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#1 Edited by darkpower (96 posts) -

I've been following this whole issue about Anita Sarkeesian for a while now for my YouTube channel, and the one thing I saw continued to be asked on Neogaf was where Part 2 of her Tropes Versus Women in Video Games series was. I wasn't that concerned about it then, and I wanted to post my response to her first video (which I did finally), but I also posted something voicing me asking where the next part is.

It's been nearly two months now with no word from her anywhere about where part two is, or what's the hell is even going on with the series. All there is is either continued gloating about how well her first part has done, and her recent interview on CNN International (which her reaction to one question told me all I had to know about how she might've actually WANTED those rape and pillage messages to be sent to her). Nothing yet about when we can expect part two as of the date and time I post this forum thread.

I don't intend to respark the misogyny and sexism discussion (though I'm open TO discussing it), but I'm wondering what happens if the series ends up becoming "orphaned" (abandoned). She raised nearly $160k off of Kickstarter for the project, mostly off the back of the vitriol she got when she announced it. I glanced at Kickstarter's guidelines, and as far as I read when I glanced it over, nothing I could see that had anything to do with what they do about those that raise money then never deliver on their ends of the bargain. It might be somewhere there (and seeing as that's sadly a necessary issue with charities - you'll get your scammers ruining it for other, legit people - I can't imagine something NOT being there in case this were to happen).

From what I have experienced from making my own videos on a regular basis, it is time consuming (but worth it: I have a condenser mic and pop filter on its way to be able to do more of them without the plosions). I understand that she could be hitting a snag with the production process (she's working a new graphics package and possibly new equipment), but I noticed that if people like TotalBiscuit or Jessie Cox hit a brick wall with one of their projects, they'll say something about it (TB will always let us know if and why there won't be a Content Patch episode for that weekday, for example). She could easily get on Facebook and address the situation so we at least know that something is actually happening to continue the series. But nothing for two months now (oh, but she's got a Tumblr page with 275 examples of the Damsel in Distress trope being used in games...no exaggeration).

So yeah, what do you guys think? I personally think this has to be addressed in a way that raises awareness about not just the absence of the rest of the series, but perhaps how Kickstarter can deal with possible scamming (don't take that the wrong way: I'm not accusing her of actively scamming Kickstarter backers...yet). I know people might be worn out on this subject, but this might be a new layer into not necessarily the sexism in gaming discussion, but about Anita's involvement in all of this.

#2 Edited by BaconGames (3574 posts) -

My take is that Anita seems like a feminist first and internet broadcaster person second and in my mind isn't sweating the second bit too much given how toxic the reaction has been. She probably isn't someone already immersed in the internet business like TotalBiscuit and co. are so it's not something she probably feels that compelled to do. I wouldn't read too much into it and wouldn't be surprised if in like 2 or 3 months it just shows up somewhere on the internet.

While I have a wealth of things to say about her approach to things like this, it almost doesn't matter because it's also pissing off the people who aren't worth pleasing anyway and I think in two sides going at it, the middle ground will finally gain enough confidence to have their voice and move things along toward something different. If out of all this one person who isn't like Anita but otherwise wouldn't have felt confident enough to do or say something about gaming in general and their experience, than it would have all been worth it.

Besides, I'm someone who openly welcomes this kind of crazy just to see what happens and where we go, which I guess inherently requires people like Anita to stir up the pot even if, as I said, in a way somewhat anathema to my perspectives.

#3 Edited by Oldirtybearon (4881 posts) -

My guess is that everyone wised up to her nonsense and ignored her, so her videos didn't have the same "world destroying" effect as her kickstarter did. No hype, no press. No press, no publicity. If there's no publicity involved, then there's no way for her to launch her career as a... pundit? Critic? Anyone know if this woman has a real job? Anywho, people saw what she had to say and either A) agreed with it or B) realized she's full of shit and not worth listening to.

So my guess is if the series is orphaned, nobody will care and the people that do will quietly judge those who funded the kickstarter in the first place. As it should be.

#4 Posted by probablytuna (3822 posts) -

If the series stops at one episode and she keeps that $160K her credibility is blown. I doubt she will risk that just to keep the money.

#5 Posted by Ravenlight (8011 posts) -

Finishing the video series seems like the harshest response she could send to her critics. I'm still on #teamreal for this one.

#6 Posted by Rainbowkisses (472 posts) -

While I have no real investment in the videos, I'm not sure anything can really be done if she doesn't release the rest. I will be pleasantly surprised if she actually bothers to finish the videos. As far as Sarkeesian communicating with her fans if something goes wrong, I find that to be unlikely. She seems to have given up on any online communication after the whole harassment fiasco.

May I ask, what is your youtube channel? It's not spam if I request it.

#7 Posted by Milkman (17314 posts) -

BUCKLE UP MOTHERFUCKERS 20 PAGE THREAD HERE WE GO

#8 Posted by BaconGames (3574 posts) -

@milkman said:

BUCKLE UP MOTHERFUCKERS 20 PAGE THREAD HERE WE GO

*click* TAKE ME TO DOG CITY

#9 Posted by TruthTellah (9472 posts) -

It has never been her style to really keep people informed on her progress with releasing the videos. I imagine it will just turn up one day. And considering how each one gets her even more coverage, I see no reason why she wouldn't keep posting the videos. She makes more money and gains more fame with each video. I figured it would be one video every few months, as it leaves just enough time for people to forget, and then boom, another video to capture headlines.

You really shouldn't be worrying yourself about it. It's not worth your or anyone else's time.

#10 Posted by McGhee (6075 posts) -

What happens? She lives on those suckers' money for a few years and is forgotten in the process.

#11 Posted by casper_ (908 posts) -

i've actually never seen the first video so i missed that whole controversy. i'd imagine it takes some time to put together a 160k project with what is probably a very small team.

#12 Edited by TruthTellah (9472 posts) -

@mcghee said:

What happens? She lives on those suckers' money for a few years and is forgotten in the process.

She really has more to gain from releasing those videos. The first was very popular, and they just keep the response going even longer. And that adds to her continued notoriety. People will continue to respond to her and what she posts, and she'll continue to grow her influence and financial state.

#13 Edited by Clonedzero (4196 posts) -

I saw her first video it was fine. I didn't agree with it fully, but it was mostly an opinion piece. She seems like a hardcore feminist but the gross hate she's getting kinda makes me sympathetic regardless of what her motives may be.

She's a feminist gamer, good for her. Personally i dont give a shit. If other people enjoy that sort of discussion and analysis then they're free to support her videos. Theres nothing wrong with that. I'm not a fan, others are and thats fine with me.

#14 Edited by GalacticPunt (1106 posts) -

@darkpower said:

her reaction to one question told me all I had to know about how she might've actually WANTED those rape and pillage messages to be sent to her.

So you're basically saying "She was asking for it." *sigh*

The weird thing about Kickstarter is it is neither a charity or an investment. There are no protections in place. There is nothing legally binding that says that someone MUST deliver on the backer awards they promised, or even finish the project that they pitched. Any Kickstarter has the potential to be a scam, amazingly nothing has turned out that way yet. (Some projects did burn through the money and fail in an honest way) I actually think the episodic "spiritual successor to Eternal Darkness" will be the first actual scam...

Sarkeesian is not a YouTube Let's Play-er. There was not an expectation for daily content. Sure, it's silly for talking head videos to take this long, but the obscene influx of cash at the start of this project offers her that luxury. She can now afford to spend a LOT of time on each video, and be the Stanley Kubrick of internet punditry.

Her boring series will probably get finished. It might not. If not her reputation will be wrecked, but we're far from that day. She doesn't owe her backers, much less the Men's Rights Advocates goon squad, regular updates on her progress.

#15 Edited by TheSouthernDandy (3924 posts) -

I can't bring myself to care about anything related to her anymore. Her first video was fine. If she comes out with another one, great. If she takes the money and runs, great. I'm not trying to dismiss this topic but for me personally if I never hear about her again that would be a-ok.

#16 Edited by MEATBALL (3473 posts) -

My take is that Anita seems like a feminist first and internet broadcaster person second

What does this even mean?

#17 Edited by TheSouthernDandy (3924 posts) -

@meatball said:
@bacongames said:

My take is that Anita seems like a feminist first and internet broadcaster person second

What does this even mean?

I'm assuming it means she's better at talking about her beliefs then putting together web content in a timely fashion.

#18 Edited by Animasta (14719 posts) -

is sarkeesian an Armenian name? it seems Armenian to me but I'm not entirely sure and I have wondered about this for a long time

#19 Edited by darkpower (96 posts) -

@mcghee said:

What happens? She lives on those suckers' money for a few years and is forgotten in the process.

Hopefully this does raise a question in Kickstarter's guidelines in which someone who posts a project does with the money what they say they will do. Probably one of the bigger things that could come of this because everyone who needs money for something seems to be using that site anymore.

I actually remember the first time I heard of it: Jessica Martin (she's the woman who voiced Samus in Metroid: Other M) was trying to raise money to make a short film called "For Patrick". The film was very well done and had a good bit of emotional power behind it. Proof that Kickstarter projects gives us good things, but we then see that not everything is rosy (I'd rather fund something Jessica Martin was making than anything Anita was doing).

#20 Edited by Nekroskop (2786 posts) -

Please just let this die. She's scammed a fuckload of money from white knights, gotten famous, traveled the world and gotten tons of google money. Please just let her fade into obscurity...

#21 Posted by Animasta (14719 posts) -

Please just let this die. She's scammed a fuckload of money from white knights, gotten famous, traveled the world and gotten tons of google money. Please just let her fade into obscurity...

what does google money mean?

#22 Posted by Nekroskop (2786 posts) -

@animasta said:

@ahaisthisourchance said:

Please just let this die. She's scammed a fuckload of money from white knights, gotten famous, traveled the world and gotten tons of google money. Please just let her fade into obscurity...

what does google money mean?

google it...

#23 Posted by joshthebear (2700 posts) -

#24 Edited by Animasta (14719 posts) -

@ahaisthisourchance said:

@animasta said:

@ahaisthisourchance said:

Please just let this die. She's scammed a fuckload of money from white knights, gotten famous, traveled the world and gotten tons of google money. Please just let her fade into obscurity...

what does google money mean?

google it...

well I say she saves puppies and kittens with the power of ultra feminism and her sweet earrings.

(you don't get to say things and then just blow off people who ask you about said things)

(also you don't get to say 'stop talking about her'while also railing against her, decide on one thing or the other)

@joshthebear: knows what's up

#25 Posted by Nekroskop (2786 posts) -

@animasta I get to say whatever the fuck I want.

To answer your question: Google money=youtube money

#26 Posted by casper_ (908 posts) -
#27 Edited by TruthTellah (9472 posts) -

@animasta said:

@ahaisthisourchance said:

Please just let this die. She's scammed a fuckload of money from white knights, gotten famous, traveled the world and gotten tons of google money. Please just let her fade into obscurity...

what does google money mean?

"Google Money" is the Rap Man's newest jam.

http://i.imgur.com/YaEiokx.gif

#28 Edited by Oldirtybearon (4881 posts) -

@galacticpunt said:

@darkpower said:

her reaction to one question told me all I had to know about how she might've actually WANTED those rape and pillage messages to be sent to her.

So you're basically saying "She was asking for it." *sigh*

That's not what @darkpower meant and you know it. Her intention was to manipulate people by poking a bear with a stick and turning around to say "those bears are so mean guys help me fight the bears". People do this kind of thing all the time, especially when they have publicity and (in Anita's case) a crapton of money to earn off of other people's sympathy.

#29 Edited by darkpower (96 posts) -
@darkpower said:

her reaction to one question told me all I had to know about how she might've actually WANTED those rape and pillage messages to be sent to her.

So you're basically saying "She was asking for it." *sigh*

You should've seen how she reacted to one of the questions she got from the CNN International interviewer (don't know her name). She asked "What do you say to the people that say "don't feed the trolls"?"

She gave a physical recoil, gave a smirk as if to say "how dare you ask me that", and then seemed to want to change the subject rather fast. I wouldn't say that she was "asking for it", but rather baiting it. I find it rather odd, too, that she doesn't mention anyone that wants to debate her civilly.

Here's the interview I'm talking about, by the way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNyxq-gqFNU

#30 Edited by Animasta (14719 posts) -

@ahaisthisourchance said:

@animasta I get to say whatever the fuck I want.

To answer your question: Google money=youtube money

yeah well if people didn't watch her videos to comment about how she's a feminist whore cunt bitch or whatever, then this thread wouldn't exist.

also nice hostility! it really makes me want to hear more things you have to say.

also thanks @casper_

#31 Edited by Nekroskop (2786 posts) -

@animasta No problem. I'll be here all week.

Also: Nice strawman there

#32 Edited by darkpower (96 posts) -

@rainbowkisses said:

While I have no real investment in the videos, I'm not sure anything can really be done if she doesn't release the rest. I will be pleasantly surprised if she actually bothers to finish the videos. As far as Sarkeesian communicating with her fans if something goes wrong, I find that to be unlikely. She seems to have given up on any online communication after the whole harassment fiasco.

May I ask, what is your youtube channel? It's not spam if I request it.

It shouldn't be, but I posted it in my bio (I'm no expert on this site yet, so pardon my ignorance on how to get to my bio, even if it's a skip and a jump away). I know I'm not as skilled as TB or Jessie, but I'm trying to see what my niche is right now. I want to buy a SSD so I can record game footage without the lag (I'm hating Fraps anymore the way it does videos, and I'm still learning DXTory).

Also, I know my voice isn't perfect. I know I sound like a chipmunk on acid (blame it on speakers never liking my voice and me having a few pronunciation problems since I was young), so....yeah.

Oh, and...I already reached the new user post limit. I'm guessing I'm gonna spend a LOT of time on this site posting stuff if it didn't take me long to reach the new user daily cap.

#33 Edited by Animasta (14719 posts) -

@animasta No problem. I'll be here all week.

Also: Nice strawman there

what strawman? If it wasn't for the way too extreme response to her kickstarter, we literally would have stopped talking about it. because most people are angry about how she got so much money and squandered it when we wouldn't have cared if she got 5 (which was the original price) or even 10k

fun fact: I have stopped caring about her, for a long time now, but I don't go into threads to whine about her while also saying I wish people would stop talking about her. You are inspiring more comments about her with your comment

If you really don't care about her, put up or shut up... wait, I guess that'd be shut up or put up. I come in these threads to offer much needed levity to the proceedings

#34 Edited by Nekroskop (2786 posts) -
#35 Edited by Hailinel (25205 posts) -

@animasta said:

@ahaisthisourchance said:

@animasta No problem. I'll be here all week.

Also: Nice strawman there

what strawman? If it wasn't for the way too extreme response to her kickstarter, we literally would have stopped talking about it. because most people are angry about how she got so much money and squandered it when we wouldn't have cared if she got 5 (which was the original price) or even 10k

fun fact: I have stopped caring about her, for a long time now, but I don't go into threads to whine about her while also saying I wish people would stop talking about her. You are inspiring more comments about her with your comment

If you really don't care about her, put up or shut up... wait, I guess that'd be shut up or put up. I come in these threads to offer much needed levity to the proceedings

If you stopped caring about her, you'd stop coming into these threads. You seem to care just as much as the vocal haters do.

And after two months of radio silence following the first (and so far only) episode, it's legitimate to question when the next one will come, or when we'll at least hear anything from her regarding it.

#36 Posted by themangalist (1747 posts) -

I really REALLY don't want to say it but her face just annoys me so gawddamn much. I'm so glad YouTube can't suggest any of her videos to me no more since she stopped working on it.

#37 Posted by Animasta (14719 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@animasta said:

@ahaisthisourchance said:

@animasta No problem. I'll be here all week.

Also: Nice strawman there

what strawman? If it wasn't for the way too extreme response to her kickstarter, we literally would have stopped talking about it. because most people are angry about how she got so much money and squandered it when we wouldn't have cared if she got 5 (which was the original price) or even 10k

fun fact: I have stopped caring about her, for a long time now, but I don't go into threads to whine about her while also saying I wish people would stop talking about her. You are inspiring more comments about her with your comment

If you really don't care about her, put up or shut up... wait, I guess that'd be shut up or put up. I come in these threads to offer much needed levity to the proceedings

If you stopped caring about her, you'd stop coming into these threads. You seem to care just as much as the vocal haters do.

And after two months of radio silence following the first (and so far only) episode, it's legitimate to question when the next one will come, or when we'll at least hear anything from her regarding it.

or maybe I'm just bored and comment too much? but then I'm still caring in some way, I know, so I'll just say I care more about the response to her than anita herself

if the OP wants to make a thread wondering where the other videos are, good for him! I was talking with someone who doesn't want to her about her ever again, which is a completely different thing.

#38 Posted by Karkarov (3273 posts) -

I am still boggled that people care to begin with. She is a feminist who made a video about sexism in video games. How is any of this news, ground breaking, or even remotely surprising/interesting to anybody? This issue has been around since the 90's it is not going anywhere and no internet pundit has anything to add to it.

#39 Posted by darkpower (96 posts) -

@karkarov said:

I am still boggled that people care to begin with. She is a feminist who made a video about sexism in video games. How is any of this news, ground breaking, or even remotely surprising/interesting to anybody? This issue has been around since the 90's it is not going anywhere and no internet pundit has anything to add to it.

I think it was because of the vitriol she got and how THAT got so publicized. If that never happened, then it probably wouldn't have been as overblown.

#40 Edited by DarthOrange (3892 posts) -

I really REALLY don't want to say it but her face just annoys me so gawddamn much. I'm so glad YouTube can't suggest any of her videos to me no more since she stopped working on it.

I don't like the way she presented herself. Those hoop earrings did not go well with that George Lucas flannel. And what was up with that hair? She has over $100,000, the least she could do is get herself a decent shirt and hair style. She seemed like she just woke up in the morning, threw on whatever and got in front of the camera. I bet she didn't even brush her teeth!

#41 Posted by ZeForgotten (10397 posts) -

"Whatever they decide to use their money for is their choice" is usually what the Kickstarter people are saying.
And I say the same, it's her fucking money, let her do with it what she wants.

#42 Edited by EXTomar (4943 posts) -

I haven't tracked or considered the situation at all but I wonder if "the non-response" is due to the fact that no response is going to be satisfactory. It doesn't matter what she says, good or bad or whatever, it is going to cause controversy. If she is behind for legitimate reasons due to the fact she is frankly a novice then she gets roasted. If turns out she needs to cut the episode for editorial reasons she gets roasted. If abandoning everything because NeoGAF made her see the folly of project she gets roasted. There is no outcome that doesn't come away with the internet raging.

Personally I don't see a point in deliberating the situation. I won't lose sleep wondering if there is another video or not. I would like to see another video but I have no stake if another video doesn't happen either.

#43 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

I ate a steak today.

#44 Edited by AlmostSwedish (627 posts) -

My guess is that everyone wised up to her nonsense and ignored her, so her videos didn't have the same "world destroying" effect as her kickstarter did. No hype, no press. No press, no publicity. If there's no publicity involved, then there's no way for her to launch her career as a... pundit? Critic? Anyone know if this woman has a real job? Anywho, people saw what she had to say and either A) agreed with it or B) realized she's full of shit and not worth listening to.

So my guess is if the series is orphaned, nobody will care and the people that do will quietly judge those who funded the kickstarter in the first place. As it should be.

If I remember correctly, the first video passed a million views quite a while ago. So no, I doubt she stopped because no one cared.

It's interesting how paranoid people are on this subject. So people expect her to put a properly researched video once a week? That might have happened of she had only gotten the amount she asked for, but I can understand if she wants to deliver something a little less thrown together when there was so much support for it.

I hope her second video shows up soon. I liked the first one, even though it was a little obvious (but seeing as it treated older examples of a well-known trope, how couldn't it be?)

#45 Posted by TheManiacsGnome (279 posts) -

I'm more curious about the stuff that faces female developers, or the process that makes it difficult for games with female main character to make it through the tubes.

A childhood filled with Mario and Zelda, has made me a monster!

#46 Posted by WeaponBoy (169 posts) -

"Whatever they decide to use their money for is their choice" is usually what the Kickstarter people are saying.

And I say the same, it's her fucking money, let her do with it what she wants.

Seriously. I'm actually a backer of the project and I couldn't care less about her timeline, though I won't claim to speak for anyone else. It's certainly not the worst kickstarter I've ever funded. So far I'm quite happy with the content of the first video and am looking forward to the next one.

As for the lack of explosive...everything after the first video series, well, a large part of that probably has to do with a) the lockdown on comments for the video and b) the fact that this is just the second time around. People have already flipped their shit and after the considerable backlash against the more insane stuff like the flash game, people probably aren't super excited to be associated with it.

Personally, my favourite part of this whole thing have been the people trying to give responses to her video without actually understanding how critical theory works. I've literally seen a video titled 'You forgot about Samus' as though that bears any relation to the Damsel in Distress concept. That's like trying to disprove evolution by pointing at crocodiles.

#47 Edited by themangalist (1747 posts) -

@themangalist said:

I really REALLY don't want to say it but her face just annoys me so gawddamn much. I'm so glad YouTube can't suggest any of her videos to me no more since she stopped working on it.

I don't like the way she presented herself. Those hoop earrings did not go well with that George Lucas flannel. And what was up with that hair? She has over $100,000, the least she could do is get herself a decent shirt and hair style. She seemed like she just woke up in the morning, threw on whatever and got in front of the camera. I bet she didn't even brush her teeth!

I'm so glad you didn't scream "you sexist pig!" and go all serioused at me. And I'm so glad you played along ;)

#48 Edited by TruthTellah (9472 posts) -

@sooty said:

I ate a steak today.

ooo How did you cook it? What kind of seasoning did you use?

I like a good medium done dry rub on the grill. :)

#49 Posted by AlmostSwedish (627 posts) -

Definitely. It seems like many gamers (urk, that word) have just don't have the tools to deal with this kind of criticism. I think Shawn Elliot summarized pretty well in one of his tweets when the first video came out:

"Sexism and insecurity explain some of the attacks on @femfreq. I suspect the rest stems from the fact that for many enthusiasts, the only familiar methods of talking about videogames are forums and reviews that speak to not to thinking conversation partners but to potential consumers.

The tradition of academic cultural criticism is unknown to them entirely, and not knowing what to make of it, they engage it the one way they know how. It's a case of people speaking different languages but confusing the two since, superficially, they sound alike. So just as they circle wagons and ready themselves for war when a review score doesn't speak to their experience or expectation, they confuse constructive critical dialog with a simple assessment of merit.

Which is why they fear that Sarkeesian intends to invalidate their interests whereas anyone with a liberal arts education understands that, to the contrary, she stands to enhance their value by taking them seriously. Bridging that language barrier is important, and more so when your audience is as broad as this one."

I think it's an interesting idea, that traditional video game "criticism" are to blame for the backlash. And in that sense, the series is just another step in how that criticism has evolved over the last few years. It's just to bad that many (or you know, a vocal minority) on the internet seems to think that feminism is either about wanting to castrate all men or general complaining.

#50 Edited by MariachiMacabre (7099 posts) -

Oh hey someone necro'd an Anita thre...Wait. Nope. New one. Fuck this shit I'm out!

Here. Have some Kavinksy to listen to while you all rip eachother to internet pieces, you dogs!

It's a pretty sick track, bros.