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#1 Edited by ICryCauseImEmo (522 posts) -

Hey duders! Well it finally has happened. If you've ever heard of Titan Quest and or Iron Lore you may have known about Grim Dawn. Crate Entertainment has been working on their new ARPG since 2009. I purchased an early key from them about a year ago in hopes to support them, and overall they have made a lot of progress. However they are reaching out to ask the community on kickstarter for more. If you'll notice they simply state the game will come out its just a matter of "when" with kickstarter funds they have the ability to hire a couple more people and push it out sooner! Hopefully these guys turn into a Wasteland 2 because honestly there are not enough "good" ARPG's out there.

With Diablo 3, Torchlight 2, Path of Exile do we really need another "loot" based game? Absolutely these guys have been straight forward with their community. Because they are indie developers they come on to the forums interact with the community daily! They let some of the choices even fall into our hands. If any kickstarter needs your support its certainly these guys. :) Hopefully some of you guys will look into it and support this awesome dev team!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/crateentertainment/grim-dawn

#2 Posted by Gargantuan (1877 posts) -

It looks cool but I think Diablo 3, Path of Exile and Torchlight 2 will satisfy my loot lust.

#3 Posted by Mesklinite (803 posts) -

I've kicked the project too! Looks cool!

#4 Posted by StarvingGamer (7560 posts) -

Yeahhh... nooo...

I tried to get into Titan Quest multiple times but I found that game sooo boring, even when playing with friends. I think I'll stick to Kickstarting story-driven party-based tactical RPGs.

#5 Posted by Brodehouse (9370 posts) -

Diablo clones get no love from me.

Hanging out of the passenger side of Diablo's ride, tryin to holla at me.

#6 Posted by Fasckira (62 posts) -
$280,000 GOAL

Seems a little ambitious for another clone but best of luck to 'em.

#7 Posted by duggshammer (158 posts) -

@Brodehouse said:

Diablo clones get no love from me. Hanging out of the passenger side of Diablo's ride, tryin to holla at me.

No, I don't want no clone, a clone is a game that won't get no love from me.

Plus, I just got a diablo III beta key. :D

#8 Posted by Scrawnto (2413 posts) -

I really liked Titan's Quest, even if I didn't play a whole lot of it. I'll probably support this. Nonlinear progression, destructable structures, NPC factions to ally with, and the awesome skill progression from Titan's Quest that lets you mix and match classes should make for a pretty awesome game.

#9 Posted by whyareyoucrouchingspock (976 posts) -

I thought Titan Quest was a great game (better than Diablo) so I will fund this.

#10 Posted by whyareyoucrouchingspock (976 posts) -

@Brodehouse said:

Diablo clones get no love from me. Hanging out of the passenger side of Diablo's ride, tryin to holla at me.

Oh right. I guess every FPS that isn't wolf or RPG that isn't DnD sucks then. Same with Starcarft II, Dune clone.

#11 Posted by Blackmoore (254 posts) -

Titan Quest was great. I was looking forward to Grim Dawn and still am.

#12 Posted by ICryCauseImEmo (522 posts) -

@duggshammer said:

@Brodehouse said:

Diablo clones get no love from me. Hanging out of the passenger side of Diablo's ride, tryin to holla at me.

No, I don't want no clone, a clone is a game that won't get no love from me.

Plus, I just got a diablo III beta key. :D

I'v had a diablo 3 beta key for over 4 months and I have to say I wish i never got my key. Something about D3 just turns me off and turns me off hard. I'll be waiting for torchlight and this game. Blizzard has just fallen from my grace, must be Activison.

#13 Edited by nori (17 posts) -

Been following Grim Dawn for awhile and actually suggested a KS project on their forums. At first medierra (lead designer) didn't want to as he thought they couldn't raise enough funds to make a difference in design (hiring full time people is expensive), but after a lot of community support and a few high profile KS games it looks like they decided to launch this. I couldn't be more thrilled as I would love to see this project come to fruition. Titan Quest was a great game that was really underappreciated and Grim Dawn looks to take that game and make it loads better (plus a steampunkish setting is awesome).

This game will be awesome!

In response to people not wanting to get it because of it being a "clone" of Diablo... That is pretty short sighted. Most games are a "clone" of another game. There is nothing wrong with that, especially if they create a new and unique world, with different fun game mechanics. Plus unlike Bilzzard, Crate Entertainment has been and will be actively listening to the gaming community. Add to that LAN support, no DRM and no need to be online and you got a winner.

~Edit, forgot to mention full mod tools...

#14 Posted by AhmadMetallic (18955 posts) -
@Brodehouse said:
Hanging out of the passenger side of Diablo's ride, tryin to holla at me.
Damn, the bastards.
#15 Posted by MikeGosot (3227 posts) -
@Brodehouse said:

Diablo clones get no love from me. Hanging out of the passenger side of Diablo's ride, tryin to holla at me.

  
#16 Posted by Morningstar (2047 posts) -

I will support this as soon as I come home from holliday =)

#17 Posted by ICryCauseImEmo (522 posts) -

@MikeGosot said:

@Brodehouse said:

Diablo clones get no love from me. Hanging out of the passenger side of Diablo's ride, tryin to holla at me.

Sadly this brings back some lonely memories haha. Great to see some guys out there are going to support these guys deserve it trying to create a bigger better game just on lives savings. Truly shows their passion.

#18 Posted by Brodehouse (9370 posts) -
@whyareyoucrouchingspock

@Brodehouse said:

Diablo clones get no love from me. Hanging out of the passenger side of Diablo's ride, tryin to holla at me.

Oh right. I guess every FPS that isn't wolf or RPG that isn't DnD sucks then. Same with Starcarft II, Dune clone.

Because the biggest innovation in ARPGs in the last ten years is a fucking dog who sells your shit for you. It's still click click click to make monster die. The core gameplay hasn't evolved or gained new intricacies, it just continues to be Diablo.

Ironically, the best game inspired by Diablo IS a first person shooter.
#19 Posted by Brodehouse (9370 posts) -

Although to be honest, if someone did holla at me while riding shotgun with The Goddamn Devil, I might have to give love.

#20 Posted by ICryCauseImEmo (522 posts) -

@Brodehouse said:

@whyareyoucrouchingspock

@Brodehouse said:

Diablo clones get no love from me. Hanging out of the passenger side of Diablo's ride, tryin to holla at me.

Oh right. I guess every FPS that isn't wolf or RPG that isn't DnD sucks then. Same with Starcarft II, Dune clone.

Because the biggest innovation in ARPGs in the last ten years is a fucking dog who sells your shit for you. It's still click click click to make monster die. The core gameplay hasn't evolved or gained new intricacies, it just continues to be Diablo. Ironically, the best game inspired by Diablo IS a first person shooter.

The dog part is sadly kinda true hahaha. I agree, that really there hasn't been much evolution in terms of aRPGs. But you have to admit fps's are extremely stale at this point as well? I think the only reason that aRPG's deserve a little more love is because there are only a select few that are even worth mentioning. I suppose its opinion based, I just look at D3 and to me it seems to have lost its roots and the hype destroyed it for me. Hopefully others who are into the same clicking will look into these guys. There are other things out there then just Call of Duty and Diablo 3.

#21 Edited by whyareyoucrouchingspock (976 posts) -

@Brodehouse said:

@whyareyoucrouchingspock

@Brodehouse said:

Diablo clones get no love from me. Hanging out of the passenger side of Diablo's ride, tryin to holla at me.

Oh right. I guess every FPS that isn't wolf or RPG that isn't DnD sucks then. Same with Starcarft II, Dune clone.

Because the biggest innovation in ARPGs in the last ten years is a fucking dog who sells your shit for you. It's still click click click to make monster die. The core gameplay hasn't evolved or gained new intricacies, it just continues to be Diablo. Ironically, the best game inspired by Diablo IS a first person shooter.

What, what? Action rpgs have evolved. At the moment we are saturated with action RPG's fuckall like Diablo. Games of recent years like Diablo are few and far between. Part of Torchlights sales was because people fucking wanted to play a game like Diablo.

Also Diablo III can fuck itself. For 1/3 the price (by your own argument) I can pick up Torchlight II, play offline, on lan and play with mods without fucking gold-farming built in.

#22 Edited by nori (17 posts) -

I got into the Beta for D3, played it once through a couple months ago, and then ended up deleting it. It just isn't great in my opinion... It is like WoW, a solid game, but nothing special or innovative (at least now, maybe WoW was special when it launched). I will certainly not be paying $60 for D3... maybe I would buy it for $20, but based on prior Bliz, products I doubt that price point will happen for a long long time.

#23 Posted by ICryCauseImEmo (522 posts) -

@nori said:

I got into the Beta for D3, played it once through a couple months ago, and then ended up deleting it. It just isn't great in my opinion... It is like WoW, a solid game, but nothing special or innovative (at least now, maybe WoW was special when it launched). I will certainly not be paying $60 for D3... maybe I would buy it for $20, but based on prior Bliz, products I doubt that price point will happen for a long long time.

Exactly how I felt. I'm glad I was able to get into the beta because the game was nothing spectacular. Leveling up in that game just felt completely useless.

#24 Posted by DeF (4692 posts) -

threw $18 into the pot earlier today. might upgrade depending on my financials closer to the end date.

#25 Posted by Kirbydunker85 (12 posts) -

Check out Path of Exile, I reviewed my initial impressions on the game in a blog post that you can find in my blogs section.

#26 Edited by nori (17 posts) -

@Kirbydunker85 said:

Check out Path of Exile, I reviewed my initial impressions on the game in a blog post that you can find in my blogs section.

I've been playing PoE off and on and I think that GGG is doing a great job.

#27 Edited by ICryCauseImEmo (522 posts) -

@nori said:

@Kirbydunker85 said:

Check out Path of Exile, I reviewed my initial impressions on the game in a blog post that you can find in my blogs section.

I've been playing PoE off and on and I think that GGG is doing a great job.

I definitely thought their currency idea was rather interesting hard to grasp but interesting at that. Plus their whole skill gem sockets was neat.

#28 Edited by raiz265 (2232 posts) -

@ICryCauseImEmo said:

@nori said:

@Kirbydunker85 said:

Check out Path of Exile, I reviewed my initial impressions on the game in a blog post that you can find in my blogs section.

I've been playing PoE off and on and I think that GGG is doing a great job.

I definitely thought their currency idea was rather interesting hard to grasp but interesting at that. Plus their whole skill gem sockets was neat.

The currency system does more harm than good though, same with the passive skill tree.

Your inventory just gets cluttered with all kinds of gems, scraps and scrolls lateron... As for the passive skills, it's just a little too much imho. The concept is great and I really like the active skill system, but that passive tree is just freaking overwhelming.

It's a good game, but just not right for me I guess.

Titan Quest still has the best skill/class system I think, I absolutely loved it when I first bought the game and I still do to this day. I really need to find someone I know that owns a CC so I can back this project.

#29 Posted by ICryCauseImEmo (522 posts) -

@raiz265 said:

@ICryCauseImEmo said:

@nori said:

@Kirbydunker85 said:

Check out Path of Exile, I reviewed my initial impressions on the game in a blog post that you can find in my blogs section.

I've been playing PoE off and on and I think that GGG is doing a great job.

I definitely thought their currency idea was rather interesting hard to grasp but interesting at that. Plus their whole skill gem sockets was neat.

The currency system does more harm than good though, same with the passive skill tree.

Your inventory just gets cluttered with all kinds of gems, scraps and scrolls lateron... As for the passive skills, it's just a little too much imho. The concept is great and I really like the active skill system, but that passive tree is just freaking overwhelming.

It's a good game, but just not right for me I guess.

Titan Quest still has the best skill/class system I think, I absolutely loved it when I first bought the game and I still do to this day. I really need to find someone I know that owns a CC so I can back this project.

Absolutely. When I was in closed beta for PoE I was so excited to start playing. However when I realized I sold an item for 10 scrolls that form 15 gems that form 8 icons which in then turn into 2 orbs I literary thought to myself do I need to Google wtf this all means?

On top of the currency the skill tree just only added passives which I for one enjoy passives. I know a lot of people argue 1% doesn't feel like much but for me I rather enjoy stuff like that. However it's the skill socketing that was a cool concept but also just seemed flawed. Plus having to swap out gems with new gear became tedious and hoping that new peace of gear had the blue/green/red socket.

I mainly loved Titan Quest for it's skill trees. The fact you could take two classes and combine them was just mind blowing to me at the time. I personally hate now how games have a "dual" class option but I feel the way these guys do it is just exactly perfect. Plus with what seems like more exciting combat and story progression / factions etc. I'm just so pumped for this game and really hope the word gets out to more and more people who are just looking for something different then the "Diablo 3" power house.

#30 Posted by SomeDeliCook (2071 posts) -

I should start a kickstarter fund that allows me to fund kickstarters.

#31 Posted by ICryCauseImEmo (522 posts) -

@SomeDeliCook said:

I should start a kickstarter fund that allows me to fund kickstarters.

I see no reason why not :)

#32 Posted by Grimluck343 (1132 posts) -

I wonder how long people will keep asking for hundreds of thousands of dollars on Kickstarter before the well just completely dries up.

#33 Posted by ICryCauseImEmo (522 posts) -

@Grimluck343 said:

I wonder how long people will keep asking for hundreds of thousands of dollars on Kickstarter before the well just completely dries up.

I suppose for as long as it's successful. I see no real downfall considering it's just like pre-ordering a game only your funds help develop the game.

#34 Posted by demonbear (1860 posts) -

I backed it as well!

#35 Posted by ICryCauseImEmo (522 posts) -

These guys are at 57% funded with 25 days left to go. Some new updates out etc.

#36 Posted by AdMordem (451 posts) -

I backed em for special digital blah blah edition. I want the skinny on the behind the scenes stuff with The Crate Story that's included.

#37 Posted by AhmadMetallic (18955 posts) -
@Scrawnto said:

I really liked Titan's Quest, even if I didn't play a whole lot of it. I'll probably support this. Nonlinear progression, destructable structures, NPC factions to ally with, and the awesome skill progression from Titan's Quest that lets you mix and match classes should make for a pretty awesome game.

@nori said:

Been following Grim Dawn for awhile and actually suggested a KS project on their forums. At first medierra (lead designer) didn't want to as he thought they couldn't raise enough funds to make a difference in design (hiring full time people is expensive), but after a lot of community support and a few high profile KS games it looks like they decided to launch this. I couldn't be more thrilled as I would love to see this project come to fruition. Titan Quest was a great game that was really underappreciated and Grim Dawn looks to take that game and make it loads better (plus a steampunkish setting is awesome).

This game will be awesome!

You just sold me on it! 18 dalla pledged.
#38 Posted by ICryCauseImEmo (522 posts) -

@AhmadMetallic said:

@Scrawnto said:

I really liked Titan's Quest, even if I didn't play a whole lot of it. I'll probably support this. Nonlinear progression, destructable structures, NPC factions to ally with, and the awesome skill progression from Titan's Quest that lets you mix and match classes should make for a pretty awesome game.

@nori said:

Been following Grim Dawn for awhile and actually suggested a KS project on their forums. At first medierra (lead designer) didn't want to as he thought they couldn't raise enough funds to make a difference in design (hiring full time people is expensive), but after a lot of community support and a few high profile KS games it looks like they decided to launch this. I couldn't be more thrilled as I would love to see this project come to fruition. Titan Quest was a great game that was really underappreciated and Grim Dawn looks to take that game and make it loads better (plus a steampunkish setting is awesome).

This game will be awesome!

You just sold me on it! 18 dalla pledged.

That's great. It's ashamed Titan Quest was truly under rated. At that it wasn't anything amazing but that's also because they couldn't continue to support their expansion due to publisher etc.

#39 Posted by tactis (351 posts) -

I put in $18, its cool that they have some footage to show, it looks pretty good.

#40 Posted by ICryCauseImEmo (522 posts) -

@tactis said:

I put in $18, its cool that they have some footage to show, it looks pretty good.

Yeah they have more on their site, but I think they said within the next weeks probably something this week, they will be putting out some more beefy stuff to show.

#41 Posted by tactis (351 posts) -

@tactis said:

I put in $18, its cool that they have some footage to show, it looks pretty good.

Yeah they have more on their site, but I think they said within the next weeks probably something this week, they will be putting out some more beefy stuff to show.

Oh cool, I did not know that. Having footage and screenshots convinced me to chip in my money because the developers aren't known quantities like Tim Schafer.

#42 Posted by matthias2437 (985 posts) -

This looks pretty good. I'll throw some cash at it, haven't supported a kickstarter in about 3 weeks so I guess I'm due.

#43 Posted by ICryCauseImEmo (522 posts) -

@matthias2437 said:

This looks pretty good. I'll throw some cash at it, haven't supported a kickstarter in about 3 weeks so I guess I'm due.

That's great thanks! Really want to see this thing funded. I don't think it will have any issues but I'd love to see it get passed it's funding goal.

#44 Posted by ICryCauseImEmo (522 posts) -

These guys are almost at 190k (280k goal). With 22 days left. They've added a bunch of new pledges that will give you a second copy of the game for people who want to play with loved ones or friends!

#45 Posted by gamefreak9 (2327 posts) -

I predict this game will be ridiculously imbalanced! Its commendable that its two guys... but no Indie RPG has ever been balanced... Its funny that people want an "action" rpg but then want intricate leveling systems... because it can't be done well... unless your a massive team... You just can't make a game actiony AND deep... I mean I thought Kingdoms of Amalur didn't do terribly at that... but its like one of the FEW.

#46 Posted by ICryCauseImEmo (522 posts) -

@gamefreak9 said:

I predict this game will be ridiculously imbalanced! Its commendable that its two guys... but no Indie RPG has ever been balanced... Its funny that people want an "action" rpg but then want intricate leveling systems... because it can't be done well... unless your a massive team... You just can't make a game actiony AND deep... I mean I thought Kingdoms of Amalur didn't do terribly at that... but its like one of the FEW.

imbalanced in terms of what? Kingdoms of Amalur is a completely different game style, and not to mention an extremely boring game where you got so powerful you just spammed buttons. It was dull.

Don't take this at all as an insult, just curious can you explain how you feel it's imbalanced a little more?

#47 Posted by gamefreak9 (2327 posts) -

@ICryCauseImEmo said:

@gamefreak9 said:

I predict this game will be ridiculously imbalanced! Its commendable that its two guys... but no Indie RPG has ever been balanced... Its funny that people want an "action" rpg but then want intricate leveling systems... because it can't be done well... unless your a massive team... You just can't make a game actiony AND deep... I mean I thought Kingdoms of Amalur didn't do terribly at that... but its like one of the FEW.

imbalanced in terms of what? Kingdoms of Amalur is a completely different game style, and not to mention an extremely boring game where you got so powerful you just spammed buttons. It was dull.

Don't take this at all as an insult, just curious can you explain how you feel it's imbalanced a little more?

why would I be insulted? Actually the reason why Kingdoms of Amalur pulled off balance is because all classes were OP so you could feel super powerful no matter what you did... which means you had REAL choice. Imbalance to me means that not all builds are (approximately) equal. So what your seeing as "choice" is actually just a huge puzzle to solve and optimize to find out which build is really the best. In Neverwinternights 2 launch, the first couple of days you saw all sorts of classes and mixes online... but after like 2 weeks people figured out which class combos and skills mixed best and only did those... so although there were like... over 10 classes and you could mix 3 or 4 of them into one character... it really just winded up to finding the 2-3 builds that were viable.... and since online mods were optimized to be of good difficulty, you could literally only play those if you played one of the few builds... I imagine Grim Dawn won't have online but that just means the Imbalance won't be as obvious.

Point is the only way you have real choice in RPG's is either if balance is perfect or the game is too easy. Since they are trying to make this game for hardcore rpg fans, it probably won't be easy... so it will be imbalanced.

#48 Edited by ICryCauseImEmo (522 posts) -

@gamefreak9 said:

@ICryCauseImEmo said:

@gamefreak9 said:

I predict this game will be ridiculously imbalanced! Its commendable that its two guys... but no Indie RPG has ever been balanced... Its funny that people want an "action" rpg but then want intricate leveling systems... because it can't be done well... unless your a massive team... You just can't make a game actiony AND deep... I mean I thought Kingdoms of Amalur didn't do terribly at that... but its like one of the FEW.

imbalanced in terms of what? Kingdoms of Amalur is a completely different game style, and not to mention an extremely boring game where you got so powerful you just spammed buttons. It was dull.

Don't take this at all as an insult, just curious can you explain how you feel it's imbalanced a little more?

why would I be insulted? Actually the reason why Kingdoms of Amalur pulled off balance is because all classes were OP so you could feel super powerful no matter what you did... which means you had REAL choice. Imbalance to me means that not all builds are (approximately) equal. So what your seeing as "choice" is actually just a huge puzzle to solve and optimize to find out which build is really the best. In Neverwinternights 2 launch, the first couple of days you saw all sorts of classes and mixes online... but after like 2 weeks people figured out which class combos and skills mixed best and only did those... so although there were like... over 10 classes and you could mix 3 or 4 of them into one character... it really just winded up to finding the 2-3 builds that were viable.... and since online mods were optimized to be of good difficulty, you could literally only play those if you played one of the few builds... I imagine Grim Dawn won't have online but that just means the Imbalance won't be as obvious.

Point is the only way you have real choice in RPG's is either if balance is perfect or the game is too easy. Since they are trying to make this game for hardcore rpg fans, it probably won't be easy... so it will be imbalanced.

That certainly clears things up for me. I can't really speak much truth about it, but I think the best way to start would be Titan Quest. I'm not sure if you ever played it however there were maybe 8 or 9 classes? At level 10 you chose a second which tree to go into. Ultimately having 6 trees to branch off into. The thing with Titan Quest was the amount of combinations, yes there where some classes more powerful than others but the gear really helped make that possible. I highly doubt it will be anything like Amalur considering as I stated before that game was just way to easy to begin with and the whole point of the game was to feel like a bad ass.

There will most likely be multiplayer along the same lines as what Titan Quest had considering they are using the same engine with revisions they've made. Also while only being 2 guys they've worked with the engine and style of game for close to 6-8 years, so i'm sure they can balance it into something tolerable. Perfect most likely not, considering almost zero games have perfect balance these days because everyone wants to feel like a god. Also in Titan Quest they stated the game was to easy they where forced to dumb down the difficulty in Grim Dawn that wont happen or at least they state it will be much more of a rewarding hard experience. Added with the fact there will be cool downs on potions unlike in the first one where you could down unlimited potions.

Everyone has their own opinion and I guess we'll have to wait and see how things play out, the multiplayer will certainly not be something crazy however will add some spice to the game for those willing to play with friends. Id imagine the optimized builds will come out eventually once people start to test and look for them, however it depends on your play style if you are actively looking for the uber class or experimenting yourself.

EDIT: Their website holds a vault of knowledge on all these subjects, that's the beauty of Indies they actually listen ask question and get feed back.

http://www.grimdawn.com/

#49 Posted by gamefreak9 (2327 posts) -

@ICryCauseImEmo said:

@gamefreak9 said:

@ICryCauseImEmo said:

@gamefreak9 said:

I predict this game will be ridiculously imbalanced! Its commendable that its two guys... but no Indie RPG has ever been balanced... Its funny that people want an "action" rpg but then want intricate leveling systems... because it can't be done well... unless your a massive team... You just can't make a game actiony AND deep... I mean I thought Kingdoms of Amalur didn't do terribly at that... but its like one of the FEW.

imbalanced in terms of what? Kingdoms of Amalur is a completely different game style, and not to mention an extremely boring game where you got so powerful you just spammed buttons. It was dull.

Don't take this at all as an insult, just curious can you explain how you feel it's imbalanced a little more?

why would I be insulted? Actually the reason why Kingdoms of Amalur pulled off balance is because all classes were OP so you could feel super powerful no matter what you did... which means you had REAL choice. Imbalance to me means that not all builds are (approximately) equal. So what your seeing as "choice" is actually just a huge puzzle to solve and optimize to find out which build is really the best. In Neverwinternights 2 launch, the first couple of days you saw all sorts of classes and mixes online... but after like 2 weeks people figured out which class combos and skills mixed best and only did those... so although there were like... over 10 classes and you could mix 3 or 4 of them into one character... it really just winded up to finding the 2-3 builds that were viable.... and since online mods were optimized to be of good difficulty, you could literally only play those if you played one of the few builds... I imagine Grim Dawn won't have online but that just means the Imbalance won't be as obvious.

Point is the only way you have real choice in RPG's is either if balance is perfect or the game is too easy. Since they are trying to make this game for hardcore rpg fans, it probably won't be easy... so it will be imbalanced.

That certainly clears things up for me. I can't really speak much truth about it, but I think the best way to start would be Titan Quest. I'm not sure if you ever played it however there were maybe 8 or 9 classes? At level 10 you chose a second which tree to go into. Ultimately having 6 trees to branch off into. The thing with Titan Quest was the amount of combinations, yes there where some classes more powerful than others but the gear really helped make that possible. I highly doubt it will be anything like Amalur considering as I stated before that game was just way to easy to begin with and the whole point of the game was to feel like a bad ass.

There will most likely be multiplayer along the same lines as what Titan Quest had considering they are using the same engine with revisions they've made. Also while only being 2 guys they've worked with the engine and style of game for close to 6-8 years, so i'm sure they can balance it into something tolerable. Perfect most likely not, considering almost zero games have perfect balance these days because everyone wants to feel like a god. Also in Titan Quest they stated the game was to easy they where forced to dumb down the difficulty in Grim Dawn that wont happen or at least they state it will be much more of a rewarding hard experience. Added with the fact there will be cool downs on potions unlike in the first one where you could down unlimited potions.

Everyone has their own opinion and I guess we'll have to wait and see how things play out, the multiplayer will certainly not be something crazy however will add some spice to the game for those willing to play with friends. Id imagine the optimized builds will come out eventually once people start to test and look for them, however it depends on your play style if you are actively looking for the uber class or experimenting yourself.

EDIT: Their website holds a vault of knowledge on all these subjects, that's the beauty of Indies they actually listen ask question and get feed back.

http://www.grimdawn.com/

I absolutely love experimenting but when I have to spend like 30 hours on a game just to have 1 experiment that kind of ruins my love for it. Which is why I love the way D3 is made... you can truly experiment all you want at no penalty... in fact the more levels u get, the more to experiment with. In other RPGS your route is usually decided in the first 10 levels and if you deviate your character won't be very good.

I did play Titan quest... I did not like it... actually I found my build useless... I was only spending points on the tree to get to the high level spells as to not waste any point and ruin the build only to find out the build sucked... I think I was level 25 ish? too late to restart. The lighitning tree was absolutely terrible... also... it SEEMS like you have alot of choice but its just plain irrational to not have builds that use your existing attributes to the fullest. For instance if your going a build that has Intelligence as a primary attribute and boosts, it then you obviously want to branch off into another tree that ALSO uses intelligence, you could sacrifice damage for a little bit of survival capability sure... but either way that game was terribly imbalanced. Anyway's Grim Dawn sounds better, I will probably play it(if it gets acceptable ratings) i'm just saying, RPG's are not the way to go for Indy developers, especially if its action, the number crunching is MUCH harder... and most people can't even get the crunching right when it IS turn based... actually those people need better balancers... I don't understand how things work out as they do... the formula for end game DPS should be simple...

Also I think most RPG developers listen to their fans, I know Blizzard does... no other forums have such in depth Analysis from fans... actually more or less every update in D3 is a forum suggestion, its just that most fans don't spend time actually learning about why things were done the way they were and like to complain.

#50 Posted by ICryCauseImEmo (522 posts) -

@gamefreak9 said:

I absolutely love experimenting but when I have to spend like 30 hours on a game just to have 1 experiment that kind of ruins my love for it. Which is why I love the way D3 is made... you can truly experiment all you want at no penalty... in fact the more levels u get, the more to experiment with. In other RPGS your route is usually decided in the first 10 levels and if you deviate your character won't be very good.

I did play Titan quest... I did not like it... actually I found my build useless... I was only spending points on the tree to get to the high level spells as to not waste any point and ruin the build only to find out the build sucked... I think I was level 25 ish? too late to restart. The lighitning tree was absolutely terrible... also... it SEEMS like you have alot of choice but its just plain irrational to not have builds that use your existing attributes to the fullest. For instance if your going a build that has Intelligence as a primary attribute and boosts, it then you obviously want to branch off into another tree that ALSO uses intelligence, you could sacrifice damage for a little bit of survival capability sure... but either way that game was terribly imbalanced. Anyway's Grim Dawn sounds better, I will probably play it(if it gets acceptable ratings) i'm just saying, RPG's are not the way to go for Indy developers, especially if its action, the number crunching is MUCH harder... and most people can't even get the crunching right when it IS turn based... actually those people need better balancers... I don't understand how things work out as they do... the formula for end game DPS should be simple...

Also I think most RPG developers listen to their fans, I know Blizzard does... no other forums have such in depth Analysis from fans... actually more or less every update in D3 is a forum suggestion, its just that most fans don't spend time actually learning about why things were done the way they were and like to complain.

I understand what you mean, and I guess what it comes down to is ultimately it's just who's taste is different for them. For instance I completely disliked the way D3 is handled so far. Playing the closed beta was actually a pretty big turn off. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed almost everything about the game except for the console style UI, and the lack luster leveling. I understand their choice for going towards a more simplified leveling experience where you unlock X skill at Y level and customize that with gems but that style of leveling for me just isn't fulfilling. I like throwing 5 str or 5 dex into a character because even if it doesn't do a difference personally to me I feel like i've achieved something. Same goes for a skill tree, I enjoy seeing them grow from zero points to a huge tree of the skills that "I" choose to pick. Just like you said you may try Grim Dawn in the future i'm sure i'll still play D3 unless I decide to wait for Torchlight 2 but since this is my summer off until I go away to school again that's doubtful i'll probably break down at get both :) because I just love ARPGs in general.