I'm getting tired of GB's dismissive attitude towards the new consoles

@crommi: I would argue that COVID is actually helping the sales because people find themselves at home with extra money that was originally intended for vacations and social events that have now all been cancelled.

It depends on what industry you're in. There's currently record-high unemployment, and commission-based sales people aren't making any money. Many people are wondering if they're still going to have a roof over their head by the end of the year. If you find yourself stuck at home with extra money, then you are lucky.

@kcin: The one thing I don’t get with the backlash over performance options in games is that most games I have played don’t really surface the options to you. Like, the dev sets whatever they prefer as default and you’re good to go. The options are only there for folks who want to tinker.

I myself do prefer to tinker, and often like to switch modes. Like in Forza Horizon 4 on the 1X, I typically keep it to 1080p/60 when I’m racing or trying to achieve something, but then I’ll switch it to 4K/30 when I’m cruising around and snapping photos. I like that the game gives me both options, but they are completely ignorable for anyone who doesn’t want to mess with it.

It gives me some comfort to know that even though we are in the middle of a global pandemic, America's democracy is weeks from falling, and the west coast is -literally- on fire, that we still have "GB hates XYZ" threads. A familiar port in a storm.

OP's not wrong that there hasn't been a lot of excitement from the crew. Neutral doesn't necessarily mean they're down on them, it's just kinda... there.

Why do you need them to be excited? I legitimately don't get this.

Maybe look for something deeper than validation of your consumer choices.

It's really easy to not be excited for things nowadays. I don't blame them.

Honestly, if you're asking me, the absolute best way to play games (besides PC, which I won't linger on) is playing old consoles right at the end of their generation. There's so many PS4/XB1 games for real cheap right now; after a year or so of the next gen even newer stuff like TLOU2 and Ghost of Tsushima will be real cheap. By then, your local library will be chock full of games to play for absolutely free. From every gen from PS2 to the Wii U this is how I did it. So-called "patient gaming" is great; it lets you wait out the hype and see what games really stand the test of time. Just think about how many games that dominate twitter and podcasts for a week and then no one ever brings up a year and half later. The biggest downside is, of course, if you're only interested in online multiplayer games. It doesn't apply to me but I get that'd be a huge deal breaker.

But besides that, the only downside is that you can't play every AAA release along with all the gaming podcasts every week. But buying new releases at 60 USD (70, soon) is a pretty steep price just for that, imo. Until stuff is like two or so generations old, most everything only gets cheaper: the controllers, the games, the consoles themselves.

Anyway, here's my definitive ranking of THE BEST WAYS TO PLAY GAMES

1. PC. The largest and cheapest library. The most customizable by far, the widest array of compatible peripherals. Decades of games with emulation. Mods, cheats. The best sales. Never having to wait for HD remasters. Ultra-indie games whose devs could never afford console devkits/cert, fan games, fan translations, romhacks. Easiest place to get and play delisted games like Forza Horizon 3, Platinum Games' Transformers: Devastation, or Telltale's whole catalogue. PC fans are annoying, but it's partially because the platform really is that cool. It's hard to go back to the walled-garden of consoles. PC gaming on a TV doesn't work for every living space, but's easier now than ever. (It's how I play almost everything!) Plugging in a laptop to a TV is a little clunky, but there are apps that let you use your phone as a mouse.

Of course, PCs can be really expensive. I still think playing games on an older, cheap PC is amazing. Check around for business getting rid of optiplex PCs. You can find them for real cheap (try college surplus stores, facebook marketplace, craigslist), add an older GPU (and maybe an SSD) and you've got yourself a machine that can play more games than any one console in existence.

2. Consoles at the end of their generation, especially if you can game-share with a friend. Cheap games and peripherals. Lots of people getting rid the old system and their games for cheap to get the new one. Check out games for free from your library! Listen to old game podcasts to fall asleep at night!

3. DS with a flash cart/Soft-modded Wii. The Wii and the DS are probably the two cheapest consoles out there currently. With the Wii, you can play Wii and Gamecube games off a hard drive, play homebrew games, and emulate everything up to Genesis/Super Nintendo (including Virtual Boy!). It's real easy to hook up to a CRT! The DS flash cart can store 300 DS games and emulate Gameboy & Gameboy Color (you can do other stuff if you're fine with frameskip). A soft-modded PSP is also real cool, as is a 3DS, but they're not quite as cheap as Wii/DS.

4. Analogue Pocket with a dock, probably

5. Android phone with a bluetooth controller. All you need is Retroarch, Golf on Mars, and Ridiculous Fishing and you're set for life. I use one of those Wee gamepads, which is okay. Depending on how much you use your phone the rest of the day for other things this might be less appealing.

HONORABLE MENTION: The Nintendo Switch 2, probably

That is really not my argument at all. You don’t see my calling for more excitement anywhere in the OP or in the replies. But at this point I should probably just add an edit to the OP, because I clearly did not explain what I meant well enough.

@dragon_puncher:Thanks for the long reply and reading through my post, I know that was a lot of text!

To elaborate on the last, most confrontational point I made with some examples -- this mildly irritating cycle has popped up. (Specific examples spoiler blocked.)

TL;DR The discussion has gone, in some form or another, over and over:

1. "I think the crew is too dismissive towards new consoles."

2. "Well, they have reason to not be excited."

3. "But I'm not saying they should be excited, I'm saying they should be less dismissive."

(Optional 4. "But isn't being less dismissive the same as having more excitement?"

Optional 5. "No, it's not having more excitement, it's having opinions on the show other than dismissive."

Optional 6. "Aren't opinions other than dismissive varying degrees of excitement?"

Optional 7. "No, it's having more nuance."

Optional 8. AM I GOING INSANE!?)

You use the language of rationality, logic, discussion, nuance, but the very premise of your argument is an emotional one, a wish (because you do use the word "wish") that the GB crew would be more enthusiastic or have more people on the show who are enthusiastic about the new consoles. "I'm getting tired of GB's dismissive attitude towards the new consoles." And that's not a bad thing, but you keep insisting you're not asking for a thing you're clearly asking for -- even if that ask is not explicitly typed out to be quoted.

Sorry for the wall of text (again), I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just trying to point out how the things you're saying and the way you're talking are confusing a whooooole lot of people on the thread.

There's definitely been a change in the last decade about how consoles are marketed. It's solely on games now rather than tech demos and pushing features. I guess that comes with the leaps console generations used to cover.

I think that its hard to have a nuanced conversation when the people having the conversation don't have any info to talk about, the console developers have said almost nothing all year, it took 9 months to get a price and date for both consoles, it took 8 months for Sony to show the PlayStation, it took 9 months for Microsoft to acknowledge they had a cheaper box.

Covid really screwed things up, in any other console launch year, the crew would get hands on with the games, controller and boxes at trade shows, they would have an opinion on the new controllers becuase Ubisoft would use them to demo the new AC, they would get to see how the SSDs actually matter and how the boxes perform with different games.

Because of Covid, the guys don't have any 1st hand experience, all they have is the lines that the Console sellers are putting out on social media, "the games play and look better than ever" but games all look and perform differently. Its no shock that the guys may not be excited for $500+ consoles that are marketed as "they play your old games better".

This may change 6 months from now, as the guys get hands on experience with the boxes/games and more games come out that actually take advantage of the actual advancements of the new consoles.

I would also argue contrarian conversation for the sake of "nuanced conversation" is a bad thing, if all the guys feel the same way about a given topic, then there isn't a reason to argue the other side for the sake of it.

@theoracleofgame:

First of all, it's absolutely fine. I do not feel like you are being a jerk at all. I don't know if I seem like I have thin skin here, but I try my best to listen to people's arguments and see how they line up with my own. If I disagree I'm not afraid to say so, but it does not bother me if people don't agree. If I did, I would just have shut this down immediately.

Which kinda goes nicely into the next point. As I wrote a couple of posts above, the OP clearly didn't communicate well enough what I actually meant. I cut my ending short because it was getting so damn long already, but it's pretty clear that was not the right call and that's on me. So I'm going to add an edit to clear some things up.

I don't think having more opinions and viewpoints in a discussion is the same as asking for more excitement, but I guess in some ways we end up moving into more of a philosophical debate here. Like I have said earlier hours upon hours of the same dismissive attitudes towards the new consoles even when news are good so to speak (like when the prices were actually much lower than GBs general sentiments) is just not interesting to listen to. At least for me.

And to go into your two specific examples:

The discussion with Thoughshed isn't actually about diffent SKUs on the new consoles. It is very specifically about the very first thing in the OP, what Jeff said in the Hotspot in regards to his problems with being able to choose between performance and graphics. And it seems like we simply heard two different things, because I do not hear Jeff mention SKUs there at all. It was honestly a pretty silly discussion, because how are you going to agree on what a person says, when you hear two different things? That is why I tried to shut it down.

And I asked PeteSix0 if we was serious, simply because I felt like he might be trolling. After having just made multiple long posts of explanation he asked for more, without being clear in his request. But even then, in the very same post, l tried to give him exactly what he asked for and explained myself as clearly as I could.

So I still don't see how I'm shooting down other people's well articulated opinions. Disagreeing sure, but I try not to be an ass about it.

I get your general point though and you break it down well. I don't agree with everything, but you made it clearer where some of the confusing comes from. Thank you for that.

To me, this whole thread reads as "i pre-ordered a console, and i need validation from GB that im doing the right thing" and let me tell you it doesnt matter their "enthusiasm." It shouldnt matter, buy and play the consoles/computer you want. If you enjoy it, does it matter if Jeff likes something else better? You will basically be playing the same games.

@dragon_puncher: You're welcome!

Out of curiosity, what do you think, specifically, would be an opinion that is different than Jeff, Brad, Vinny, and Alex's, while still not falling under the category of "more excited?" I genuinely can't think of one.

I would also add that, I think they do all have different perspectives on these consoles. Vinny is coming from the perspective of consoles being how he plays with his family, so Xbox Game Pass appeals to him and it's what he'll recommend to his family for them all to play multiplayer together. Brad, in the price reveal PS5 stream, was ready to buy the PS5 day one for Demon's Souls before the PC rumors/mishap in the credits came up, so he's a potential buyer that just wants more software to be sold on the purchase. Jeff, having played games a long time, is very interested in consoles remaining easy to use/plug and play, because at a certain point, when dealing with patches, half-step versions, graphics options, and hard drive upgrades -- someone in his position might as well use a PC. And outside of that bubble, someone who never wants to touch a PC is just going to be confused by this stuff, so it's detrimental to them as well. Finally, Alex primarily plays on console and is heavily invested in both physical and digital console releases, what with his 1000s+ songs in Rock Band purchased.

They all have their own perspectives and wants/needs from a console, even if they occupy the same line of work, and these inform the overall discussion -- therefore, I think there's plenty of nuance there, even if the overall consensus is "this is a weird, empty-feeling launch."

Also, this part is much more subjective, but I think a lot of the things you wish the GB crew would bring up more, like the value proposition of a console versus a PC, are facts that this audience already knows and hence they don't linger on them. If you're on Giant Bomb in the first place, you are squarely in the "enthusiast" camp of people who play games (yes, I could use the word "gamer," but that makes me retch a bit in my mouth). Then add that if you are listening to The Hotspot, that means you're paying money to listen to dudes talk about video games on the internet, which probably shrinks the audience size to "super enthusiast" or whatever you want to call it. That audience? We already know that consoles are valuable for people who want to play games and nothing more, that millions of folks buy these things on the regular. One Google search shows that pre-orders are selling out for the PS5 and XSX, and demand remains very high -- heck, they've talked about the crazy pre-orders on multiple Bombcasts. The crew probably just don't feel the need to reiterate that on The Hotspot.

@imunbeatable80: It’s really unfortunate that your takeaway from this “entire thread” is something the OP isn’t advocating for at all. But scrolling through the comments you don’t seem to be alone in that.

Just build a gaming PC. You havent raised any decent counter-points. Frankly I get fed up of people who can't cope with the mildest criticism and insist that everyone be as excited as they are. They are critics its literally their job to criticise not advertise. The new generation of consoles is boring, and the launch titles are boring. That might change sometime next year as developers start making use of the newer hardware properly but the launch is the imminent thing people are talking about, and theres very little value in buying these new consoles in 2020.

I just updated the OP. If you read that it’s hopefully more clear that is not what I’m advocating for at all.

I actually didn’t preorder a console and have no intention to do so. To me it’s more about the quality of the discussion being put out in the podcasts, where the constant dismissive attitude is tiring and uninteresting to me. But I updated the OP. Hopefully that makes it more clear.

I was responding to the post directly above mine. My fault for not tagging them.

But since we're here, you asked directly for less "doom and gloom" which is, at the very least, asking for more positivity. I don't know how to read your OP as anything other than a claim that the GB staff is just of bunch of PC gamers now (inaccurate) and that they should be happier about the upcoming console generation.

And it all just comes back to why do you care?? Are they going to ignore the new consoles? Of course not. Are they going to ignore the console exclusive games? Of course not. A year from now there will be games out for the Series X and PS5, people who want to play those games will be playing them, and Giant Bomb will be talking about them like they talk about the rest of the industry they cover for a living.

You're complaining about nothing. Let it go.

@theoracleofgame: Just updated the OP based on your posts among other things and what I’m arguing for here isn’t really specific personal opinions, but better and more well rounded discussions. When the refrain “Why would any buy these consoles now?” (paraphrasing here) comes up again and again, I wish someone would actually take the time to make a direct comparison to what you get spec wise in these boxes compared to last gen or the launch lineups. That doesn’t mean you have to personally be super excited for the console, but in the hours of talk there have been around next gen consoles on the site, I think it’s too bad that stuff like this never have come up. Instead the discussions have been very similar.

And you’re right of course, there is a lot of different personalities with diffent wants and needs, but maybe I’m just not listening close enough, but I honestly don’t feel like that often becomes very clear. GB usually discuss big news like this from an industry standpoint first, which is why I feel there is some critical parts of that side missing. I would probably wellcome a more personal side, but when they all more or less agree that the consoles aren’t worth buying now, I guess that also quickly becomes a bit the same.

And it’s hard to know of course, but I doubt even general “enthusias gamers“, or what ever you want to call people listening to a paid podcast, know about the value and power of the components in the next gen consoles, especially compared to last gen. It was something I had to find myself at least.

The first point I really tried to answer clearly in the new OP. If that is still your take away, then yeah, probably can’t do any more.

Why do I care is a good question. In regards to GB the answer is easy. If I didn’t care I wouldn’t listen. In regards to this thread, I would ideally probably just have gotten this of my chest and that would have been the end of it, but then the thread took a bit of life of it’s own and I felt obligated to answer all these questions.

but the general consensus is that it would cost you at least $1.200 to build a PC equivalent to a PS5 and even more for an Xbox Series X.

So what? The price to fully take advantage of the proposed 4K 60+ FPS on one of the new consoles would also run you around 1200+ bucks. Many people do not have 4K ready TV's or monitors, and even fewer have them at 120Hz. I mean, seriously, go have a look at the prices of 4K 120Hz monitors and TV's, then couple that with the cost of your new console. All Bakalar is saying is that if you really want that level of performance, then you could probably spend an equivalent (or even less) amount of cash on on a PC build, andfuture proof yourself a bit while you're at it.

Hours of constant dismissive agreement isn’t an interesting discussion. Simply put, the collective attitude of the crew towards these new consoles can be summed down to “Why would anyone buy these now?”, which I think lacks a lot of nuance and quickly becomes tiring to listen to.

I feel like all the nuance you're going to get from Giantbomb - both the crew we all listen to and the posters that have participated in this thread - has been exhausted.

There are plenty of good arguments to be made for next gen consoles.

What are these arguments? And be specific. If you're going to talk about value, specify why you think they're so valuable versus an Xbox One X or a PC. Remember that I already have a pretty long post in this thread talking about why a $1200 PC is way more valuable than it first appears when compared to a brand-new $500 console.

I'll even meet you halfway and pretend I'm not a PC gamer. I'll pretend I've got an Xbox One X and PS4 Pro already connected to a 4K HDR TV. Why should I buy these consoles in 2020? What has you excited? What arguments could a hypothetical Giantbomb devil's advocate have?

@justin258 said:

That is the original OP, like I said in the next sentence after your quote. I’m not gonna go into every argument again In detail, but just to clear some things up.

I never said PC was bad value. I said next gen consoles are a lot better value (based on price for specs) compared to PC than they were at the start of this gen. I’m sure you can get a great PC for $1.200, but a lot of people are not interested in spending that amount of money and just want ease of use, for them the consoles are a good option.

Getting a lot better value out of the gate should be exciting for console buyers because you simply get more for your money. So far there doesn’t seem to be any clear bottlenecks here like the CPU in this gen.

Besides that, as a huge Souls fan I’m very much looking forward to Demon’s Souls. Simply looks amazing and since it’s like 10 years since I played the original, it doesn’t bother me at all that it’s a remake.

Then on top of that it sounds like last gen games will run significantly better on next gen, just based on the new Series X videos out today. Load times down between 60-75% and much smoother frame rates is a substantial improval that does’t even need a patch.

So why should you be excited? The same reason you should be excited to buy a new graphics card, it will run all the newest games and make your old games run better too (And then on top of that you have exclusives and great overall value).

I do have an issue with the general attitude across the games industry and many hardcore fans of 'just get a PC'. The PC is no doubt fantastic value however as the OP said $1200 is a significant amount of money compared to the $300-500 of these new consoles. Even if in the long run a PC would work out better value many people (myself included) simply can't justify that sort of upfront cost versus the lower investment in a console.

Then you have 'what are you going to play on them?' at the same time people are considering spending the cost of a console on just a new graphics card which is essentially the same thing of taking games that could be played on old hardware but having them play better. Why is buying a graphics card to make games look better fine but buying a new console to have games look/run better looked down upon?

Overall though I have no issues with the crew having their preferred way to play and generally just skip over those discussions. I'm sure console sales numbers will prove out that among the wider market and not the hardcore niche consoles will still do very well. We've been hearing for 3 generations now that 'these are the last consoles, everything will move to PC' but that just hasn't happened.

I'm an employed 31 year old man with disposable income who has moderated a videogame website for 10 years. I've been to multiple videogame conventions, have spent thousands of dollars on a flashy gaming PC, and I have a lot of free time right now thanks to lockdown; I'm pretty much their target market demographic personified, and despite that they have completely failed to capture my interest.

So I'm with the staff on this one.

I'm glad you're excited, I really am. But you've brought all of this up before and, from most of the responses on this thread, it's only gotten a collective shrug. It's nice for most people, sure, but talking about performance and resolutions and such on new consoles doesn't do much for the Giantbomb crowd, as you can see from this thread, so if you're looking to discuss performance for your dollar in the new consoles, you'll have to go elsewhere. That's not this place.

When the Xbox and PS2 came out, 3D games finally looked reasonably good and played fairly well. You could play games like Jak and Daxter, Halo, and Final Fantasy X on them, and both consoles could play DVDs as well - that's exciting. When the Dreamcast came out, it looked amazing and everything ran so smoothly and it could even do online play - that's exciting. When the 360 came out, it bumped everything up to HD resolutions, could potentially play games in 1080p, and looked goddamn incredible in comparison, plus it promised to greatly expand online play and introduced us to games way bigger and more complex than anything we'd seen before - that's exciting. Sure, we're getting a resolution and performance bump, but the features we're looking at and the games we're seeing are literally all things we've played before, just looking slightly better. That's decidedly not very exciting.

For the record, people do like shiny new things, that's why we're seeing so many console pre-orders, that's why the 3080 is sold out and will be for a long time. But just because people like to buy new things doesn't mean there's all that much for an enthusiast to discuss. It just means there's something nice and shiny out for you to go buy if you're so inclined.

I am not in any way hostile to the new consoles. I have even thought of the benefits of going console(s) and dropping the whole pc thing. But right now just doesn't feel like it's the time. And yes, if I ever.

One reason is with the consoles themselves. I know by experience there will be that half step up in a few years. Another is that I have recently ramped up my present pc, and for graphics I have a 1080ti. Next year that will (I hope) become a 30xx. So ray tracing, besides Demon Souls, was my strongest arguments for at least getting a PS5. But since I have at least some graphics muscle, I think it would be weak to spend hundreds on the console for one known game gratification and ray tracing..

And there is something else. I am not sure about the shapes of the consoles. I haven't read like I should, but they seem to be wanting to be upright(?). I have a wall mount 3 tier glass shelving, but size(s) might pose a problem.

For others, I hope the consoles are a good deal.

I'd argue that super insane SSDs that will lead to low/zero load times and fluid texture/geometry loading is going to be pretty cool for games.

Maybe GB isn't excited because finally the consoles are basically more like good range PC's. Up until the 3000 series it was looking like the new consoles were going to be almost high-end PC level from a GPU standpoint.

I also understand when people in this thread say GB doesn't have to be excited and we shouldn't validate our opinions by their excitement but you know what, it's really fun to have a gaming site be excited and hyped. Many of us liked the hype and bullshit of E3 - it was an exciting time and a new console generation should be like that. If it's not to GB, maybe they need to think about why they aren't (And maybe why they are doing the site at all) and then articulate it with some interesting discussion. Personally I think this upcoming gen is feeling really exciting.

@blobbypantsjones: I don't know why you are excited. Can you plz tell me why you are excited Which game are you looking forward to. Are there more than one. Also, this;

Is messed up.

It might just be me but I still wont believe the thing's are releasing till I see it in a store.

The release of multiple skew's of a high end consumer product in the middle of a pandemic that has strained manufacturing capacity, delivery route's, retailer's limiting the amount of people in stores and the general public losing a considerable amount of disposable income them coming to market is surprising enough.

The staff has seen console releases before and so have we, the excitement will come when it is justified as it always should

@justin258: Gonna try to do a pretty quick reply here.

First of all, it was never my point to try and get people excited for the new consoles. Like I keep repeating, it was about GB discussions, not an attempt at a hype machine. And that being said, I'm not surprised that most people here aren't that into new consoles. When GB are so down on them it only makes sense that would extent to a lot of the fans of the site as well.

But I will say though, that I think dedicated SSDs with games being made directly to take advantage of them will be a game changer and (as far as I know) it's not something that has ever been done before.

I will also agree though, that neither MS nor Sony has been doing enough to ramp up excitement and just overall knowledge of these machines. Presumably that is coming in the next month or so, but it is very late. I don't think the marketing have been on point, which is probably due to a lot of factors and not just shit like Covid.

And last but not least, discussions like these about the merits of the machines is exactly what I'm missing in GBs coverage. As I've said before, I do not need the crew to agree with me, but I think any form of discussion is more interesting than constant agreement without a lot of detail.

I believe that GB is on the side of most consumers here. Also, from a site stand point, I don't know how they really show off these new systems to begin with. Yeah, they can hook them up, go through the interfaces (which is always informative, IMO) and fire up the few games that are available at launch...then what? Stream old games from them? It'll be kind of a novelty for those who actually get the consoles to show them off, but with their limited capabilities, they can't stream higher than 1080p60 yet on consoles meant to go up to 4k120. That's not entirely their fault either. From a GB content standpoint, I can see how they might not be so excited to dive into a very shallow pool. And going forward, assuming they can get back into an office somewhere and get new gear from their new corporate daddies, I'm not sure if they invest all the way into capturing 4k footage to put up on the site because of the massive cost associated with that.

I'm someone who used to get incredibly hyped for every console release, but for whatever reason I'm just not feeling it this time around. Maybe it's just due to the pandemic and the lack of E3, but this is the first time where I look at the two consoles and go "meh".

It seems that I'm not the only one either. The software is where the focus is now and there are dozens of games coming out at any time. I no longer feel like getting the latest and greatest hardware will offer much.

If you're someone who's looking forward to the consoles, then great, but it's understandable why they aren't excited.

Did anyone here even consider my headache? Why are we so cold to one another!?

@themaniacsgnome: I for one had forgotten your headache entirely but am touched you are still suffering. Cold compress across eyes if headache behind eyes, if headache across top of head, drink more water quicker, if headache at rear of head try not to lie down before a doctor can check. If headache due to thread all I can say is that I'm sorry for my part?

As for coldness, I am of a flinty people and this is the internet where sincerity dies on salt flats.

(Tone guide: "This an Arby's Ma'am")

Maybe you should find that "fun" gaming site filled with excitement and hype elsewhere. GB is rarely ever that and as the years go on the crew need a lot more substance to latch onto than just a new coat of paint over old games, granted I am fully aware of what these strong consoles will eventually be capable but it seems like a lot of people are missing the emphasis on EVENTUALLY. Yes the consoles will eventually have exciting stuff to play on but that time isn't now. What's now are a set of consoles with very few new games and one side of the fence offering a couple older generations worth of games to play at higher FPS/resolution.

Hey that's great that that's enough for some people but the GB crew are not obligated to hype up those aspects and I wouldn't want them too because it would immediately come off as disingenuous. Personally I don't even want them to force themselves to list off these "great" benefits that people keep advocating over and over about the new machines if those things don't excite them either because that too would come off as forced. If those benefits moved the crew so much they would go out of their way to say it. There are plenty of other voices in the sea of video game commentary that will do what some people keep demanding out of GB like they're owed something. Unfortunately a lot of these guys as well as large portions of the GB community already know what it's like to be able to go back to old games with boosted performance thanks to a new graphics card so welcome to the party, console crowd. Sorry that the people who are already used to this experience already went off to bed.

The excitement will naturally grow when there's some real new content to enjoy on these new boxes but as I said earlier, that is not now, it's later.

You didn't hype it up enough. I don't feel your enthusiasm over how intense this headache is, how else am I supposed to take this seriously? Step it up.

I disagree with your assessment that they haven't discussed it fairly. The reasons to wait vastly outnumber the reasons to buy a new console day one, especially with this pre order mess or if you're not interested in either DS or Spiderman. Naturally, the discussion time will reflect that. If it sounds biased or one-sided to you, that's because it is.

Have GB fans always been this whiny? I’ve been a member 5 years now and it really seems to be getting worse.

@pearsonpark: I wouldn't call it whiny personally but it has without a doubt always been this way. I actually think it is impossible to have a large audience that will be 100% satisfied with everything you do 100% of the time. Just comes with the territory. Tone does definitely matter when make critical assessments like this, and I think thats the major failing of the thread that has turned it into a big drawn out fight between the creator and people that feel the need to defend someone elses viewpoints. I mean we have had everything and the kitchen sink in here in terms of opinions right down to "you should be more open to the opinions of others, because I think your opinions are wrong."

I always find it weird when they say not to buy it. I’m assuming most people on this site will buy one before a price cut anyway, so why not buy it now?

@chaz934: After the latest Digital Foundry video showing how the Series X drastically improves performance on current gen games without any additional work or patching I'm more inclined to get it sooner just to make some of my current experiences a lot more enjoyable. Shaving 75% of load times from most games and getting a nearly steady 60 FPS sounds great to me. Although I was a little surprised that Sekiro was still running between 50-60 FPS instead of a locked and solid 60. Seems with the type of beefy hardware they are advertising this shouldn't be an issue, but maybe that game is just that poorly optimized for console.

Opportunity cost. Even if the price is the same, buying it now means you don't have access to the money to use in other ways in the meantime. You're assuming everyone has enough disposable income that spending hundreds of dollars won't have a material effect on their lives.

@humanity: I felt similarly, regarding the drops below 60 that some games were still showing. If games made for the Xbox One still have slowdown like that, how does that bode for games that are being made for this machine? Maybe it is just that some of the games aren't well optimized, or weren't made to take advantage of the hardware (like how some old games on PC can't use multi core processors, or weren't programmed to use more than X GB of RAM). I certainly hope that's the case, otherwise we're jumping into this generation already with a power deficit.

@vaiz: To me that sounds like a very glass half full way to look at it.

The only game that isn't running more or less perfectly in times of FPS in that DF video is Sekiro and From Software is notorious not great at optimising their games. Seems like even without next gen patches the vast majority of last gen games will see significant improvements from running on next gen hardware.

@vaiz: Yah seems like if they are targeting. 4K for next gen then 1080p from last gen should be a solid lock.

I hear ya. I play games mostly on PC and the one of primary reasons people are dropping $700 - $1500 on new 3080's and 3090's is to to play games at higher quality settings with smoother frame rates. That's no different then someone wanting a $400 - $500 PS5 or XBOX Series X to play the latest Call of Duty and Cyberpunk 2077 at higher settings versus a PS4 or XBOX One X. Both options sound like good choices to me! Play games however you want.

The DF video also clearly states several times that backward compatible games run the GPU in a compatibility mode that does not use the full power of the GPU (presumably 'cos that would involve rewriting the game engines)

And none of the back compat games he tried maxed out the CPU.

Not sure we can draw many real conclusions from that for new games going forward.

Whats to be excited for?

PSX got consoles to 3d, both Playstations 2 and 3 bumbed up on graphics and physics.

Playstation 4/X-box One improved even further on graphics and scale in general.

Latest console generation is looking boring, and there is no games either for the launch.

Why would you buy one now?

I would wait at least a year to even consider buying it.