#1 Edited by Video_Game_King (36124 posts) -

I'm only asking this because I don't want to start an editing war over the Kanami Mashita page. I feel like somebody has said something about this before, but I can't remember what or where it was. The only evidence I have either way is the Misuzu Hiiragi, which would suggest that we're allowed to do this. Still, I want a hard-ass ruling.

I also want to mention that this title was a bitch to fit into the 60 character limit.

#2 Edited by Hailinel (23990 posts) -

I'm only asking this because I don't want to start an editing war over the Kanami Mashita page. I feel like somebody has said something about this before, but I can't remember what or where it was. The only evidence I have either way is the Misuzu Hiiragi, which would suggest that we're allowed to do this. Still, I want a hard-ass ruling.

I also want to mention that this title was a bitch to fit into the 60 character limit.

Hiiragi actually appears in Persona 4 visibly. Kanami does not. Kanami is only mentioned in dialogue.

#3 Posted by Video_Game_King (36124 posts) -

@hailinel:

Misuzu Hiiragi is a popular enka singer that appears in Persona 4, though she is never met in person and her involvement in the narrative is removed from most of the key events.

The wiki page I linked in the first post
#4 Posted by Hailinel (23990 posts) -

@hailinel:

Misuzu Hiiragi is a popular enka singer that appears in Persona 4, though she is never met in person and her involvement in the narrative is removed from most of the key events.

The wiki page I linked in the first post

Again, she visibly appears in the game. Kanami does not. If we were to follow what you're proposing, we'd have to add game "appearances" for any time a character is obliquely mentioned in dialogue but never seen or heard in any capacity during the course of a game.

#5 Posted by Video_Game_King (36124 posts) -

@hailinel:

That's what I'm asking: should we be able to do this or no? Besides, Kanami most likely exercises greater importance over Persona 4's plot than does Hiiragi; the former affects Rise's character in her Social Link, whereas Hiiragi only exists to corroborate Namatame's alibi. Or something like that.

#6 Edited by Hailinel (23990 posts) -

@hailinel:

That's what I'm asking: should we be able to do this or no? Besides, Kanami most likely exercises greater importance over Persona 4's plot than does Hiiragi; the former affects Rise's character in her Social Link, whereas Hiiragi only exists to corroborate Namatame's alibi. Or something like that.

...Are you serious?

Hiiragi is directly tied to characters in the murder investigation and was actually the instigator that cost Namatame his job. Kanami is just a character mentioned in Rise's Social Link; not everyone that plays the game sees the scenes in which she's mentioned and she has no actual bearing on the momentum of the plot.

Again, what you're asking would be if, in a Mario game, Wart should be added to the game page if the only reference to him at all is a snarky comment by Bowser; no visuals or anything of that nature, just Wart's name in dialogue. In what way would that legitimize Wart being added to that game page?

#7 Posted by Video_Game_King (36124 posts) -

@hailinel:

This is essentially the edit war that I wanted to avoid. Also, I probably should've mentioned that the characters exercise some influence on the plot, but don't physically show up. Kanami would count since she's a catalyst for a major part of Rise's character arc; Wart wouldn't because he's just a reference. For another example: Cigyun plays a very important role within the plot of Seisen no Keifu. Hell, without her, Manfroy would probably spend his days utterly bored, nothing to do. But by the time the game begins, she's dead, so of course she can't physically appear. Also, I think a Gears of War character factors into this? I can't remember precisely who, though, so don't hold me to it.

#8 Posted by Hailinel (23990 posts) -

@hailinel:

This is essentially the edit war that I wanted to avoid. Also, I probably should've mentioned that the characters exercise some influence on the plot, but don't physically show up. Kanami would count since she's a catalyst for a major part of Rise's character arc; Wart wouldn't because he's just a reference. For another example: Cigyun plays a very important role within the plot of Seisen no Keifu. Hell, without her, Manfroy would probably spend his days utterly bored, nothing to do. But by the time the game begins, she's dead, so of course she can't physically appear. Also, I think a Gears of War character factors into this? I can't remember precisely who, though, so don't hold me to it.

Does Cigyun have a character page? No. She's a part of Manfroy's background, so at best, she'd be mentioned in the game's wiki page under the story section. Again, Kanami does not appear in the game. That is the key point I keep making that you ignore. It has been that way in the wiki since day one. The fact that you are bringing this up as a question now, after five years, is bizarre.

#9 Posted by Video_Game_King (36124 posts) -

@hailinel said:

Again, Kanami does not appear in the game.

Neither does Hiiraga. By that logic, Mario appears in Ocarina of Time. (And maybe the Arwing, but that's something else entirely.)

The fact that you are bringing this up as a question now, after five years, is bizarre.

I've brought it up before. Quite a few times. In fact, I've been looking for a definite answer for a while. This is really the only time I've been this explicit (IE made a thread) about it.

#10 Edited by Hailinel (23990 posts) -

@hailinel said:

Again, Kanami does not appear in the game.

Neither does Hiiraga. By that logic, Mario appears in Ocarina of Time. (And maybe the Arwing, but that's something else entirely.)

Hiiragi appears in the game by virtue of the fact that her physical appearance is acknowledged, even if she doesn't speak or have an active role in the story; she's not a stained-glass easter egg.

#11 Edited by Video_Game_King (36124 posts) -

@hailinel:

Then what about Anri from Fire Emblem? Canonically occupies the same world as the main characters and is physically addressed through the art work like Hiiragi, but is dead long before the events of the game like Cigyun.

#12 Posted by Hailinel (23990 posts) -

@hailinel:

Then what about Anri from Fire Emblem? Canonically occupies the same world as the main characters and is physically addressed through the art work like Hiiragi, but is dead long before the events of the game like Cigyun.

Is that artwork in game? Then yes, he should have a character page. It's no different than Elena having a character page despite being dead long before Path of Radiance starts.

#13 Edited by Video_Game_King (36124 posts) -

@hailinel:

Didn't she technically appear in Radiant Dawn, via flashback? Or was she dead when that happened? Either way, Anri appears in-game, as Spriter's Resource can attest. Still, this doesn't entirely solve the problem facing us.

Also, really wish one of the mods or staff would settle this damn thing once and for all.

#14 Posted by Hailinel (23990 posts) -

@hailinel:

Didn't she technically appear in Radiant Dawn, via flashback? Or was she dead when that happened? Either way, Anri appears in-game, as Spriter's Resource can attest. Still, this doesn't entirely solve the problem facing us.

Also, really wish one of the mods or staff would settle this damn thing once and for all.

She was dead in the flashback.

And there is no problem facing us. The rule, as has been commonly understood, is that if a character has a physical presence of some nature in a game, then they have an appearance that qualifies listing on their character page. If they are only mentioned in dialogue, that does not qualify.

#15 Edited by Video_Game_King (36124 posts) -

@hailinel said:

The rule, as has been commonly understood

Where? By who? That's exactly the problem.

#16 Edited by Hailinel (23990 posts) -

@hailinel said:

The rule, as has been commonly understood

Where? By who? That's exactly the problem.

By virtue of the fact that you are the only person to make a fuss of it in five years.

#17 Posted by Video_Game_King (36124 posts) -