in a graveyard. I really thought I'd adore Banjo Kazooie, but kinda came away from it hating it. I got up to the quiz section and just didn't want to do it anymore.

I do understand that it was probably pretty impressive at the time though.I was never a big fan of Mario 64 either, a game I've been meaning to revisit to see if I still feel the same way about it. I loved the hell out of Nuts & Bolts.

@gunstarred: Yeah the novelty of most of the Banjo Kazooie puzzles are actually a bit much if you have no idea what to expect going in. There is a variety to its gameplay that is hard to beat, but that also leads to a bunch of puzzles that can seem obtuse. You should try to play it again with a guide and see how you feel. If you aren't beating your head against the level design the game is much more fun.

@crithon: I certainly think that open world games ate their lunch on the exploration front. However, I think the fundamental gameplay of most open world games is so different that I think there is still a place for 3D platformers like this. Driving cars and shooting fools while still collecting things is a far cry from jumping on boxes and solving puzzles.

@frostyryan: I think this is the part where I say you should "like and subscribe and join the conversation." Or something like that. I don't know.

@descends: You're right. The side characters are definitely a huge part of the Banjo Kazooie experience. From afar it can certainly seem like Banjo Kazooie is just ticking off world design boxes, but the character design moves beyond those boilerplate molds.

@spunkyhepanda: I actually loved the larger worlds in Tooie and the permanent Kazooie transformation. Did anything cool happen in the Xbox versions if you actually got the ice key and the eggs?

I think the idea of bigger worlds was fine, but without a map, I found it really hard to remember where anything specific was. Also, trying to complete everything without a guide would be kind of a nightmare because your tenth jiggy in a world might only be accessible through a random passage from another world. It's also stuff like the Mumbo pads. When you find one, instead of letting you automatically swap to Mumbo or something, you have to find Mumbo's hut, swap, make your way back to the pad, eekum bokum, go back to the hut, swap, and go back to the pad to do whatever with the thing you eekum bokumed. It's probably not quite DK64-level stuff (loved it at the time, haven't played it recently) but it does seem overly tedious at times.

I think the key and eggs in the Xbox version unlocked stuff in Nuts and Bolts? It's cool they finally did something with those damn things. Nothing was more sad to me than smashing open those N64 carts in Tooie. I was ready to Stop 'n' Swop.

@thatpinguino: if I recall correctly, the stop 'n swop stuff merely unlocked the stuff you got from the N64 carts in the original version of Tooie (so Jinjo as a multiplayer character, that slam move and I believe an exclusive gamerpic? It's a little fuzzy). Still a cool implementation, glad they put it in.

@arbitrarywater: Yeah it certainly was a weird and cool add on.

@spunkyhepanda: I liked the interconnected worlds since they added to the strong sense of place that I come to Banjo Kazooie for. I was a chronic guide user so I didn't run into the issues you mentioned. But I can certainly see where you are coming from. The increased interconnectedness and complexity can be a detriment in a game where collecting everything is a main draw. I also want eekum bokum to become a real verb now.

@thatpinguino: True, but I bring back Assassin's Creed since platforming is so essential to that game. But then AC brought in a lot of linage from Prince of Persia developers so it did feel an extension of that design. Although by AC3 there were very little underground temples where your pulling on levers to run across room to leap onto a platform. But your right, and in most of these games they try giving you more activities and less running around to flip switches, push buttons and collect something. But I think something like AC series and maybe Infamious series still have that platformer elements and still make it key element of the gameplay is how you navigate in those environments.

@crithon: Assassin's Creed has climbing, but the act of playing that game bears almost no resemblance to how you play a 3D platformer. In the AC games you just hold the climb/fancy run button and aim your character in the right direction and the climbing just happens. 3D platformers made the act of getting from place to place both fun and a challenge. I would say that some open world games definitely incorporate elements of 3D platformers, like Infamous and Crackdown for example. It looks like Sunset Overdrive is going in that direction as well. The other huge difference between most open world games and the platformers of old is the setting and tone. 3D platformers were almost entirely cartoony and light-hearted while open world games are almost entirely set in something resembling reality. That bit of tonal dichotomy is a big separator in my eyes.

I never played Banjo-Kazooie. I spent all my time with Super Smash Bros., Zelda: OoT, and Super Mario 64. That said, I was not from a family that could afford to buy new games really. I rented a lot of stuff. Plus I was a kid so I made bad choices. This was a cool video to sell me on why I should go buy it and play it now.

@mbradley1992: Banjo Kazooie is totally worth playing for the humor and music alone and the excellent level design just puts it over the top. I'm glad the video was useful!

@thatpinguino: Our very own @danryckert did an episode of "Replay" while at Game Informer that you might find interesting. In it he and another editor explain why Banjo Kazooie is guilty of aimless game design and other overlooked flaws. Personally I agree with this assessment:

@thatpinguino: AC3 is probably the best example of what you are talking about, I was thinking more along the lines of AC2 the hidden ruins or cathedrals to uncovers glyphs. But again I say "Evolution" because a lot of these games still value platforming as an important gameplay mechanic and make it a fun activity. This is the reason why Mario 64's Whomp's Fortress remains one of the best levels of this genre, there's enough challenge in the environment to make it worth replaying even if your knocked down to the start.

@crithon: Oh, ok. Yeah the challenge rooms definitely have some platforming appeal. Maybe it is just the setting that makes the cartoon platformers feel so different to me than open world games with platforming in them.

@zombiepie: I watched it and Dan's "criticism" is mostly that Banjo Kazooie is not Mario 64. Almost all of his criticisms treat Mario 64 as the platonic ideal that Banjo should have aspired to. Banjo Kazooie is certainly less linear than Mario 64, but I don't think that is a problem. It is just a difference. Both games are good, but they are not entirely going for the same thing. Banjo Kazooie has more exploration, variety, and character than Mario 64. Mario 64 has tighter controls, better level design, and it frankly did it all first.

Banjo-Kazooie was my favorite n64 game from when Nintendo Power sent me a VHS previewing the game. I think I must have watched that thing 100 times. Man, I even had dreams that I was playing it. It was the first game I was super psyched for. It was also the first game that I ended up adoring and playing ceaselessly for many months. Oh man, Nostalgia is hitting me. Gotta... go... play.

@earlessshrimp: Damn they used to mail out VHS tapes? That's a new one to me. i bought the guide to Banjo Kazooie and read it constantly, but never bought the N64 version. Tooie was my first time actually playing the series. I played up until the final boss when the 360 version came out. I fell off for some reason without giving Grunty the what for. I think Mass Effect was involved in some way...

@thatpinguino: Yeah, I don't know what the deal was with it, but they had just decided to mail me this VHS tape. It was history in the making. EDIT: history for me.

@thatpinguino: Yeah, I got several such tapes from Nintendo Power. I also was once sent a promotional tape for Final Fantasy VII by Squaresoft. It was a very different time.

Well looks my fears are right, I did miss out on a special game back in the day.

Nice job @thatpinguino!

@slag: Thanks! Luckily the 360 version is superior to the original. You're not to late to catch up on the bear and bird action!

@earlessshrimp: @hailinel: That seems so expensive for a promo! Maybe shipping VHS tapes was cheaper than I thought? Did you ever buy a game based on a VHS promo?

@thatpinguino: I'm not sure. They were interesting to watch. The Final Fantasy VII video was amazing just to see the game in motion, but I didn't own a PS1 and didn't buy the game until the PC version a few years later.

So I just remembered this has probably my favorite final boss battle of all time. Jinjonator! In fact, everything about the end of this game is amazing. The crazy game show, the fake ending, the reveal that you need way, way more jiggies, etc.

If I have to acquire a 360 to play it, then it is too late. :)

I don't think I would anyway, that era of gaming is perhaps the very hardest to go back to now. I think the 8bit/16 bit stuff and PS2 onward hold up a lot bteter than the PS1/N64 stuff on average.

@slag: I don't know about whether the snes games actually hold up better, or if most game writers and enthusiasts from the second wave of video game popularity are in their late 20s to early 30s. For most people in their late 20s/ early 30s the nes and snes games fall right in the "gaming golden age" that Paul Barnet has described before on the site. For me PS1 and PS2 games hold up way better than they have any right to. I mean I had nice things to say about Brave Fencer Musashi for goodness sake. I don't think Banjo is worth buying an N64 or 360 for, but if you have either it is worth a second look.

@spunkyhepanda: Yeah I love that the tiny collectable dudes are the form of the super weapon that ends the game. Also that quiz show is amazing. What better way to force players to really explore than to force them to answer trivia and perform physical challenges based on levels in the game. What a weird, great game.

Oh no,I don't think this has anything to do with a Golden Age Nostalgia glasses.

I definitely think if you sit down today's 6-9 year olds in front of games from all major console gens, they would have the hardest time with those early 3d games (well not counting super super early stuff like Atari 2600 games) like a Battle Area Toshinden, Tekken, Metal Gear, Twisted Metal or Syphon Filter much more so than the NES/SNES stuff.

I think it entirely has to do with the with the experimental nature of the era, the lack of knowledge how to do 3D right and the relative roughness of the looks of some of those games coupled with the lack of detail and wonky cameras (not to mention those games didn't have 2 thumbsticks yet, that era in its own way had the most unique controls of any era).

Once you get to Ps2/Xbox/GC era must of those problems have been ironed out and the graphics start to look pretty good.

That isn't to say there aren't some titles that hold up better than others (the PS1 Final Fantasy games hold up pretty well in large part due to their pre-rendered backgrounds with locked cameras, perhaps the best of anything from that era.)

@slag: I mean some of the poorly controlling stuff definitely doesn't hold up at all. And most of the art just looks ugly for PS1 and N64 games. But I think the stand outs like Ocarina, Super Mario 64, the PS1 FF games, MGS, and even some of the 3D fighters hold up. There were definitely a lot more impenetrable games with bad controls in the PS1 era, but I think the cream still holds up. To be fair, I have tried to play PS1 games with my girlfriend and she just couldn't handle FF7's graphics at all. There is certainly something to be said for bad graphics just driving people away.

Oh for sure, nearly every era has classics that are nearly timeless. I'd agree with what you listed. I'd throw some others like Quake III, Grim Fandango and Starcraft: Brood War. But there is definitely good-decent games that do not hold up very well (lookin at you Goldeneye)

I just meant that taken as a whole relative to other eras immediately before and after, I feel that particular era is probably the hardest for a new gamer to appreciate (excluding the really archaic Atari stuff like ET or Adventure etc). Your girlfriend's reaction I think is a perfect example. FFVii is great, but the look of those character models is real rough to someone who didn't see it in context.

And then there is the controls which everyone was experimenting with then. Take for example Resident Evil, back in the day I didn't remember people liking the Tank Controls but I don't think became aggressively hostile to them until the next era where the Dualshock 2 refined what a modern controller should be. Because in the Ps1 era, clunky controls was a frequent occurrence to have to overcome it didn't feel that annoying. Capcom was probably very prescient to switch the control style with RE4 when they did.

That being said, I really miss how it felt to game in that era. Games felt incredibly innovative then in a way they've never really recaptured for me personally since. There was so many new ideas and genres popping up everywhere. I imagine it will be that way until the next major hardware leap (maybe Oculus rift?).

@slag: Yeah the spirit of innovation that dominated the late 90s early 00s game industry was something to behold. I think the recent indie game movement is bringing that ambition and innovation back in a big way. Games like Gone Home, No Man's Sky, the Walking Dead, Antechamber, The Witness, and the Binding of Isaac all are pushing boundaries and redefining genres. Not to mention MineCraft. We are living in exciting times right now and the indie games that have come out in the last few years have made huge strides for game design. We don't necessarily need new hardware as much as lower barriers to entry for developers. Opening up the industry to people who aren't coding/artistic visionaries is going to really help change the types of games that get made, simply by allowing new creators to take a crack at game design.

I dunno man, I mean I like a lot of what indie games are doing, it's one reason I've played so many lately. But I feel like most of the creative risk taking in this gen is coming from the low budget guys, where in the Ps1 era (what is that Gen 5?) it came from studies of all sizes. I get why the AAA games don't/can't do it anymore but I do miss the days when they did.

Not sure how long that indie gravy train is going to keep rolling either, Digital distribution is rapidly maturing (which imo is the driver of all this in the indie space), the channel which once offered very inexpensive large exposure now is getting very cluttered and loud to the point Steam's store design can barely keep up. It's only a matter of time before indie games have to resort to massive marketing expenses as their AAA brethren do to even get seen, which will drive up production costs to the point it undoes some of the wondrous low cost environ we've seen.

I really do think hardware is directly tied to innovation, And you can argue that the indie revolution is only possible due to improved network & distribution hardware (I certainly would). But that's also why it's bit discouraging that the big boys aren't playing along, because new hardware is expensive and without the AAA guys pushing this innovative new hardware won't happen.

it's also one reason why Nintendo always comes up with these gimmicky hardware since the GameCube. They know they can't outspend and outpower Sony & Microsoft so they consciously decide to fork into new play experiences which hopefully sparks the creation of new gaming experiences. I personally don't think the WiiU's gamble was the right gimmick, but of the three systems I do think it is the most innovative (especially now that Xbox has backpedaled on virtually everything unique the console was going to try)

To be fair my biases about innovation here apply, as laid out expertly by Danny O'Dwyer

http://www.gamespot.com/videos/the-point-destiny-reviews-and-aging-gamers/2300-6421421/

@slag: I mean the scale of a triple A game now versus the PS1/N64 era is just hard to compare. I mean each triple A game that gets made now takes hundreds of millions of dollars and hundreds of people versus the tens that were needed 15 years ago. Some of the highest end stuff like the FF games might have had teams in the hundreds between contracted work and development work, but the scope still doesn't stack up with now. I would guess that some of the biggest indie teams now might have similar team size to some of the smaller teams of 15 years ago. Not to mention how much work you can do if you pick a smart scope or coding technique. No Man's Sky looks like it will rival just about any triple A game in terms of scope simply because they really spent their time on developing amazing procedural generation algorithms.

Now the digital distribution issue is going to need solving sooner rather than later if new indie teams want to break through. Indie games have been super dependent on highlighting from marktplace owners and publications and there just is not enough space in either location for all of the indie games coming out now. Now I think that there are things like kickstarter that can remove the sales end of things a little bit, but ultimately these games are going to need to reach the larger game playing audiences for their makers to stay solvent.

I don't think new hardwear alone drives innovation. Desperation, hunger, and having the freedom to experiment can cause people to move the needle as well. You don't get Final Fantasy without Square almost going out of business. You don't get Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts without Rare radically searching for an identity. New technology definitely opens up new avenues, but there are a number of games that are technically possible with old technology that people haven't discovered or made yet for whatever reason.

I think Danny hits the nail on the head in his video and my optimism might be from my position as a programmer, a young-ish person, and an optimist. I can see a lot of avenues that are technically possible without anything changing technologically and I want to try some of them.

@thatpinguino:

That's true, there's no question team size has exploded, it seems to be the age old problem that effect most competitive economic systems as they mature. Eventually you end up with very few players stabilizing an industry, which ultimately discourages innovation. (Take for instance Breakfast cereal, that is a practical oligopoly that has remained largely unchanged for nearly 100 years. Or Solar Cell manufacturers which has seen their numbers in recent years cut by about 66%) Fortunately games I think still have a good ways to go before that happens all the way.

Certainly you absolutely have to that human element you described to drive innovation and there is a lot of optimization you can do with what you have to work with

Maybe a better way to put across my point is that Hardware sets the range of possibilities and the human element that you brought up determines where you land in that range. After all you could't make Wii Sports or Mario Galaxy or Sebastian Joust or Guitar Hero on the Nintendo 64, but as you pointed out games like Banjo Kazooie and Uncharted can push the limits of what that hardware can offer.

Your point is exactly we need more diversity (geographical, cultural and certainly more gender diversity) in our creative leads in this industry. I think there a lot of landing spots in the existing range that probably don't happen because of the relative homogeneity of the creators backgrounds.

Anyway I've derailed us enough, hopefully my POV is clear even if you don't agree. :)

@thatpinguino: I know I personally got major hype for Banjo-Kazooie solely because of that VHS tape. I think that was the only one that got me so into a game that I thought I HAD to play it.

@earlessshrimp: I wish people would advertise games to me like that instead of with rippin Led Zepplin commercials that completely obfuscate what the heck a game is about.

@slag: I'm reading you load and clear. Good talk! I don't think we disagree so much as have slightly differing points of emphasis.

Now if you REALLY want to see why the PS1 and N64 era can be hard to go back to then check out my Brave Fencer Mushashi video... Voice acting has come a long way.