Inner Worlds/Gladius/Doom 1

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ahoodedfigure

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Edited By ahoodedfigure

Gladius and Doom have been the games most played this weekend. I also discovered an interesting game from about  15 years ago that I'll share with you further down.


Gladius


My significant other and I started a co-op game of Gladius, and our team-up has been surprisingly effective. I'd completed all of one campaign, Valens', and wanted to start Ursula's. My SO has already completed several campaigns but still wants to try out new combinations of stuff, so we sort of agreed on which classes we want to hire and spread them pretty evenly. So far the satyr and the berserker get the most attention from me, and we have a couple bandits who give each other movement and initiative bonuses, which is nice.

I also benefit from my SO's thorough understanding of the game, so I can skip the boring tutorial bits quickly and get to building a good gladiatorial team. Given that I can still find surprises neither of us have seen before, I feel that I hold my own :)


Doom. The First One.


I pulled out Doom 3 recently, which has a special feature letting me play the original Doom and Doom II on my TV. It plays really well, and the PC versions that I bought from Id so long ago are pretty much lost to history for me so it's my main method of playing these old games now, and they still play pretty well.  I'm still surprised by how much I remember, especially from the shareware levels. The second two episodes are a bit harder for me to remember every little detail for, and although I try to get 100% secrets without looking anything up, I've had to pass on some levels. 

Maybe some day I'll take myself up on the challenge to play through on Nightmare, or start each level with just a pistol and 50 bullets, but I have to balance challenge with having a good time.

What I find I miss most is a melee button. I never realized how sensible it was to have a melee mode for every weapon until I went back to Doom and found switching to a chainsaw or fist every time I got in too close to a baddy. I would also like a flashlight on my visor, another Halo reference I guess, but even Doom 3 made you hold the flashlight separately from wielding a weapon, so that's probably a bit too much to expect, especially when dynamic lighting was in its infancy when the original Doom was made. Strangely enough, I'm used to the lack of mouselook so that isn't a big deal, although turning with the right thumbstick is a bit too slow for my tastes.

This particular version lacks independent map scrolling, and it's not really optimized for a high density TV so things look a bit gravely when you're moving around. There's also a bug that I don't remember being in early editions, but it seems to be in a lot of later ones: when you save and then reload, if the monsters aren't looking at you, they revert to holding mode and don't attack.  They're activated by weapons fire, but that still means it can be easily exploited. I tend to only save when I'm in a safe spot, anyway, but it's still a bit annoying. Not as annoying as another one I encountered on an older platform that ignored the whole enemy-on-enemy fighting mechanic. To me it isn't Doom if enemies don't fight each other.

The game still feels a bit cheap when doing something opens a nest full of enemies behind you; any pretense of a story in Doom is gone for me now that narrative gaming has taken many leaps forward since then, but somehow the limits on possibilities in Doom make me feel less cheated than in Doom 3. I'm OK with these scripted events in Doom because I feel like I bring them on myself almost, and no matter how messed up a particular scenario is, I never feel like the game is pounding me for no reason.


Inner Worlds


I had never heard of or seen Inner Worlds until a few days ago. It's a platformer in the late 80's, early 90's mode, with some cool music, animation, early arcade-style parallax scrolling, and has one of the least intrusive tutorial levels I've ever seen. It's now freeware, released by developer Sleepless Software, although they also allow you to purchase it from them if you enjoy it. Here's a video; gameplay starts one minute in:

 http://quietube.com/v.php/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpYmurE8LWo

I've managed to snag a copy but haven't played it yet so I can't say anything about the controls, but it's nice to see a game like this, even though admitting that dates my sensibilities a bit. I'm betting DOSBox will be the key to unlocking it, though I haven't tried just yet.

Anyone find any interesting hidden gems or gaming underdogs they want to share?
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ahoodedfigure

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#1  Edited By ahoodedfigure

Gladius and Doom have been the games most played this weekend. I also discovered an interesting game from about  15 years ago that I'll share with you further down.


Gladius


My significant other and I started a co-op game of Gladius, and our team-up has been surprisingly effective. I'd completed all of one campaign, Valens', and wanted to start Ursula's. My SO has already completed several campaigns but still wants to try out new combinations of stuff, so we sort of agreed on which classes we want to hire and spread them pretty evenly. So far the satyr and the berserker get the most attention from me, and we have a couple bandits who give each other movement and initiative bonuses, which is nice.

I also benefit from my SO's thorough understanding of the game, so I can skip the boring tutorial bits quickly and get to building a good gladiatorial team. Given that I can still find surprises neither of us have seen before, I feel that I hold my own :)


Doom. The First One.


I pulled out Doom 3 recently, which has a special feature letting me play the original Doom and Doom II on my TV. It plays really well, and the PC versions that I bought from Id so long ago are pretty much lost to history for me so it's my main method of playing these old games now, and they still play pretty well.  I'm still surprised by how much I remember, especially from the shareware levels. The second two episodes are a bit harder for me to remember every little detail for, and although I try to get 100% secrets without looking anything up, I've had to pass on some levels. 

Maybe some day I'll take myself up on the challenge to play through on Nightmare, or start each level with just a pistol and 50 bullets, but I have to balance challenge with having a good time.

What I find I miss most is a melee button. I never realized how sensible it was to have a melee mode for every weapon until I went back to Doom and found switching to a chainsaw or fist every time I got in too close to a baddy. I would also like a flashlight on my visor, another Halo reference I guess, but even Doom 3 made you hold the flashlight separately from wielding a weapon, so that's probably a bit too much to expect, especially when dynamic lighting was in its infancy when the original Doom was made. Strangely enough, I'm used to the lack of mouselook so that isn't a big deal, although turning with the right thumbstick is a bit too slow for my tastes.

This particular version lacks independent map scrolling, and it's not really optimized for a high density TV so things look a bit gravely when you're moving around. There's also a bug that I don't remember being in early editions, but it seems to be in a lot of later ones: when you save and then reload, if the monsters aren't looking at you, they revert to holding mode and don't attack.  They're activated by weapons fire, but that still means it can be easily exploited. I tend to only save when I'm in a safe spot, anyway, but it's still a bit annoying. Not as annoying as another one I encountered on an older platform that ignored the whole enemy-on-enemy fighting mechanic. To me it isn't Doom if enemies don't fight each other.

The game still feels a bit cheap when doing something opens a nest full of enemies behind you; any pretense of a story in Doom is gone for me now that narrative gaming has taken many leaps forward since then, but somehow the limits on possibilities in Doom make me feel less cheated than in Doom 3. I'm OK with these scripted events in Doom because I feel like I bring them on myself almost, and no matter how messed up a particular scenario is, I never feel like the game is pounding me for no reason.


Inner Worlds


I had never heard of or seen Inner Worlds until a few days ago. It's a platformer in the late 80's, early 90's mode, with some cool music, animation, early arcade-style parallax scrolling, and has one of the least intrusive tutorial levels I've ever seen. It's now freeware, released by developer Sleepless Software, although they also allow you to purchase it from them if you enjoy it. Here's a video; gameplay starts one minute in:

 http://quietube.com/v.php/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpYmurE8LWo

I've managed to snag a copy but haven't played it yet so I can't say anything about the controls, but it's nice to see a game like this, even though admitting that dates my sensibilities a bit. I'm betting DOSBox will be the key to unlocking it, though I haven't tried just yet.

Anyone find any interesting hidden gems or gaming underdogs they want to share?
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melcene

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#2  Edited By melcene

I really enjoyed Gladius.  Unfortunately, I think we lent our copy away or something.  I couldn't tell you off the top of my head what I enjoyed doing most with the game, ie which characters/classes.  Now I may have to go back and take a look at info on the game :)

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ahoodedfigure

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#3  Edited By ahoodedfigure
@melcene:  Do that! :) I wouldn't mind hearing what sorts of classes your school had; I think that game had a lot of different ways you could tackle it, and like right now I'm trying to concentrate as much as I can on classes I didn't have in my last game just to mix things up (my Ursula even has brown hair this time).  I still want Langston the minotaur, though; I know I'll try to rope him again.

I love you, Langston!!
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#4  Edited By owl_of_minerva
@ahoodedfigure:
I still enjoy the classic FPSes of the past, such as Doom, Quake, and Unreal. The thing that's evident to me now is how different they are, how fundamentally non-narrative they are in their structure (even though they might make some stabs at storytelling). Espen Aarseth has an interesting article on Doom where he analyses progression in terms of 'aporia', very clever as aporia is Greek for "no path" I believe. Essentially, shooters like Doom are based on environmental awareness and mastery, the difference between seeing the path and not seeing it. Same for their emphasis on hazards, secrets, hidden enemies, advanced movement techniques, etc.
Quite a difference to the shooters now where they are very narratively structured shooting galleries broken up by scripted events and cutscenes, lacking many of the mechanics that defined the previous era of shooters. I don't find that it's necessarily an improvement.

Anyway, I've recently been playing some Gorky17, which I got off gog. It's an interesting party-based strategy RPG reminiscent of Fallout. It has some adventure and survival horror elements as well, making it an odd mix. It seems decent enough to be classed a hidden gem, even if it suffers from lack of polish here and there (it was developed in Poland by some of the guys that went on to make Painkiller.
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ahoodedfigure

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#5  Edited By ahoodedfigure
@owl_of_minerva said:
" @ahoodedfigure: I still enjoy the classic FPSes of the past, such as Doom, Quake, and Unreal. The thing that's evident to me now is how different they are, how fundamentally non-narrative they are in their structure (even though they might make some stabs at storytelling). Espen Aarseth has an interesting article on Doom where he analyses progression in terms of 'aporia', very clever as aporia is Greek for "no path" I believe. Essentially, shooters like Doom are based on environmental awareness and mastery, the difference between seeing the path and not seeing it. Same for their emphasis on hazards, secrets, hidden enemies, advanced movement techniques, etc. Quite a difference to the shooters now where they are very narratively structured shooting galleries broken up by scripted events and cutscenes, lacking many of the mechanics that defined the previous era of shooters. I don't find that it's necessarily an improvement. Anyway, I've recently been playing some Gorky17, which I got off gog. It's an interesting party-based strategy RPG reminiscent of Fallout. It has some adventure and survival horror elements as well, making it an odd mix. It seems decent enough to be classed a hidden gem, even if it suffers from lack of polish here and there (it was developed in Poland by some of the guys that went on to make Painkiller. "
You have a link for that Aarseth article?

From what I've experienced of more narratively cohesive games, including Doom 3, I'd have to say I love the more tactile structure behind Doom. I play Doom because I want to be put in tight situations where I have to blaze away to survive, not because I'm terribly interested in world building. There are some good games that do good world building, but I think that often snakes its way into FPSes because it's easier to sell a game by its story than to say "this game feels really good when you play it. Trust us!"

Doom FEELS smooth when it plays, after all these years, and it's relatively bug free, which I can't say many a major release that I've heard of lately, FPS or otherwise. There's a pretense of a story in Doom, but you can tell they're mainly setting it up so you have a fun experience (and in a sense, you create your own story via the game. Not a story about the setting, but a story about your playing experience: "I ran through the room and didn't shoot anyone, closing the door behind me so they could tear each other apart. Then I blasted anyone who came through the door"). I sorta hope Rage doesn't worry too much about its story, hearkening back a bit to good old Doom, although I imagine it'll have a lot more structure (and a lot less non-linear ways to beat a level), than Doom did.

Incidentally, I actually did something similar to the vignette above where I pitted monsters against each other, then purposefully dove in to a place I wasn't ready for, teleporting behind a cacodemon and a host of regular demons. Whipped out the old plasma thrower and held the trigger down!

I liked the first Quake, and I think Hexen was a cool game from what I played of the shareware (not a big fan of Heretic); the second Quake's visuals were a bit too drab for me to enjoy it as much. I sort of feel that was my cut-off point, although Quake III was pretty fun.

I ALMOST bought Gorky 17 back when I was first getting into GOG, but a review pointed out that the combat had a chess-like mechanic where you don't just shoot at a distance, you have to line up your dude with the target in a straight line. That sounded a bit iffy to me so I didn't follow through with it, but here I am playing Gladius which does almost the same thing for a lot of the troop types. I'd be interested in your impressions once you get farther into the game; let me know.
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#6  Edited By Tuksit

Gladius is such a good game. My favourite class was always(and still is) the mongrel shaman. Fungus Amongus! May not be the best class, but hey, I thought it was fun.

Actually can we just get a sequel to Gladius? That would be great, thanks.

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#7  Edited By ahoodedfigure
@Menseguez:  I wound up using that shaman quite a bit, myself. I gave him a petrified piece of wood and he went to town on guys, building up his affinity to a point where he never really lost energy, and would just pepper guys with magical attacks from a distance.

I'd love a sequel myself, but I guess the game didn't perform to expectations. So, y'know, that means more Star Wars games. Yay.
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#8  Edited By owl_of_minerva
@ahoodedfigure:  Absolutely, the fun of playing Doom is the intensity and speed. It is a 'pure game' which doesn't need narrative hooks. And I think you're right, you can appeal to more people with a developed narrative and more planified mechanics than you can with the relatively niche market of hardcore FPSes that demand twitch reflexes, environmental mastery, and 'puzzle' solving. I agree with you about Quake 2 as well. Technically the engine was impressive for the time but the designs are absolute garbage. Everything looks the same, the hub levels are useless backtracking, the levels are generic as they come, the narrative-based mission structure is misguided and poorly executed, etc. Although it is a solid game it is a chore to play.

The limitation on firing range and angle is pretty weird in Gorky 17 - the weapons all have different restrictions in that way. It's not something I've seen before outside of Japanese strategy RPGs. But because it's a grid-based system it's not as annoying as it could be. Still, I'd rather have a % to hit with range increments like Fallout.

I couldn't find a way to access that article I mentioned for free, but I found a decent synopsis.
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ahoodedfigure

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#9  Edited By ahoodedfigure
@owl_of_minerva:  And yet, playing today I was reminded that rooms still have a mood with the lighting, textures and challenges, and you get a feel for the level when playing, where some are more run and gun, and some demand more meticulous exploring.

When you do have narrative structure, like Quake 2 did, then the player is more likely to pick it apart and demand more from it. It can't just be slapped on, so I admire game makers who say "you know what, we weren't doing this for the story anyway. Screw it." If they do put a story in, it's nice to make a meal out of that too, rather than it feeling obligatory.
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#10  Edited By Bollard

Sorry for not contributing anything useful to this discussion (mainly because I can't), but every time I see the title of this blog I think it says Glados and get excited, and subsequently disappointed. 


You played Portal 2 at all ahoodedfigure?
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#11  Edited By Jimbo

Gladius is hella sick.  Would love a sequel, or something similar.

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#12  Edited By ahoodedfigure
@Jimbo:  Glad to see so much Gladius love after this post. It definitely wasn't perfect, but it does so many things right it's kind of ridiculous it wasn't better known. I think later audiences might have been more into it, but whatever. Yeah, a sequel, spiritual or otherwise, would be welcome.

@Chavtheworld: Heh, if it's any consolation I don't set out to disappoint people :)  No, I haven't played 2. Can't. But I'd like to play it.
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#13  Edited By Karl_Boss

Doom 1 is an absolute classic, still holds up well even to this day.

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#14  Edited By lead_farmer

Wow, Gladius.  Use to play that game with my brother.  Still a pretty fun game.  Did anyone else get a kind of FF Tactics feel from the combat?

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#15  Edited By Bollard
@ahoodedfigure: Haha, it's totally cool I wasn't blaming you. And it is indeed a fabulous game.
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ahoodedfigure

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#16  Edited By ahoodedfigure
@lead_farmer:  I'm willing to bet FFT did inspire it to some degree, as well as other tactics games. But having played the hell out of both, I know that there are some pretty strong differences. In FFT, you knew how strong the enemy would because of the level of your main guy, and the plot felt a bit more integrated into the combat. You also switched jobs for characters, and part of the fun/pain was trying to figure out what combination of job levels unlocked new jobs. Since Gladius is pretty much one character one class, it's more about collecting a group of people and making sure your recruitment balances out your school. I sorta like that a bit better, because it means the characters feel like they have a bit more personality since they stick with their role the whole game.  That, and the whole swing meter thing, of course.  Still, yeah, plenty of similarities, like with buying job skills, and attack bonuses based on unti facing.

If you want to talk similarities, old FFT takes a lot of its cues from Tactics Ogre.
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ahoodedfigure

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#17  Edited By ahoodedfigure
@Unknown_Pleasures:  Maybe I've played it enough that it quickly becomes second nature for me, but I don't feel hindered very much by its older-style control scheme or squibbly visuals when creatures are far away. Finished the second episode...  today, I think?

Wait, did I play it today?  Yeah, I must have. Have to edit a blog now.
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#18  Edited By Darviathar

What platform are you playing gladius on?  I've been wanting to play it again for years, but to my knowledge it has never worked on the xbox 360, and my original box is long gone.

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ahoodedfigure

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#19  Edited By ahoodedfigure
@Darviathar: We still have a working original XBox. If I'd discovered it earlier it probably would have been on the Gamecube, but I wouldn't be able to play it now due to some complications with that old machine. Unfortunately, the 360 emulator doesn't cover Gladius as you're implying here; you aren't the first person I've seen who was disappointed by that. I keep hoping they'll eventually release it for PC or something, but I imagine that would require someone taking away time from working on a Star Wars title...
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#20  Edited By Darviathar

It felt more like a pc game to me.  Console players tend to prefer action to tactics, and Gladius was more akin to Heroes of Might and magic or Disciples 2 than it was anything else I've played on a console.  I was disappointed, but hardly surprised that it sold so poorly and has never been ported to the 360. 

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#21  Edited By ahoodedfigure
@Darviathar: I'd say there's definitely a niche for consoles that Gladius fully emulated, though, with titles like Final Fantasy Tactics and Ogre Tactics feeling at least partly akin to Gladius. Gladius also had a swing meter, which you could turn off but it would make success a lot more difficult because then it would have hit chance run exclusively on percentages with little you could do save outflanking to increase them. At least with the swing meter you could theoretically hit no matter how bad the odds, as long as there was some critical hit chance.
 
Whether it belonged on a console or elsewhere, I agree that it was grossly under-appreciated, even if in some ways not as complete as it could have been. It's one of the bigger titles that totally needs some new console appreciation, at least as a port.
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#22  Edited By coakroach

Oh god I loved Gladius so damn much. 
Murmillo + Minotaur was the cats pajamas.

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#23  Edited By ahoodedfigure
@coakroach: I stayed away from Murmillos because I was worried that they were overpowered and they had silly hats, but in our new campaign I'm thinking of getting one eventually. The Minotaur may be overpowered, but they're so cool I don't care!!