Posted by SuicidalSnowman (467 posts) -


GB Community, I need your expertise and help.

 

First of all, what would you call the feature in games where there is no HUD or numerical health bar? 

 

Visualized health? Contectual health?  I searched around the database and found nothing.

 

 

 

Second, and this is more fun, what are some of the best and worst examples of the implementation?

 

For worst, I am thinking Jurassic Park with the cleavage tattoo, or MW2's jam sandwich screen indicator.  Nonetheless, I am sure some better examples are out there, and I know you guys and gals know them.

 

Also, are there any best examples?

#1 Posted by SuicidalSnowman (467 posts) -


GB Community, I need your expertise and help.

 

First of all, what would you call the feature in games where there is no HUD or numerical health bar? 

 

Visualized health? Contectual health?  I searched around the database and found nothing.

 

 

 

Second, and this is more fun, what are some of the best and worst examples of the implementation?

 

For worst, I am thinking Jurassic Park with the cleavage tattoo, or MW2's jam sandwich screen indicator.  Nonetheless, I am sure some better examples are out there, and I know you guys and gals know them.

 

Also, are there any best examples?

#2 Posted by Example1013 (4855 posts) -
#3 Posted by Spoonman671 (4977 posts) -

Worst Implementation- almost every game.
Best Implementation- I greatly prefer Vanquish's bullet-time to the average low-health warning de/saturation, although it does have that too.

#4 Posted by crusader8463 (14744 posts) -

I really enjoyed how health worked in the first Bad Company game. It's a dam shame that they cut it out of BC 2 to make it just like COD. Trying to find cover to pop that syringe, and the 3-4 second s that it took before you could get back to shooting, added a bit of strategy to the health instead of just duck and count to five.

#5 Posted by Commisar123 (1852 posts) -

The best is Dead Space and Dead Space 2

#6 Posted by BraveToaster (12636 posts) -
@Spoonman671 said:

Best Implementation- I greatly prefer Vanquish's bullet-time to the average low-health warning de/saturation, although it does have that too. "
I agree.
#7 Posted by SuicidalSnowman (467 posts) -
@example1013: Thanks, I was looking at low health, but wasn't entirely sure if that was the one or if it just meant "a game that in some way informed the player of low health."

@Spoonman671: @Axxol:
Thanks.  I read up on it (having never played it) and I see that bullet time activates when your health is low.  Question: Does it regenerate?  And if so, how do you access this? Stand still, or simply not take damage?

@crusader8463: First of all, I assume you mean this game, and not this one.  Second, I'm assuming that means health kits?  Also, how does the game show you when you are damaged?  The article doesn't say much.

@Commisar123: I've heard that those games are good about the non-HUD integrations, thanks for the tip.
#8 Posted by iam3green (14368 posts) -

i like to see a bar or number saying what your health is. back in the day that was the way it was. they changed it to flash screens. you had to pretty much stand back and wait for it to recharge and then jump back into action.

#9 Posted by crusader8463 (14744 posts) -
@SuicidalSnowman: Yes Battlefield. It does the red tinting iirc, but the only way to heal is to switch to a needle and use it. Look for some gameplay videos on youtube.
#10 Posted by StarvingGamer (8988 posts) -
@SuicidalSnowman: As for Vanquish yeah standard stuff, don't get hit for a while and your health comes back. You can run around as much as you'd like.
#11 Posted by SuicidalSnowman (467 posts) -
@crusader8463: Great.  Will do, thanks so much.

@iam3green: Hehe, I hear ya.  I was thinking of taking a detailed look of how games are handling it, and was looking for some starting points of good and bad examples.  It kind of reminds me of when analog buttons were first developed, and in an interview someone working on Tekken said, (paraphrasing) "Obviously, the push hard for a strong attack and light for a quick attack is only for beginners.  The pros require more precision."  Numbers and charts are useful because they display more information.
#12 Posted by crusader8463 (14744 posts) -
@SuicidalSnowman: Just watched the video review GB did, and it looks like it actually tints black.   
Loading Video...
#13 Posted by Example1013 (4855 posts) -
@SuicidalSnowman: Pro tip for looking for shit in GB's database: if you can't think of the name of a concept, think of a game that has that concept. Go to that game's page, and scroll down until you find the "Related Pages" section (it'll be on the far right side of the screen). Click on the "Concepts" tab to see a list of all concepts that are linked to that game.

I did just that on Modern Warfare 2's page to find those concepts.

It also helps if you pick a really popular game, because one that's really well-known is more likely to be really well-fleshed-out. Which is why I used Modern Warfare 2.
#14 Posted by Grumbel (1010 posts) -
@SuicidalSnowman said:

First of all, what would you call the feature in games where there is no HUD or numerical health bar?  

In the general sense, I just call that "HUD-less", when it comes to some specific implementation, just call it by that "one-hit kills", "rechargable health", etc.

 Second, and this is more fun, what are some of the best and worst examples of the implementation?

I think the best examples are those where damage actually matters and isn't just your energy bar moved onto some object in the world like Dead Space does. in Resident Evil 1 you would limb around when low on health, in Operation Flashpoint you couldn't stand up and only crouch, in Another World a single hit would quite literally blast the flesh of your bones and in X-Wing or in Tie-Fighter systems of your space craft could fail and would take time repairing. Basically low-health in all those cases mattered, it wasn't just an arbitrary number, but actual gameplay impact you could feel.

I don't mind integrating the HUD into the game world, having a ammo counter on the gun instead of the HUD can make a lot of sense, but when it comes to health it is often taken to far and into the ridiculous, having the screen go all red and have dirt all over it is annoying and repetitive, not immersive. Instead give me different effects and make it at least somewhat realistic, make a shot in the arm have a different effect then a shot in the lack or against the body armor or helmet. Generally speaking, I think these days developers focus to much on making the player not fail, when instead they should work on making failure interesting.
#15 Posted by SuicidalSnowman (467 posts) -
@Grumbel: Interesting thoughts.  Also, thanks for those examples.  I hadn't thought too much about games where damage limited what you could do.

@example1013: That's actually a pretty good idea.  I do most of the quests that way, but never thought of doing it for concepts I was looking for.  I'll check it out.

@crusader8463: It actually seems to me like the black tint comes in everytime you take damage, not when you hit a certain level?
#16 Posted by valrog (3741 posts) -
@Commisar123 said:
" The best is Dead Space and Dead Space 2 "
Agreed. Simple, yet effective. Even if it's a small detail, I simply loved its realization.
#17 Edited by WalkerTR77 (1524 posts) -
@SuicidalSnowman: I would say "Contextual hud/health" is the right term. Dead space for example, communicates the health of the player in the context of the gameworld, i.e. the RIG bodysuits that characters wear. I suppose you could always mention the Doom face as a progenitor for this concept, so far as the onscreen face became more battered and bloody as player health decreased. 


This is what ^ I'm on about.

#18 Posted by SuicidalSnowman (467 posts) -

@WalkerTR77:

Wow, great find that had completely slipped my mind.  That is an awesome early example.

 

As for the name of the concept, not too shabby there.

#19 Posted by Snoky6 (2 posts) -

I'm actually writing a paper on visualizing health for using them in Fight 'em up games.

I also started searching into databases but its a dead end. So I just started to play all the games I have and watch gameplays on youtube.

Got to say that Knights Contract (http://www.giantbomb.com/knights-contract/61-31375/ ) has a rare health system: the main character is immortal but his sidekick (witch) does has health and if she's dead, its end game.

My worst one was until now GTA Vice: that little pinky bar was way to small but ok to use in his gameplay. But I ignored it so it had no use.

Also games I included: Doom, Dead Space, COD, Never Dead, American McGee’s Alice, Minecraft, Kingdom Hearts (sidekicks), etc.

#20 Posted by Canteu (2848 posts) -

@Snoky6: Dead space has a health bar. It's on his back.

#21 Posted by SuicidalSnowman (467 posts) -

@Snoky6: I'm really interested in this. Would love to read it when you are done.

#22 Posted by d0rks (83 posts) -

@Snoky6 said:

I'm actually writing a paper on visualizing health for using them in Fight 'em up games.

I also started searching into databases but its a dead end. So I just started to play all the games I have and watch gameplays on youtube.

Several games use the condition of (player) characters' clothing or armor to display their health, without additional - or any - HUD elements like healthbars or -circles.

Some of these games are hidden on the Destructible Clothing page, for example: El Shaddai and Malicious.

Not sure how useful or functional that mechanic would be in the 'Fight 'em' up genre though.

#23 Posted by Village_Guy (2757 posts) -

We need more games with segmented regenerative health - one of the best ways to make health in my opinion - although it is hard to make without a proper indicator on the HUD.

As for the worst, I certainly have to agree with Trespasser for worst health, not only do you have turn the camera to see your health, but you also end up looking like a pervert and at the same time you can't see where any enemies might be...