Although its already been confirmed that there is in fact a big loot reward, I'm still a little disheartened by all the people saying "Wow, whats the point if no loot?!".
What about just the rush from something new and challenging? I guess that type of mentality is long gone and only the promise of loot will keep people interested. I find that kinda sad...
This is one of those "it's been super cute to see people complaining about this who have no prior MMO progression raiding experience" situations. I've been in raiding guilds in vanilla/BC/Wrath-era WoW that raided for 3-4 hours a day, three days a week, and we'd still have weeks where we didn't down every boss (especially towards the beginning when ilvl is lower and everyone is still learning the mechanics).
Now they just need to add this wonderful, varied game play to you know, the rest of the game so us plebs who will never have an organized group have something else to do. I'm really liking the game, and have 50 some odd hours in, but its a shame they decided to save the interesting new game play for a raid most people won't get to actually enjoy, but at least it's a start.
Quoted for truth. I really like some parts of Destiny, but the idea that a prerequisite for me to do this stuff would be applying to join a guild? Meh. If that were something that I could easily do in the game, then maybe I'd consider it, but lacking the friends/time, I don't really see myself doing some sort of guild application process on some website.
It's nice that this raid is varied and interesting, or whatever, but it'd be even nicer if that were part of Destiny proper. As it is, I don't see myself playing it much longer - certainly not with this wall in front of me.
...it's long been known that this kind of gameplay doesn't attract players.
I'm curious where this finding came from. Is there a study that back this up?
I ask because from where I'm sitting it seems that this exact kind of gameplay has been attracting plenty of people for a long time now.
Like the millions that still play WoW, though I have no idea many of them actually raid. Raiding can be pretty exciting, but I can't afford the time investment anymore.
It's pretty god damned annoying that nobody seems to be able to convey what actually makes these stupid raids so hard. They are always so pointlessly vague about it when it's just a shooter so It can't really be all that complicated.
Also I think Bungie is in for a rude awakening when they realize that games focused on hardcore raiding like this seems to be, fail hard in this day and age. Look at what happened to wildstar. Massive focus on the raiding aspect of the game and it's turned into a huge failure when they realized that the majority of the people playing their game aren't into that. Now they are trying to rush out a bunch of solo content to keep player numbers from dropping too much. Like how many full six person groups of friends does Bungie think are gonna sit around and grind to play their 10 hour long raid content for months on end?
None of that sounds fun. First you need to know a group of people who are competant enough to be decent teammates. Second you have to have that much time to devote to it. Third it is just bullet sponge enemies with no real reward at the end.
How was any of this a good idea? I would rather have multiple raids split up into 1-2 hour sequences. Relying on other people sucks no matter what platform and when its hard to even find people...sigh. just disappointment
No loot pretty much sums up my current thoughts on Destiny
I really like this game, but this is, unfortunately, my biggest gripe. In most loot based RPGs, you get a ton of loot. You may not be able to use a lot of it, but it guarantees that you have money, and in this game's case, upgrade materials too. I'm simply not getting enough weapons to dismantle to get the materials needed to upgrade the ones I have, nor am I getting enough weapons that replace the ones I'm using. I've had the same helmet for what seems like forever. *sigh* I love playing the game for it's shooting mechanics (it's just so damn fun), but I have to agree that the lack of loot in a loot based game is frustrating and is really starting to wear on my nerves.
No loot and excessive amounts of loot is a difference. I saw the youtube video of some guys who tried and failed at the raid after playing for five hours. They were trying to be organised but they were also clueless (as is everybody else at this point). It was fun watching them figure out what to do and not always knowing the best way; it's a challenging game, after all. And they did get some decent loot. Nothing crazy, but definitely not "nothing".
Perhaps if you played it a few times this will all become easier - and of course your character will be a higher level. So these raids will become easier in the future. What bugs me a bit is that there is no link to the stream that was recorded. If anyone knows where to find it, I'd appreciate the info. Gonna look for it myself now :)
Good job on the article @patrickklepek. I usually try to take on a raid in a game eventually but it was interesting to read about a group that wanted to be the first to do it.
"All told, that group’s raid took 10 hours and 42 minutes and 32 seconds. During that time, it took down a combined total of 5,733 enemies, and collectively died 1,606 times."
Ah, they employed the complex "human wave" strategy. A good game beaten by a good guild.
WoW's world firsts have been at least this intense year after year, and the hardcore raiding community has been imploding due to burnout and hyper-competition, but only when Destiny comes along does Patrick see an interesting story in a world first?
I feel like Patrick should take advantage of his investigative skills and start searching for the fallen-out members of guilds like Ensidia and investigating how hardcore content that continually keeps improving still manages to lose tons of its most dedicated adherents. There's a story there that's way more interesting than this one.
Great article, and everything sounded encouraging until the end... no loot? Really?! No one at Bungie thought it might be a good idea to provide a legendary/exotic drop after completing something that is expected to take several hours to finish!? Even if they change it, the fact that it starts out that way shows how out of touch Bungie is with this style of game. Here I thought completing strikes on high difficulty settings without loot was bad... but a raid? Terrible.
@reallionheart: Yeah, after playing MMO's for a long time i kind of feel that if a group of people want to do something they will figure it out. Does not really matter if they are a random group of people or not. Matchmaking in WoW's flexible raids works fine for example. Also no loot is the stupidest thing ever, who thought it was a good idea to make an mmo not have tons of cool loot?
Ah. Reminds me of the good old days of going into raids blind in World of Warcraft, Star Wars Galaxies, and Everquest. I don't get that anymore now that I have a family, but it was good to walk down the road again in memory without having to kill myself for 100's of hours to do so!
The raid sounds like fun but I'll never experience it. After playing many, many hours over the past week I'm only level 24. Plus I have only two people on my friend's list who play Destiny. I get why there's no matchmaking but it sucks there's a part of the game I paid $60 for that I'll never get to play.
We get articles and stuff on big gaming websites about this Destiny raid, but no articles about world first clears of raids in MMO's that people have been trying to beat for weeks to months?
I get that Destiny is super popular and stuff right now and people are excited, but...meh.
No real loot gotten after 10+ hrs, holy shit. That's just so sad. Good for them, but Bungie needs to iterate and patch up the silly loot tables obviously. My first legendary to open from an engram was for another character. After 50+ hrs., it really makes you question the grinding, especially with D3 out there working better than ever.
This, to me, highlights this game's problems. Why do the major raids have to require 10s of people, 10-15 hours, and 1,600 deaths? I mean that's just "Demon's Souls: The MMO" in my book. I don't have 12 friends that I talk to regularly enough to put together a team for this kind of raid, so I'll likely never see this content, and that's a fundamental problem.
I think this would be a more interesting read if the world first clan was a secondary part of it, and the meat of it was about the raid itself, the mechanics, and the choices Bungie made. As it stands, I don't really care who beat it first and it doesn't really explain anything about why it was so difficult. They died almost 3 times per minute, for what?
"if Destiny was a game that wasn’t hyped up like it was, if Destiny wasn’t a popular game, if it was just a regular game that no one else liked that we enjoyed personally, we would have gone about it the exact same way.”
yeah... no. everything in the article contradicts this.
WoW's world firsts have been at least this intense year after year, and the hardcore raiding community has been imploding due to burnout and hyper-competition, but only when Destiny comes along does Patrick see an interesting story in a world first?
I feel like Patrick should take advantage of his investigative skills and start searching for the fallen-out members of guilds like Ensidia and investigating how hardcore content that continually keeps improving still manages to lose tons of its most dedicated adherents. There's a story there that's way more interesting than this one.
This thought occured to me too. Why is this "FIRST" story worth writing about but other MMOs not?
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